kaylan Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Im gonna repeat some things I said in another thread about this topic. Stop rushing things! This is why I feel a lot of the time that people who "fall in love" in their 30s are not really in love. Some seem to have your mindset of forcing things along because they really want a family right then and now. How convienent that all of a sudden, at 30, now people are rushing love and marriage. But what sometimes happens later? Unhappy marriage, cheating, fighting, divorce, or other drama. Why? Because they didnt take the time to actually get to know their spouse or truly see if they loved them and werent just settling or blinded by the honey moon phase. It takes time to see if someone really clicks with you in a way that can be for life. This is what I talking about in an old thread of mine...whether "love" is a product of time running out. Real love is not forced. And the sure way to lose a guy is to pressure him to commit. Personally I couldnt see myself marrying someone I have not dated for 3 years. Thatd be 2 years or so dating, and then a year living together and being engaged. After that I want to be married a year before having kids. Married life is very different from dating and living together. I always hear that it changes the relationship, so being shacked up a year before kids seems smart. Plus you can actually enjoy married life for a little bit before worrying about taking care of little ones. OP, let the marriage happen naturally. Get married because you found the RIGHT PERSON, not because it feels like the RIGHT TIME. Because if you only do it because time dictates it to you, you could end up one of those folks who married the WRONG PERSON...and well...thats no fun. Link to post Share on other sites
oaks Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I think you need to reset the clock to whenever you last got back together if you're measuring things like "it's been x months why hasn't he proposed to me yet?" - Marriage really needs a stable relationship as the base. But, good luck! ES, I've just seen your thread from mid December over in the Rants forum. You need to reset your clock to last time you were convinced things were going to end and you didn't think it was worth continuing... so, about 3 weeks ago. Why would you want to get married when, just 3 weeks ago, you felt like that? The answer to "why hasn't he proposed yet?" is in that thread, where you report that he said that he can't stand the monthly fights. I wonder if you need to have a mutual "this isn't going to work, and we both know it" conversation. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Eternal Sunshine Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 We had a mutual "this is working in all the important ways" conversation. He played amateur psychologist and nailed lot of my issues. We are both sticking with this relationship till "the end" whatever "the end" may be. We have had many problems but have successfully resolved all of them. Sometimes I think that's a better test than couple who never argues. I am someone who is temperamental and feisty so I doubt any relationship with me would be smooth sailing. Link to post Share on other sites
oaks Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 We had a mutual "this is working in all the important ways" conversation. He played amateur psychologist and nailed lot of my issues. We are both sticking with this relationship till "the end" whatever "the end" may be. We have had many problems but have successfully resolved all of them. Sometimes I think that's a better test than couple who never argues. I am someone who is temperamental and feisty so I doubt any relationship with me would be smooth sailing. That bit that I highlighted is a good point - I haven't had an argument with my gf yet (although it's only been a couple of months) so I have no idea how that will go when we eventually have a disagreement. You're able to argue and fall out and then get back together which is great. But... have you really resolved all of the problems? Why do you have monthly fights and frequent thoughts about ending the relationship? Or are you both accepting that those things are normal and going to continue? Is that a stable place from which to expect him to propose? The good news is that he clearly loves you very much, because he puts up with your crazy. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I agree with the 12-18 months timeframe, but also agree that it MUST be 12-18 months of STABLE relationship. Since you broke up spectacularly and got back together in August, August of 2012 would be the soonest I'd start worrying about a ring. I am someone who is temperamental and feisty so I doubt any relationship with me would be smooth sailing. You can be feisty and have a stable relationship. How would you define a stable relationship? How would he? To me, a stable relationship is one where, when problems come up, we work through them without any consideration of breaking up over it. Link to post Share on other sites
Kamille Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I agree with the 12-18 months timeframe, but also agree that it MUST be 12-18 months of STABLE relationship. Since you broke up spectacularly and got back together in August, August of 2012 would be the soonest I'd start worrying about a ring. Agree. ES, as long as you love this man, I recommend you take pre-emptive break ups out as an option when dealing with conflict. Even if he doesn't know you're considering it, thinking about breaking up clearly amps the drama for you. It means that you approach conflict in your relationship with an all or nothing mode of thinking. It's okay to have conflict. All couples have conflict. How you handle conflict is what makes or breaks a couple. So resolution 2012: as long as you genuinely want to be in the relationship, you will face issues without thinking that pre-emptive breaking up is an option. That means you will face issues as a partner in this relationship. Instead of looking for signs that *whatever he said or did or didn't say or do* is a sign that he is *wasting your time*, you will strive to find solutions to the issue at hand. Got it? Link to post Share on other sites
