All out in the open.

[woinlove]

Yes, I was wondering about that "my friend" bit too, as I just posted on another thread here about the difference between xMM and true friends. I have seen a real male friend through a divorce (his W cheated) and I had supported him and his M when his M was important to him and I supported him and his path through divorce when he decided that was what he wanted.

 

I suppose if MM actively and consciously wanted to be a cheater in his M, and for some reason one decided that was a good path to take, then a friend would help him along that path. However, many cheaters don't actually want to be cheaters, they just want both their M and something they see as fun, thrilling, irresistible, whatever, in addition to their M, and a true friend would not help them along in their delusion that they actually can have both and be the kind of person they want to be too. So, I don't know what you mean by MOW being your friend, DM. Was she really supporting and helping you be the kind of man you aspired to be, telling you the real truth even when you'd rather just focus on the fun parts? I find that difficult to imagine.

[Spark1111]

Yes, I was wondering about that "my friend" bit too, as I just posted on another thread here about the difference between xMM and true friends. I have seen a real male friend through a divorce (his W cheated) and I had supported him and his M when his M was important to him and I supported him and his path through divorce when he decided that was what he wanted.

 

I suppose if MM actively and consciously wanted to be a cheater in his M, and for some reason one decided that was a good path to take, then a friend would help him along that path. However, many cheaters don't actually want to be cheaters, they just want both their M and something they see as fun, thrilling, irresistible, whatever, in addition to their M, and a true friend would not help them along in their delusion that they actually can have both and be the kind of person they want to be too. So, I don't know what you mean by MOW being your friend, DM. Was she really supporting and helping you be the kind of man you aspired to be, telling you the real truth even when you'd rather just focus on the fun parts? I find that difficult to imagine.

 

This is why affairs thrive in SECRET!

 

Absolutely no TRUE FRIEND, family member, co-worker or colleague, who truly liked or loved you and cared about you, your actions, your legacy, would have EVER encouraged you to have an affair!

 

...except your affair partner.

 

And if that isn't the height of delusional self-interest, I do not know what is!

 

That is why they are conducted in a little fantasy buble of secrecy, so you can PROJECT caring and concern onto each other to justify the really, really hot sex induced by chemicals as you both slide down the path to potential self (and OTHER)-destruction.

[Emme]

To be honest, I was addicted to the physical aspect of it. I know many will suggest I was only using her. But wasn't she doing the same? We would both exchange very explicit texts and e-mails to each other, so I don't see it as one-sided. Another misconception is that I felt nothing for her, other than seeing her as a sexual outlet. Not true. It wasn't all sex. It was the reason we began the affair, but the relationship was more than that. Many others in the same situation can attest to that. Sure it culminated in some mind-blowing sex, but she was my friend. She might have not been a friend to my marriage, but she was my friend, nonetheless.

 

 

 

That damn good sex. Always the culprit.

 

The bolded is the way a woman can fall and fall hard. I know you say it's just an equal exchange but in the end those emotions build into more than just sex. Whatever you felt... those emotions sometimes for a woman is multiplied.

[Spark1111]

That damn good sex. Always the culprit.

 

The bolded is the way a woman can fall and fall hard. I know you say it's just an equal exchange but in the end those emotions build into more than just sex. Whatever you felt... those emotions sometimes for a woman is multiplied.

 

Very, very true!

 

And for a man, one of the strongest aphrodisiacs is to be sexually desired by a woman.....She may not be that good or kind or caring of a woman, but he is on his way to falling for her emotionally.

[Emme]

Very, very true!

 

And for a man, one of the strongest aphrodisiacs is to be sexually desired by a woman.....She may not be that good or kind or caring of a woman, but he is on his way to falling for her emotionally.

 

I've seen posts where many think its the thrill of getting caught, doing something wrong or something to that effect. In my opinion I just think its a person stepping outside of the box they are in. You are a more willing person than you are in your normal life and that excitement of pleasure is why the impact is so great. Being submissive has never felt so good.

[despicableME]

From what you have posted here, it didn't sound like she wanted out.

 

My experience is that lots of things are said by MM while holding your faces close together.

 

Do you think she wanted to continue to lie to her H to get a better divorce settlement and not to try to continue the M?

 

If that doesn't sound like she "wanted out;" I don't know what does.

 

We were not in the "throes of passion" so-to-speak when she communicated this to me. We were out and about when she told me this. I think she wanted me to validate her feelings by expressing my own discontent with my marriage.

 

I don't know if she had ulterior motives. I was taking everything at face value.

