All out in the open.

[despicableME]

Well the ***** finally hit the fan- her BH has been informed of the affair.

 

I don't know if it was my BS who "outed" the situation, but he has contacted me and wants to talk details. Needless to say that she(AP) wants me to lie about certain things, which I am not going to do. It has gotten to the point where she cornered me at work and broke down crying because she has regained her "love" for this man, and doesn't want to ruin her chance at R.

 

Whatever he wants I will give him.

 

I'm quite torn by this, as I never had the chance at R'ing and would feel more *****ty if I keep lying to this guy... WTF DID I DO?!?!?!

[TigerCub]

Hey

 

It doesn't seem like you're asking for any advice here, but I just wanted to say that by telling the BH the whole truth, you would be doing the right thing. If he knows something is going on, getting it all out at once and letting him do what he will to deal with it is more fair than the lies and trickle truth she's suggesting.

 

Good luck!

[goldengirl86]

Tell him the truth it is the least you owe him. However, it should really be up to her to tell him everything as by not she is harming her chances at reconciliation more.

 

Good luck i feel for you, this is a really hard time for everyone involved.

[whichwayisup]

Just apologize for your part in this, own it and answer what he needs to know.

 

Also, make sure you're in public place (maybe bring a trusted friend to sit at another table near by..Just in case).

[despicableME]

Although I am going to take precautions, I'm going to this by myself... I got myself into this, so I'm facing it as such- by myself. I've lost the most important thing in my life and don't care what the reprecussions may bring. I'm lost; I'm tired; and I don't want to feel this way anymore.

 

This will take place sometime this weekend as I'm currently out of town.

 

It seems like the only thig he wanted to hear was if I was in love with her... I'm not. He couldn't get past the fact that we could engage in such a torrid long-term affair without developing these feelings- LOVE.

 

I don't know if I should tell him that she planned to leave him for me if I would do the same, as this would definetly throw a wrench in their R efforts.

[whichwayisup]

Although I am going to take precautions, I'm going to this by myself... I got myself into this, so I'm facing it as such- by myself. I've lost the most important thing in my life and don't care what the reprecussions may bring. I'm lost; I'm tired; and I don't want to feel this way anymore.

 

This will take place sometime this weekend as I'm currently out of town.

 

It seems like the only thig he wanted to hear was if I was in love with her... I'm not. He couldn't get past the fact that we could engage in such a torrid long-term affair without developing these feelings- LOVE.

 

I don't know if I should tell him that she planned to leave him for me if I would do the same, as this would definetly throw a wrench in their R efforts.

 

The thing is, she says she was going to leave him for you, but it doesn't actually mean she would do it. saying it and doing it are two different things. Affair fog, remember that. She may have meant it during the times you were with her, felt so deeply in love, and maybe you with her .. But once the A ended, that fog lifted and reality kicked in. So many people realize that it wasn't LOVE. It's too easy to get wrapped up in the feelings of an intense crush and sexual lust. Easy to confuse it all.

 

Don't answer for her about her emotions and what she felt. She needs to tell him that stuff .. If he asks, then just say what you felt and you *assumed* she felt. hope that makes sense.

[despicableME]

He asked me during our conversation, if there were any future plans between us... before I could answer, he suggested we discuss this during our face-to-face, as she will be present. How am I supposed to keep both of them satisfied with my answers?

 

The only reason she went back to him was because I didn't want to leave my wife for her. This is so twisted... only now do I realize how f*cked-up we were.

[LadyGrey]

He asked me during our conversation, if there were any future plans between us... before I could answer, he suggested we discuss this during our face-to-face, as she will be present. How am I supposed to keep both of them satisfied with my answers?

 

The only reason she went back to him was because I didn't want to leave my wife for her. This is so twisted... only now do I realize how f*cked-up we were.

 

 

I think she probably wants to reconcile with him. I can't see why she would subject herself to the humiliation of coming with him to talk with you otherwise. If I were her and I didn't want my marriage, I'd say adios instead of going through that, wouldn't you?

 

I suggest you just be honest in what he asked of you.

 

Good luck!

[despicableME]

I don't doubt that she wants to R with him, LadyGrey. But I do know she doesn't want me to tell him about her initial plans on leaving him. I'm sure it was fog babble, but it was her intention. I just want this to go away(I know... I know).

