Oxy Moronovich Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I read Allina's post after I posted mine, so I deleted my initial response. I agree with Allina. A man will be reluctant to marry a woman if they have problems since day one, even before marriage. Pre-marital drama is a big no-no if you want to marry the guy. You broke up twice, you had lots of drama? You won't last even if you get married. The problems never disappear after the wedding day - they tend to get worse, especially when kids come. Why do you want to bring kids into the drama? Because her clock is ticking. One thing I've learned: when a woman becomes desperate for kids, she won't think rationally. Sometimes it seems like she'll choose any available guy. And in many cases, the men these desperate women choose are the types of guys they would reject in a heartbeat when they didn't want kids and/or had more options. Link to post Share on other sites
mesmerized Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Fair point--I googled again and couldn't find any consistent findings attached to just how great a risk a man's age really is. I suppose I'll dismiss it as well until I see something more definite. Men's age has been related to autism and Schizophrenia (something like 5 or 7 times more likely to happen if the father is old). Too late now but I will provide links to medical research later. Link to post Share on other sites
GildedLily Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I had to reply when I saw this mentioned. My boyfriend is older (over 45) and although he is a successful MD he hasn't been married or even engaged or even lived with a girl. Why? his mother (who died 2 yrs ago) NEVER APPROVED of anyone he dated; she always told him she wanted him to get married but would get in his ear about every girl he got close to! Girls did try to win his mom over but it was like she set her opinion and didn't change it. The one girl she did like had been 20 yrs ago and it was only because she was the same crazy religion as her. This girl wasn't even that into my boyfriend. I believe his mom sabotaged all of his efforts to find someone quite selfishly IMO. I met him 6 mths ago and he already seems to be hinting at us getting more serious. I don't believe he would be going there if his mom was alive. Link to post Share on other sites
Ariadne Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 They initially liked me a lot but have spent 10 days at our place over holidays. Hi, Just think that this just happened and things are very fresh in their memories and hopefully the whole thing will fade. I'd say not to make a big deal with this. The most important thing you need to do is to show his mother that you really care for him and want to make him happy. Living together is not easy and 10 days is a long time to get in each other's nerves since you have different customs. Eventually you'll get to know each other more deeply and hopefully they will accept you as you are. (Try not to say bad words or comments about his parents at any time, this may hunt you). Link to post Share on other sites
Ariadne Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 He actually told me that he loves me and wants to be with me for a long time but committing to rest of his life right now is scary. Yet he says that he is commited to me and is "all in". He also says that he can not imagine his life without me. Overall I think this is the best match for you so far. The guys you dated before were a disaster and same for him, I don't think he'll find a better match. Hopefully he'll want to start a family and move forward. Good luck there, at least you are living together and he seems committed. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Eternal Sunshine Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 I talked to him a bit tonight. He told me that me and him are a circle. That only the two of us will decide who we will let into our circle. If parents want to come in the circle, they can but they will have to at least attempt to be supportive of our relationship. He said that he is not asking me to win his mom over, just be pleasant and engaging when she is around. Hopefully she will get to know me better and be able to see what he sees. As for marriage, his only issue is really the drama. He would want to bring up children in a safe and stable environment. He also said that he has seen some improvements in me and that it's enough to give him hope that we will be able to work through our issues and get there in the end Link to post Share on other sites
Untouchable_Fire Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I talked to him a bit tonight. He told me that me and him are a circle. That only the two of us will decide who we will let into our circle. If parents want to come in the circle, they can but they will have to at least attempt to be supportive of our relationship. He said that he is not asking me to win his mom over, just be pleasant and engaging when she is around. Hopefully she will get to know me better and be able to see what he sees. As for marriage, his only issue is really the drama. He would want to bring up children in a safe and stable environment. He also said that he has seen some improvements in me and that it's enough to give him hope that we will be able to work through our issues and get there in the end I don't think it's fair to either him or you to expect the drama to suddenly vanish. It's just simply part of you. Your like a drama Jedi. In regards to his parents.... My parents didn't like my xWife. Sad to say sometimes they have a 6th sense about these things. Since your parents are in agreement... I'd probably throw in the towel soon. Link to post Share on other sites
