New guy versus giving the ex another chance

[ScienceGal]

He and I broke up 5 weeks ago, after dating for 3 months. He decided that I have 'boundary issues' and it makes him uncomfortable that I don't draw the line with people (specifically men). I translated this to him projecting his insecurities onto me. I never lied or cheated, and I never intended to treat him any less than the best. This was his issue. He even admitted it, and said that I hadn't done anything wrong. We ended on good terms and I moved on.

 

A few weeks ago I met a guy through a mutual friend. After hanging out several times in a group, he invited me over to watch a movie. We basically talked the entire time with the 'getting to know you' type questions. I spent New Year's Eve with him too. Again, casual conversation. We spent the night together at his friend's vacant apartment because we were out of town (nothing physical, not even kissing). I'm fairly confident he is interested in me, and I am interested in spending more time with him, but there is a problem... he is married (gasp!). The marriage is to a friend of his and was done years ago due to circumstance, not due to love or commitment. In fact; she was out with us on NYE with her boyfriend. I asked him why he hasn't gotten a divorce and what he wants in his life. I commented that if he wants to find a real relationship, being married (regardless of the explanation) would deter women, including me, from pursuing a relationship with him. He said I made him think of a lot of things he hadn't considered. I was several martinis in, so I am sure I was my straight-forward self and I didn't hold back with questions. I've since heard he is looking into filing for divorce asap. Seems like a mess, I know.

 

While I was out with him on NYE I receive a message from the guy that broke up with me 5 weeks ago, "Happy New Year SG, you have been on my mind a lot lately, I miss you and would like to see you again. If you're up for getting together, let me know". I didn't respond until the following evening. I agreed, and we're meeting up Thursday. I am not sure what I will do if he says he wants me back. I'm certainly not going to jump at it. I'll need time to hear him out and reflect on what he has to say.

 

I am working up a list of pros and cons for each guy, based upon the kind of relationship that I want. I always try to make the best decision with the information that I have, but I definitely feel as though I haven't given the new guy much time yet. I have more questions I'd like answers to.

Would the marriage issue scare you? Should I even consider dating him? And what about the ex? How would you go into this discussion (we're meeting for a beer in public)?

 

Any thoughts are appreciated. When it rains, it pours!

[BoredAgain]

Don't force yourself into a false dilemma. You don't have to choose either of these guys. As I'm sure you know, there are plenty more out there for you to meet. But to answer your questions...

 

The new guy - Yeah, the marriage thing sounds a bit irksome. have you've verified his story with the wife (and other friends of theirs)? If not, you should get on that. I'm betting some guys in open marriages will weave that sort of tale. After all, I find it really hard to believe that he simply "hadn't thought" about how his faux marriage would deter other women. Either way, proceed with caution.

 

The Ex - If a relationship can't last more than a few months, I find it really hard to believe that a long-term reconciliation is possible. After all, the first 1-2 years is supposed to be the honeymoon phase where you're likely to ignore flaws and problems... if your relationship doesn't survive that phase, what will happen after it fades?

[choppedkittens]

The new guy sounds weird. You made him think of a lot of things he hadn't considered? Either he's lying or not very bright.

[ScienceGal]

Don't force yourself into a false dilemma. You don't have to choose either of these guys. As I'm sure you know, there are plenty more out there for you to meet. But to answer your questions...

 

The new guy - Yeah, the marriage thing sounds a bit irksome. have you've verified his story with the wife (and other friends of theirs)? If not, you should get on that. I'm betting some guys in open marriages will weave that sort of tale. After all, I find it really hard to believe that he simply "hadn't thought" about how his faux marriage would deter other women. Either way, proceed with caution.

 

The Ex - If a relationship can't last more than a few months, I find it really hard to believe that a long-term reconciliation is possible. After all, the first 1-2 years is supposed to be the honeymoon phase where you're likely to ignore flaws and problems... if your relationship doesn't survive that phase, what will happen after it fades?

