tables turned or mind games again?

[MarMarMar]

Actually it does work, I met with my ex on Thursday, showed empathy and love towards her, guess what she returned?

 

Empathy and love. Try it sometime.

 

There was absolutely no hate or resentment because I showed none. You just have to be the bigger person. Be that light that shines even when you are hurt. I got her from saying that we would never be friends to bring up the possibility of us being friends. I never even brought it up either, she was talking to herself

 

That's fine and dandy but she needs to put in some effort or fix her personal issues and they won't be genuine unless she wants to change and grow. It frankly isn't the OP's problem that she can't find happiness in herself because they're not together anymore. And issues or not it doesn't change that the behavior she's engaging in is hurtful for the OP. And it doesn't make her behavior excusable to another human being.

 

Stop acting like every dumpee needs to get back together with their dumper and save them. Every break up is different and people are different. Some can get back together some can't. Just because there is a possibility of reconciliation down the line doesn't mean the OP should put himself through all sorts of unnecessary pain on the behalf of a girl who as of this moment right now has shown no care for his wellbeing and is only looking out for herself. Not everyone needs to be a martyr. If she changes down the line, fine. But right now why?

[wilsonx]

This forum makes me want to facepalm sometimes

 

you just dont understand

[Mack05]

So in me understanding you, why would a comment like that piss you off?

 

"empathy and love try it sometime"??

 

Right there you assume I don't show emapthy or love without knowing a thing about me. I have either reached out (or vice versa) to all my ex's in the past and they have responded well to me (as you stated) except my last ex. I had an ex of 7 years treat me horribly in the end as I supported her through her dad's illness and forgive her when she reached out years later. I preach forgiveness, its how I will live my life going forward. Not everyone thinks like me.

 

I tell you right now Wilson. My ex, the girl that came onto LS and tore into me, would ignore me or abuse me if I tried to reach out to her and be friends. That is her choice. I hurt her in the R, handled things very badly and I take full responsibilty for that. I don't expect her to say "Mack good to hear from you". I was a mess when I met her and brought those problems into the R. She had her issues too, but to me that is unimportant. I was emotionally unhealthy so the R was doomed from the get go. Doesn't matter how much love or empathy I would show her. I couldn't do it over a sustained period of time, because I was too selfish and self involved in my own issues (like Headsashed ex). I looked to her to make me happy. If you are not happy within yourself most people are incapable of giving love and empathy 24/7, 365.

 

I want to be a good guy going forward. Treat my girl the way you described above but life is not that simple. Step 1 for me is to get back to full emotional health. Learn more about empathy, communication, understanding and compromise. I don't believe its possible to be perfect in an R. All I hope to do is my very best and hope its enough for one girl one day..

[MarMarMar]

This forum makes me want to facepalm sometimes

 

you just dont understand

 

I understand but there comes a time where you have to put yourself first for the good of your healing because no one else will. Forgiving is a good thing and I'm all for it but sometimes it takes time and it should be done AFTER the behavior that needs to stop is stopped. She's still doing all those thing that hurt the OP so right now it's best if he just stays away.

 

She has issues and that's fine, that however does not make her unaccountable for her actions and even though in her mind she is probably confused and lost that doesn't mean the OP needs to put himself through hurt on her behalf because she in her own pain and issues has shown no consideration for his feelings.

 

Also that attitude about just being there for them regardless of how they act has the stirrings of what an abusive relationship is all about all give- no take so no he does not need to be there for her when she'll just suck him dry in her quest to end her own misery.

[MarMarMar]

"empathy and love try it sometime"??

 

Right there you assume I don't show emapthy or love without knowing a thing about me. I have either reached out (or vice versa) to all my ex's in the past and they have responded well to me (as you stated) except my last ex. I had an ex of 7 years treat me horribly in the end as I supported her through her dad's illness and forgive her when she reached out years later. I preach forgiveness, its how I will live my life going forward. Not everyone thinks like me.