vsmini Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Personally, I wouldn't want to get engaged to anyone without at least having dated them in stable conditions for a solid year. If communication was open and he had expressed that he wanted a future with me then I wouldn't worry about how long it would take as I would expect him to get to it eventually. Of course many men claim they want marriage and then wait around for years to do it - I wouldn't wait for that. Once the guy has mentioned it or you guys have had a talk that marriage is what you both want I wouldn't give the guy more than a year...because honestly...what is he waiting for? Link to post Share on other sites
Kamille Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I talked to him a bit tonight. He told me that me and him are a circle. That only the two of us will decide who we will let into our circle. If parents want to come in the circle, they can but they will have to at least attempt to be supportive of our relationship. He said that he is not asking me to win his mom over, just be pleasant and engaging when she is around. Hopefully she will get to know me better and be able to see what he sees. As for marriage, his only issue is really the drama. He would want to bring up children in a safe and stable environment. He also said that he has seen some improvements in me and that it's enough to give him hope that we will be able to work through our issues and get there in the end See? Talking to him put your mind at ease. All that panicking and talking about "cutting losses" with your mom served no purpose (well, other than feeding your anxiety). Aren't you glad you handled this the non-drama way? I don't think it's fair to either him or you to expect the drama to suddenly vanish. It's just simply part of you. Your like a drama Jedi. I agree that it wouldn't be fair to expect drastic change. ES is demonstrating improvement in regards to how she handles drama. In my book, showing the willingness and capacity to work on something goes a long way. That's how you get to change habits and challenge the cognitive distortions that feed the drama. It sounds like they both improved. Link to post Share on other sites
tigressA Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I agree with your boyfriend, ES, about your relationship stabilizing before you two become engaged. As for the question posed by the thread...I'm 24, but I know women who are right around 30 and most of them say they wouldn't wait for more than a year or two--they also want kids, and they admit that has a lot to do with how long they are willing to wait. The women I know who don't want any(more) kids aren't nearly as concerned with marriage, of if they are, they are willing to wait longer because their biological clock isn't a factor. As for me, I'm not terribly concerned with marriage. I think I would be if I wanted kids. Link to post Share on other sites
Star Gazer Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 As for marriage, his only issue is really the drama. You say this as though it's some little thing, like learning to pick up after yourself or be on time. Your relationship has been non-stop drama since its inception, caused by YOU. He's absolutely right to be concerned about the drama, and feel that the drama must cease and your relationship become stable for an extended period of time before being open to committing his life to you. It's all in your hands, ES. Keep creating and stirring up drama, and you will never marry this man. Link to post Share on other sites
zengirl Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 ES, You always find something to worry about. Anxiety and drama are addictive to you. If you ever want to have a functional marriage with ANYONE, you need to deal with that drama addiction and the propensity towards anxiety. As to the actual issue with his mother--- it's hard to know what the issue really is. It certainly doesn't sound like anyone has taken the "high road" here, except maybe your boyfriend (or his dad, I guess). It sounds like you were crap towards his Mom, and she was crap towards you, and it's hard to know which started which, or whose was 'worse' per se. I think it's mostly just a matter of different styles and personalities; if she liked you at first, and she was trying to tell you stories and such when she tuned out, it doesn't sound to me like she didn't give you a chance (though maybe she didn't; some people don't). Whatever happened between y'all, she's wrong for trying to discourage the relationship, but you're also in the wrong in tuning her out and not being a better hostess, IMO. That's part of what a relationship is: sacrificing for other people, and being a good hostess for a few weeks -- even if you have to grit your teeth about it and put up an exhausting front -- seems like a reasonable sacrifice to me, that you didn't make. Sounds like your BF is trying very hard not to aggravate either of you and make it worse, which is the high road, and the best he could do. If you want a man who is willing to put you above his family automatically, then