I actually met this guy through a mutual friend who I've known for over 10 years. It might even be that he has low self esteem, or maybe that he doesn't have finding a relationship high on his priority list. I'm assuming he doesn't tell dates about the marriage upfront. My friend told me in front of him, and he turned a little red. And, I'm honestly not sure how much he has dated. I just don't know. I'm going to ask him questions te next time we hang out alone.

 

The ex was hurt and manipulated in his lash relationship. I was the first woman he gave it another go with. It's possible he just got spooked by the idea of opening up and facing his insecurities. He's in therapy for this, which I think is a good thing. I don't want to be in an ongoing losing battle though...

And you're right, no false dilemmas. I'll just take it easy and try to get as muć information as I can from both of them.

Edited January 3, 2012 by ScienceGal

[ScienceGal]

The new guy sounds weird. You made him think of a lot of things he hadn't considered? Either he's lying or not very bright.

 

I was leaning towards the lying thing. Because... the plot thickens actually. He was dating the 'wife' but they broke up because she wanted an open relationship (he didn't). They remained friends and they actually live together with one of her boyfriends and a couple other people. He has his own side of the house, but still weird right? He seems like a really nice guy though. My honest opinion thus far is that he seems to be someone who goes with the flow and is easily controlled/walked over. I accept I could be wrong though.

[ScienceGal]

I got this message from the new guy today, "I wanted to thank you for making me realize it's time to take care of that marriage. NY resolution: get a divorce. Step 1 get papers... Done. :)". I was out tonight for a normal weekly gathering of friends and saw him. We hugged goodbye, which was the first time we've touched at all. We made plans to watch a movie tomorrow, alone. I need to figure out what his angle is. I'm certain he likes me, but I'm not necessarily sure he knows what he wants in a relationship/life. That's what I'll be asking him tomorrow.

[wilsonx]

You do what you think is right sciencegal...

 

But if these are your two options... I think you can do better darling.

[norajane]

Don't force yourself into a false dilemma. You don't have to choose either of these guys. As I'm sure you know, there are plenty more out there for you to meet.

 

And some time away from dating wouldn't hurt any of you.

 

You could give some thought to the boundaries issue, because it probably has a ring of truth to it if you are seriously considering involving yourself with a guy who is just now, after all this time, deciding to get a divorce while still living with his wife that he was, er, dating in an open relationship. Do you see how messy that is? Do you see how unprepared he is for a relationship right now? Why would you step into that? Let him sort himself out before you think about going there.

 

And it wouldn't hurt for your ex to take a bit more time in therapy to heal his wounds from his last relationship before trying to dive in with you again. Yes, maybe he just got spooked and that's ok, but, at the same time, more time processing his issues with his therapist can only be a good thing so he doesn't spook so easily. Besides, you can't give him the reassurance he would want - that you aren't interested in anyone else, only him. You ARE interested in someone else.

 

So, yeah, it might be good to step back from the ledge for a while.

[leoc1973]

I agree with wilson you can do better! the thing that always drives me nuts about women is the pros and cons list. The question should be do either of these guys give you butterflies? Can you not wait to see on of them? If not then just keep looking. Is your biological clock ticking that fast that you need to pick either of them now? Go out have fun the old people that say you just know when its right seem to know about this sort of thing. Find a guy that you don't even care about a pros and cons list cause you can't think of anything else but him.

 

This guy number 2 it sounds like you are going to get yourself into a whole world of hurt! Open marriages what does this mean that the wife is out banging everything that walks? I am sure he has had unproteted sex with her there are too many things floating around these days to be dealing with things like that.

 

Now that I think about it my ex used to tell me that on paper I am not that great but in reality I was the best man ever. I guess that I really got dumped for a pros and cons list. Not another man. lmao!!

[betterdeal]

So the guy who thinks you have boundary issues and therefore broke up with you got lonely on NYE and wants you to, erm, disregard your boundaries and re-engage with him? I see a certain irony in this, don't you?

 

As for the other guy, he's at the start of the journey you, I, others have been taking. You gave him the inspiration, which is a wonderful gift, but it doesn't mean you owe him anything.

 

But is it a surprise that so many men find you attractive? Must be those boundaries, courage, self-worth and straight talking...