 

 

Sure it culminated in some mind-blowing sex,

 

eh - that can be had anywhere.

 

I beg to differ on this opinion. I'm not a "man-whore" by any means, but I have had other sexual partners before getting married, and some of the sex was just bland.

 

 

but she was my friend. She might have not been a friend to my marriage, but she was my friend, nonetheless.

 

So, I don't know what you mean by MOW being your friend, DM.

 

I may have misspoke about the "friend" thing. What I meant to say was, she was my friend before this ever happened- the affair, I mean. We were friends and colleagues.

 

Obviously, she, nor I, were friends to our respective marriages. Clear?

 

All of you bring-up valid points concerning the "friend" reference. I'm not fighting you on that. You have to understand that in my twisted thinking, I just rationalized the relationship into a "more than just friends" dynamic.

 

 

I know you say it's just an equal exchange but in the end those emotions build into more than just sex. Whatever you felt... those emotions sometimes for a woman is multiplied.

 

I'm beginning to understand this, Emme.

 

In the same vein, you must understand the mind of the MM differs significantly from that of the OW. Haven't you read the countless laments of the OW concerning the lack this emotional aspect on the part of the MM?

 

 

In my opinion I just think its a person stepping outside of the box they are in. You are a more willing person than you are in your normal life and that excitement of pleasure is why the impact is so great.

 

Yes! Exactly!

 

I was a different person... we were different people. Both she and I could act out our fantasies together. Then, we would come back to our reality, secure within the stability and comfort of our normal lives.

[whichwayisup]

In the same vein, you must understand the mind of the MM differs significantly from that of the OW. Haven't you read the countless laments of the OW concerning the lack this emotional aspect on the part of the MM?

Actually not completely sure this is an OW - MM issue. Seems it's a female/male issue. Men think and process things different than women, (I'm generalizing here, so obviously not ALL men or ALL women are like this, just sayin'..) and women are emotional, open communicators, more in touch with their feelings, can express it more than a man.

[donnamaybe]

Yes, I've read it too many times to count as well. But the OW (and her supporters) convince her that MM does this because it must mean that he's in love with her . . . but he's "fighting" it.

 

I think this brand of support comes from someone who so desperately wants to believe this about their own AP, whether their A is in the past or is a current one.

[alexandria35]

Yes, I've read it too many times to count as well. But the OW (and her supporters) convince her that MM does this because it must mean that he's in love with her . . . but he's "fighting" it.

 

By reading DM's posts I think to a certain extent he was "fighting" it. He has said several times that he refrained from saying and doing certain things because he was afraid of where it might lead.

[frozensprouts]

was your other woman your friend?

 

maybe before she decided to have an affair with you, she was, but once she made that decision, the friendship would, from my way of thinking, be over.

 

Would a friend encourage or participate directly in something that she/he knew was going to hurt you or lead to trouble for you in your life?

 

Not trying to sound mean or anything, but the minute you both decided to enter into an affair, the friendship was over, as you were both acting in your own self interest and basing your decisions on your own self gratification.

 

You both had the option of deciding that since you were friends you would not cross the boundary between friendship and an affair, but that's not the choice you made.

 

Sorry that all this had led to you getting divorced. I know it's not been an easy time for you, but I commend you for taking the time to try and understand what happened. Not everyone does that, and I really believe it takes a pretty strong person to do so. I also think that your postings on here offer a different perspective, and that it is very helpful to a lot of people.

Thanks for being open and honest.

[spice4life]

If that doesn't sound like she "wanted out;" I don't know what does.

 

We were not in the "throes of passion" so-to-speak when she communicated this to me. We were out and about when she told me this. I think she wanted me to validate her feelings by expressing my own discontent with my marriage.

 

I don't know if she had ulterior motives. I was taking everything at face value.

 

What action did take when you realized she was in it for more than the affair? Maybe you rationalized it at the time, but you should look deeper within yourself to figure out the "true" motives behind your actions. It doesn't really matter anymore what her motives were because it's done. What matters the most is why you choose this path as opposed to dealing with your life honestly.

 

All of you bring-up valid points concerning the "friend" reference. I'm not fighting you on that. You have to understand that in my twisted thinking, I just rationalized the relationship into a "more than just friends" dynamic.

 

In the same vein, you must understand the mind of the MM differs significantly from that of the OW. Haven't you read the countless laments of the OW concerning the lack this emotional aspect on the part of the MM?