 

I tell you right now Wilson. My ex, the girl that came onto LS and tore into me, would ignore me or abuse me if I tried to reach out to her and be friends. That is her choice. I hurt her in the R, handled things very badly and I take full responsibilty for that. I don't expect her to say "Mack good to hear from you". I was a mess when I met her and brought those problems into the R. She had her issues too, but to me that is unimportant. I was emotionally unhealthy so the R was doomed from the get go. Doesn't matter how much love or empathy I would show her. I couldn't do it over a sustained period of time, because I was too selfish and self involved in my own issues (like Headsashed ex). I looked to her to make me happy. If you are not happy within yourself most people are incapable of giving love and empathy 24/7, 365.

 

I want to be a good guy going forward. Treat my girl the way you described above but life is not that simple. Step 1 for me is to get back to full emotional health. Learn more about empathy, communication, understanding and compromise. I don't believe its possible to be perfect in an R. All I hope to do is my very best and hope its enough for one girl one day..

 

I completely agree with you. If someone makes you happy fine, but if you're not happy with yourself and by yourself first it will eventually bleed in to everything.

[geegirl]

She needs to face the fear on her own and conquer her personal demons. There is no secret code that needs to be broken. To me its very obvious...

 

I completely agree with the above. Head has no responsibility towards her emotional instability and until she finds it she needs to leave him alone and let him find his way. It is manipulation when you've dragged someone through the mud and still continue to do so (even after he's begged her to leave him alone until she makes a decision) just because she's unable to get her thoughts, feelings and life together. She manipulates based on her feelings, regardless of how it's been affecting H and she knows how it affects him. That just screams that she's more concerned about her wants and needs. Be jealous but realize that you chose a decision that comes with those repercussions. And you bear those repercussions on your own. Head is not there to lick her wounds. Anything other than manipulating circumstances on her terms would be to do the kind and caring thing and extend empathy, which is to let him go until she realizes what she wants.

 

Empathy and love is wonderful. By her behaviors to him in the past, there was hardly any showing of that. Give where it deserves to be given. A couple of texts boohooing after a rumor, and a so called profound revelation that's half baked with "not sure's" is game playing. I don't like you with others but I'm not sure if I want to be with you? What sort of turmoil are you causing someone with those words, especially someone that is still hurt and broken? Empathy is not a word she understands. Until she gets her head screwed on straight and has an ounce of empathy for the pain and hurt that H is going through (which she has never extended to him), and has the ability to reciprocate his feelings, it's nothing but a bunch of woe is me tactics. Love and empathy is not what has been making H confused and hurt for the past 6 months he's been here.

Edited December 29, 2011 by geegirl

[lalalandman]

Lol I love how threads get hijacked.

 

Her words may be true but her actions are desperate and unfair to you. I've been in this EXACT situation before. Trust me, if you go back to her now, things will probably be WORSE than before.

 

Just keep this in mind, that you're not obligated to be with ANYONE. You come first. Don't worry about what your ex is telling you now. I think a better show of strength would be if you just went solo.

 

Mahalo

[PoppyLove89]

Having read your post and the couple before that, I've come to the conclusion that your ex still sees you as hers...like, you're her property still. She wants to have you on a string in case her other ventures don't work out. She's taking advantage of the fact that you still love her and it's not fair on you.

 

There's no way you should be with someone who only wants you when they can't have you. Classic case of "want to have my cake and eat it too".

 

Keep ignoring her, this way the her truth will out. She'll either fight for you or she'll bail because it's not worth the effort to her. Either way, you deserve someone who wants you no matter what!!!

[headsashed]

Wow,thanx for all the replies,you all care ...joking lol.

 

I agree and disagree with some points made but i am my own man and have to make my own decisions,right or wrong. 2 years ago i made a decision to give this girl my heart,which in fairness she treated pretty well,thats something i wont ever deny. After the 2 years i chose to chase her because i still loved her but i was obviousley knocked back,then i chose to walk away and try heal myself while all along she knew i still loved her very much and all she had to do was cast out her hook and i would be back,thats manipulative if you ask me,yes i took the bait and i chose to believe everything she said,i was wrong again,i mean,a girl whom says she hsd loved you all this time and wants to see how things go just goes out and sleeps with some random stranger and tells me on xmas eve,thats just wrong. So i chose to do what was right for meand walk away with my head held high.