 

I'm also pretty sure she down-played the sex- including the sex acts- we were engaged in. I really don't know how NOT to lie about this. This aspect was probably what kept the affair going in the first place.

 

If I were in his position, I'm pretty sure I'd ask some details about this. I just want to answer as truthfully as I can- I don't want to keep anything from him anymore.

 

When she cornered me the other day, she asked me- "Please don't be too graphic." We engaged in some pretty heavy stuff. How am I supposed explain that to him(warning: tmi- I used to tie off her thong to her ankle during our escapades) when he asks... or, if he asks to detail what we did? I mean... am I supposed to tell him these things? I'm at a loss.

 

By the way, thanks for the input.

Edited January 6, 2012 by despicableME

[goldengirl86]

I personally am not a fan of the fog theory, which is exactly what it is a theory. However, that is not what your asking. It is not your responsibilty to answer these questions it is hers, and it is up to you how you answer the questions he asks. I personally would answer any question he had truthfully. However, that being said i would if i cared for her at all honor her wishes as well and not disclose personal and private information of what went on between the two of you. However, that is only if you love her, which you do not so therefore do what your consious permits. It appears that you two liked the excitement of a new sexual experiences and perhaps she felt more for you than her, as it was just sex for you. No matter what you say he is going to be hurt, and if you tell him about these sexual acts it may do more harm than good. But he should know the truth.

It is a complicated situation, but actions have consequences. I know that when the BS came to my house i showed her the respect of telling her the truth, even though he had not. At the time it was the least i owed her, that and i believe it or not am a crappy liar. She afterward said to him that she would give me one thing and that was that i was honest.

[LadyGrey]

I don't doubt that she wants to R with him, LadyGrey. But I do know she doesn't want me to tell him about her initial plans on leaving him. I'm sure it was fog babble, but it was her intention. I just want this to go away(I know... I know).

 

I'm also pretty sure she down-played the sex- including the sex acts- we were engaged in. I really don't know how NOT to lie about this. This aspect was probably what kept the affair going in the first place.

 

If I were in his position, I'm pretty sure I'd ask some details about this. I just want to answer as truthfully as I can- I don't want to keep anything from him anymore.

 

When she cornered me the other day, she asked me- "Please don't be too graphic." We engaged in some pretty heavy stuff. How am I supposed explain that to him(warning: tmi- I used to tie off her thong to her ankle during our escapades) when he asks... or, if he asks to detail what we did? I mean... am I supposed to tell him these things? I'm at a loss.

 

By the way, thanks for the input.

 

 

Well it's not going to be easy irregardless of what he asks. I think if I were you, I'd just answer the questions without getting into great detail but yet he may very well ask for details. I wouldn't lie nor would I cover for her but yet I wouldn't want to give the nitty gritty. Perhaps if he asked for the nitty gritty details, and it goes farther than you are ok with, you can just say, I'm sorry but I don't feel comfortable getting that detailed. Yes you are the om and you are trying to do the right thing but yet at the same time you do have the right to say no. I think that you can be honest but yet you still have the right to do what you feel comfortable with, don't you?

 

You haven't said but does the bs seem to be angry with you? A lot of BS's go through a stage where they place all of the blame on the om/ow and just in case he is in that stage, it would be wise of you to do this in a public place such as a restaurant and maybe have a friend of yours sitting a few tables away. It wouldn't hurt to be cautious and infidelity is one of the most volatile subjects ever so it wouldn't hurt to take a few precautions.

 

Keep us posted and just a fyi I'm one of those rare ones who did talk to the bs myself.

 

 

 

 

 

I don't recall hearing of a situation in which the bs brings the ws with everyone's knowledge of what is going to transpire. That's an odd one.

[goldengirl86]

Right on!!! Heart On i agree with everything you just said.

[Kitsune77]

I totally agree!!! So why not grow some, man up and not say anything? You had a relationship with her, not him. What you ate doing shows you as less of a man. Did you ever tell her you weren't leaving your wife?

You had sex with her, so be a man, get over this insane LS mentality that you have to tell all, and show some decency to that woman

Then grow a bigger set, and try and adress your issues with your wife. You owe it to both woman. Your mw relationship with her husband is none of your bussiness, so bow out with dignity and respect for the woman( women) you obviously used.

