Trickle Truth

[reboot]

You said you feel better than me. Unless you're God Almighty himself, how could you possibly know that?

[Bryanp]

Thanks for pointing this out Quantum Weapon. This is a very sad story. There seems really no point in posting on this thread anymore.

[reboot]

Spoken like a true narcissist.

[2sunny]

Oops... Sorry...

Edited December 29, 2011 by 2sunny

[2sunny]

It's quick and easy to eliminate a bed or sofa from your surroundings.

 

But what you really need to take a hard look at is the anger, resentment and fear behind the "things" you take it out on.

 

Let's start with your W. how about using words to tell her how you feel! Tell her what you expect! Ask IF she's even capable of being a decent person? Ask what action she's willing to take to prove her decency and love!

 

IF she can't/won't - you have nothing to work with!

 

Start with honesty... Talk... No more fits of rage!

[Kidd]

It's quick and easy to eliminate a bed or sofa from your surroundings.

 

But what you really need to take a hard look at is the anger, resentment and fear behind the "things" you take it out on.

 

Let's start with your W. how about using words to tell her how you feel! Tell her what you expect! Ask IF she's even capable of being a decent person? Ask what action she's willing to take to prove her decency and love!

 

IF she can't/won't - you have nothing to work with!

 

Start with honesty... Talk... No more fits of rage!

 

There is serious work to do on both parts. I hope you know that I don't disagree with your honesty arguments. You convinced me to talk honestly with mu wife about my own affair. As a result, I fessed up. I credit you for that. I'm not sure anyone expected it to result in my permission to finish the job. Mistake on my part to be sure.

 

All I'm saying is that I WILL be honest and straightforward with her about what I need now. She has hard work to do that I allowed her to bypass before. I've started writing my needs and boundaries. It won't be easy for her. I have a ridiculous amount of work to do myself. It's a tall order for both of us and I only hope that we both find it in us to do our part. I have a huge amount of determination to do mine regardless of the outcome. I don't have a clue about where she is. Get to wait two weeks before I get to hear her honesty or express my own.

 

I never get to rage again. Period. About anything. Alcohol is out of my life cor the foreseeable future. It's a catalyst that has to be eliminated.

 

As to my children, we've managed to avoid themknowing about this (even thru the incident the other night). I don't know what they've been told since. FIL won't accomodat conversation about even supervised visitatiion; I'm not pushing anything this soon. Still heartbreaking.

[2sunny]

That's good to hear and a good start!

 

When my exH used to raise his voice - I never heard his words - just his tone was too hurtful and distracting... There's no value in showing anger - just express how you feel in a natural tone.

[PinkInTheLimo]

But respect? Respect is the hardest to regain and with every trickle-truth, uttered to protect them at your emotional expense, they tarnish themselves....often forever.

 

Makes one wonder why BS stay with their cheater. Why stay in a relationship with someone you don't respect (and I get that loss of respect)? Could it possibly be that some BS have selfrespect issues?

[donnamaybe]

Makes one wonder why BS stay with their cheater. Why stay in a relationship with someone you don't respect (and I get that loss of respect)? Could it possibly be that some BS have selfrespect issues?

 

Some BS require that the cheater satisfy every requirement to regain trust and respect. I think the first action, albeit unasked by Spark, was the tossing under the bus of the AP.

[2long]

Makes one wonder why BS stay with their cheater. Why stay in a relationship with someone you don't respect (and I get that loss of respect)? Could it possibly be that some BS have selfrespect issues?

 

I don't think it's this simple. like I said 2 he-who-shall-not-be-named, I have plenty of self-respect. I don't derive who I am and how valuable a person I am from anyone, including my FWW.

 

I wouldn't want recovery with someone I had 2 coerce in2 telling me the truth "or else." Far more valuable 2 me is that she chose 2 end contact because it was the right thing 2 do and she realized that on her own.

