Trickle Truth

[heartinlove]

HI Kidd,

 

Im sorry to see the turn of events in your life. I was rooting for you and your marriage.

 

I imagine your wife is a bit scared of you right now and wonders to what depths your anger will allow you to go. The events you described having a revenge affair, physically throwing her out, actually burning a couch are scary because their only intent is to cause harm.

 

I completely understand that she caused unfathomable pain to you with her choice to have an affair, but my sense from all of your posts is that she got caught up inside her choice, rationalized it, and probably thought you would never find out. It wasnt her intent to harm you, even though that is what happened. There is a big difference to me in that. Even inside her not telling you all the gory details, her intent is to minimize pain. Right or wrong, and im not saying its right, im just saying that is probably how she is thinking.

 

Now your actions have the intent to harm. That is what is probably scaring her the most. She is probably wondering what depths you feel entitled to go to get her back for what she did. That really is the question here. Can you forgive her or not? Truly. Not on a surface level but on a level of depth.

 

When you speak of you will do this your way or their will be divorce and you wont be a doormat, I hear a relentless drumbeat of anger. Yes the reconciliation needs to work for you, and you need to have conditions, but can you put that anger aside ever?

 

I remember in your last series of postings, alot of vitriol from posters in response, that fed this sense that all is fair game, because of what she did. But in real life, you cant repair a relationship from that place. You cant fight hurt by creating more hurt. You have to either rise above and forgive and find compassion for your wife's choices and move forward or else end your marriage and save yourself and your wife this pain. Her choice to have an affair doesn't entitle you to and endless rant and scary displays of anger.

 

At this point, it is your turn to also ask her for forgiveness. Given that she wants supervised visits with your children tells me she doesn't trust the volatility of your actions and she has every right not to. Its now also up to you to convince her, you are capable of getting beyond your anger, and its up to you to determine whether thats even possible given her choice to have an affair. I am still rooting for you and your marriage.

[Spark1111]

HI Kidd,

 

Im sorry to see the turn of events in your life. I was rooting for you and your marriage.

 

I imagine your wife is a bit scared of you right now and wonders to what depths your anger will allow you to go. The events you described having a revenge affair, physically throwing her out, actually burning a couch are scary because their only intent is to cause harm.

 

I completely understand that she caused unfathomable pain to you with her choice to have an affair, but my sense from all of your posts is that she got caught up inside her choice, rationalized it, and probably thought you would never find out. It wasnt her intent to harm you, even though that is what happened. There is a big difference to me in that. Even inside her not telling you all the gory details, her intent is to minimize pain. Right or wrong, and im not saying its right, im just saying that is probably how she is thinking.

 

Now your actions have the intent to harm. That is what is probably scaring her the most. She is probably wondering what depths you feel entitled to go to get her back for what she did. That really is the question here. Can you forgive her or not? Truly. Not on a surface level but on a level of depth.

 

When you speak of you will do this your way or their will be divorce and you wont be a doormat, I hear a relentless drumbeat of anger. Yes the reconciliation needs to work for you, and you need to have conditions, but can you put that anger aside ever?

 

I remember in your last series of postings, alot of vitriol from posters in response, that fed this sense that all is fair game, because of what she did. But in real life, you cant repair a relationship from that place. You cant fight hurt by creating more hurt. You have to either rise above and forgive and find compassion for your wife's choices and move forward or else end your marriage and save yourself and your wife this pain. Her choice to have an affair doesn't entitle you to and endless rant and scary displays of anger.

 

At this point, it is your turn to also ask her for forgiveness. Given that she wants supervised visits with your children tells me she doesn't trust the volatility of your actions and she has every right not to. Its now also up to you to convince her, you are capable of getting beyond your anger, and its up to you to determine whether thats even possible given her choice to have an affair. I am still rooting for you and your marriage.

 

Heartinlove, great post! Everything you write rings true!

 

The problem lies in our emotions catching up to our rational intellect. For me, who prides myself on my ability to learn and use that information to heal, it was very scary to feel so out of control.