this isn't the man for you, but he's also not putting them above you since he's still with you and earnestly seems to want everyone to just get along. A good goal. I suppose the issue is whether it's possible or not, but that's unknowable without really knowing his Mom -- which none of us do, and really you and your BF likely have skewed views of this anyway (in different directions, obviously) for emotional reasons. At any rate, there are loads of people who don't get along with their in-laws. They manage to tolerate each other in most cases, and life goes on. Not a huge deal. If his mother leads his relationship, that's a HUGE issue. But it really doesn't sound like that's happening. It does sound like he's also not letting YOU dictate the relationship terms or family terms, but that's fine too. To me, it sounds like he's making his own decisions here. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Eternal Sunshine Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 I am slightly annoyed that bf keeps constantly talking about our future. It's often "when we buy a house together.." or talking about how we want to bring up our kids (what values are important, what our parents did wrong with us and what they did right etc). How natural and right everything feels and where we will live when we retire... It's annoying because he doesn't know if he wants to marry me. I find these talks pointless. I kind of snapped at him yesterday in the middle of a future talk... I told him "Let's just see what happens..". He got slightly sulky and told me that he thinks our relationship is a bit more serious than "let's see what happens..".. and how upset he gets when I seem to regard our relationship as temporary... and yet he seems to be not even close to proposing. Sigh Link to post Share on other sites
anne1707 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I kind of snapped at him yesterday in the middle of a future talk... I told him "Let's just see what happens..". Why do you expect a proposal when you talk to your bf like this? Your actions tell him that there is no future in this relationship. Link to post Share on other sites
norajane Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Why do you expect a proposal when you talk to your bf like this? Your actions tell him that there is no future in this relationship. Agreed. She keeps throwing cold water over every step he takes to bring them closer together, either in the form of drama or doubt. If she keeps it up, he will start to agree with her and will end the relationship. That's what she's waiting for - she seems very uncomfortable moving forward with him in any way as any step forward brings out the worst in her. Link to post Share on other sites
ascendotum Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 and yet he seems to be not even close to proposing. Sigh lol. 'not even close'...how the hell do you measure this? A proposal is not a procedure that takes place over a long period of time, with lots of little steps as part of some ritual. He simply pops the question at the right time...thats it. These comments he is making about your future are all very good indicators I would have thought. Frikken hell, enjoy what should be your happy go lucky, no responsibilities bf/gf years. Link to post Share on other sites
Star Gazer Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Agreed. She keeps throwing cold water over every step he takes to bring them closer together, either in the form of drama or doubt. If she keeps it up, he will start to agree with her and will end the relationship. That's what she's waiting for - she seems very uncomfortable moving forward with him in any way as any step forward brings out the worst in her. I believe she's inconsistent because she just wants to get married, but not necessarily to him. She wants a husband, any husband will do, just a husband who proposes to her on her schedule. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 ... and yet he seems to be not even close to proposing. Sigh He wants to get there. He really does. But you keep pushing him away by doing exactly this stuff. ES, have you just enjoyed a single month of this relationship? Just enjoyed it, without dissecting it, angsting over it, and nagging your bf about it in one way or another? Link to post Share on other sites
norajane Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 What's disturbing to me is that her boyfriend hasn't reassured her that his mother's opinion won't affect his commitment to ES. Actually, he has, as ES explained: I talked to him a bit tonight. He told me that me and him are a circle. That only the two of us will decide who we will let into our circle. If parents want to come in the circle, they can but they will have to at least attempt to be supportive of our relationship. He said that he is not asking me to win his mom over and, apparently, she's over the mom thing and has come up with a new drama to stress about now: I am slightly annoyed that bf keeps constantly talking about our future. It's often "when we buy a house together.." or talking about how we want to bring up our kids (what values are important, what our parents did wrong with us and what they did right etc). How natural and right everything feels and where we will live when we retire... How dare he talk about a future with her! The nerve of him! Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Absolutely she should be paying attention to his personality, and judging for herself if they are compatible. Nevertheless, it is NORMAL to talk about future plans together, and discuss your projected life together, before making a decision to propose. It is lovely, happy conversation for most couples. I simply can not understand how ES finds it annoying, if she wants to share a life with him. It really seems like a temper tantrum because he doesn't want to propose RIGHT NOW!, even though they were broken up just a few months ago Link to post Share on other sites