 

And for these texts,i strongly believe that if she handnt heard this romour then i wouldnt have recieved any texts at all,thats says it all to me. She realised i was finally slipping away from her and thats the only reason she contacted me. She even said she would come to my house even if i said no,who does she think she is,she doesnt own me,she panicked,its as simple as that. Do i believe what she put in those texts? not really,ive heard most of it before and nothign ever changed so why would it now? If she hadnt hurt me and done the things she has done in the past 4 months then i probably would believe her and consider a reconcilliation, but shes treat me badly and hurt me very much and i dont believe she would change,thats why i dont believe a word she has said to me.

 

I know alot of my faults in the R but alot were hers too but she does blame me for them all,for instance,she said we didnt do nothing on a night,well she works 12 hours then comes to mine and falls to sleep,when i have asked her to do something she always said no,so how is that my fault? another,i won some money on a football bet and offered to take her abroad,she said no,but yet she always wanted to go abroad with me,so hows that my fault? another,she doesnt want to talk 24/7,during the 2 years i can honestly say that she always txt me etc,it used to get me angry at times because txts were every 2 minutes,so how is that my fault? she says it is lol.

 

From the txts etc what i have had she basically wants a relationship were we hardly see each other,never txt,do the things SHE wants,basically its all about her,i doubt she would consider my needs. I want a relationship were i can see my gf more than once a a fortnight or something lol,whats wrong with txting them on a morning to say you love them and have a good day at work? os she wouldnt want me doing that. So really how could i be in a relationship with a women whom has hurt me so badly and wants that sort of a relationship. Now my fingers are hurting lol.

[EgoJoe]

They are debating the finer points OP.

 

Wilson: The whole "you just don't understand" is a defense mechanism of your own. It's the first avenue of deflection in a failing argument. I didn't read the rest of the derail here but I know that much about arguments, defense mechanisms and what not.

 

OP: You're not perfect and I know things suck. But no matter what you do just give yourself a bunch of time before you ever talk to this girl, ok?

 

Who knows maybe you'll both grow up and it'll be everything you wanted. But, no matter what you'll heal bud and that is what matters. No elevated heartbeat from texts etc. So, focus on you, you're worth that kind of effort and attention. She has opted out of your focus and that is not your fault, cross to bear or guilt trip to deal with, ok?

 

A side note...after you say, "I love you" to a girl...you don't say it that often and never when she is being a bitch or has been mad. There is rationale behind this and I could point you in the right directon. Take it from someone who got coaxed into ILUs everyday...in the end she resented me for saying it.

[Mack05]

Ego good post. Headsashed as fatboy slim once said..."You've come along way baby!"

[wilsonx]

See, here we go bash something we dont understand. Bash Wilson.

 

I did not say hang out with her and go start dating her again, I said show empathy and love towards someone you cared about and let go of the hate, anger and resentment. How long are you going to go on with this.

 

Shes human SHE IS CONFUSED AND LOST I SAID THIS ALREADY, lost, respect that about her is all I am saying and move forward with your life. EVERYBODY ON THIS FORUM IS CONFUSED AND LOST AND LOOKING FOR GUIDANCE ARE THEY NOT? Dont I do my best ability to help people on their way? What makes her different then you guys and gals?

 

The selfish why would I show someone empathy or love because they dont show me empathy or love proves point and the classic flaw of selfishness. You can say, damn I love that crazy girl and still let her go on her own confused way. God forbid a dumper come on this forum and everybody slams them. Thats selfishness

 

There was no manipulation in those texts. Absolutely none. If you think thats manipulation, thats more of a lack of emotional intelligence on your parts. I dont need someone to back me up or tag up with me and be like oooh burned. I can stand up for myself and say I know I am talking about. This isnt my first rodeo, for a long time, I had been looking at the world from a selfish, I cant believe I was treated this way perception. I realized that how I am treated is dependent upon how I treat others and its very true.