 

Here is the hard part; YOU NEED the one person who has hurt you more than anyone on the planet, to help you heal from their actions in order to repair the marriage.

 

That is a tall order for someone who avoids conflict, has poor communication skills and low self-esteem.

 

But still, you wait and pray and hope that they find the courage to overcome themselves to stay calm, and patient, and reassuring, and TOTALLY transparent. You have given them this gift of reconciliation, your vulnerable heart on a silver platter, and so want them to be the better person.

 

Scary stuff. I've read that the handling of the aftermath of an affair is MORE important that the affair itself for those wanting to reconcile.

 

Of the rug sweepers and truth avoidant, 50% will make five years.

 

Of those who come clean with all the details wanted by the BS, 87% will make five years....if they want to...if they seek professional counseling, if they can restore trust.

 

Every TT is a nail in the marital coffin. Whether you intended to hurt me or not, you did. Now tell me the scope of what I am expected to forgive, in one shot, like ripping off the bandaid to allow the wound to heal.

 

TTing is torture.

[Kidd]

HI Kidd,

 

Im sorry to see the turn of events in your life. I was rooting for you and your marriage.

 

I imagine your wife is a bit scared of you right now and wonders to what depths your anger will allow you to go. The events you described having a revenge affair, physically throwing her out, actually burning a couch are scary because their only intent is to cause harm.

 

I completely understand that she caused unfathomable pain to you with her choice to have an affair, but my sense from all of your posts is that she got caught up inside her choice, rationalized it, and probably thought you would never find out. It wasnt her intent to harm you, even though that is what happened. There is a big difference to me in that. Even inside her not telling you all the gory details, her intent is to minimize pain. Right or wrong, and im not saying its right, im just saying that is probably how she is thinking.

 

Now your actions have the intent to harm. That is what is probably scaring her the most. She is probably wondering what depths you feel entitled to go to get her back for what she did. That really is the question here. Can you forgive her or not? Truly. Not on a surface level but on a level of depth.

 

When you speak of you will do this your way or their will be divorce and you wont be a doormat, I hear a relentless drumbeat of anger. Yes the reconciliation needs to work for you, and you need to have conditions, but can you put that anger aside ever?

 

I remember in your last series of postings, alot of vitriol from posters in response, that fed this sense that all is fair game, because of what she did. But in real life, you cant repair a relationship from that place. You cant fight hurt by creating more hurt. You have to either rise above and forgive and find compassion for your wife's choices and move forward or else end your marriage and save yourself and your wife this pain. Her choice to have an affair doesn't entitle you to and endless rant and scary displays of anger.

 

At this point, it is your turn to also ask her for forgiveness. Given that she wants supervised visits with your children tells me she doesn't trust the volatility of your actions and she has every right not to. Its now also up to you to convince her, you are capable of getting beyond your anger, and its up to you to determine whether thats even possible given her choice to have an affair. I am still rooting for you and your marriage.

 

Right on the money, as usual.

 

Short answer...yes, I can forgive her. Knowing that her intent has never been to inflict pain is important. I wasn't prepared for the TT. At all. Add alcohol. Damn.

 

I haven't been angry since the arrest. There have to be conditions regarding honesty but the anger has to go, period. My brother phrased it as a truce. That seems appropo to me. I have a big need to be forgiven, too. I have scared her. It will take a lot for that to be repaired. I have to completely change my mindset.

 

I, too, am still cheering for my M. Our attorneys talk tomorrow and I should finally have a clue what she wants.

[2sunny]

You say your W needs to do this or that.

 

No she doesn't.

 

You have shown evidence of violent behavior... It takes consistency over a LONG period of time to EARN trust.

 

Your sense of entitlement will work against you.

 

What is the assignment the counselor suggested? Are you doing the action suggested?

[Kidd]

You say your W needs to do this or that.

 

No she doesn't.

 

You have shown evidence of violent behavior... It takes consistency over a LONG period of time to EARN trust.

 

Your sense of entitlement will work against you.

 

What is the assignment the counselor suggested? Are you doing the action suggested?