[leoc1973]

I don't know better deal if this new guy was actually dating his ex then he is either still in love with her or just sleeping with her. I think his only journey is to get laid. I think that SG is gonna get hurt with this guy.. Still married and dating his ex might even just be using SG to get her jealous. Steer clear too much baggage right now with this guy.

 

And the old guy. 3 month relationship and already broken up? isn't that supposed to be the honeymoon stage where you can't get enough of someone? Not breaking up with them.

[betterdeal]

leoc1973, I didn't suggest she dates him or anything. Taking it at face value, him seeking divorce and thinking about things is the start of his journey. He could be Hitler's ghost, but why waste energy dealing with hypotheticals when what you have already is enough to step back and let him get on with his journey while you get on with yours?

[ScienceGal]

Thank you for the responses. I know this seems a bit confusing, and I appreciate the advice.

 

The new guy does seem to be at the beginning of a journey; in fact, I was looking at him and thinking that exact thing last night. He seems sweet and kind, but also stationary and unsure. I am a straight-talker, but I am not dominant or a hand-holder. I can't believe I, as someone who has known him for 3 weeks, prompted him to get divorce papers. I'm good, but I'm not that good! . As for the wife, she was there last night with 2 of her boyfriends (yes, weird). I don't believe that he has been sexual with her for 5+ years. Their relationship ended because she wanted it to be open, and then they married as friends (for money reasons). He moved into a large house with her and several others a few weeks ago because he lost his roomate and it was a quick fix. I don't think it's a permanent move. This topic will be discussed tonight because I deserve to have a better understanding of it (if he expects to keep seeing me). Lastly, I do not believe he just wants sex. He hasn't even made a move, not even when we were alone sharing a bed on NYE. Heck, last night was the first time he hugged me!

 

And, the ex. Who knows what he "misses". My companionship? Sex? Maybe he was just lonely and desperate. It is ironic that he texted me, and a little inconsiderate too. I had asked him to not text/email ever again, but to call if he wanted to communicate. But, I'm willing to hear him out. As of right now, he seems a little too self-serving, which is ok since he is on his path to recovery. It's just not ok to drag me along with him. He does seem much more aware of what he wants and the work that needs to be done to get there. Our communication was great, perhaps a little too great. We both held back emotionally, and when I wanted to push forward and let my guard down, that's when he left. It was suppose to be the honeymoon phase. Instead, it was a bit of a let down.

 

I felt something for the last guy and I wanted to see where it would lead. I see potential in the new guy, but I need more information. Maybe it is hormone related (tick tock?). I do know that I'm through the roof with sexual drive, and maybe that's why I am considering both of these guys as potential mates. And, no one is perfect, so how long am I really going to search? I don't feel I am standing on a ledge though, more like I am at a fork in the road. Two paths for each of them, and a third path alone. I just hope I can handle both of these situations with clarity and fairness, to myself and both of them. I am aware that I am giving both of them the benefit of the doubt (I tend to always do this). After seeing each of them tonight and tomorrow, I will have this weekend to reflect. I'll be back with details from both conversations. Thanks

Edited January 4, 2012 by ScienceGal

[betterdeal]

Ah, so new guy is a cuckold and unhappy with it. Were you the inspiration for his change? Sure, although more down to being the last straw on the camel's back than some preternatural skill.

 

Enjoy the attention, and be true to yourself.

[moontiger]

A married guy vs. one who has issues and dumped you?

 

SG, surely you can do better than that.

[carhill]

NY resolution: get a divorce. Step 1 get papers... Done.

 

What's the docket/case summary number so you can check the filing at the courthouse?

 

'Getting papers' means nothing. I can print those off the Cali self-help web site. Takes sixty seconds.

 

My vote is 'none of the above'

[ScienceGal]

I didn't get any information from 'married' guy. We watched tv and I was sitting there thinking how platonic it seemed. Again, no play for anything physical on either of our parts. He also referred to me in a text as 'lady friend'. I've never known how to take that term. It seems he might genuinely just want to be friends, or he is too scared to make any sort of move. Either way, any heavy conversation seemed out of place. I was tempted to ask "so, are you interested in being just friends, or more?" But, I realized I didn't want to answer that question myself, so I didn't ask. We hugged goodbye and he told me to let him know when I'd like to hang out again.