Jeez, out of all the screwed up things I've read on here, this takes the cake!!!

Be a man!!

 

Neither can I! You must simply have N-traits that are off the charts to be able to do that.

 

That's just ugly and so heartless.So she got involved with you,fell in love and was willing to leave her husband for you,but you just used her for sex without having feelings for her and now she's going to have to answer for why you and she had this affair,when you had no intentions of making it real with her?

 

 

 

What did you expect her,your MOW,to do when she realized you were only in it for the sex?Why did you have an affair if you allegedly love your wife?Why did you get involved with someone else's wife if you weren't serious about it?

 

I think you should have her BACK as you already stabbed her in it enough! Does your wife know the dirty details of your sexual acts with his wife?Or that you simply use women for sex without having feelings for them?

 

If you want to come clean,admit that you callously used his wife for sex and see how that goes over.

 

 

 

 

Ummm..."we"?

 

How about you for not even caring about either woman.

[Kitsune77]

We said the same thing at the same time:))

 

Right on!!! Heart On i agree with everything you just said.

[LadyGrey]

Heart on, I enjoy a lot of your posts and your viewpoints and especially your informational links. However in this case, your post to DM seems unusually harsh as I don't recall him saying that he tricked her or fooled her into anything. Projecting maybe, as in regards to what happened to you?

 

 

Neither can I! You must simply have N-traits that are off the charts to be able to do that.

 

That's just ugly and so heartless.So she got involved with you,fell in love and was willing to leave her husband for you,but you just used her for sex without having feelings for her and now she's going to have to answer for why you and she had this affair,when you had no intentions of making it real with her?

 

I think the point where you and I part ways in our view of things is if a woman or a man (ow/om) walks in knowing that the other party is married, the victim status can't be claimed irregardless of the lies or bs told by one or both of them. There are a few exceptions, but only a few, imo.

 

 

 

What did you expect her,your MOW,to do when she realized you were only in it for the sex?Why did you have an affair if you allegedly love your wife?Why did you get involved with someone else's wife if you weren't serious about it?

 

I think you should have her BACK as you already stabbed her in it enough! Does your wife know the dirty details of your sexual acts with his wife?Or that you simply use women for sex without having feelings for them?

 

If you want to come clean,admit that you callously used his wife for sex and see how that goes over.

 

 

 

 

Ummm..."we"?

 

How about you for not even caring about either woman.

[LadyGrey]

>>>Scratches head and thinks wth.

 

Both of your posts are full of contradictions goldengirl and your agreement with heart on is a contradiction of some of your 1st post. Which is it?

 

 

 

I personally am not a fan of the fog theory, which is exactly what it is a theory. However, that is not what your asking. It is not your responsibilty to answer these questions it is hers, and it is up to you how you answer the questions he asks. I personally would answer any question he had truthfully. However, that being said i would if i cared for her at all honor her wishes as well and not disclose personal and private information of what went on between the two of you. However, that is only if you love her, which you do not so therefore do what your consious permits. It appears that you two liked the excitement of a new sexual experiences and perhaps she felt more for you than her, as it was just sex for you. No matter what you say he is going to be hurt, and if you tell him about these sexual acts it may do more harm than good. But he should know the truth.

It is a complicated situation, but actions have consequences. I know that when the BS came to my house i showed her the respect of telling her the truth, even though he had not. At the time it was the least i owed her, that and i believe it or not am a crappy liar. She afterward said to him that she would give me one thing and that was that i was honest.

 

Right on!!! Heart On i agree with everything you just said.

[woinlove]

Neither can I! You must simply have N-traits that are off the charts to be able to do that.

 

That's just ugly and so heartless.So she got involved with you,fell in love and was willing to leave her husband for you,but you just used her for sex without having feelings for her and now she's going to have to answer for why you and she had this affair,when you had no intentions of making it real with her?

 

 

 

What did you expect her,your MOW,to do when she realized you were only in it for the sex?Why did you have an affair if you allegedly love your wife?Why did you get involved with someone else's wife if you weren't serious about it?

 

I think you should have her BACK as you already stabbed her in it enough! Does your wife know the dirty details of your sexual acts with his wife?Or that you simply use women for sex without having feelings for them?