 

She obviously doesn't "have" to do anything. And I certainly acknowledge that I will be doing the serious heavy-lifting for the foreseeable future to give her a safe environment. And that's IF I am given the chance. I will only say that trust has to be re-earned on both sides. I'm not looking to crucify her. I'm not even angry. I just want the truth. Then we have a foundation.

 

As for my counselor. He said I need a plan b to replace drinking as plan a. I'm certainly going to have emotional moments. I could only come up with a list of people to call. He supported that idea.

 

I also went to an AA mtg yesterday. I'm going to start an online anger management course tonight. I am trying.

[2sunny]

AA is great - get a sponsor and DO all the step work as quickly as possible.

 

That's the way it worked best for me. I hope I never stop doing my step work.

[Kidd]

W wants 3 month separation, barring me from the home, and contact only to discuss kids and finances.

 

At a loss. No idea how we recover without contact for another 3 months. Not sure I can even do it.

[Spark1111]

Yes. You can. You have too.

 

Now, concentrate on you! get to IC, get to the gym, get to friends and family you haven't seen in a while.

 

You have to work on you. It's your life, your future and if NOTHING else is sure, you will be in it.

 

You cannot control what she will do or decide after three months. You cannot be sure what you will want or decide in three months.

 

You can only control you and your growth and healing and happiness.

 

Start working on being the best man you can be, for you and your children and your future, with or without her.

 

This, you owe to yourself.

[heartinlove]

HI Kidd,

 

Sorry to hear that. Spark gave you great advice.

 

I imagine you're feeling pretty down right now. All you can do in this moment is take care of you and do the things you need to do to get you in a good frame of mind, like exercise, counseling and reaching out to friends.

 

Im sure 3 months seems really daunting and you don't know whats at the end of the three months and that uncertainty can eat you alive, so all you can do is focus on yourself, your healing and intend for the best outcome.

 

Sometimes when we are in the heat of all the emotions, taking time away from each other does create space for a deeper perspective. It gives each of you time to really take a deep breath and to find another way of seeing everything. It allows time to look at everything that has transpired more deeply without dealing with the day to day dynamics of your marriage and all the triggers.

 

The good news is if you both decide to continue your marriage after this separation, there will be the opportunity to most likely do it from a much healthier place. Don't be afraid of space. Sometimes space is a good thing for everyone. Stay focused on the positive and use this time well to take care of yourself.

 

Make sure you have ample time to be with your children during the separation. You don't need the added stress of not seeing your children. I would not allow her to continue supervised visitations in limited time periods. Everything you have written points to that you are a good father, so make sure you get to have time with your kids.

 

Im wishing the best for you that this time is a positive for both you and your wife.

[stopdropandroll]

Kidd, as tough as things are right now, consider the 3 months to be a great opportunity. Your wife could have dropped the divorce bomb on you but instead she gave you a structured timeframe for a separation. Use that time wisely to work on yourself. Deal with your issues and don't focus on what she's doing.

[Kidd]

All good replies. Doing my best to keep my head up but it was a depressing turn of events. Still processing it all.

 

She has dropped any requirement for supervised visitation. But I'm not likely to have room for them to stay overnights as I'm staying with friends. My access will be limited likely no matter what I do. It's very unfair and a hard pill to swallow. Still choking it down. One day at a time. Don't feel like I have many choices anyway.

[goldengirl86]

Sorry Kidd i can see how much you wanted things to go differently, i thought she would give you another chance, though she has not said No. I have seen people do worse and still get more chances, hang in there it will all work out the way it is suppose too.

[Kidd]

Sorry Kidd i can see how much you wanted things to go differently, i thought she would give you another chance, though she has not said No. I have seen people do worse and still get more chances, hang in there it will all work out the way it is suppose too.

 

Learning patience. Love my crazy wife and she loves me. Giving it time.

[standtall]

W wants 3 month separation, barring me from the home, and contact only to discuss kids and finances.

 

 

 

Steel yourself...hope and try for the best, and prepare for the worst.

[2long]

What am I missing here? She wants a 3 month separation. You don't. Was this a decision made by the courts? Have you satisfied whatever requirements you were supposed 2 meet by this 2 week RO?