[moontiger]

I didn't get any information from 'married' guy. We watched tv and I was sitting there thinking how platonic it seemed. Again, no play for anything physical on either of our parts. He also referred to me in a text as 'lady friend'. I've never known how to take that term. It seems he might genuinely just want to be friends, or he is too scared to make any sort of move. Either way, any heavy conversation seemed out of place. I was tempted to ask "so, are you interested in being just friends, or more?" But, I realized I didn't want to answer that question myself, so I didn't ask. We hugged goodbye and he told me to let him know when I'd like to hang out again.

 

SG, is it possible that you (maybe subconsciously) look for "interesting" people, and challenging relationships, and think normal guys are boring?

 

I say that as I myself am guilty of it. Until now, I was looking for people who were...unique, who didn't fit in, who were crazy and colorful and intense. The problem was that the "different" I found was the wrong kind of different. All of my friends always said "wow, that guy sounds weird" within five minutes. Somehow, I just didn't see it; I was so attracted to their...intensity, for want of a better word.

 

Take a step back, and ask yourself--what would you advise a friend who told you she was interested in a wholesome relationship and marriage, and felt her time was limited--but then began circling a guy who was legally married and still hanging out with his "wife" who had other boyfriends?

 

You'd say that if she wanted to get married, she had to stay away from stuff like that.

 

Every person on this thread (at least the last time I looked at it) has given you the same advice; you deserve better than either of these guys. Love is always a risk, but it is a calculated one; there is investing time and emotion in something with a high probability of working and there is investing time and emotion in some high-risk situation that you can see is totally screwed up from the beginning. The first, sometimes it fails and you can't avoid it. The second, if you get into it--well...I'm reminded of an old fable:

 

Once there was a girl who saw a snake in the forest, and the snake begged her "please pick me up and keep me warm; I won't bite." The girl felt bad for the snake, so she picked it up and put it in her coat. Then the snake did what snakes often do: It stuck its fangs in her.

 

So the girl falls down dying and says to the snake "but you said you wouldn't bite!"

 

And as the snake slithers off, he looks back at her and says "you knew what I was when you picked me up."

 

Don't be that girl.

[ScienceGal]

SG, is it possible that you (maybe subconsciously) look for "interesting" people, and challenging relationships, and think normal guys are boring?

 

I say that as I myself am guilty of it. Until now, I was looking for people who were...unique, who didn't fit in, who were crazy and colorful and intense. The problem was that the "different" I found was the wrong kind of different. All of my friends always said "wow, that guy sounds weird" within five minutes. Somehow, I just didn't see it; I was so attracted to their...intensity, for want of a better word.

 

Take a step back, and ask yourself--what would you advise a friend who told you she was interested in a wholesome relationship and marriage, and felt her time was limited--but then began circling a guy who was legally married and still hanging out with his "wife" who had other boyfriends?

 

You'd say that if she wanted to get married, she had to stay away from stuff like that.

 

Every person on this thread (at least the last time I looked at it) has given you the same advice; you deserve better than either of these guys. Love is always a risk, but it is a calculated one; there is investing time and emotion in something with a high probability of working and there is investing time and emotion in some high-risk situation that you can see is totally screwed up from the beginning. The first, sometimes it fails and you can't avoid it. The second, if you get into it--well...I'm reminded of an old fable:

 

Once there was a girl who saw a snake in the forest, and the snake begged her "please pick me up and keep me warm; I won't bite." The girl felt bad for the snake, so she picked it up and put it in her coat. Then the snake did what snakes often do: It stuck its fangs in her.

 

So the girl falls down dying and says to the snake "but you said you wouldn't bite!"

 

And as the snake slithers off, he looks back at her and says "you knew what I was when you picked me up."

 

Don't be that girl.

 

I am hearing your advice, I really am. But, I am feeling something different.