 

If you want to come clean,admit that you callously used his wife for sex and see how that goes over.

 

 

 

 

Ummm..."we"?

 

How about you for not even caring about either woman.

 

DM and the MOW had a year long affair where they both deceived their spouses. Yes, that is cruel and bad behaviour. Does it make it better if one or both fall in love at some point? If so, at what point does it matter? When they have only deceived their spouses for a month? Presumably they are still learning more about each other at that point, if they have only been intimate for a month. At six months?

 

In the end, DM confessed to his BW (and, if I recall, she chose to end the M then) whereas the MOW didn't want to tell her H and wanted to continue the secret A. Does the fact that she may be in love, or think she is in love, make this better? If she really wants to leave her H, she should leave her H, shouldn't she? Seems like she doesn't want to leave her H.

 

Secret affairs are rather heartless as you say, but what is done is done, and then what can one do? Seems to me all one can do is try to learn more about oneself and strive to treat others with more compassion and respect. I think DM made a step in that direction by confessing to his W and deciding not to continue the A, even though MOW was willing.

[LadyGrey]

I totally agree!!! So why not grow some, man up and not say anything? You had a relationship with her, not him. What you ate doing shows you as less of a man. Did you ever tell her you weren't leaving your wife?

You had sex with her, so be a man, get over this insane LS mentality that you have to tell all, and show some decency to that woman

Then grow a bigger set, and try and adress your issues with your wife. You owe it to both woman. Your mw relationship with her husband is none of your bussiness, so bow out with dignity and respect for the woman( women) you obviously used.

Jeez, out of all the screwed up things I've read on here, this takes the cake!!!

Be a man!!

 

Actually kitsume it takes bigger balls to right a wrong and to come clean with someone. It's odd that you have the opinion that withholding the truth or lying is the honorable, dignified, respectful thing to do. (Those were your words,) see bolded. Seriously....you think he should lie to cover her ass uh? lol And you go on to say that it's (telling the truth) is the most screwed up thing you've read on here. Really? I didn't know telling the truth was such a bad thing to do. lol

[woinlove]

Actually kitsume it takes bigger balls to right a wrong and to come clean with someone. It's odd that you have the opinion that withholding the truth or lying is the honorable, dignified, respectful thing to do. (Those were your words,) see bolded. Seriously....you think he should lie to cover her ass uh? lol And you go on to say that it's (telling the truth) is the most screwed up thing you've read on here. Really? I didn't know telling the truth was such a bad thing to do. lol

 

I agree. Since this woman wanted to continue the secret affair and is still lying, it seems likely she will go on to have other affairs unless she really changes. What might seem like doing her a favour now (lying to her H for her) is quite likely to delay her making real changes and may cause her even more pain down the road. I think openness and honesty is the way to go and could even be doing MOW a great favour in the long term, although the future can't be predicted.

 

Kitsune, I understand your idea of personal matters between two people in an intimate R. However, things change considerably when those people are also in intimate, and supposedly committed, Rs with others. A lot of stuff is shared in intimate Rs, often including information about other intimate Rs. When there is no overlap or deception, this all works fine as one can trust their intimate partner with such information. When deception is involved, the trust is misplaced for some or all of the participants, and the whole landscape changes. The idea of personal matters between two people typically goes out the window with the WS sharing intimate details of the BS and M and then intimate matters of the AP after d-day. It just goes with the territory of affairs with married partners.

 

I agree with earlier advice to not put in more detail than the BH asks for and if it gets into too much detail, DH, think about saying you think MOW should provide that kind of detail. If MOW is there, she doesn't need to be a passive spectator. She could answer questions too.

Edited January 6, 2012 by woinlove

[despicableME]

Look... I'm not here to paint myself as a good, upstanding person- far from it. I just want to tell this man the truth concerning the affair. I never once said that what I did was "cool." If you've taken a moment to read my threads, you'd know that I am sincerley sorry for what I have done to these people, especially my wife.

 

I have no ill will toward my AP, but I don't think I should keep lying for her when confronted by her BS... that's only adding insult to injury. This man just wants the truth. My problem lies in how far I should divulge this truth. They obviously want to reconcile, but some of these details might throw that into the gutter. This is the dilemma I'm facing.

