tables turned or mind games again?

[MarMarMar]

have you ever ended a long term relationship before? especially when you are younger, the guilt from ending a relationship becomes ridiculous to the point where in that 2-3 months the dumper will come back and ask to start over. There are posts all over this forum about this.

 

I ended a long term relationship when I was 22 and a few months later, I thought I was going to die, so they reach out and take little injections of you to ease the pain.

 

It hurts you yes but at the same time, they are hurting and trying not to hurt you in the process.

 

THAT is selfish; I know that ending a relationship hurts, but again empathy and respect go both ways. OP's ex is easing her own pain but then shuns him when he is in pain.

 

I can't remember which forum poster mentioned this quote from somewhere but I think it applies here (paraphrase sorry I can't remember how it actually went): 'I know you're hurting but it was your decision to end this and because of that I'm the only person in the world that can't make you feel better'

[wilsonx]

THAT is selfish; I know that ending a relationship hurts, but again empathy and respect go both ways. OP's ex is easing her own pain but then shuns him when he is in pain.

 

I can't remember which forum poster mentioned this quote from somewhere but I think it applies here (paraphrase sorry I can't remember how it actually went): 'I know you're hurting but it was your decision to end this and because of that I'm the only person in the world that can't make you feel better'

 

now that I am 30 years old I understand of that is selfish but at the time when I was 22 I didn't know any better just like best young dumb person doesn't know any better either because she's young and she's hurting . you learn this through age and experience the first time always hurts the worst. it's called empathy putting yourself in their shoes in understanding they are hurting too

Edited December 29, 2011 by wilsonx

[Mack05]

have you ever ended a long term relationship before? especially when you are younger, the guilt from ending a relationship becomes ridiculous to the point where in that 2-3 months the dumper will come back and ask to start over. There are posts all over this forum about this.

 

I ended a long term relationship when I was 22 and a few months later, I thought I was going to die, so they reach out and take little injections of you to ease the pain.

 

It hurts you yes but at the same time, they are hurting and trying not to hurt you in the process.

 

Ok you want to do this lets do this. I have ended a 7 year (nearly 8) relationship before (when I was 29). For 18 months previous me ex treated me like total crap. Her father was terminally ill and she just couldn't cope with it all. I was her emotional punch bag. She constantly demeaned me in front of friends and family and I took it. She offered very little to the relationship. A few years before she punched me in the face and threw every piece of jewellery I bought her, down the drain because I didnt talk to her enough one night when two good friends had come back from New York (and I told her not to come in fearing her temper). That crazy behaviour was caused by bulimia and the aftermath of that apparently.

 

My friends and family would ask me if I was crazy, but what kind of man walks out on someone they love, whose father is terminally ill? Eventually one night I had enough. She put me down in front of her whole family and not one of them tried defending me. It was the straw that broke the camels back. We met the next night and she was ice cold as I ended things. "Whatever Mack bye". My life went into a downward spiral after that Wilson. I gained weight (lots of it), started to gamble. I used all bad things to fill the emotional gap of her leaving me. I have lost so much. I am still repaying for those mistakes emotionally, mentally and physically.

 

In my worst debts of depression, I blamed her for everything. What a cowards way of thinking, but I did. I was going places, had everything sorted in my life. We just bought a beautiful house together, my career was going great. She took that all away from me, after everything I did for her. Despite all the nasty things she did, I still loved her. She was my first everything. It was only after a very rocky relationship ended in March did I face my demons. My behaviour in that relationship wasn't me. Now my ex (the girl in March) was no saint. She is happy to believe I am all bad and she is all good, (oh the irony) that is how she will probably always deal with things. I nearly made the same mistakes in the aftermath of that breakup and blamed her for everything. But I stopped myself and went to Therapy. Therapy sucked, anyone who has ever done it will tell you that. The therapist forced it inwards towards me. Why did I blame my ex (of 7 years) for all those bad personal choices? I mean she didn't make me do it. I am back in therapy and still working towards all the answers and what I need to do going forward to heal from all the years of damage I did to myself both physically and emotionally.

