Have men become spineless in approaching women?

[kiss_andmakeup]

Save for a couple old ladies (whom I did talk to) and the flight attendants, nearly every woman I encountered today was either yelling into a cell phone or texting madly on her small handheld electronic device.

 

As a 20-something, and therefore an implicit member of the cellular generation, let me apologize on behalf of my age/gender subset and say that this behaviour also drives me MAD.

 

I can't stand being at a shop and having to overhear someone's personal drama-riddled conversation with their "BFF" for 20 minutes straight. Can't it wait 'til you get home?! Yeesh. Talking on the phone while checking out at the register? Are you serious?!

 

And the people who text while they're walking, whether in shopping malls or out and about, and can't see where they're going and practically run you over...argh! And forget an "excuse me" or "pardon me" or "I'm sorry" when they actually do run into you...they just keep walking, self-absorbed in their bubble, like it never happened.

 

But then again, this is coming from the girl who apologizes when someone runs into me.

Edited January 4, 2012 by kiss_andmakeup

[carhill]

For balance, so were the men. Oh, the irony that I read Steve Jobs' biography cover to cover this past weekend. TBH, I think this quantum change in society has something to do with the OP's perception, in that people in general aren't directly interacting as much. We read about it all the time on LS. Banging away on a Droid/iPhone isn't the same as looking someone in the eye. Do it enough and the latter becomes an alien and disconcerting excursion.

[jobaba]

I'm not bashing men or anything so please hear me out, thank u! Just this past Saturday night I was at a NYE party with friends & really hooked my self up, looking my best with the right eyeliner, nice-fitting dress with the nicest form-fitting top. I was even guilty of leaving a few buttons open by the chest area

 

But all the men at the party did was look & look away. And whenever I'd get close to one of them, let's say to pass them or something, they would literally freak out like spill their drink or completely avoid eye contact with me & its starting to get depressing

 

I dont always run from my house dressed to the 9s but I do look nice & presentable but men these days seem so "spineless" to make a move. I'm gonna go out on a limb here & admit that I made a move once on a guy at the supermarket by asking him about trying this new cherrios cereal but it didn't pay off because I couldn't even get eye contact from him when he spoke to me & his voice went up & down every 2 seconds

 

I went out on a limb again yesterday coming home from work with a cute guy on the LIRR who sat one row behind me. I knew he was interested in me because he couldn't stop clearing his throat and glancing at me so I went ahead & made a move by asking if the train stopped at so & so but he lost his voice when trying to explain himself. I knew he was nervous.

 

I'm getting tired of waiting around for the "right" guy to approach so I do try to initiate but it isn't working. If I do nothing, only lowlife types try to hit on me at every turn, yuck!

 

Am I doing something wrong here people? I'm 35, still perfectly fit & pretty but I'm not getting any younger. My sister tells me to try the dating sites but it usually has a rep of getting sleazies on there only looking for sex.

 

So tell me what's happening to you guys? Why no more courting & only a bunch of stares & freaking out when you see a lady you're attracted to? I am really starting to worry about you

 

It sounds to me like men are hitting on you in public. You just don't find THOSE men attractive. Surprise, surprise.

 

Good looking men do cold approach above average to average women in public places. I have stories about this. But it's a crapshoot that it will happen to you, assuming you are average to above...

 

However, I do guarantee that if you continue to wear that low cut top and throw yourself more aggressively at 'cute guys' at bars, something will eventually come of it. I guarantee it...

[Shaun-Dro]

As a 20-something, and therefore an implicit member of the cellular generation, let me apologize on behalf of my age/gender subset and say that this behaviour also drives me MAD.

 

I can't stand being at a shop and having to overhear someone's personal drama-riddled conversation with their "BFF" for 20 minutes straight. Can't it wait 'til you get home?! Yeesh. Talking on the phone while checking out at the register? Are you serious?!