 

------------

 

I had to go for a run because I did not understand why the hate or resentment went out towards me when I said show empathy and love towards someone you once cared about. Why were people getting mad and calling me naive. And then it clicked.

 

Its like me taking away a paralyzed man's wheel chair and telling him to walk down the steps, of course hes going to be angry and mad and call me naive. Because in the first place he doesnt or have the ability to walk which leads me to that most people here have no concept of empathy or love in the first place. Its a new concept to people. What, how dare you say something like that. What the paralyzed man didnt realize is that the stairs was actually an escalator and the wheel chair just wouldnt fit.

Edited December 29, 2011 by wilsonx

[Mack05]

Wilsonx (or greyx as I will call u from now on) this change of prespective you got going on is interesting. You have clearly educated yourself on these type of things and I applaud you for thinking outside the box. I have no problem with that, just don't going saying stuff to me like "showing love and empathy, you should try it some time". To me I will show all the love and empathy in the world, but I need to be an emotionally healthy unselfish man and love myself first, before I can fully commit to that. Right now im a good bit off that and that is the truth.

 

I know you want to try put us in her shoes. I have no doubt she is confused hurt and scared and is probably looking for answers she doesn't have. I know you want headsashed to show her love and empathy, but in this situation he needs to put himself first and that is the point we are making. He could be the nice guy or the villian (I believe he has been both the past few months with her) with a girl like this the outcome is the same and this is the point you have missed. She is too self absorbed and selfish to see the forrest from the trees.

 

Yes you showed your ex love and empathy and the results were positive. If headsashed showed his ex empathy and love and/or me with my ex the results would not be as positive. Is it because they are two emotionally unhealthy women? Maybe. I have no idea what is going on with my ex, so I can't comment. Is it because different people handle different situations differently. Maybe again. You need to understand that while you way of viewing things is very admirable, it will not always be correct. You can show all the love and empathy you want, but depending on the person you might not get it back. This woman is a mess. Heahsashed see's this. He needs to fully disconnect until she resolves her personal demons. He then (as geegirl as says to me when she is advising me) needs to take accountability for his role in the relationship demise. Headsashed is not perfect. He knows he needs to heal and learn from mistakes. He can only do this by disconnecting. Not by showing her love and empathy. It won't work on a woman like this..

Edited December 29, 2011 by Mack05

[MarMarMar]

See, here we go bash something we dont understand. Bash Wilson.

 

I did not say hang out with her and go start dating her again, I said show empathy and love towards someone you cared about and let go of the hate, anger and resentment. How long are you going to go on with this.

 

Shes human SHE IS CONFUSED AND LOST I SAID THIS ALREADY, lost, respect that about her is all I am saying and move forward with your life. EVERYBODY ON THIS FORUM IS CONFUSED AND LOST AND LOOKING FOR GUIDANCE ARE THEY NOT? Dont I do my best ability to help people on their way? What makes her different then you guys and gals?

 

The selfish why would I show someone empathy or love because they dont show me empathy or love proves point and the classic flaw of selfishness. You can say, damn I love that crazy girl and still let her go on her own confused way. God forbid a dumper come on this forum and everybody slams them. Thats selfishness

 

There was no manipulation in those texts. Absolutely none. If you think thats manipulation, thats more of a lack of emotional intelligence on your parts. I dont need someone to back me up or tag up with me and be like oooh burned. I can stand up for myself and say I know I am talking about. This isnt my first rodeo, for a long time, I had been looking at the world from a selfish, I cant believe I was treated this way perception. I realized that how I am treated is dependent upon how I treat others and its very true.

 

------------

 

I had to go for a run because I did not understand why the hate or resentment went out towards me when I said show empathy and love towards someone you once cared about. Why were people getting mad and calling me naive. And then it clicked.