 

The one thing I don't do is blame my ex's for anything. Cowards do that. They do nothing to change their circumstances and blame everyone else for their predicament. A few months ago my long term ex got married. She tracked me down on Facebook and send me a VERY heartfelt email and asked for forgiveness. If she did that 12 months previous, I have no doubt I'd have let her have it with both barrells. Instead, I remembered the beautiful girl who I shared many great memories with. She handled our relationship terribly, but she was going through the worst time in her life. I was the guy that took the brunt, the fallguy. Me telling her what she already knew, was never going to change anything. So I genuinely forgive her and wished her well for her new life. I also forgive myself for my mistakes (the first step to loving yourself again). She has since gotten married and send me a picture. I may still be more black and white then you Wilson but I have had to learn some harsh lessons and I still have more to learn..

 

What I do know is that everyone on this site has an opinion and just because it doesn't conform to your way of thinking doesn't make one or the other wrong, or a black and white thinker..

Edited December 29, 2011 by Mack05

[wilsonx]

Good luck

 

Head, do what you think is best bro

[MarMarMar]

now that I am 30 years old I understand of that is selfish but at the time when I was 22 I didn't know any better just like best young dumb person doesn't know any better either because she's young and she's hurting . you learn this through age and experience the first time always hurts the worst. it's called empathy putting yourself in their shoes in understanding they are hurting too

 

You're insinuating that because my advice to the OP is to stay NC and not respond I don't have empathy for others. I do have empathy for others, in fact one of my issues in my relationship was having too much empathy and forgiving my ex for everything he ever did and having no boundaries as a result of that. Unfortunately that left me open to being walked all over and getting hurt more. At the end of the day, no matter how much you put yourself in someone's shoes and rationalize their behavior, there is still cause and effect.

 

She's human and she's allowed to have issues as a said before before but it doesn't change the fact that her actions caused OP pain and all the issues she has does not give her a get out of jail free card. There's no need to be masochists here.

 

So what I'm saying is people on these forums do need to have empathy for their exes but they also need to reconnect with themselves and have care for their own feelings as well.

[Mack05]

You're insinuating that because my advice to the OP is to stay NC and not respond I don't have empathy for others. I do have empathy for others, in fact one of my issues in my relationship was having too much empathy and forgiving my ex for everything he ever did and having no boundaries as a result of that. Unfortunately that left me open to being walked all over and getting hurt more. At the end of the day, no matter how much you put yourself in someone's shoes and rationalize their behavior, there is still cause and effect.

 

She's human and she's allowed to have issues as a said before before but it doesn't change the fact that her actions caused OP pain and all the issues she has does not give her a get out of jail free card. There's no need to be masochists here.

 

So what I'm saying is people on these forums do need to have empathy for their exes but they also need to reconnect with themselves and have care for their own feelings as well.

 

That is he most effective line in this thread..

[headsashed]

This thread has gone crazy lol,i got another text about 30 mins ago saying we need to talk,i havent replied but ive been tempted to after reading peoples inputs,should i give her the benefit of the doubt and listen to what she has to say? i dunno,my head needs to be clear i think before i decide anything.

[MarMarMar]

This thread has gone crazy lol,i got another text about 30 mins ago saying we need to talk,i havent replied but ive been tempted to after reading peoples inputs,should i give her the benefit of the doubt and listen to what she has to say? i dunno,my head needs to be clear i think before i decide anything.

 

I agree that you need to clear your head before you decide anything. But remember; a text takes like 3 seconds of effort. I personally recommend stay NC just from what I've read has happened previous times because I'm more worried about your healing than anything that she might have to say simply because if it was really important I feel she could find you if she wanted to. But If you do decide to answer, be cautious and don't let yourself be used.