 

And the people who text while they're walking, whether in shopping malls or out and about, and can't see where they're going and practically run you over...argh! And forget an "excuse me" or "pardon me" or "I'm sorry" when they actually do run into you...they just keep walking, self-absorbed in their bubble, like it never happened.

 

But then again, this is coming from the girl who apologizes when someone runs into me.

 

This kind of behavior has made many men not even bother approaching a woman they might be attracted to, among other issues. The texting/cell phone thing has gotten too far out of hand. It's one of the reasons men and women can't get it together. Facebook is another downer.

[kiss_andmakeup]

I have an anecdote that pertains to this thread, that happened today actually...

 

I was at a local new & used game/comic store today, purchasing a new video game (because, yes, I'm a huge dork). The guy at the counter was probably in his late-30's, had on a dork-tastic (I do mean this as a compliment) super-hero shirt, was slightly overweight and slightly balding, but incredibly friendly and helpful in assisting me in my pursuit of this particular game. He kept trying to make quick small talk but messing up his words (ex: I think he meant to say, "Are you enjoying your day today?" but instead said "You are enjoying yourself, and er, your day, today?"). I was smiling and returning his friendly chit chat while he was fetching my game and ringing me up; and I couldn't help but feel that he was genuinely *surprised* that I was simply extending him basic human courtesy: returning his chit-chat, smiling, thanking him for his help.

 

Scenarios like this remind me that decent-looking girls my age are pretty much expected to be self-absorbed snobs who won't even so much as look at someone who doesn't meet their physical or social-status "ideal".

 

I love when I'm presented with opportunities to break this stereotype, like today at the gaming store.

 

I guess my point is that when you're an attractive woman like the OP, you have to work extra hard to shed the preconceived notion that you're a snob or an "entitled" princess. Men expect this attitude from attractive women, and it's sad, but it's up to us women to change it. :]

Edited January 4, 2012 by kiss_andmakeup

[SJC2008]

We need more women like you kissandmakeup. A an attractive woman (early-mid 20's) I helped at work yesterday made a horrible comment. She had some work done at another store and I needed to call them to clarify something. She did not remember the persons name who helped her so i asked her to desribe him. Instead of saying heavy set/ fairly large man she discribed him as fat and disgusting. Horrible, down right fing mean. Gee I wonder why average men are inimidated by attractive women??? Now I know there's always the exception to the rule but the stigma has to start somehow.

[Shaun-Dro]

I have an anecdote that pertains to this thread, that happened today actually...

 

I was at a local new & used game/comic store today, purchasing a new video game (because, yes, I'm a huge dork). The guy at the counter was probably in his late-30's, had on a dork-tastic (I do mean this as a compliment) super-hero shirt, was slightly overweight and slightly balding, but incredibly friendly and helpful in assisting me in my pursuit of this particular game. He kept trying to make quick small talk but messing up his words (ex: I think he meant to say, "Are you enjoying your day today?" but instead said "You are enjoying yourself, and er, your day, today?"). I was smiling and returning his friendly chit chat while he was fetching my game and ringing me up; and I couldn't help but feel that he was genuinely *surprised* that I was simply extending him basic human courtesy: returning his chit-chat, smiling, thanking him for his help.

 

Scenarios like this remind me that decent-looking girls my age are pretty much expected to be self-absorbed snobs who won't even so much as look at someone who doesn't meet their physical or social-status "ideal".

 

I love when I'm presented with opportunities to break this stereotype, like today at the gaming store.

 

I guess my point is that when you're an attractive woman like the OP, you have to work extra hard to shed the preconceived notion that you're a snob or an "entitled" princess. Men expect this attitude from attractive women, and it's sad, but it's up to us women to change it. :]

 

You're absolutely correct in this belief, but realistically, how many women are going to consider changing what's so deeply ingrained?

 

The OP doesn't strike me as a snob at all. I just get the feeling that she's interested in men a little out of her league and not bothering with the men that are more average-looking, who may be checking her out from afar.