Disenchantedly Yours Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I'd give it a few more months but if he is still pulling you along on a leash when what you really want is marriage (making neither of you wrong but just wanting different things), it's time to break up and find a man that has like-minded goals. Link to post Share on other sites
zengirl Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 There may be exceptions, but I think -- almost universally -- that when men look to marry they look for stability and strength from that relationship, which to them means a low drama factor. So, I would agree with those -- and what you alluded to him saying yourself, ES -- that there's just no way this guy would think about marriage until the drama has settled down and you two have been happy, stable, and going strong for a good long while. That doesn't mean "no conflict" --- conflict itself doesn't scare most men away, especially not if they love you. Conflict is normal, natural, and a simply fact of life. The issue in your relationship has been the way you two handle conflict and the extremes that has caused, including breakups (which, I agree with oaks, completely re-set the clock). I also think many men are worried that they will marry a woman who is more in love with getting married than with him; that's a common male fear (not as universal as the idea above, but common), and a reasonable one, I'd say, especially when someone is asking the questions you're asking. It becomes a bit of a Catch-22 (or a Catch-38 as SATC said ): when you want a good marriage, I think maybe you have to be willing to give up marriage for the right man in order to actually wind up getting what you want. If you focus solely on the idea of marriage, sure, you can probably get married, but to who? To someone who doesn't care that the idea is more important than him. That said, it's not as though you're wrong for having anxiety; I just think it's unproductive to look at it this way. I would suggest you look at whether you are happy with this man and whether he could make you happy long-term and how you can strengthen the relationship, which will then either lead to some realizations that you're not to be and lessons that would lead you to the right place OR a happy ending that you want. Either way is a win. (Though, to be fair, I'm only 27 and married, so perhaps my thoughts don't count.) Link to post Share on other sites
jobaba Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Lately, all my friends are getting engaged. Couple have been with their bfs around 7 months or less. There is something super romantic about men just being sure after such a short period of time. I feel like different rules apply for women over 30 as they can't afford to waste years. Me and bf have been together for 11 months and had a round about talk about marriage. He wants marriage and kids in the future. He is just not ready right now. He can afford not to be. He is 30 and there is still plenty of time for him. He actually told me that he loves me and wants to be with me for a long time but committing to rest of his life right now is scary. Yet he says that he is commited to me and is "all in". He also says that he can not imagine his life without me. A bit contradictory but whatevs. He did tell me that if I were to get pregnant by accident, he would want us to have the baby. I accept his answer at this point in time. I am just wondering about general thoughts on how long to wait and when it becomes futile. Can a man really not be sure after 11 months if you were the one? This is what I don't understand about women and 'love'. True, I'm a bleeding heart liberal and I believe marriage between two men is just as strong as marriage between a transvestite and a eunuch if the 'love' is there, but... If you are sure he is the one... Why not propose to him? I guarantee you will not be the first woman on the face of the Earth to do it and if he wavers or says no, you can be out of there and have the rest of 2012 to find your matching 23 chromosomes... Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Then get pregnant since he's willing to have a baby with you but too afraid to get married. Problem solved. I was jawdropping post after post while reading this thread, until this one showed me all you people probably were on skype setting this jokethread up and fool us all. Good one all, you nearly had me:D Link to post Share on other sites
Oxy Moronovich Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Why not propose to him? I guarantee you will not be the first woman on the face of the Earth to do it and if he wavers or says no, you can be out of there and have the rest of 2012 to find your matching 23 chromosomes... A woman proposing to a man is always a bad idea. Since men are naturally skeptical about marriage, it tends to turn us off when a woman proposes something so definite as marriage. Marriages where the woman proposed are usually failures. Personally, I've liked many women I've dated enough to think about marriage with them. But if they had proposed marriage I would have been turned off and started looking for someone else. Men should do the proposing. That's one thing in the relationship game I think should always be up to the man. Link to post Share on other sites
