Women over 30: how long would you wait for a proposal?

[Janesays]

A year. If he doesn't love me after a year, he doesn't love me.

 

Likewise, if I don't love him after a year, I just don't love him.

 

Either way, time to move on.

[grkBoy]

Sorry ladies, but I won't even fathom popping the question until 2-3 years together. You all might think the guy doesn't love you, or he's avoiding "growing up", but let me give it to you from my viewpoint:

 

1) I graduated college in my mid-20s, and it honestly took me until my mid-30s to finally be really established in a solid career, condo, etc. I graduated into one recession, had a break with the dotcom boom, then was out of work again for several years only to go back at a large paycut and struggle until I finally caught up. I even moved out of my home in my late 20s to only come back home to regroup for five years and save up the down payment.

 

I used to think I was alone or a rarity, but especially now it's more commonplace. College grads aren't landing work easily anymore, and many who do get very low pay and thus can't fully live on it. So all you women who want an "established man" are going to have to really compete to get the few who do well right off the bat.

 

2) I spent most of my 20s and early 30s being rejected and alone. I had a few RLs that didn't last long, but as I've spoken of before, I was the nice guy who was rejected because I was nice (as well as a bland dresser and socially inept in some ways, etc.)

 

Dating never really kicked off for me until my early 30s.

 

3) Too many women wasted their own 20s rejecting guys like me while trying to tame the wrong guys into RLs that never worked out.

 

I mentioned how dating never really kicked off well for me until my early 30s. I believe part of that was now all the women were looking for husbands over hot temporary boyfriends. The problem was how many of those women were royally "damaged" by their past mistakes. Psychological problems, trust issues, daddy issues, children from douchebags who ran out, no college education, no job or career to show for her life, etc.

 

So we men who have been rejected so much now should quickly, openly, and willingly pop the question to all those women who not only didn't see us as "good enough" in their past, but also now have more red flags from those past decisions? Right.

 

4) Divorce laws are still slanted against men. That's a big reason enough to take marriage seriously if you're a man.

 

 

 

I'll be honest, I won't propose to anyone until we've been together for 2-3 years. I've been toyed and burned too many times in my past for me to just pop the question like a fool after 6-12 months of dating, and I see plenty of those who did now divorced to show me I'm right in my thinking.

 

Some women of course will say that no woman will ever be with me by my logic...but look where I'm at now. I didn't propose to my fiance until we were together for 3 years...because I felt it was the right time. If she ever tried a "bling ultimatum" on me, I would have ended it, let her walk, and not look back. I'd happily grow old and die alone before I let someone force me into a scenario I am not comfortable with.

 

I take marriage very seriously...which is why I know I'll be an amazing husband. It's also why I won't propose unless I am sure this is the right woman, and you can't see that after 6-12 months.

 

For all the 30something women who are hit with the baby rabies and see their friends all married off, I ask you..."what have you been doing from age 18 until now?"

 

Were you seeking a decent man to marry while pursuing the education and career? Or "living it up", then realizing there wouldn't be some amazing gentleman waiting for you at age 27?

 

This is why I tell young women not to spend their 20s "living it up" and believing there's plenty of time. Forget the flings and hot guys you claim you'll never marry...find Mr Right, and then go all the way when you get older.

 

I believe there's a lot more men out there like me...ones who are willing to die alone before being forced into marriage when they're not ready.

[TheBigQuestion]

 

I believe there's a lot more men out there like me...ones who are willing to die alone before being forced into marriage when they're not ready.

 

Fantastic post overall, and I especially agree with the above.

 

You need a good solid 2-3 years of being together because it is in between those years that the love chemicals wear off. A couple's true compatibility is not clear until the honeymoon phase is completely over.

 

I like how you also touched on the legal reasons for why men are "afraid of commitment." Thanks to present day matrimonial laws, a man getting married is in many ways signing away his financial freedom. It's a perspective that man women forget when their biological clocks start ticking.

[serial muse]

A year. If he doesn't love me after a year, he doesn't love me.

 

Likewise, if I don't love him after a year, I just don't love him.

 

 

Hm. I agree with this...but, unromantic as it is, I don't necessarily think knowing that you love someone is quite the same thing as wanting/being ready to marry him/her. I think there are people who can genuinely love each other but still not be good for each other long-term, due to conflict.

 

I really do think my personal experience of waiting 4 years, while in my 30s, to get engaged is an outlier, and I certainly don't recommend that as a standard waiting time. In my case, although we knew we loved each other, we both had some serious concerns about whether we'd really be good for each other (based on other baggage).

 

It just happened to take us a while to both work through our stuff. I'm very happy we did, of course.