 

What do you want? And when does what you want get discussed as a counter-offer?

 

-ol' 2long

[2sunny]

Trust is EARNED over a long period of time and being completely consistent with good interactions/actions/reactions.

 

Do the step work through AA to see how your participation affected yourself and others. Steps 4&5. Steps 6-9 should balance things out for you and give a TON of clarity - if you can be honest with yourself.

 

Get moving quickly - you have good work ahead of you! ;-)

[frozensprouts]

Maybe it would be good to try and ( as hard as it may be) put her out of your mind for the next three months and focus on making yourself the best person that you can be for yourself and your children.

 

also, the fact that you blew up and acted badly does not negate her behavior(cheating). What is SHE doing during this separation to make changes in her behavior patterns? This should not all be on you.

 

Good luck to you...it sounds like you are having a rough go right now, but it also sounds like you have recognized your problems and are willing to try and make changes...many never get to where you are they get mired in bad behavior patterns and sadness- you should be proud of yourself for trying to make yourself better

[2sunny]

Yep! IF you work on yourself and being the best YOU possible - you are likely to find a different outlook and perspective on everyone around you!

 

Whether SHE looks at the way SHE participates or not - will be beside the point.

 

Chop chop = work to do on YOU... ;-) it's ALL good!

[Kidd]

What am I missing here? She wants a 3 month separation. You don't. Was this a decision made by the courts? Have you satisfied whatever requirements you were supposed 2 meet by this 2 week RO?

 

What do you want? And when does what you want get discussed as a counter-offer?

 

-ol' 2long

 

My atty agreed to a continuance for another week without asking me. Thus, the temporary injunction remains in place. The 3 months is what she proposed for a settlement. I could accept it, negotiate, or fight it by having my day in court. Have no idea if this is a precursor to D or her initial requirements for R. Just putting my best foot forward. Playing phone tag with my atty. W continues to want visitation supervised. Hurts.

[Owl]

OK...demonstrating my lack of legal knowledge here.

 

The proposed seperation is a settlement for what?

 

The RO? I thought that most RO's are TRO's...with a set duration and specific limitations and boundaries. Your attorney agreed to the extension of the current agreement without your knowledge and consent...sounds to me like you need to set him straight, ASAP.

 

But as far as that goes...the RO will "expire" unless someone requests it to be extended or implemented for a longer duration...so I don't understand how the seperation would be a "settlement" for anything along those lines.

 

Usually, when I hear "settlement" that's talking about distrubution of assets as a result of a divorce...not sure what it means in the context you've listed here.

 

Before you agree to this "settlement"...why not have a sit down with your attorney and outline some changes that you feel that you want to make during this time to be documented in some fashion...and just as critically, why not also request that your wife make some specific changes that you require from her during this seperation period as well?

 

From my perspective...the both of you are equally culpable for the "state of affairs" (pun intended) at this point...you've both done serious damage to each other.

 

Use the chance to INSIST on changes she needs to make, and to make important changes in your own world as well.

[2long]

 

My atty agreed to a continuance for another week without asking me. Thus, the temporary injunction remains in place. The 3 months is what she proposed for a settlement. I could accept it, negotiate, or fight it by having my day in court. Have no idea if this is a precursor to D or her initial requirements for R. Just putting my best foot forward. Playing phone tag with my atty. W continues to want visitation supervised. Hurts.

 

I agree that this "settlement" doesn't seem 2 be addressing anything - just escalating the process of freeing you (and your wife and family) from your marital money.

 

What were you supposed 2 demonstrate by the end of the temporary injunction? Do that. And get back in2 your house as soon as legally possible... ...or stop paying for it, so you can get yourself a place where your kids can spend 50% of their time with you.

 

I clearly don't know all that's going on, though.

 

-ol' 2long

[drifter777]

Home from jail.

 

Got drunk last night. Got some more truth via text message. Came home. Burnt the couch in the backyard. Threw my wife out the front door when she refused to leave without the kids. Hello jail.