 

To imply that I need to "grow a pair" is laughable. I ended this affair and admitted my wrongdoing to my wife, with the knowledge that I could lose her in the process- I DID! Nowhere do you see me bitching and moaning about the outcome that has been dealt to me, by me- STUPID, SELFISH, REPREHENSIBLE actions. I've owned up to my ***** every step of the way- read my threads.

[bentnotbroken]

Look... I'm not here to paint myself as a good, upstanding person- far from it. I just want to tell this man the truth concerning the affair. I never once said that what I did was "cool." If you've taken a moment to read my threads, you'd know that I am sincerley sorry for what I have done to these people, especially my wife.

 

I have no ill will toward my AP, but I don't think I should keep lying for her when confronted by her BS... that's only adding insult to injury. This man just wants the truth. My problem lies in how far I should divulge this truth. They obviously want to reconcile, but some of these details might throw that into the gutter. This is the dilemma I'm facing.

 

To imply that I need to "grow a pair" is laughable. I ended this affair and admitted my wrongdoing to my wife, with the knowledge that I could lose her in the process- I DID! Nowhere do you see me bitching and moaning about the outcome that has been dealt to me, by me- STUPID, SELFISH, REPREHENSIBLE actions. I've owned up to my ***** every step of the way- read my threads.

 

I must admit you seem to have been completely honest with your wife and yourself. Now it is time to be honest with the BS. You should be able to give him the truth without the thong type details. You DID the most unselfish thing when you came clean to your with wife knowing what the possible outcome could be. To those spouting not telling the BS or protecting the OW....she knew the possible outcomes as well. She needs to be able to deal. When you crap on someone you might just be asked to clean it up. Give her hip boots and let her go to work.

[Owl]

Here's my suggestion.

 

When you sit down at the table with the both of them, start out by saying that you're going to be completely honest, and commit to telling him the truth. Spell that out clearly, up front.

 

Answer any questions he asks. Provide any information you think he truly needs to know in order to work through this.

 

If that makes her uncomfortable, that's not your problem.

 

Just be honest, and up front. Don't volunteer details if you don't think that knowing them is in his best interests...but don't lie by omission or withold information if he asks for it.

 

Make it clear that you're DONE with her at this point...that this is the last contact you will EVER, EVER have with either one of them. Ensure that he understands that this ONE TIME question and answer episode will be the last contact of any kind between either of them and yourself. Let them know...you're going to need to heal from this too, and going complete NC with both of them is the only way that this will happen.

 

I'd add in one thing...make it clear that ANY attempt to contact you by her will be immediately forwarded on to him...as you intend to stay well clear of the whole situation from this point forward.

 

Then when the session is over...walk away knowing you've done the right things.

[Quiet Storm]

Quote:

It seems like the only thing he wanted to hear was if I was in love with her... I'm not. He couldn't get past the fact that we could engage in such a torrid long-term affair without developing these feelings- LOVE.

Neither can I! You must simply have N-traits that are off the charts to be able to do that.

 

That's just ugly and so heartless.So she got involved with you,fell in love and was willing to leave her husband for you,but you just used her for sex without having feelings for her and now she's going to have to answer for why you and she had this affair,when you had no intentions of making it real with her?

 

Quote:

The only reason she went back to him was because I didn't want to leave my wife for her. This is so twisted... only now do I realize how f*cked-up we were.

What did you expect her,your MOW,to do when she realized you were only in it for the sex?Why did you have an affair if you allegedly love your wife?Why did you get involved with someone else's wife if you weren't serious about it?

 

I think you should have her BACK as you already stabbed her in it enough! Does your wife know the dirty details of your sexual acts with his wife?Or that you simply use women for sex without having feelings for them?

 

If you want to come clean,admit that you callously used his wife for sex and see how that goes over.

 

 

Quote:

This is so twisted... only now do I realize how f*cked-up we were.

Ummm..."we"?

 

How about you for not even caring about either woman.

 

If she was willing to engage in an affair with another woman's husband, then she needs to be willing to face the consequences.

 

In an affair, both parties are lying to their spouses. How can you NOT be in a brain fog if you don't compute that they will lie to you as well? I will never understand how someone can be so naive to expect loyalty from an affair partner.