 

I've said many times before that it's quite easy for someone who wants to hide a secret second life to do so, in this digital age. A liar who's been scared in2 telling the truth without really wanting 2 end the secrecy will find a way 2 continue keeping secrets.

 

A FBS needs 2 be emotionally healthy for themselves, not just their family, regardless of what their loved ones decide 2 do.

 

-ol' 2long

Edited December 30, 2011 by 2long
forgot a "don't"

[Spark1111]

I have plenty of self-respect. I've lived an honorable life filled with love, achievements both personally and professionally, and no regrets.

 

I love the man and respect him as a father, friend, lover, provider, son and brother.

 

The respect I loss was in his fear of sharing the complete truth when he was begging to reconcile. It was self-protective and wrong and cowardly and misguided because "he didn't want to lose me." But it made me realize how cowardly all his actions were during and after his affair, not just to me but to his OW too and I told him so.

 

It showed a lack of understanding that the betrayal was in the act, not in the telling of it. That was self-serving on his part, and while he thought it was to protect my feelings, it was the worst thing he could have done. I almost left him over TTing.

 

It was the flash of realization that he may not be a strong enough man for me to chance reconciliation and a future with.

 

Kidd is feeling some of the same right now and I give him kudos that he still knows his heart and wants to reconcile with his fWW.

[Kidd]

I have plenty of self-respect. I've lived an honorable life filled with love, achievements both personally and professionally, and no regrets.

 

I love the man and respect him as a father, friend, lover, provider, son and brother.

 

The respect I loss was in his fear of sharing the complete truth when he was begging to reconcile. It was self-protective and wrong and cowardly and misguided because "he didn't want to lose me." But it made me realize how cowardly all his actions were during and after his affair, not just to me but to his OW too and I told him so.

 

It showed a lack of understanding that the betrayal was in the act, not in the telling of it. That was self-serving on his part, and while he thought it was to protect my feelings, it was the worst thing he could have done. I almost left him over TTing.

 

It was the flash of realization that he may not be a strong enough man for me to chance reconciliation and a future with.

 

Kidd is feeling some of the same right now and I give him kudos that he still knows his heart and wants to reconcile with his fWW.

 

Spark, your posts are really stunning. I feel I have a PhD in this business and my education grows as I find others that are just further ahead in the process than I. Anyway, I just want you to know how much I identify with what you write.

 

I feel good about how I am going to proceed. I certainly want to see if she gets it after this. I think she did get it that night and then I screwed it up. I have to wait about another 11 days to find out. Those that have spoken with her don't get the impression that "she's done" at all and just as emotionally shaken as I.

 

I got to see the kids today. First I've seen them since Christmas night. 2 hours. We went bowling. Had a very tough talk with my 9 year old son. When my 5 year old daughter heard me discussing when I "move back in," she asked if mommy and I were separating. My heart broke.

 

But we will both do the right thing. I've made my mistakes and I'm done with them. I will be making a ridiculous number of consecutive correct decisions. Besides the last 8 months, I've been good at that my whole life. If she can't do it, I'll walk and be proud of what I've done. I don't think my self-respect has been more intact than it is now.

[Steadfast]

Spark, your posts are really stunning.

 

Wholeheartedly agree. And not just because her views on infidelity harmonize with mine. I don't know her. I do know by her words she's clearly seeking the truth in an honorable way and understands the folly of trying to 'wish' happiness into a relationship. From what I've read, that's where you are Kidd. Spark is setting a good example; strength and vision.

 

What's happened has happened. For what it's worth I like your show of passion, but understand now and remember forever that our rights as husbands, fathers and men end where our wives begin. No matter what, never lay hands on a woman. Real men draw that line and never cross it.

 

From this point on, determine exactly what kind of life you want, and want to live. Can you put what she's done behind you while factoring in her imperfections? Can you overcome your own guilt? Do you truly, sincerely love her, or is your fear of the unknown stronger than your desire for happiness? We must fix ourselves before rebuilding a troubled marriage.

 

My dearest mentor always says: 'Make the next right.' Take that advice.