FitChick Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 ...having married parents prevents millions of children from accessing government aid programs . My cousins had free healthcare, free college, free school lunches... ect because their parents just cohabitated. As the saying goes, "There's no such thing as a free lunch." Those benefits you mentioned were paid for by the taxpayers instead of their parents, who are responsible for them. Married parents would love to get free healthcare and college for their kids but they pay for it or the kids go without. Something to think about next time you look at the amount of money deducted from your paycheck (if you work). Link to post Share on other sites
Author Eternal Sunshine Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 Perhaps we are just a bad match after all. He is extremely sensitive and so am I. A lot of the fights are also started by him over something that I said. Example: he sometimes refers to himself as "fat <his name>". He is obviously not fat so that is ridiculous. I have told him million times that he is not fat and that I love his body. He would even text me: "Fat ---- is starting a barbie :)". I started calling him jokingly "fat __". He loves to eat so I say "Has fat __ had enough food for today?" or something jokingly. Over this weekend he blew up and said that he hates when I call him that and to never do it again. I wanted to deflect the drama and apologized but he kept escalating the mini fight. So he starts "drama" too. Also, he is very intuitive. If I am quiet for even a few minutes, he immediately asks what's wrong? Sometimes it's nothing, sometimes it's something minor that he said that bothered me. If I answer honestly and say that something minor that he said bothered me, he sees it as starting drama. I wish he wouldn't ask me that question in the first place. When I say it's nothing, he keeps probing: "are you sure?" etc etc Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 We can't talk about the boyfriend's personality, shortcomings, or anything. We only see him through the very erratic filter of ES's narrative. When she feels good, he is a wonderful and loving partner. When she is off balance, he is weak, untrustworthy, and other bad stuff. We can only talk about ES's part in all of this, since we "know" only her. Sure, she might be making up stories or misrepresenting herself completely, but what we have to work with is what is shared here about "her." I would not put too much stock in the sudden outburst about the bf's parents. Mere hours before that, she was talking about her commitment to what's between the two of them with no mention whatsoever of this problem. Regarding the parent issue: if it's all just as you depicted it, ES, then either you or your boyfriend are a big jerk. It would be profoundly jerky of him to just decide to tell you, "You know what, ES? My parents don't like you. They think I can do much better. They find you manipulative and self centered." If he didn't just come out with something wretched like this, then maybe YOU were the jerk, needling him about how much you think his mom doesn't like you, and prod and needle him until he blew up. This scenario has happened before, right? We'll probably never know, Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 As the saying goes, "There's no such thing as a free lunch." Those benefits you mentioned were paid for by the taxpayers instead of their parents, who are responsible for them. Married parents would love to get free healthcare and college for their kids but they pay for it or the kids go without. Something to think about next time you look at the amount of money deducted from your paycheck (if you work). Very well said. Being able to mooch free stuff off other hardworking people is possibly the worst reason for not getting married that I have ever seen. Link to post Share on other sites
norajane Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 If I were her I'd just stay calm, try to enjoy the relationship but also WATCH him for awhile without starting anything. I would try to figure out where my ambivalence about him is coming from and whether it's based in realities/incompatibilities I can't handle. By starting arguments, it unfortunately becomes harder for her to judge which issues are hers or his or incompatibilities between them. I agree - she absolutely needs to be considering whether he is right for her. And it's really hard for her to do that when she has so much anxiety about so many things...while at the same time is always feeling a need for more commitment from him. That constant state of turmoil she is in has to subside in order for the drama to subside, I think. ES, what do you believe will change when you are engaged to be married? Link to post Share on other sites
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