 

It does not make him narcissistic to not be in love with OW after a long term affair. As I've said in other posts, sex hormones (lust) make many men feel loving feelings at moments in time. So while their words of love may be genuine at that moment, those feelings are fleeting and the result of biological chemical brain reactions.

 

OW serves her purpose for MM- he gets his needs met and has a handy escape, a fantasy.

 

However, when the affair is exposed, it's no longer a fantasy, it is reality. And sometimes a nightmare. When OW becomes a liability to MM, instead of a benefit, those lust chemicals stop sparking and logic kicks in.

 

I understand why OW want to believe that there is genuine love in an affair. They want it to mean something. Most have compromised their values to enter into an affair in the first place, and it is painful to know that you were willing to do that, to only be seen as an enhancement to someones life. But that's the reality of it for most OW.

 

Yes, MW was hurt. She was used. She fell in love with a married man and got burned. But she did this to herself. To allow feelings to develop for a MM, to feed those feelings with thoughts and dreams and pillow talk...all while knowing he is married to someone else...that's just not smart. At all.

 

As an adult, it is our responsibility to protect ourselves from emotional pain. Our parents aren't around to shield us anymore. And when there are blazing red flags around a person (he's married), and you allow yourself to go there, you are setting yourself for hurt and heartache. It is the emotional equivelant of walking on the beach in a Catergory 5 hurricane. You wouldn't do that because you know it would be dangerous physically, so why are some women so willing to put their hearts on the line and risk emotional harm to themselves?

 

In this situation, which seems very typical, you have a man that loved his wife, but was probably bored in his marriage, and his needs (usually sexual) were not being met. So he sought out the affair for excitement and to fill the needs that weren't being met in his marriage. He did not intent to replace his wife. (Most men would not even consider having a real, legitimate relationship with a MW, because he is logical enough to see that she is a liar and a cheater. They are good for and affair and sex, but not marriage material). Then you have a woman that had very likely fallen out of love with her husband, was neglected emotionally, and mistakenly took MM's lust and pillow talk fantasy as signs of love. She intended to replace her husband, but MM did not. They were not on the same page and she let her emotions take over her logic.

 

The fact that MW fell in love with MM does not mean that MM should lie for her. She made her bed, and now she has to lie in it.

 

She is not a victim of MM, she is a willing participant in her own pain.

 

Now that MM doesn't want her, she needs her husband again. Her husband deserves to know what kind of woman that he is married to. He should know that he was her second choice. He should know what she was willing to do with another man sexually, and that it was not just her body that she shared, but her heart. These truths will hurt, but he needs them to make informed decisions about the status of his marriage. If MW ends up alone, that's her consequence.

 

Protecting the MW will only teach her that her actions don't have consequences. Protecting will leave a husband in the dark about his cheating wife.

 

Being honest with her husband is the right thing to do.

[PhoenixRise]

Look... I'm not here to paint myself as a good, upstanding person- far from it. I just want to tell this man the truth concerning the affair. I never once said that what I did was "cool." If you've taken a moment to read my threads, you'd know that I am sincerley sorry for what I have done to these people, especially my wife.

 

I have no ill will toward my AP, but I don't think I should keep lying for her when confronted by her BS... that's only adding insult to injury. This man just wants the truth. My problem lies in how far I should divulge this truth. They obviously want to reconcile, but some of these details might throw that into the gutter. This is the dilemma I'm facing.

 

To imply that I need to "grow a pair" is laughable. I ended this affair and admitted my wrongdoing to my wife, with the knowledge that I could lose her in the process- I DID! Nowhere do you see me bitching and moaning about the outcome that has been dealt to me, by me- STUPID, SELFISH, REPREHENSIBLE actions. I've owned up to my ***** every step of the way- read my threads.

 

It is not your job to facilitate or in any way ease the way for their reconciliation. Don't limit what information he receives from you based helping them stay together.

 

But don't feel like you have to give graphic details regarding specific sexual acts. The details you are thinking of are probably not something he is likely to ask about. Do you really think he is going to ask if you tied his wife's thong to her ankle?

 

Give him truthful answers to his questions but don't volunteer details.

[thomasb]

Quiet, very good post. You took the words right out of my mouth.

I think there are an awful lot of people on LS who do not understand that truth and decency, honestly and integrity go hand in hand.