[Kidd]

Glad to see LS back up and running.

 

Been killing time over the last few days. No drama to speak of other than continued no contact with my W or the kids. Another week to go before my first hearing. Hoping the W will support lifting the injunction and other no contact order so that we can talk.

[Owl]

Glad to see LS back up and running.

 

Been killing time over the last few days. No drama to speak of other than continued no contact with my W or the kids. Another week to go before my first hearing. Hoping the W will support lifting the injunction and other no contact order so that we can talk.

 

So...what's your PLAN of action if she does this?

 

What's your PLAN to address the hurt and pain you've both caused each other? What's your PLAN to deal with the shattered trust on both sides? What's your PLAN to try to rebuild the damaged relationships all the way around at this point?

 

And...what's your PLAN if she opts not to do this?

[Kidd]

So...what's your PLAN of action if she does this?

 

What's your PLAN to address the hurt and pain you've both caused each other? What's your PLAN to deal with the shattered trust on both sides? What's your PLAN to try to rebuild the damaged relationships all the way around at this point?

 

And...what's your PLAN if she opts not to do this?

 

I can only do what I can do at this point. My primary goal right now is just to create as safe an environment for her as possible. Alcohol was a catalyst that has to be removed. I lost control and that can't ever happen again, period. I am looking into alcohol classes. Anger management as well. I'm sure the court will order these, too. I will defer from seeing my kids. I will apologize profusely. It will be a hard road. I have no regrets choosing it.

 

As for my W, there will be requirements if she wants to reconcile with me, too. Where I permitted avoidance in the past, I'll need full disclosure, openness and honesty to whatever extent I ask. I need a timeline, transparency, and consistent actions over time. I know how to make this work. I tried to take an easier route as she desired. It didn't work. Now it has to be the path through it, not around it. I believe she'll do it. If she can't or won't, divorce is the only choice. I can't stay vulnerable.

[Kidd]

I've also stepped up my counseling and resumed my meds.

 

I will say that ahe told my brother that she undertand that this will take a lot longer than she originally thought. That tells me he's not done.

[frozensprouts]

it does take a long time to recover from infidelity, if , in fact, your marriage ever does.

 

I remember wanting so desperately for things to be better that i was almost tempted to ignore my feelings and just allow things to go back to the status quo, but I didn't. I'd start to feel better and something ,often insignificant would remind me of how bad things had been and that I never wanted them to be that way again.

 

The two of us have really worked hard to make things better, and I feel that we have, but I won't pretend that there's not times when I still feel really sad about what happened, and fear that it could happen again. But I don't think that it's really a fear that my husband will cheat again, but rather I am a heck of a lot less naive than I was before he had an affair...

 

I hope you are looking after yourself through all of this. While I don't agree at all with you putting your hands on your wife ( sorry if I have misunderstood about that) , I can understand the anger...she hurt you and betrayed your trust and wasn't honest with you and even brought him to your house- your own personal space. This would make me furious, so I can understand how angry you mus have felt. That being said, are you finding ways to channel your anger into things that are useful to you, that will help you grow and become an better person( kind of like taking lemons, the lemons being the situation, not you:laugh: and making some great lemonade)?

 

Sometimes the best you can do is just keep putting one foot in front of the other making the best decisions you can given the knowledge you have at the time.

best of luck to you, and i hope the new year brings you peace in your life

[Kidd]

it does take a long time to recover from infidelity, if , in fact, your marriage ever does.

 

I remember wanting so desperately for things to be better that i was almost tempted to ignore my feelings and just allow things to go back to the status quo, but I didn't. I'd start to feel better and something ,often insignificant would remind me of how bad things had been and that I never wanted them to be that way again.

 

The two of us have really worked hard to make things better, and I feel that we have, but I won't pretend that there's not times when I still feel really sad about what happened, and fear that it could happen again. But I don't think that it's really a fear that my husband will cheat again, but rather I am a heck of a lot less naive than I was before he had an affair...