 

This is very sobering and something OW's should permanantly burn into their brains. I haven't read the updates in your thread, but may I ask, are you in therapy? I think it runs deeper than simply "the mind of the MM." It speaks more to the person who chooses this path to begin with. It's an issue of personal boundaries. Did you stay with the MOW after she disclosed her feelings to you for the sex? In other words, did you try to steer her away from talking about the emotional aspect, so you could keep the sexual part going?

 

As a side question, and I don't really buy the addiction argument, what would possess a man to manipulate a woman into continuing the affair after she has expressed she doesn't want to be a part of it and tries to go NC and leave?

 

I was a different person... we were different people. Both she and I could act out our fantasies together. Then, we would come back to our reality, secure within the stability and comfort of our normal lives.

 

how do you feel about this now? You were going back the security of your own life, but from what you wrote in the beginning, she wasn't. I think you are still trying to rationalize here. This is even harder for a single OW who develops feelings for a MM she is involved with. It's true that both women have issues as well because if they were sound with themselves, they wouldn't head down this path to begin with. Did you sense a vulnerability in your MOW that allowed you to cross the line with her?

 

 

Responses i italics. Thanks for your sobering honesty. If this doesn't deter an OW from contnuing an affair, I don't know what will.

Edited March 11, 2012 by spice4life

[despicableME]

She broke NC regarding her imminent transfer. Harmless?

[Owl]

Would her husband think it's harmless?

 

Precisely. Exactly the right question.

 

The other side of that coin is...what were DM's emotional responses during/after her resumed contact with him?

[Emme]

She broke NC regarding her imminent transfer. Harmless?

 

I thought this thread was dead... SMH. *whistles* *Gets the doritos, gatorade ready for DM's response*

 

DM I think that the entire encounter as "brief" as it might have been needs to be stated for the record. Word for word and your emotions behind those words, also her attire. That would better help us assess what might be going on. Also why you felt the need to share this info. Then we might know if it's harmless or not.

[Afishwithabike]

I think you need to tell the husband. Contact is contact.

 

There wasn't any need for her to contact you about her imminent transfer. That was already discussed when you met with them.

 

Dare I ask how the divorce is proceeding?

[whichwayisup]

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/other-man-woman/311790-all-out-open-8.html

 

Page 8. He got the D papers served to him.

[despicableME]

Would her husband think it's harmless?

 

Good point.

 

 

I thought this thread was dead... SMH. *whistles* *Gets the doritos, gatorade ready for DM's response*

 

DM I think that the entire encounter as "brief" as it might have been needs to be stated for the record. Word for word and your emotions behind those words, also her attire. That would better help us assess what might be going on. Also why you felt the need to share this info. Then we might know if it's harmless or not.

 

I'm glad my woes have kept you entertained, Emme.

 

Are you serious? You want me to describe what she was wearing?

 

I'm sharing this because this is the place where I come to vent. I'm not in any type of counseling; nor do I talk to anyone else about this.

 

It was only concerning her transfer. That's why I didn't consider it inappropriate:

 

- i got my transfer. don't want to go. do you have anything to say?

 

That's it.

 

At first, I didn't think much of it. Now... I don't know if I'm reading too much into it, but it sounds like she wants me to say- STAY.

 

I haven't aswered it... don't plan to.

 

It might sound counter-productive, but the reason I didn't inform her husband was because I don't want to get her into any more trouble. So I guess that means I still hold some feelings for her.

 

I really don't know what I'm going to do when it comes time for her to leave for good. I just know they're going to throw her some kind of office send off. What then? Should I attend? I mean, she is/was a close colleague. It would look pretty damn cruel in the eyes of the rest of the team if I snubbed her.

 

This will be over soon enough. I just have to hold on.

Edited April 13, 2012 by despicableME

[imperfectangel]

Dm I love your posts and they have helped me so much

 

I think you're right she wants to stay I just don't think she has the courage to follow through maybe she sees her h as her security blanket she knows where she stands with him - what to expect on a daily basis etc

 

To me if you have anything to say say it it's what I've always done with my ex mm we don't talk now but even when the end was imminent I emailed him whenever I felt the need now I have it all out my system we are nc now and I don't have the I wish I'd said this or that situation

[mercy]

Are you serious? You want me to describe what she was wearing?

 

 

Yes! Was it a I'm going to work it is what it is outfit or was it I think I'll where my 'rockin' it' outfit for the 2 second chat.

[despicableME]

Dm I love your posts and they have helped me so much

 

I'm glad they've been a positive for you, angel. In what way? Can you explain?