 

But really, I just want to make the point that it doesn't have to be about love. You can love someone and still have a lot of conflict, and that isn't healthy long-term - it's very destabilizing. So you also have to make a concerted effort to deal with the source of the conflict.

[Janesays]

 

For all the 30something women who are hit with the baby rabies and see their friends all married off, I ask you..."what have you been doing from age 18 until now?"

 

I don't know about anyone else, but I was married. Would have stayed married, too, but ex-hubby got a bad case of GIGS and the rest is history.

 

I believe there's a lot more men out there like me...ones who are willing to die alone before being forced into marriage when they're not ready.

 

I've never 'forced' anyone to marry or propose to me. I'm a small girl....the very thought is laughable! Simple put, if after a year, I didn't see us going anywhere (in that I wasn't in love....or I was in love, but he hadn't popped the question), I just say, "I don't see a future here and I think you're on the same page, so we should call it quits now before we waste more of each other's time."

 

Marriage was never even brought up. I've never given the 'MARRY ME OR ELSE!' speech. That's just silly.

 

I know myself. I'm a girl that likes to build, plan, work towards a future. I don't like to stagnate....with anyone. So if a man isn't willing to build a future with me, that's fine. No hard feelings. But I'm looking for someone like me, who wants to create a life together, not spend years in limbo.

[EnigmaticClarity]

I believe there's a lot more men out there like me...ones who are willing to die alone before being forced into marriage when they're not ready.

 

Agree entirely. Janesays's point that you know if you love the person in a year is valid as she stated it, but marriage is about FAR more than love. I loved my ex and love my current girlfriend, but that doesn't mean I think they're mentally stable and committed enough for their love to last a lifetime.

[TheBigQuestion]

By and large, the responses to this question are going to be (mostly) divided along gender lines. Most men, even those in their 30s, have and will continue to advocate a 2-3 year wait before a marriage proposal. Most women, largely as a result of biological desperation, will want a proposal in a year or less.

[silvermercy]

By and large, the responses to this question are going to be (mostly) divided along gender lines. Most men, even those in their 30s, have and will continue to advocate a 2-3 year wait before a marriage proposal. Most women, largely as a result of biological desperation, will want a proposal in a year or less.

I think they should compromise. 1.5 years average. hehe...

[anne1707]

By and large, the responses to this question are going to be (mostly) divided along gender lines. Most men, even those in their 30s, have and will continue to advocate a 2-3 year wait before a marriage proposal. Most women, largely as a result of biological desperation, will want a proposal in a year or less.

 

You obviously have not read the responses then when by far the majority of women as well as men are saying it is way too soon to consider marriage for this particular relationship. After all, less than a month ago the OP was only posting about how her relationship was "nearing the end".

[grkBoy]

I don't know about anyone else, but I was married. Would have stayed married, too, but ex-hubby got a bad case of GIGS and the rest is history.

 

Sorry to hear that happened to you.

 

I am curious though. How long did you two date before getting engaged?

 

 

I know myself. I'm a girl that likes to build, plan, work towards a future. I don't like to stagnate....with anyone. So if a man isn't willing to build a future with me, that's fine. No hard feelings. But I'm looking for someone like me, who wants to create a life together, not spend years in limbo.

 

I understand. In all honesty, 2 years is fine in my book. I just think it's ridiculous when I see women say 6-9 months is ideal and anything longer isn't.

 

I met a girl once who seriously wanted a proposal out of a man in 6-9 months, then married in a year, then after the honeymoon and settling in they start a family. Basically she wanted to be married and expecting a child within 2-3 years of meeting a guy.

 

She evaded and scapegoated on when I asked the "what if" questions.

[OliveOyl]

It's good to wait for the "love chemicals" to wear off somewhat, but I don't think there's any magic timeframe. It will differ for each individual. For me personally, I would (and did) know whether I want to marry someone within a year. I knew within about 2-4 months of dating my ex that he was "the one" although we waited until the year mark to get engaged, and had a lovely wedding six months later. He was the one for that time in my life, even though the marriage didn't last a lifetime (I personally don't believe marriages need to last a lifetime to be considered "successful" but that's another topic.)

 

Now I have been seeing my BF for 9 months and I feel this relationship is going to last a very long time (again, it's hard for me to definitively state "forever" or "lifetime" but I prefer not to think so absolutely). Marriage isn't so important to me because I've already had kids, etc. but if I were marriage-minded, I would definitely know within a year.

[TheBigQuestion]

You obviously have not read the responses then when by far the majority of women as well as men are saying it is way too soon to consider marriage for this particular relationship. After all, less than a month ago the OP was only posting about how her relationship was "nearing the end".

 

About this particular relationship, sure. But relationships in which the woman is in her 30s generally speaking? Not so clear.