 

I hope you are looking after yourself through all of this. While I don't agree at all with you putting your hands on your wife ( sorry if I have misunderstood about that) , I can understand the anger...she hurt you and betrayed your trust and wasn't honest with you and even brought him to your house- your own personal space. This would make me furious, so I can understand how angry you mus have felt. That being said, are you finding ways to channel your anger into things that are useful to you, that will help you grow and become an better person( kind of like taking lemons, the lemons being the situation, not you:laugh: and making some great lemonade)?

 

Sometimes the best you can do is just keep putting one foot in front of the other making the best decisions you can given the knowledge you have at the time.

best of luck to you, and i hope the new year brings you peace in your life

 

Thanks for the kind wishes, Frozen. You have a good heart.

 

To clarify, yes, I did pick her up by the waist and threw her out the front door. She wouldn't leave and my alcohol-induced rage took over. It is an absolute embarrasment at minimum and very possibly a deal-breaker for my W. I can only hope that she looks at our previous 18 years together to see what a true abberation that was for me.

 

What to do with the anger? Hmm. Well, I won't be drinking. Beyond that, I can say I haven't experienced any anger since it happened. When it returns, I'm counting on my sober judgment to be better. My counselor says I need a plan b to replace the drinking that was plan a. Not sure what that is yet. Phone calls to friends and family is all I've got. I'm sure we'll discuss it more in tomorrow's session.

[2sunny]

I can only do what I can do at this point. My primary goal right now is just to create as safe an environment for her as possible. Alcohol was a catalyst that has to be removed. I lost control and that can't ever happen again, period. I am looking into alcohol classes. Anger management as well. I'm sure the court will order these, too. I will defer from seeing my kids. I will apologize profusely. It will be a hard road. I have no regrets choosing it.

 

As for my W, there will be requirements if she wants to reconcile with me, too. Where I permitted avoidance in the past, I'll need full disclosure, openness and honesty to whatever extent I ask. I need a timeline, transparency, and consistent actions over time. I know how to make this work. I tried to take an easier route as she desired. It didn't work. Now it has to be the path through it, not around it. I believe she'll do it. If she can't or won't, divorce is the only choice. I can't stay vulnerable.

This looks a lot like your plan is dependent on what SHE is or isn't going to do.

 

While I agree you need to stick to a firm, healthy boundary - it shouldn't be about her. This IS about YOU.

[Kidd]

Seeing the kids for the 2nd time tonight.

 

Wife wants it supervised so my neighbor will go with us to the library to do homework and then dinner. Pretty humiliating. Doesn't feel like R. It actually kinda sucks.

 

My plan for R is certainly dependent upon her being interested in R. It takes both, of course. So in that way, yes, my plans are dependent upon her. If she does want R, we'll both have requirements. If we can't agree, D it is. Not what I want but I won't be a doormat any longer.

[frozensprouts]

Seeing the kids for the 2nd time tonight.

 

Wife wants it supervised so my neighbor will go with us to the library to do homework and then dinner. Pretty humiliating. Doesn't feel like R. It actually kinda sucks.

 

My plan for R is certainly dependent upon her being interested in R. It takes both, of course. So in that way, yes, my plans are dependent upon her. If she does want R, we'll both have requirements. If we can't agree, D it is. Not what I want but I won't be a doormat any longer.

 

good for you!

 

your story reminds me a bit of a friend of mine who's wife left him and their three kids to go live with her new "guy'.

He still loves her so much, and desperately wants her to come home, and he's willing to do pretty much anything for that to happen. it's hurting his kids, and sometimes i want to just shake him and tell him to smarten up, but I can understand where he is coming from.

 

maybe your best path is to do whatever it is that is best for your kids.

best of luck to you:)

[Kidd]

good for you!

 

your story reminds me a bit of a friend of mine who's wife left him and their three kids to go live with her new "guy'.