 

She is, after all, past 30, so the physical standards has to drop eventually or retire to a convent.

[jobaba]

Scenarios like this remind me that decent-looking girls my age are pretty much expected to be self-absorbed snobs who won't even so much as look at someone who doesn't meet their physical or social-status "ideal".

 

Hmm. Kinda...

 

I've met many very attractive women at work, school, and in public that were very kind and friendly. That doesn't mean they would go out with me though.

 

I've also met traditionally unattractive women who as you say, "wouldn't even so much look at me."

 

A woman I work with who is easily the most attractive in the office (and taken) also happens to be the friendliest. Perhaps it is because she is so happy with her life. She'd make sure she spoke to me like every day. Again, that doesn't mean she was interested. And the fact that she was attractive didn't mean I was interested either...

[musemaj11]

Maybe dress down a little bit. Men get nervous sexually a lot easier than women due to higher testosterone.

[musemaj11]

Scenarios like this remind me that decent-looking girls my age are pretty much expected to be self-absorbed snobs who won't even so much as look at someone who doesn't meet their physical or social-status "ideal".

 

I love when I'm presented with opportunities to break this stereotype, like today at the gaming store.

 

I guess my point is that when you're an attractive woman like the OP, you have to work extra hard to shed the preconceived notion that you're a snob or an "entitled" princess. Men expect this attitude from attractive women, and it's sad, but it's up to us women to change it. :]

And decent looking confident guys are expected to be jerks as well. But just all sterotypes, there is indeed some truth in it.

[counterman]

I've met some really attractive girls that I was genuinely surprised at because they were really friendly and down to earth. However, the majority I have met have this inflated ego, a self-entitled attitude amongst them ; it is such a turn off. An example was when I was introduced to this girl who's a friend of a friend. I introduced myself and she thought I was hitting on her; she rolled her eyes and gave me this disgusted, I'm-too-good-for-you look and was really reluctant to say anything. I've seen her around dozens of times but never spoke to her again. This hasn't stopped me from approaching girls I'm attracted to though. Once I see any slightest indication of self-entitlement or her being a bitch, I'm moving on.

[Sanman]

Definitely agree with some of the comments here. When I was single, I can't tell you how many women I would have liked to approach on the LIRR, subway, starbucks, etc that had their ipod headphones jacked in and were texting away. Add to that the fact that some women love to blow things out of proportion (I have been accused of hitting on women for extending them common courtesy and being helpful, I have been accused of stalking a by an attractive female classmate because my car was parked outside her place for a day until I pointed out one of our mutual friends/classmates lived across the street and I had crashed at his place, and on and on). Plenty of women love assert their rights to wear low cut tops and ask questions of men without having to be hit on that many men have stopped trying. If you give a female co-worker a compliment or (god forbid) flirt a little, you may end up on the wrong side of a sexual harassment claim then on a date. With many women worried that every guy is a rapist/stalker and technology causing so many to live in a bubble, I just found it easier to online date or stick to bars for such things. A real shame actually.

[Andy_K]

How old are the guys you're going after?

 

Speaking as a 28 year old, I wouldn't approach a 35 year old no matter how hot she was. I might even check her out a few times if she's wearing something revealing, but that's all. Much as she might be fun to date, I simply wouldn't see it going anywhere. If she did the approaching I might test the water to find out what she's looking for, but again, I wouldn't make the same effort I might with someone younger

[Emilia]

The older lady sitting next to me waiting for my last flight looked so serene whilst reading her book (an actual real paper book) that I wanted to bottle her up and take her home just so I could remember what real women were like. She even said 'please' (may I sit here) and 'thank you'.