[MarMarMar]

That's true. I did the same thing when I was 22. It hurt like hell, and sometimes, I wanted to reach out and ease the pain for myself. The point is, that I didn't do that. He reached out to me but that is expected because I was the dumper and he the dumpee. I chose to end it, and thus, had to live with the consequences of my actions.

 

It seems that Headsashed is already clued up on what this chick is all about, and knows this is just a mind game. If she had sent such a text without the rumours, I may say something different. The fact that she needed to hear rumours to "realize" her feelings says a lot about the situation, to be honest. She doesn't care as long as he's still open/available to her. While he is that, she can feel some sense of ownership over him, like she can go back anytime. She made her bed, she can lie in it.

 

Chances are she is confused, maybe she does feel as she said, but she has to come to her own conclusion about what she wants, pick a path and stick to it. Messing people around is not good for anyone. He can't be responsible for her emotional welfare anymore than she can be for his.

 

You are my hero. Excellently worded!

[Mack05]

This thread has gone crazy lol,i got another text about 30 mins ago saying we need to talk,i havent replied but ive been tempted to after reading peoples inputs, should i give her the benefit of the doubt and listen to what she has to say? i dunno,my head needs to be clear i think before i decide anything.

 

hmmm I think if you read and took in people's input, then you wouldn't be tempted. Just when I think you are making big progress, you come back with a post like the one above which completely contradicts your previous posts on this thread. Headsashed its time to be a man about this and stop being a coward. It's time to put an end to the drama once and for all. Arrange to meet her within the next few days (before 2012). You sit down with her and be nice to her. You explain that you have decided to move on and that your mind will not be swayed on this. Explain that you feel you can't trust her and that you feel it's best you give each other space as you resolve your own personal issues. Tell her that you will not reply to any contact she makes in the future and if she continues to contact you that you will block her permanently.

 

Look into her eyes and say if you have any real feelings or respect for me to leave me be. Show strength, not weakness. Explain that you want 2012 to be a new start in your life. Maybe you can meet up in 6 months and maybe things might have changed. Right now you are both WAY too confused to make sense of all this. Time and space will help sort all of that out..If she says no to any of this then she is too selfish and you simply cannot trust her. Stay with her as long as it takes and listen to what she has to say but be firm. You know what is best for you now stick to it.

 

Do you want 2012 to be the same as 2011? If not regrow your pair of balls!

[M2155]

I've been reading this all day (instead of working:o). I'm all for empathy, too much so like MarMarMar said in one of her posts, but at some point enough is enough. Yes she may be confused but she has to figure it out. If you sat down and talked to me, showed acceptance and respect, fine. But this chick has brought big drama and you have to decide if that's something you can handle in your life. I could not. I would let love go on that one to be relieved of the stress. She sounds emotionally stressful, and you can't work out your own emotions when she keeps popping up.

 

I would not respond but if you must, then tell her you're not ready to talk right now. I think you guys need a few months for this to die down. You don't owe her anything right now. She'll probably keep pushing for a while...

[headsashed]

i decided not to respond,i need a clear head before i talk to her,im still angry over the xmas eve crap so its best if i just carry on what i was doing. In time i know we will bump into each other,we still live pretty close so its bound to happen but hopefully by then both of our heads are clear and if and only then we can talk. I dont want to end up disliking this girl and talking to her right now would only end up in arguments,that im sure about,its not worth it in my eyes. In 32 years ive had my fair share of heart breaks but this 1 literally tore me apart and while ever im still emotionally vulnerable i think its best to leave things alone. I agree that we both still need to talk to each other about our issues too,just not yet,theres too much anger in the air. She will just have to respect my wishes and leave me be while i sort myself out.

[MarMarMar]

i decided not to respond,i need a clear head before i talk to her,im still angry over the xmas eve crap so its best if i just carry on what i was doing. In time i know we will bump into each other,we still live pretty close so its bound to happen but hopefully by then both of our heads are clear and if and only then we can talk. I dont want to end up disliking this girl and talking to her right now would only end up in arguments,that im sure about,its not worth it in my eyes. In 32 years ive had my fair share of heart breaks but this 1 literally tore me apart and while ever im still emotionally vulnerable i think its best to leave things alone. I agree that we both still need to talk to each other about our issues too,just not yet,theres too much anger in the air. She will just have to respect my wishes and leave me be while i sort myself out.