 

Court mandated no contact with the victim til my court date (two weeks). Found another place to stay. Guess I won't be seeing my kids.

 

Wife was scared to tell me. Horribly descriptive blog post. Ouch. Amazing to say I still love her and hope to reconcile. Perhaps I'll never learn.

I have two weeks to think about it. And so does she.

 

...

 

Don't need much counsel but nice to know someone is listening.

 

Hi Kidd. I won't waste time admonishing you regarding the violence thing since you already know it's not the answer. Oh, and jail sucks - right?

 

This is long, but you leave me no choice

 

You are what, 9 - 10 months out from d-day? For my money just about all of your actions to date have been typical and quite predictable. You seem like an intelligent person, but you continue to try and think your way through the horrific emotional trauma you have suffered. I have given you this type of feedback many times in the past, and I hope that recent developments might cause you to finally heed my advice. Maybe you should try a different tack since what you are doing does not seem to be working. I mean, how much worse can things get for you?

 

Maybe you could start out by understanding the difference between a thought and a feeling. Pop the phrase "thought vs. feeling" into google and check out some of the links. It takes a while to get the hang of it, but it is worth the time as you need to know the difference in order to get out of your head and into your heart. In the final analysis, the heart always wins out because you cannot deny and repress your feelings forever. If you don't think this is what you have been doing then go back through your own posts here on LS and see the path you have taken to get where you are now.

 

Besides the obvious anger and disgust you feel about her affair, how about some other feelings that may be there but you don't know how to express them.

 

Food for thought:

 

• Do you feel ashamed of yourself for staying with a cheating wife?
  

 

• When you think of your wife having sex with OM and lying to your face, do you feel ashamed of HER?
  

 

• Do you think that your wife is not really sorry for cheating on you? Like she's sorry that it hurt you but she felt entitled somehow to get with OM? Now, put away your thoughts and get in touch with how you feel. Is she sorry for cheating or sorry she couldn't carry around the guilt?
  

 

• What makes you feel more afraid; starting a new life or trying to repair your old life?
  

Remember, there are no wrong answers here as we are talking about feelings. It's hard to learn how to get at your emotions, but your counselor will help you if ask him/her. You may still be in so much pain that you are unwilling to face your emotions because you have not learned how to do that and it is scary as hell. If that's the case, push yourself a little at a time. It's the only way you can begin to truly heal from this.

 

Something that you say you understand, but I sincerely doubt that you do, is just how much trauma you have suffered. What did your wife mean to you before d-day? She probably was the center of your world, the object of your deepest affection, the mother of your children, your most trusted confidant, and much more. Your relationship defined how the world worked; how life was meant to be. It also defined who you were as a person in that you were a husband, a lover, a father, a provider.

 

Then d-day. These things I describe compose much of your very existence, and they were all shattered that day. Up was now down, dark was now light, love was now hate. The emotional impact is impossible to overstate. The beliefs and values that guided your life are suddenly broken, and you feel as though you are falling into an abyss. Many people reach out to grab on to their old life so they will stop falling. They need to try to put their emotional world back together so that they can function. And they need to do it as soon as possible in an attempt to end the fear, pain, and confusion. This is when many BS's try to find a way to swallow the whole thing to make it go away. They "understand" and "forgive" and do whatever possible to put this in the past so they can get their old life back and make this nightmare go away. The WS is ever so happy to help the BS put this all in the past to help ease their guilt and shame.

 

What happens next is also quite predicable. Since you can't keep your emotions stuffed away entirely, things happen to set them off. Things like mental images of them having sex. Like drips of gasoline onto hot coals, these images cause flare-ups of anger, disgust, and other emotions. But you swallow them again and hope that time will eventually make them go away.

 

Maybe then you experience water torture or what you refer to as "trickle truths". With your strong emotions lying just beneath the surface any new information that you discover or drag out of WS causes more flare-ups. You may start to over-react as these emotions you have bottled up come bursting out. As the feelings of anger, shame, betrayal overwhelm you, you may even do crazy things like burning your couch and throwing your wife right out the front door. When you don't face your emotions head on they tend to come out in ways that aren't always easily controlled.