 

With the 'married' guy, he isn't that "interesting". He's sweet. It's obvious he's been bulldozed into this ridiculous predicament. Or, he got in it, and never saw the importance of getting out. He deserves to find someone great to be with. He seems like a wonderful person. He laid it on a bit thicker today with me, I got a "wish you were here" message followed by several others throughout the day. So, even though he hasn't physically expressed it, I see that he is interested. If I were 25, I would gobble him up in a heartbeat. But, I'm not. I don't have time to wait while someone develops and grows, at least not in this sense. I need someone who is ready to be with me.

 

Ex-new guy... good lord, did he look good tonight. And, what he told me was everything I thought he might but secretly hoped he wouldn't. That he had overreacted. He was uncomfortable with the 'boundaries' issue, but saw his reaction was really due to what he went through with his ex. He wished he had been more receptive to what I had said back then. He realizes he should have trusted me and worked through things, but he just wasn't in a place to do that. He came into the meeting tonight fully knowing that he had worked through and realized everything I told him 5 weeks ago. He was kind and open to anything I had to say. He said he went on one date and all he could think about was me and our connection/communication. He was beyond sincere. He is still on his 'path', but is it so far from mine? I don't think so. It ended well and I plan to see him again to talk more.

 

I feel that with 'married' guy I would be re-hashing relationships I've had before. I'd be dominant, and sometimes mother-like. I don't want that. With ex-new guy, not only does he have a defined image of himself and what he wants, but we get along on a non-sexual level. We laugh and connect. We have the same long term goals. I want that. So, I'm pursuing that. I might regret it, but he honestly seems like the best man I have dated in a very long time. I'm going to sleep on it, since I've worked 35 hours in the past 3 days and am completely mentally exhausted. But, I am happy right now and I am glad I met with him.

[betterdeal]

Aw, I feel sorry for the abused guy. Not that it's your place to help him, or get involved. He needs help, friends, and space.

[leoc1973]

I actually am starting to like the new guy more and more. One little game I play with women(sorry but I am being honest) is that when I am with them I do not make any kind of move at all especially with a girl that has been hurt or used. This usually throws them into a sexual frenzy! I always get the "you are not like other guys" or the "I feel like I can trust you" ugh women so simple! LOL I am kidding I swear! But I actually do believe in taking things slow and it seems to have an exact opposite reaction from women. Maybe he is playing this with you. It doesn't mean he is a bad guy maybe he is truly afraid of being hurt.

 

It does seem like you really might have 2 great guys. Different but good guys.

 

The girl I started seeing right after my long term relationship was married and her husband supposedly hadn't been around for 4 months. All of the sudden he started coming around and she gave me the "I just feel so bad for him he is so pathetic" so she let him sleep on the couch. She told me she loved me and she had gotten her divorce papers. Then she completely disappeared. I am sitting there AGAIN completely abandoned. 3 weeks later she pops up on facebook I told her I don't understand. She then told me she was pregnant(not mine) sooo. I might be a little touchy about that "I am going through a divorce" thing.

 

I think this new guy will come around and just cause a guy is a "nice guy" doesn't mean he isn't an animal sexually.

[ScienceGal]

Aw, I feel sorry for the abused guy. Not that it's your place to help him, or get involved. He needs help, friends, and space.

 

I feel bad too. And now, well... I feel kind of stuck an unsure of what to do. I'm all nerved up right now. Getting back with the ex makes me nervous because he could up and leave any time he feels like it. But, I think the bulk of my anxiety is because I have this new guy around and I am afraid of hurting him and of making a mistake. I wish someone could show me what's down both roads that way I could make the right decision.

 

I actually am starting to like the new guy more and more. One little game I play with women(sorry but I am being honest) is that when I am with them I do not make any kind of move at all especially with a girl that has been hurt or used. This usually throws them into a sexual frenzy! I always get the "you are not like other guys" or the "I feel like I can trust you" ugh women so simple! LOL I am kidding I swear! But I actually do believe in taking things slow and it seems to have an exact opposite reaction from women. Maybe he is playing this with you. It doesn't mean he is a bad guy maybe he is truly afraid of being hurt.