 

You should move to England

[Emilia]

I'm not bashing men or anything so please hear me out, thank u! Just this past Saturday night I was at a NYE party with friends & really hooked my self up, looking my best with the right eyeliner, nice-fitting dress with the nicest form-fitting top. I was even guilty of leaving a few buttons open by the chest area

 

But all the men at the party did was look & look away. And whenever I'd get close to one of them, let's say to pass them or something, they would literally freak out like spill their drink or completely avoid eye contact with me & its starting to get depressing

 

I dont always run from my house dressed to the 9s but I do look nice & presentable but men these days seem so "spineless" to make a move. I'm gonna go out on a limb here & admit that I made a move once on a guy at the supermarket by asking him about trying this new cherrios cereal but it didn't pay off because I couldn't even get eye contact from him when he spoke to me & his voice went up & down every 2 seconds

 

I went out on a limb again yesterday coming home from work with a cute guy on the LIRR who sat one row behind me. I knew he was interested in me because he couldn't stop clearing his throat and glancing at me so I went ahead & made a move by asking if the train stopped at so & so but he lost his voice when trying to explain himself. I knew he was nervous.

 

I'm getting tired of waiting around for the "right" guy to approach so I do try to initiate but it isn't working. If I do nothing, only lowlife types try to hit on me at every turn, yuck!

 

Am I doing something wrong here people? I'm 35, still perfectly fit & pretty but I'm not getting any younger. My sister tells me to try the dating sites but it usually has a rep of getting sleazies on there only looking for sex.

 

So tell me what's happening to you guys? Why no more courting & only a bunch of stares & freaking out when you see a lady you're attracted to? I am really starting to worry about you

 

It's what Feeling Frisky said and also it's the unexpected suddenness that catches people unawares. I think widening your social group is the best way to meet men rather than talking to strangers.

[oaks]

I'm not bashing men or anything so please hear me out, thank u! Just this past Saturday night I was at a NYE party with friends & really hooked my self up, looking my best with the right eyeliner, nice-fitting dress with the nicest form-fitting top. I was even guilty of leaving a few buttons open by the chest area

 

But all the men at the party did was look & look away. And whenever I'd get close to one of them, let's say to pass them or something, they would literally freak out like spill their drink or completely avoid eye contact with me & its starting to get depressing

 

I'm going to assume that this is either exaggeration on your part, or that they were drunk. It was NYE, afterall.

[Wolf18]

I have an anecdote that pertains to this thread, that happened today actually...

 

I was at a local new & used game/comic store today, purchasing a new video game (because, yes, I'm a huge dork). The guy at the counter was probably in his late-30's, had on a dork-tastic (I do mean this as a compliment) super-hero shirt, was slightly overweight and slightly balding, but incredibly friendly and helpful in assisting me in my pursuit of this particular game. He kept trying to make quick small talk but messing up his words (ex: I think he meant to say, "Are you enjoying your day today?" but instead said "You are enjoying yourself, and er, your day, today?"). I was smiling and returning his friendly chit chat while he was fetching my game and ringing me up; and I couldn't help but feel that he was genuinely *surprised* that I was simply extending him basic human courtesy: returning his chit-chat, smiling, thanking him for his help.

 

Scenarios like this remind me that decent-looking girls my age are pretty much expected to be self-absorbed snobs who won't even so much as look at someone who doesn't meet their physical or social-status "ideal".

 

I love when I'm presented with opportunities to break this stereotype, like today at the gaming store.

 

I guess my point is that when you're an attractive woman like the OP, you have to work extra hard to shed the preconceived notion that you're a snob or an "entitled" princess. Men expect this attitude from attractive women, and it's sad, but it's up to us women to change it. :]

 

 

While it is refreshing to find a girl who isn't a complete bitch, and you probably did make that goof asses day, I personally wouldn't care since you probably (the "you" is general, I don't know who you are) wouldn't date me anyway.

 

Showing basic kindness and compassion is not going the extra mile, it's what should be expected of people. But to be honest , if a girl is nice or not to me makes very little difference if she wouldn't go out with me because of my looks anyway.

[irc333]

Well, for a lot of men it is difficult to approach women simply because we have this irrational fear of being shut down and humiliated by the women we approached.