He still loves her so much, and desperately wants her to come home, and he's willing to do pretty much anything for that to happen. it's hurting his kids, and sometimes i want to just shake him and tell him to smarten up, but I can understand where he is coming from.

 

maybe your best path is to do whatever it is that is best for your kids.

best of luck to you:)

 

It was rough. Only an hour this time. My 9 yo son was very reserved. He is very adult and undertstands all too well what is going on. My 5 yo daughter must have asked me to come home tonight 5 times. Broke my heart to send them off (again).

 

My W has got to change because it is seriously hurting the children. She needs to let me come home so we can work in it. Right now she's not comfotable with me seeing the children unsupervised. As if they ever did anything to me. It's irrational.

[goldengirl86]

I was reading this thread and it struck acord with me. I think you at one point mention how in 20 years if you both reconciled and recovered you both could look back on this with pride and say we made it through, in 20 years times you will look back on this with shame regardless of whether you are still with your wife or not. There is nothing to be proud of from your conduct or hers. Sometimes our emotions get the best of us and we make terrible choices, we act errationally and lose our control. You cannot blame the alcohol, if a drunk drivers kills someone they are punished we dont blame the A we blame the driver.

 

People are like sponges we obsorb all the good and all the bad, the good sometimes gets us through the bad, but the bad never leaves us it becomes apart of us. When someone hurts us we never forget, some can move on and forgive some can not.

 

when you discovered your wifes affair i believe you had a revenge affair i may be mistaken. This now makes you just as bad as her, and i dont see how you can now hold her to higher esteem. The moment you retaliated you lost the victim status, it should just have been left at that. However, it was not you then went and physically assulted her, I am assuming your children saw this.

 

When your children get older what is your relationship going to teach them, that it is ok to cheat on your spouse, its ok to hurt the people you love and it is ok to be hurt by the people we love, because they love us so therefore it is alright for them to hurt us.

 

You may never do that to your wife again, or you may, knowone can be sure, but be sure of one thing niether you nor her will ever forget and will carry all this hurt around with the both of you until it weighs you down and breaks you. The defining moment of your relationship will be once the dust settles and you both look at one another and realise that you were holding on to tight and when you hold on too tightly to something you destroy it.

 

Sometimes it is not the staying that makes you strong, but the letting go!

However, good luck and i hope it works out for you and her and especially your children.

[Kidd]

I was reading this thread and it struck acord with me. I think you at one point mention how in 20 years if you both reconciled and recovered you both could look back on this with pride and say we made it through, in 20 years times you will look back on this with shame regardless of whether you are still with your wife or not. There is nothing to be proud of from your conduct or hers. Sometimes our emotions get the best of us and we make terrible choices, we act errationally and lose our control. You cannot blame the alcohol, if a drunk drivers kills someone they are punished we dont blame the A we blame the driver.

 

People are like sponges we obsorb all the good and all the bad, the good sometimes gets us through the bad, but the bad never leaves us it becomes apart of us. When someone hurts us we never forget, some can move on and forgive some can not.

 

when you discovered your wifes affair i believe you had a revenge affair i may be mistaken. This now makes you just as bad as her, and i dont see how you can now hold her to higher esteem. The moment you retaliated you lost the victim status, it should just have been left at that. However, it was not you then went and physically assulted her, I am assuming your children saw this.

 

When your children get older what is your relationship going to teach them, that it is ok to cheat on your spouse, its ok to hurt the people you love and it is ok to be hurt by the people we love, because they love us so therefore it is alright for them to hurt us.

 

You may never do that to your wife again, or you may, knowone can be sure, but be sure of one thing niether you nor her will ever forget and will carry all this hurt around with the both of you until it weighs you down and breaks you. The defining moment of your relationship will be once the dust settles and you both look at one another and realise that you were holding on to tight and when you hold on too tightly to something you destroy it.

 

Sometimes it is not the staying that makes you strong, but the letting go!

However, good luck and i hope it works out for you and her and especially your children.

 

A very sobering opinion.