 

It does seem like you really might have 2 great guys. Different but good guys.

 

The girl I started seeing right after my long term relationship was married and her husband supposedly hadn't been around for 4 months. All of the sudden he started coming around and she gave me the "I just feel so bad for him he is so pathetic" so she let him sleep on the couch. She told me she loved me and she had gotten her divorce papers. Then she completely disappeared. I am sitting there AGAIN completely abandoned. 3 weeks later she pops up on facebook I told her I don't understand. She then told me she was pregnant(not mine) sooo. I might be a little touchy about that "I am going through a divorce" thing.

 

I think this new guy will come around and just cause a guy is a "nice guy" doesn't mean he isn't an animal sexually.

 

If I put my emotions aside and think about what I want in the next 5 years (marriage, house, kids), it seems like the new guy is very far from that. He is in a job that he dislikes, has a degree that he isn't using, and doesn't know what he wants to do for work in the future. And he is married and living with 'wife' and company. I think it's great that he is taking the first step and working towards getting a divorce, but as carhill stated above, getting papers is no tough feat. And, how did he just realize now that he shouldn't be married anymore? Seems a little suspicious. I also don't know the inner workings of that relationship, or when (dare I say if) he stopped being intimate with her.

 

So, what do I do with the new guy? At this moment we are just friends. There has been nothing physically or verbally exchanged between us beyond a 'friend' level. Do I tell him that I am getting small vibes he is interested, but that I can only offer him friendship right now? Do I tell him I am dating someone else? Do I say nothing and let him figure it out (I don't like this idea)? What would you want me to do if it was you?

Edited January 6, 2012 by ScienceGal

[betterdeal]

Ideally, I'd like to be straight with him in a way that gives him ample room to not be embarrassed.

 

So telling him what you want from your relationship with him and not telling him what you suspect he wants from it, in other words. If you want a platonic friendship, say so. "Just to be clear, I see you as a platonic friend. Is that okay with you?" and for Heaven's sake, stick to it for his and your own sake.

[ScienceGal]

I feel like I am doing something awful and sneaky. I know I'm not, but I feel like I have a knot in my chest.

 

I'm meeting with ex-new guy in a couple hours. 'Married' guy wants to hang out tomorrow and invited me to a gathering tomorrow night. God, why is this so difficult!? Why can't I just choose and be good with it? I've never had to choose between two people before. This is so awful. And thanks, betterdeal. Of course I can't ask married guy what he's thinking, only to say, "oh, you are interested in me? Well, sorry... I am dating someone else now". Sh*t!!!

 

I'm not going to be able to decide. My younger self would go into sabotage mode and see which guy would stick around. Worst idea ever, I know. So, I'll likely not do anything until I am forced to. Such indecision will likely f*ck everything up though, possibly with both of them. I am so nervous.

 

I realize I am being neurotic.

[ScienceGal]

'Married' guy invited me out to his place for a gathering with friends on Saturday. I went, with every intention of having the "so we're just friends, is that ok with you?" talk. And then... I nick a rock wall and ruin a tire on my way there. I make it to his house, but I have never changed a tire (I know, I know...). So there we are, in the freezing cold and he is changing out my tire. His pants are wet and dirty, as are his hands. And he is incredibly nice about everything. So, I couldn't say it. I just couldn't. And, he filed for divorce today. (He didn't tell me this, he posted it on Facebook).

 

I'm seeing the ex briefly on Thursday and he has suggested he would like to spend time together this weekend. There has been no decision made about that or about "us", but I obviously need to make one, and soon.

 

How do I make the right decision? I'm scared. At this point, the fact that married guy has no clue what he wants to do for work scares me. He doesn't have as much 'drive' as my ex, who is involved in the community and focused on figuring out his future. But, married guy seems like he'd be sweet to me no matter what, and I can't imagine him ever accusing me of having boundary issues. Perhaps this is an issue of emotional stability versus financial? ugh.

 

Again, no interest has been verbally expressed from married guy to me. And, nothing physical has happened with either of them (I won't allow it until things are decided).

Edited January 10, 2012 by ScienceGal