serial muse Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 For what it's worth, I was with my guy more than 4 years before we got engaged (got married this year). I'm 40. I wouldn't necessarily recommend waiting that long, but we had our own issues, now resolved. Anyway, I don't think you should read anything into where you are now; I think it's reasonable that he would want a period of stability before taking that step - and that doesn't mean no fights, but I think it absolutely does mean no fights where someone threatens to leave the relationship. Oaks has a good point about "resetting the clock" when that happens; it isn't really fair to think "well, we've been together 11 months now" when much of that time has been turmoil or even split up. A period of stability - perhaps 6-12 months - when no one has one foot out the door (or makes such a threat) would be the real test, I think. Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 This is what I don't understand about women and 'love'. True, I'm a bleeding heart liberal and I believe marriage between two men is just as strong as marriage between a transvestite and a eunuch if the 'love' is there, but... If you are sure he is the one... Why not propose to him? I guarantee you will not be the first woman on the face of the Earth to do it and if he wavers or says no, you can be out of there and have the rest of 2012 to find your matching 23 chromosomes... IME many men do not respond terribly well to a proposal by the woman. Men are raised to believe that they should be the one proposing - so if the man isn't proposing, chances are he isn't ready, because if he was, he would have asked. Also, the general rule is that women tend to be ready for marriage earlier than men, and men tend to be ready for sex earlier than women. This is why couples usually have sex once the woman is ready, and marry once the man is ready. I do agree that this societal norm does kinda suck, though. The mother's age matters more than the father's in conceiving a healthy baby, so women usually feel more pressured by time to marry and start a family. On the other hand, the onus of the proposal falls on men, but they are the ones who are typically not in a rush. This leads to some sort of discrepancy, and is also probably why some women favour older men. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I am a woman who "proposed" (no romantic proposal or ring, but I was the one to say "let's get married" and we did). But I was the one slower to commit at the time. If you are holding out for a romantic proposal and a ring (as most women are), wait for him to propose. But, in the meantime, have open and honest conversations about your marriage desires. Let him know that YOU are sure he is the one--with both your words and your actions. If you know he is the one, that isn't something that will waver when you are in the middle of a fight. If it does waver when arguing, then he will naturally wonder--is she really ready to commit? Marriage DOES NOT solve relationship problems. In many ways, it magnifies them. If he is smart, he'll won't propose unless and until the relationship is stable for a good 12 months. Link to post Share on other sites
make me believe Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 In a stable, healthy relationship I wouldn't be comfortable with "I don't know" after 11 months. If it's been almost a year and you guys live together... what else does he need to know about you to be sure? BUT as others have pointed out, your relationship is unstable & full of drama, so it's more understandable that he's hesitant even though it's been almost a year. Regardless, I would stop making all of these future plans with him until he knows he's sure about you. What's the point in talking about "your kids" or going so far as to plan how you will live off of his salary, etc, if he's not sure he wants to marry you? I got married at 28, after knowing my husband for about a year & a half. He proposed after a year, but we had been discussing marriage for our entire relationship. (First in general terms, then specifically pertaining to the two of us.) It happened naturally, without any angst or drama, and I think that's how it should go in a good relationship. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Huh, do people really marry after just a year or two? Most of the people I know who are married, did so after at least 4 years or so together. Some have been together for 6 or more, and still don't feel ready to marry yet - not because they aren't sure about one another, but because they don't have the other parts of their life in order yet (work, university, etc). Granted, most of the people I know are in their mid to late twenties. Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 It changes when one gets older, has more life experience and is confident about what they want and where they're going in life. 'Older' can be a flexible term, as people journey their life paths in differing ways and on differing timelines. Most women I've known in my 30's-up who want to get married want to it to progress to that in a year or two. If the relationship has enough bumps to cause a loss of confidence in that timeline, they leave. It's not their path. That sounds reasonable to me. As a marriage-centric man, I feel similarly. Either one is on that path or they are not. Link to post Share on other sites
PinkInTheLimo Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Why oh why can't you just go with the flow and let this relationship have its own dynamic. I mean, you just moved in with him, this should be the most wonderful time of your relationship, the time when you really get to know each other and enjoy each other. And you are spoiling it by already getting all worked up about a possible proposal!!! Each relationship has its own dynamic, there are no general rules for how long you should be together, live together,... Marriage in itself should not be a goal, what counts is the quality of the relationship. I think you have to praise yourself lucky that this guy is still with you! Just put yourself in his shoes for once. How would you feel if your guy would treat you like you treat him? How would you feel if your boyfriend comes to an internetforum and tells people how slow you are because it took you 6 months to buy a car... DJEEZES! Link to post Share on other sites