[anne1707]

As Olive said, for some people they do know within a year (after all, I did with my H). However that was based on a relationship that was stable, healthy and balanced. It and us grew together without extreme situations, bust-ups, break-ups, soul-destroying arguments in the middle of the night....

 

I am not saying we never argued but we worked through that in a mature way and learnt from any mistakes made. We considered each other's needs instead of expecting one to completely yield to the other. That is what is so unhealthy about ES's relationship in that she comes running to LS at the slightest hiccup (usually when her bf has failed to read her mind) and making a complete drama out of it.

[Janesays]

Sorry to hear that happened to you.

 

I am curious though. How long did you two date before getting engaged?

 

1 year of dating. Another year of being engaged. 8 years of marriage. 10 years total.

 

I understand. In all honesty, 2 years is fine in my book. I just think it's ridiculous when I see women say 6-9 months is ideal and anything longer isn't.

 

I wouldn't take a proposal after 6 months all that seriously, to be honest. I would assume the guy is fickle.

 

Basically she wanted to be married and expecting a child within 2-3 years of meeting a guy.

 

Eh, I don't know about THAT. I would want a couple of years just enjoying my husband, doing some traveling, etc, before bringing children into the picture. Ex hubby and I never had kids.

[Eternal Sunshine]

I have no doubt that he loves me deeply. None at all. He shows it every day in words and actions. He also has zero doubt about his love for me. But love and marriage are really not the same thing.

 

We have had a lot of conflict, mostly because of the past baggage. We have successfully resolved most of it. We had a major breakthrough over the Christmas break. He is incredibly good at reading people and emotions. He observed me interact with my family a lot and has suggested the root cause of my insecurity, erratic emotions and instability. What he said just clicked with me like nothing else ever had. He would make an amazing psychologist.

 

This is a big step and I felt like a lot of my inner conflict has lifted overnight. We will see if it stands the test of time.

 

We have booked a trip to Europe in 7 months. He could possibly propose there. Given our particular relationship, I can fully understand his hesitation to propose right now. I feel that putting any pressure on him will cause him to run.

 

The way I see it, until this trip there are few possible scenarios:

 

1) Our relationship will stabilize and he will propose = happy ending

2) Our relationship will stabilize and he won't propose = I am not "the one" for him

3) Our relationship will not stabilize = time to admit it's not working out

 

I think I should just work on building and nurturing this relationship as much as possible in the meantime.

[mortensorchid]

I honestly have no idea how long one should be together before you even discuss marriage. But, you should be together for at least a year before you consider it to be anything more than just a dating situation. After 6 mos you are "in a relationship". In a sense, what I am saying is that there's no rush for anything.

[grkBoy]

I agree with you ES...especially working on it all. Relationships are work.

 

I personally would tell you to hold out until after the Euro trip. If he doesn't pop the question then, even I will be on the "move on" standpoint.

 

 

I just want you women to understand we men do not think the same way you all do. It's not even the financial risks, but emotional. A marrying man (not a guy who wants to be single forever) wants to know this woman won't get GIGS or he'll wake up 2 years later and she's 200 lbs heavier or she pushes him away every time he wants to be intimate. He wants to know the woman he marries will REMAIN the woman he married until death do them part.

[Eternal Sunshine]

Well, whatever happens I have learned some important lessons in this relationship. I will still be 33 after the Euro trip so there is still time to meet someone else and have family with them if this relationship doesn't work out.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I have no doubt that he loves me deeply. None at all. He shows it every day in words and actions. He also has zero doubt about his love for me. But love and marriage are really not the same thing.

 

We have had a lot of conflict, mostly because of the past baggage. We have successfully resolved most of it. We had a major breakthrough over the Christmas break. He is incredibly good at reading people and emotions. He observed me interact with my family a lot and has suggested the root cause of my insecurity, erratic emotions and instability. What he said just clicked with me like nothing else ever had. He would make an amazing psychologist.

 

This is a big step and I felt like a lot of my inner conflict has lifted overnight. We will see if it stands the test of time.

 

We have booked a trip to Europe in 7 months. He could possibly propose there. Given our particular relationship, I can fully understand his hesitation to propose right now. I feel that putting any pressure on him will cause him to run.

 

The way I see it, until this trip there are few possible scenarios:

 

1) Our relationship will stabilize and he will propose = happy ending

2) Our relationship will stabilize and he won't propose = I am not "the one" for him

3) Our relationship will not stabilize = time to admit it's not working out

 

I think I should just work on building and nurturing this relationship as much as possible in the meantime.

 

Wow! That sounds really mature and stable. (I'm not being facetious.) Please try to return to this place whenever you feel yourself going off track emotionally as time goes on. It is not just the relationship that has to stabilize - it's you.