 

Its like me taking away a paralyzed man's wheel chair and telling him to walk down the steps, of course hes going to be angry and mad and call me naive. Because in the first place he doesnt or have the ability to walk which leads me to that most people here have no concept of empathy or love in the first place. Its a new concept to people. What, how dare you say something like that. What the paralyzed man didnt realize is that the stairs was actually an escalator and the wheel chair just wouldnt fit.

 

The hate goes out because you act self righteous. We're all entitled to our opinions but you're the first to bash other people's opinions and when they retaliate you act like the victim. We all have our point of view; don't belittle others for not agreeing with you specially since month to month you completely change tactics.

 

All some of us are saying is sometimes no matter how much love or empathy you show someone it won't be enough for them and because they are hurt/confused/hate themselves they'll be doing what feels right at the time which might change minute to minute and as collateral ends up hurting others. That doesn't make them a bad person but it doesn't change the fact that their actions are hurting others.

 

I'm concerned for the OP because he keeps showing his ex compassion and she keeps taking advantage of that and she seems to like the sense of security he provides. Again it doesn't change the fact that because she is confused her needs are constantly changing and the OP is getting taken for a ride as a result. If he sticks around for all of that all it says to her is that her behavior is acceptable because she hasn't had consequences.

 

OP: She's human, she makes mistakes, she's not a bad person and deserves to be forgiven. Don't forget though: YOU are also human with feelings and flaws and you're not a bad person either. You don't deserve to suffer as a collateral of her misery and indecisiveness, don't punish yourself because you love her. Your love won't fix her, only she can fix herself. I'm not saying don't forgive her, but remember forgiving doesn't mean you should stick around to be hurt some more. You can forgive her but you don't need to compromise your emotional wellbeing for her sake.

[wilsonx]

You're writing 3 paragraph responses for a single text response I said to send to her.

 

It did not say empathy or love in the text message did it? No, it was the underlying premise.

 

He has 2 choices, do it or dont do it. Everything else is irrelevant. We all voiced our opinions. Thats the black and white response you are looking for but we cant be selfish either.

 

Your ex chose to not be with you for a reason. My ex chose not to be with me for a reason. I understand that now. It was their choice. We cant fault them for that in the grand scheme of things. People come here all the time because they dont want to be with their bf gfs and more and look what we do, we try to talk them out of it. That is being selfish black and white on our parts

[Mack05]

Wilsonx maybe he can be sweet and considerate before he disconnects at least then he can say he was the bigger man. The results will be the same no matter what he does, as I said above she will grab on for dear life and ignore his wishes. BTW I bought the book for Men only. I want to open my mind and change thought patterns from the past. But I want to change my thought pattern slowly. You seem to have gone from black and white to grey over night..Something to think about

[headsashed]

I wil always admit that ive been and done wrong things in and out of this relationship. Maybe im wrong in not replying to her,even if its just to say "i dont want anything more to do with you as i need to heal" but not replying just seems easier for me because i know she can twist words etc and get me right back in there,i just dont want to be hurt all over again and i believe thats what she will do. In time i would forgive her as she did give me an amazing 2 years,but right now im still angry and upset with the way she has treated me.

[wilsonx]

I have been this way for a couple weeks btw, Ive masked it.

 

Theres nothing wrong with "grey" thinking. Theres actually something wrong with black and white thinking

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=black+and+white+thinking&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

 

Start reading =)

[stunned8165]

This is getting really deep. And I thought I had problems.

 

I 'm sorry, I am a grown adult. But I can't just show empathy for someone who did me so wrong. What was done to me is unforgivable. They WAY it was done is unforgivable. If she want's empathy or forgiveness, she is going to have to walk the walk and talk the talk. I tried for the first four months to be a little "friendly" but got ignored until I wrote her an e mail saying I was gone. Funny how 7 weeks after I did that, tid bits of contact have taken place. But I fed her nothing. I won't except nothing less than asking me to meet her and talk about this. I tried to get her to meet me so I can give her Christmas presents for the kids. She agreed then backed out with a fabricated text 3 days later. What ever. I did the right thing. Her turn!

[Mack05]

The hate goes out because you act self righteous. We're all entitled to our opinions but you're the first to bash other people's opinions and when they retaliate you act like the victim. We all have our point of view; don't belittle others for not agreeing with you specially since month to month you completely change tactics.