 

Kidd, you need to focus on your own healing before you do anything else. I'm not saying you need to be "healed" to move forward, as that will never happen, but you need to begin learning how to vent your feelings safely.

 

Maybe your recent troubles are a blessing in disguise. They are proof that you cannot think or wish this nightmare away. You need help from professionals who are trained to help people in crisis. You are not crazy, you have suffered a tremendous emotional trauma and need help regaining your balance.

 

I'm not sure if I asked you this before, but I'll ask anyway. If your brother came to you with your story, how would you help him? What would you encourage him to do? How much compassion would you offer him? Ok, now do the same for yourself.

[chelsea2011]

 

My atty agreed to a continuance for another week without asking me. Thus, the temporary injunction remains in place. The 3 months is what she proposed for a settlement. I could accept it, negotiate, or fight it by having my day in court. Have no idea if this is a precursor to D or her initial requirements for R. Just putting my best foot forward. Playing phone tag with my atty. W continues to want visitation supervised. Hurts.

 

Hmm, I'm not trying to be a downer here, but it sounds like her Attorney is setting the stage just incase she decides to divorce. The request that visitation remains supervised, the continuance, both go with hand in hand with "consent non-consent" regarding the RO. In other words, she is getting her "ducks in a row" if she decides to divorce. Her Attorney is probably advising her to insist on supervised visits so it doesn't appear like she is renegging (sp?) On the RO. It gives her a leg up in court should she decide to divorce.

 

I would be careful if I were you and talk to your Attorney about what your course of action should be if this is the case, to protect yourself.

 

How is the communication between the two of you right now? Is she showing any signs of wanting to talk about your marriage?

[chelsea2011]

OK...demonstrating my lack of legal knowledge here.

 

The proposed seperation is a settlement for what?

 

The RO? I thought that most RO's are TRO's...with a set duration and specific limitations and boundaries. Your attorney agreed to the extension of the current agreement without your knowledge and consent...sounds to me like you need to set him straight, ASAP.

 

But as far as that goes...the RO will "expire" unless someone requests it to be extended or implemented for a longer duration...so I don't understand how the seperation would be a "settlement" for anything along those lines.

 

Usually, when I hear "settlement" that's talking about distrubution of assets as a result of a divorce...not sure what it means in the context you've listed here.

 

Before you agree to this "settlement"...why not have a sit down with your attorney and outline some changes that you feel that you want to make during this time to be documented in some fashion...and just as critically, why not also request that your wife make some specific changes that you require from her during this seperation period as well?

 

From my perspective...the both of you are equally culpable for the "state of affairs" (pun intended) at this point...you've both done serious damage to each other.

 

Use the chance to INSIST on changes she needs to make, and to make important changes in your own world as well.

 

Owl, when a spouse files a RO in a case like this, you can choose to settle the matter or go before the judge to plead your case and he decides. This is what happened in my case. I had to file a RO when I decided to get divorced and we settled the terms instead of going before the judge. The settlement can be anything depending upon the circumstances. In this case, it appears like it was a three month separation before he is allowed back in the home, if she chooses to reconcile.

 

He needs to be doing everything he can right now to show that he will not do anything like this again, so he can get those restraints lifted. The ball is essentially in her court right now. He needs to be in counseling and take anger management classes to prove he will not be a threat anymore.

Edited January 12, 2012 by chelsea2011

[Kidd]

Owl, when a spouse files a RO in a case like this, you can choose to settle the matter or go before the judge to plead your case and he decides. This is what happened in my case. I had to file a RO when I decided to get divorced and we settled the terms instead of going before the judge. The settlement can be anything depending upon the circumstances. In this case, it appears like it was a three month separation before he is allowed back in the home, if she chooses to reconcile.

 

He needs to be doing everything he can right now to show that he will not do anything like this again, so he can get those restraints lifted. The ball is essentially in her court right now. He needs to be in counseling and take anger management classes to prove he will not be a threat anymore.

 

Pretty accurate summary. I'll try to give an update tonight. Just been busy. No real new developments. Court on Tuesday.