 

Good for you! I hope this new year will bring you clarity and peace and stuff! Hopefully she'll respect you and maybe she'll grow too.

[smokey bear]

I am going to actually disagree on everyone's take of manipulative behavior here. FYI, there are no games being played. Read what she wrote, its the truth. You have to understand what type of person you are dealing with. You are dealing with a young person, who probably ended their first long term relationship and they are scared. They are just as lost and in the fog as you are. I believe that there are manipulators and *******s out there, I just dont think given your age and her age, she is.

 

After these past 7 months I quit seeing things black and white. There's two sides of this story. There's your side headsashed where I see me a year ago and not know how to communicate with girls/women and then theres her side trying to tell you what you are doing wrong. FYI women will do this their entire lives, show your or try to change you into what they want.

 

Lets go to the first text:

 

There is nothing manipulative about this text, nothing. Let me say it again, nothing. She's telling you the truth. She regrets what shes done and the person shes become. Shes telling you her feelings. Shes also saying she "FEELS" jealous. The biggest part of this text that you missed. SHE IS CONFUSED. There is no manipulation there. She's lost without a map.

 

Now with me saying all this, its her job to find the map. You are in no way able to understand what shes saying or guide her because you are hurt and you are in self defense mode.

 

This is the second text. Shes telling you everything that she was unhappy with in the relationship. She says if you 2 were to hang out again, you would have to change. Shes saying shes willing to give it another chance but you and her have to take it slow.

 

From an outsider looking in, she's telling you the problem. I saw the problem in your last posts. There are 2 problems, 1 you dont understand what she saying 2 You are wounded. If I was you, I would break NC and tell her straight up, "I am hurt right now, I understand what you are saying, but we can not talk or hang out until, this goes away". This sets a clear non defensive boundary to her which she will understand.

 

Then go focus on healing and living your life

 

As a side note, we as people tend to label things that we do not understand, its like a self defense mechanism to prevent us from being hurt or hurt further. When you start to understand and put yourself in other people's shoes, things just start to make sense and the world is not black and white.

 

 

I could give you a round of applause for this one, you got it spot on Wilson, everything 100% the understanding of both text, you really have broadened your active listening skills and the advice given on what to do 100%. Spot on xx

[smokey bear]

Mack I agree with you but I also want to show you something, look at his last set of posts and how he messaged her. He messaged her with anger resentment hate. What happens as a kid when someone treats you like this, they return in kind. They treat you with anger resentment and hate.

 

My text comment wasnt naive, it was showing empathy saying that he understands how she feels, now she is going to respond with empathy back to him.

 

Treat others how you want to be treated. You show empathy towards one person, they will show empathy back. Show them love, they will show love back, treat them with anger hate and resentment, they will show you anger hate and resentment back

 

 

What Wilson advised to txt is spot on and the best avenue, If he accepts her back she will bounce back and forth causing more pain. If he rejects her, he isnt being true to himself becuse he wants her back and it wont stop her messing with his head either, if he replies as Wilson has said he's being truthful, honest and true to himself, without rejecting her or losing his choice at a second chance whil at the same time giving himslf what he needs, Time to heal, Alone hopefully

[smokey bear]

This works perfectly when you have to two happy, thoughtful, unselfish, emotionally healthy people in a relationship. When you have one or both partners not emotional healthy you can throw this theory right out the window, because you can be sure one or both of the partners will not regulary behave in the correct way for the relationship to be a long term success. They are bringing their unhappiness into the relationship and this is where resentment starts and begins to build.

 

In an ideal world Wilson your theory is correct but this is not an ideal world.

 

 

So what do you propose, rejecting her?

 

Wilson advised nc to heal, best option!