True....and I know some women who have complained about certain men they had no attraction to, appraoching them. They didn't appreciate the fact he had the confidence to come over.

 

More so, they've even said, "That guy thinks HE can talk to ME?? What nerve"

 

Basically, the guy should've known better that he was very unattractive physically, and he should've known better NOT to approach a beautiful women like her.

 

YES there ARE miserable women like this.

 

My female friend, decided for the FIRST time to bring her lady co-workers into our social circle to an event. Turns out they,t hey were snobbish to ALL her male friends.....and took her aside and said, "Sorry, we're going to bail, we're going to <name high end bar in high end city> and find any guys there" and giggled and left.

 

She apologized for them.

 

After a few experiences at BEING humiliated, it's no wonder men have just stopped completely.

[irc333]

First of all, he was probably was in shock and awe at even seeing a woman as attractive as you are at a COMIC SHOP? What are the chances, right? lol

 

(That you in your avatar?)

 

I wonder how many guys at the Magic the Gathering table got distracted? LOL

 

 

 

 

I have an anecdote that pertains to this thread, that happened today actually...

 

I was at a local new & used game/comic store today, purchasing a new video game (because, yes, I'm a huge dork). The guy at the counter was probably in his late-30's, had on a dork-tastic (I do mean this as a compliment) super-hero shirt, was slightly overweight and slightly balding, but incredibly friendly and helpful in assisting me in my pursuit of this particular game. He kept trying to make quick small talk but messing up his words (ex: I think he meant to say, "Are you enjoying your day today?" but instead said "You are enjoying yourself, and er, your day, today?"). I was smiling and returning his friendly chit chat while he was fetching my game and ringing me up; and I couldn't help but feel that he was genuinely *surprised* that I was simply extending him basic human courtesy: returning his chit-chat, smiling, thanking him for his help.

 

Scenarios like this remind me that decent-looking girls my age are pretty much expected to be self-absorbed snobs who won't even so much as look at someone who doesn't meet their physical or social-status "ideal".

 

I love when I'm presented with opportunities to break this stereotype, like today at the gaming store.

 

I guess my point is that when you're an attractive woman like the OP, you have to work extra hard to shed the preconceived notion that you're a snob or an "entitled" princess. Men expect this attitude from attractive women, and it's sad, but it's up to us women to change it. :]

[PlumPrincess]

A while ago a guy told me that the women here are so unfriendly and stuck up when you approach them in a bar and that American women were so much more open when you try to talk to them.

 

I was in California for a couple of months when I was in my mid-twenties and I remember guys chatting me up more than here. I even had a 15 year old kid trying to flirt with me.

[phineas]

For balance, so were the men. Oh, the irony that I read Steve Jobs' biography cover to cover this past weekend. TBH, I think this quantum change in society has something to do with the OP's perception, in that people in general aren't directly interacting as much. We read about it all the time on LS. Banging away on a Droid/iPhone isn't the same as looking someone in the eye. Do it enough and the latter becomes an alien and disconcerting excursion.

 

Hence why I avoid talking on the phone with women & txting & insist on face-to-face communication.

 

To be honest, I can judge a woman's interest by how much she messes with her phone while talking to me.

 

Or how rude she is.

 

Good point on the cell phone also, I won't waste my time trying to talk to a woman that is clutching her cell phone in one hand & her drink in the other.

 

Of course, OP may not really be as attractive as she thinks. just saying. I meet so many semi-attractive women that think their mini-rock stars because some hot guy took them home from the bar once or dated her for a few months before dumping her & moving onto the next conquest.

 

They are eternally single because they turn down every guy who doesn't meet the hot guys level of looks & then claim they don't meet anyone.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

I hardly ever use my cellphone. I even have an old flip phone that I've had for years now that I just use to make calls. And I don't get approached a heck of a lot either. I am no beauty queen but I am far from ugly either. While American men where never as flirt as European men, I do think American men use to try more before all this technology started taking off then I see now. Not just with myself but from my friends and conversations with other women. My mom's friend is European and has commented on how unreceptive and uptight American men are (her words, not mine), how they don't flirt and it makes things boring. I am not saying it's all men's fault because American women can be the same way and not be too friendly as well.