 

All some of us are saying is sometimes no matter how much love or empathy you show someone it won't be enough for them and because they are hurt/confused/hate themselves they'll be doing what feels right at the time which might change minute to minute and as collateral ends up hurting others. That doesn't make them a bad person but it doesn't change the fact that their actions are hurting others.

 

I'm concerned for the OP because he keeps showing his ex compassion and she keeps taking advantage of that and she seems to like the sense of security he provides. Again it doesn't change the fact that because she is confused her needs are constantly changing and the OP is getting taken for a ride as a result. If he sticks around for all of that all it says to her is that her behavior is acceptable because she hasn't had consequences.

 

OP: She's human, she makes mistakes, she's not a bad person and deserves to be forgiven. Don't forget though: YOU are also human with feelings and flaws and you're not a bad person either. You don't deserve to suffer as a collateral of her misery and indecisiveness, don't punish yourself because you love her. Your love won't fix her, only she can fix herself. I'm not saying don't forgive her, but remember forgiving doesn't mean you should stick around to be hurt some more. You can forgive her but you don't need to compromise your emotional wellbeing for her sake.

 

I like this post MarMar

[Mack05]

I have been this way for a couple weeks btw, Ive masked it.

 

Theres nothing wrong with "grey" thinking. Theres actually something wrong with black and white thinking

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=black+and+white+thinking&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

 

Start reading =)

 

Oh I have already. Geegirl is my best friend on this site and she says I am a black and white thinker. The thing here is Wilson, I don't think this (our opinions on this thread) is black and white thinking. 'Grey' thinkers use this in an argument. It's a lazy form of arguing. I don't agree with you, which means you are a black and white thinker. Just cause you say it, don't make it true..

Edited December 29, 2011 by Mack05

[MarMarMar]

Yes but when you break up with someone they're not "yours" anymore. It seems like the OP's ex still feels like OP is her's. It was her decision to break up with him and she needs to realize all the consequences that go with breakups, not as a punishment but just because things won't be the same and she's expecting a lot more from OP than she really has any right to.

 

And I'm not being selfish. My ex broke up with me for his own reasons and his has his issues just like I do. I respected my ex's decision to break up but now he's not respecting me or my request for space. All I want is some mutual respect and care. In having empathy for others we shouldn't forget to have empathy for ourselves.

[Mack05]

I think Black and white thinking is saying she is a pyscho, Headsashed is a good guy and you need to disconnect and never speak to this woman again. Read over the posts. We are not saying that. I feel one is as bad as the other. I don't think Hea's ex is all bad and Headsashed himself is all good. That is black and white thinking.

 

What we are saying is that its clear she has issues (as does head himself) and that they are better off disconnecting until they resolve those issues. Its been a rollercoaster since the breakup and this kind of drama is not healthy. Again not black and white thinking there. Headsashes recovery has been delayed by staying in contact with her again this is fact. The text you asked him to sent you don't think he hasn't sent a text like that already?

 

The best thing for them both is to get their own personal issues sorted. Then if they want to reconnect in future they can do so with a clear head. The onlt thing I agree with you Wilson is that the second last thing he should do is wish her well and be nice. The last thing he should do is forgive himself for his mistakes and forgive her. This will allow him to move on freely..But not forgiving you give the other person power over you and they don't deserve it..

[wilsonx]

have you ever ended a long term relationship before? especially when you are younger, the guilt from ending a relationship becomes ridiculous to the point where in that 2-3 months the dumper will come back and ask to start over. There are posts all over this forum about this.

 

I ended a long term relationship when I was 22 and a few months later, I thought I was going to die, so they reach out and take little injections of you to ease the pain.

 

It hurts you yes but at the same time, they are hurting and trying not to hurt you in the process.

[MarMarMar]

I like this post MarMar

 

Glad to see I'm not just being a crazy rambler haha. The gray thinking in this topic for me is the forgive the one that hurt you but also forgive yourself or something.