 

As others have mentioned, you can argue, have insecurity, doubts, and even dramatic freakouts, but I don't think that any relationship can survive the long haul if one of the people involved regularly sees "the end" when things get rocky, or when she has PMS .

 

Try to realize that you are really "all in" even when things are at their roughest for whatever reason, whether there are real problems in the relationship, or you are just having a personal meltdown.

[Untouchable_Fire]

 

The way I see it, until this trip there are few possible scenarios:

 

1) Our relationship will stabilize and he will propose = happy ending

2) Our relationship will stabilize and he won't propose = I am not "the one" for him

3) Our relationship will not stabilize = time to admit it's not working out

 

I think I should just work on building and nurturing this relationship as much as possible in the meantime.

 

You don't have to have a proposal to have a happy ending.

 

Your basically saying that if he doesn't marry you then he doesn't love you... which is complete crap.

 

Marry this guy and you will be cheating on him in less than 4 years. I would bet money on that.

[Sanman]

Yep - this seems like a solid reasoning.

 

Out of curiosity, are you and your gf under 30?

 

I'm in my late 20s and she is in her mid 20s. In our case, career choices mean that we will be waiting at least two years. However, I have seriously date women in their late 20s and early 30s and would not deviate from 1.5-2 yrs. As grk boy mentioned, there are things that need to be sorted out and that is not just about love, but compatibility. In previous relationships, I have had women after 6 months or more of dating admit to:

 

Poor financial planning (chronically paying for fancy dinners while having no rent money), admit that her father was a violent felon/mentally ill and her brother in and out of rehab, not mention that their family was extremely religious (while I am not very religious) and not tolerant of my religion/religious views, that she did not want children or only wanted to adopt, and that she refused to leave the city and ever live in the suburbs/had expectations that children would be sent to expensive private schools, etc.

 

All of these things were serious compatibility issues for me and things that I would not have known had I not taken the time to let things unfold over time. Before I pop the question, I want to know that my partner is also financially responsible, so that we can save together, I want to know that she has a stable career that she would like to continue in the future, that we share similar goals/ideals about work and family, that she is emotionally stable and supportive of me, and that we can have a fun and productive partnership. To me, taking time to not rush into such a decision plays a large role in (hopefully) having a lengthy and happy marriage.

[carhill]

OP, you don't consider your LTR to be currently stable? I'm inferring that from 'will stabilize' or 'will not stabilize'. To me, verbiage more compatible with the thread topic would be, as examples, 'remains stable' or 'will de-stabilize'. If the current LTR is not stable, such topics as proposing marriage shouldn't be on the table, even in the general philosophical sense, especially couched in the verbiage of 'waiting for a proposal'. Sure, it's fine to solidify a personal philosophy on such matters, but that is exclusive to any particular relationship and, generally, better to be enacted prior to getting into any potential relationship, as such a philosophy is part of one's relationship 'style' and, as such, a component of compatibility.

 

If my inference is incorrect, please ignore, but I do ask for more clarity in describing such nuances

Edited January 5, 2012 by carhill

[Eternal Sunshine]

I guess it's also something he said a while ago. He said that if you don't know within a year if someone is "the one" then you will never know. He is also prone to impulsive romantic gestures. Like after our last fight, where he felt he was in the wrong, he got me 7 bouquets of flowers because he couldn't pick the best one - so he got all 7. I can completely see him proposing within 3 months or something for the right person.

 

He is someone that is not afraid of commitment or marriage. He says he wanted it since years ago. I did tell him about his "if you don't know within a year..." comment and he responded that our relationship wasn't exactly smooth so that rule doesn't apply. He also said the year is not up yet

 

I asked him what he likes the most about our relationship. He said the intellectual and emotional connection. He said that he can talk to me for days and never get bored. That we have so many similar interests and tastes, that he has never met anyone (male or female, family or not) that is more similar to him. The second thing he likes is the sex. He likes that I nearly never turn him down, that I initiate and like to experiment. Our sex life has drastically improved in the last few months.

 

I asked him what he likes the least. He said "the drama". But he is willing to take the good with the bad because the good is very good.

 

I will never give him the ultimatum. I will just leave if he doesn't propose after the Euro trip. I will tell him why but would be extremely hesitant to accept his proposal after my break up.

 

I remember our last conversation. He took my hands in his and said "I promise you ES, I am not mucking around. I am not wasting your time. I can see our baby in your arms. Please be patient. I only want to get married once"

 

He is not a liar.

[Star Gazer]

He is not a liar.

 

He's lied before though, right? About little things and big things. The shoes, the girl in Europe...

[Star Gazer]

We have had many problems but have successfully resolved all of them.

 

You have? Then why does this cycle keep repeating itself? The problems haven't been resolved at all.