LexiB Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Huh, do people really marry after just a year or two? Most of the people I know who are married, did so after at least 4 years or so together. Some have been together for 6 or more, and still don't feel ready to marry yet - not because they aren't sure about one another, but because they don't have the other parts of their life in order yet (work, university, etc). Granted, most of the people I know are in their mid to late twenties. And therein lies the difference. Most of the people you know in these 4+ year relationships started dating in their early twenties -a ludicrous age to get married for a number of reasons. At 30, people tend to have their sh*t together or together enough where marriage is a real possibility. I'm only 27 and even now I wouldn't want to wait more than 1-2 years for a proposal. :-/ Link to post Share on other sites
EnigmaticClarity Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 In a stable, healthy relationship I wouldn't be comfortable with "I don't know" after 11 months. If it's been almost a year and you guys live together... what else does he need to know about you to be sure? That she's not going to continue creating drama. I don't know what the drama's about--I'm guessing the OP has described it in other threads because I couldn't find what they were referring to in this one--but her situation sounds like a mirror image of my current relationship. We've been going out 11 months, she's 35 and wants a kid, everything's great except that every week or three she gets very negative (freaks out) about relatively minor issues. I can't commit with that much freaking out the first year. It only gets worse as time goes on and the "honeymoon" fades to varying degrees depending upon the individuals and their outlooks on life. Link to post Share on other sites
PinkInTheLimo Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 In a stable, healthy relationship I wouldn't be comfortable with "I don't know" after 11 months. You said: a "stable, healthy relationship" They are nowhere at that as long as Eternal Sunshine is behaving like a nutcase. I think the guy wants to be sure that a couple of months before a major crisis are possible. Does not look good. Link to post Share on other sites
zengirl Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Huh, do people really marry after just a year or two? Most of the people I know who are married, did so after at least 4 years or so together. Some have been together for 6 or more, and still don't feel ready to marry yet - not because they aren't sure about one another, but because they don't have the other parts of their life in order yet (work, university, etc). Granted, most of the people I know are in their mid to late twenties. I think some depends on your age. If you met before or in university, I think it's common (and very smart!) to wait that long, mainly because you don't know who you want to be/what you want your life to be well enough to really fully commit yourself to someone else. I know people who waited a decade, and people who got married within a year of knowing each other. I would've never imagined I would get married so quickly, but I have known my husband less than a year. The thing is, I know myself really well, so I was comfortable not only saying yes when he proposed but saying, "Let's just take care of the paperwork," a few weeks later (we didn't have a proper wedding event yet). But if I were 22, I'd never feel that way. So, I think the OP is right in saying age plays a role, but I'd prefer it play a more positive role -- I think relationships move faster as you get older because you know yourself, what you need, and your life better, not because you're more re-productively desperate. Link to post Share on other sites
mitchell Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 However, he always says "I want to be with you for a long, long time" rather than "I want to be with you forever". This distinction is important This quote strikes me as a very bizarre statement which I find quite telling. While he is into you now, he clearly has doubts about the long term viability of your relationship. The notion that he would like to be with you for a "long" time is an unnatural turn of the phrase. Most would find "forever" to be a more appropriate descriptor. He's afraid of all of your drama and instability. After 11 months, he's seen highs and lows. He is justifiably uncertain. Link to post Share on other sites
choppedkittens Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) Huh, do people really marry after just a year or two? Most of the people I know who are married, did so after at least 4 years or so together. Some have been together for 6 or more, and still don't feel ready to marry yet - not because they aren't sure about one another, but because they don't have the other parts of their life in order yet (work, university, etc). Granted, most of the people I know are in their mid to late twenties. I agree with this kinda, although I think four to six years is a long time to wait unless you met before or during college. But a lot of people don't get married until their careers and lives are established. People in their thirties have their lives much more together so they can afford to move faster. I have one friend who has been with her boyfriend for ten years since she was 18 (first guy she ever kissed). Neither feels ready yet. That's weird to me. Edited January 4, 2012 by choppedkittens Link to post Share on other sites
choppedkittens Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 My gut is that he will propose to you eventually IF your relationship stabilizes. That said, I have doubts about whether you should even stay with him given that you've expressed feelings that you may be settling often. Link to post Share on other sites
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