 

I think today people don't socialize like they use to. Everyone is on Facebook or on their cellphones and running to this place or that place in a hurry and no one really knows (especially the younger genderations) how to really socially interact with people outside the electronic sphere. I don't think men or women put in the effort to socialize like they should in public. People seem more rude they they use to be and more self involved. Or like other says, everyone is pretending they are so "busy" by doing all kinds of nonsense on their cellphone. While I think cellphones nad technology have many positives, I think are country is overly addicted to them and it is taking away from society for the worse more then the better. What do kids to today? Do you see then playing outside? Sometimes but a lot of the time they are playing video games, on Facebook or other computer stuff.

[kiss_andmakeup]

Showing basic kindness and compassion is not going the extra mile, it's what should be expected of people.

 

Note that in my post I described my behaviour as "basic human courtesy," not going the extra mile. I have a boyfriend so I'm not looking for one, I was simply treating the guy like a human being. Never implied I was going the "extra mile."

 

What I was implying though, was that since the OP is looking for a boyfriend, she does need to take it a step beyond what I described in my experience and "go the extra mile."

[carhill]

You should move to England

Thanks. TBH, I've never spent more than a couple weeks there at a time so don't really know the culture, but am open to potentials. So far, of the places I've traveled where English is the common language, I've found Aussie women to generally be the friendliest and most open to approaches. I never acted on any of that since I was married during most of the visits but did note it.

 

I think widening your social group is the best way to meet men rather than talking to strangers.

 

I agree, and that goes both ways. While some great friendships have resulted from 'talking to strangers' in my travels, the logistics of meeting potential romantic partners within or from one's social circle has more traction IMO and IME. That said, my historical partners have all resulted from 'stranger' meetings. Perhaps that, and the results, generally unhealthy, are instructional, IDK.

 

Another positive aspect of meeting potentials within or facilitated by one's social circle is that the potential has been generally vetted as to relationship status. With strangers, it's always an unknown, even if asked and answered. That got me into a lot of trouble when younger, as some people do lie about their relationship status. I would say that issue has, absent other factors, deteriorated my spine somewhat, but that is totally my responsibility. I let it.

[Woggle]

I have an anecdote that pertains to this thread, that happened today actually...

 

I was at a local new & used game/comic store today, purchasing a new video game (because, yes, I'm a huge dork). The guy at the counter was probably in his late-30's, had on a dork-tastic (I do mean this as a compliment) super-hero shirt, was slightly overweight and slightly balding, but incredibly friendly and helpful in assisting me in my pursuit of this particular game. He kept trying to make quick small talk but messing up his words (ex: I think he meant to say, "Are you enjoying your day today?" but instead said "You are enjoying yourself, and er, your day, today?"). I was smiling and returning his friendly chit chat while he was fetching my game and ringing me up; and I couldn't help but feel that he was genuinely *surprised* that I was simply extending him basic human courtesy: returning his chit-chat, smiling, thanking him for his help.

 

Scenarios like this remind me that decent-looking girls my age are pretty much expected to be self-absorbed snobs who won't even so much as look at someone who doesn't meet their physical or social-status "ideal".

 

I love when I'm presented with opportunities to break this stereotype, like today at the gaming store.

 

I guess my point is that when you're an attractive woman like the OP, you have to work extra hard to shed the preconceived notion that you're a snob or an "entitled" princess. Men expect this attitude from attractive women, and it's sad, but it's up to us women to change it. :]

 

Wow. I agree with this but it is rare to hear a woman put some of the responsibility on her gender for the current state of affairs. Both genders contribute to how bad things are.

 

You also hear all the time how even smiling at a woman constitutes street harassment so men are afraid. I can show you a number of feminist blogs who think men should just act like women are not there in public.