[smokey bear]

Won't even dignify that with a response. You don't know me or my circumstances so you have no right to assume or judge me. You want to piss me off? Then a comment like that is the right way to go about it. I have for ALONG time preached forgiveness on this site...To be the bigger person.

 

Im sure I could do the same with my ex. Meet up and be nice. Doesnt mean it would work if we ever get back together. Showing empathy and love 24/7 365 is great in theory, but life is not simple. If it was we would all hold hands singing 'Imagine' from John Lennon everyday..

 

Your taking things personal. There was nothing personal aimed at you.

 

Be the bigger person, dont let yourself down.

[smokey bear]

This forum makes me want to facepalm sometimes

 

you just dont understand

 

 

You should know that by now!

[EgoJoe]

Wilson: When someone doesn't "understand" what you've communicated it's because you have done a bad job communicating. I've said it before whenever I see the "you don't understand" argument I laugh. As far as grey area thinking, yeah, I do it too but I make an active effort to remind myself I am not responsible for anybody else's feelings.

 

I have made all the RIGHT efforts for a "confused girl" and guess what it got me? **** on. It's not confusion it's ego games and posturing. I don't buy the "I don't know how I feel" crap because it's easy to know how you feel...you simply feel it and act accordingly.

 

OP: She's yanking the reigns any way she can...do you want to let her call any shots after all the crap she's done? Ignore her until you get your head right.

[MarMarMar]

Smokey you're awesome but please read the whole thread before you go rebutting/agreeing with/or disagreeing with posts that have been already elaborated on ect. The OP doesn't want to talk to his ex at all right now because he knows it's easy for her to twist his words around and drag him into all the drama.

[MarMarMar]

Also people don't always act or react how you think they will Wilsonx. Nothing is set in stone. Sometimes it's better to just not act or react to something because frankly none of us know what his ex is feeling, she might be genuine at the moment, it might not last, she might be playing games ect. Bottom line is regardless of how she feels about headsashed she is fickle because she is immature that doesn't make her evil or psycho but it does make her behavior hurtful to the OP and sometimes it's best to just step back and do nothing to gain some perspective if action will get you nowhere or go against you.

[smokey bear]

Oh I have already. Geegirl is my best friend on this site and she says I am a black and white thinker. The thing here is Wilson, I don't think this (our opinions on this thread) is black and white thinking. 'Grey' thinkers use this in an argument. It's a lazy form of arguing. I don't agree with you, which means you are a black and white thinker. Just cause you say it, don't make it true..

 

 

It is black and white thinking, only seeing right and a wrong, the grey matter Wilson is pushing is to look at all angles, noone read his first post for what it was. They read what they wanted to read.

[smokey bear]

Glad to see I'm not just being a crazy rambler haha. The gray thinking in this topic for me is the forgive the one that hurt you but also forgive yourself or something.

 

 

No black and white thinking, aka tunnel vision, grey, thinking outside the box.

 

Its got nothing to do with forgiving, hurting or anything like that, its about looking at the situation from every possible angle rather than just seeing just the one angle, that she is reaching out cause she thinks she's losing him.

[smokey bear]

Smokey you're awesome but please read the whole thread before you go rebutting/agreeing with/or disagreeing with posts that have been already elaborated on ect. The OP doesn't want to talk to his ex at all right now because he knows it's easy for her to twist his words around and drag him into all the drama.

 

 

I can read through all the bullsht, the OP wants this girl back.

 

I dont need to read the whole post, but i have.

 

Nobody has given the correct meaning of black and white thinking, not even Wilsons link although he does understand what it means, he posted a bum link, everyone else i have seen comment on this post does not understand the correct meaning of black and white thinking that Wilson is talking about.

 

I stand by my opinion that Wilsons advice was spot on even though the OP has not listened to a single word anyone has advised. He will do what he wants, he is one of those posters that doesnt heed. No offence

[wilsonx]

I can read through all the bullsht, the OP wants this girl back.

 

Nice! I didnt say it but I saw it =)