 

 

When you meet with this BH. Make sure he is not arme

 

Pierre, that was taken care of some time ago. The details of which are in a previous post.

 

 

Yes! Was it a I'm going to work it is what it is outfit or was it I think I'll wear my 'rockin' it' outfit for the 2 second chat.

 

She's a professional. There was no "rockin' it," as far as her attire was concerned. I don't see the relevence to the situation. Maybe you and Emme can elaborate on the curiousness of her wardrobe.

 

By the way, it was an e-mail, not a face-to-face.

Edited April 13, 2012 by despicableME

[despicableME]

Alice, you misunderstood. I'm thinking aloud.

 

And yes, it does cross my mind. I'd be lying if I said I don't think about these things. There's a difference between pondering a situation and acting on them. So far I've kept my end of the bargain- NC whatsoever.

 

No need to jump all over me everytime I post my thoughts.

Edited April 13, 2012 by despicableME

[spice4life]

It was a fishing attempt to see what you're reaction would be. Good thing you didn't respond because that would be totally unfair to her husband whom you met face to face. She obviously has not committed herself 100% to rebuilding her marriage. If she was, she wouldn't even attempt contacting you out of respect to her husband. Wow, I feel so sorry for him. She is still in denial and will most likely cheat on him again.

[mercy]

 

 

 

She's a professional. There was no "rockin' it," as far as her attire was concerned. I don't see the relevence to the situation. Maybe you and Emme can elaborate on the curiousness of her wardrobe.

 

By the way, it was an e-mail, not a face-to-face.

 

eh - don't be so stuffy, it was just me teasing.

 

edit - I typed 'where' instead of 'wear'! lol lmao

 

Emme and I need to watch it, we all know what happened to the cat.

Edited April 13, 2012 by mercy

[Emme]

I'm glad my woes have kept you entertained, Emme..

 

I am a woman who loves to be entertained.

 

 

Are you serious? You want me to describe what she was wearing?

I am dead serious. I’m glad you cleared up that it was via email. The reason why I asked those questions is because you wanted to know if this contact was harmless. If she did approach you a lot can be said about her possible intentions based on her attire and body language. Never underestimate body language. It can tell you more than words. If her attire was seductive or she looked as though she prepped herself to see you then you would know how much harm you were in.

I'm sharing this because this is the place where I come to vent. I'm not in any type of counseling; nor do I talk to anyone else about this.

Based on your posts your attitude towards her made her insignificant in my eyes. I personally don’t care about people who don’t matter. It takes too much energy to care. The fact that you took the time to share means she does matter. I was just shocked.

 

It was only concerning her transfer. That's why I didn't consider it inappropriate:

 

- i got my transfer. don't want to go. do you have anything to say?

 

That's it.

 

At first, I didn't think much of it. Now... I don't know if I'm reading too much into it, but it sounds like she wants me to say- STAY.

 

I haven't aswered it... don't plan to.

 

Any contact this woman makes with you is harmful. Newsflash women always have a plan. Nothing is a accident. Keep holding on and I hope you make it through the storm. It’s almost over for you. Good luck.

[spice4life]

It was a fishing attempt to see what you're reaction would be. Good thing you didn't respond because that would be totally unfair to her husband whom you met face to face. She obviously has not committed herself 100% to rebuilding her marriage. If she was, she wouldn't even attempt contacting you out of respect to her husband. Wow, I feel so sorry for him. She is still in denial and will most likely cheat on him again.

 

Just want to make clear that I'm not jumping down throat, I am just merely pointing out that she is still in denial and isn't fully commited to working on her marriage. If a BS and WS have decided to work on their marriage, the OW or OM should respect that and remain complete NC. Any business contact should be kept strictly professional and nothing more. Especially if the BS met with you to make it clear that they are working on the marriage.

 

I guess the question is, what are your goals in this situation? Are you still committed to not ending up vulnerable to an affair again? If you are thinking that it is still okay to communicate in a social business setting where she may try to "talk" to you about your feelings, then you are still in a bit of denial and still vulnerable yourself. Is that what your thinking about if you attend the send off? Just trying to get a clear picture of what you're thinking, so no offense intended.

 

In any case, she should not have contacted you asking for your thoughts. It means she has not truly "seen" the impact of what she has done to her husband. That's between them now, I know, but knowing what you know, you should do everything in your power to not give in to her fishiing attempts. If you give once inch, then the next request will be to meet and talk I bet.

 

It's your choice though. These are just some things to consider. If it were me, I would call out that day...lol!

Edited April 13, 2012 by spice4life