TheBigQuestion Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I'm about as lonely as you. If she takes issue with it... then Yes she is a bitch. I've dated those girls before, it isn't worth the time. Plenty of women out there who are not just after your wallet. I never use cash. My credit card pays me 1-4% on each purchase 6% for gas. My financial programs track and categorize all of my purchases. Paying in cash means I have no tracking and I have to keep those receipts. It's a huge pain in my butt. She hasn't rejected him yet... but seriously... Who has the right to get upset if someone doesn't pay for them? Gotta admit... that's kind of bitchy. It's not only bitchy, it's the epitome of pointless, entitled behavior. And it's not something that a man has to put up with. Having a vagina does not entitle you to getting paid for on dates by men. If a guy offers to pay for you, great. On the other hand, expecting it as a matter of course is a disgustingly entitled attitude, not one I've ever put up with, and lo and behold, I haven't had very many problems keeping women interested. That's just a standard response from dudes who don't possess the ingenuity to circumvent pointless social conventions and from women who fear losing their meal ticket. Do I really have to resurrect my massive thread on this very subject? Link to post Share on other sites
colliejoanie Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Well, you asked the question, OP....and people are giving you their answers. Yes, I always offer to pay on a first date.....but if the guy took me up on it because he didn't have the money, it would be a MAJOR turn off. If you don't have the money to pay for the date, don't go. I take this stance, myself. If I'm asked out on a date, and I don't have the money to pay for both of us (because I always offer) I don't go.....and I'm a chick. Link to post Share on other sites
nothappyjan Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I am always willing to split after the first few dates but there is something nice about the guy paying for the first couple of dates. It makes it so less awkward than dealing with the money issue when you hardly know someone. It always kind of kills my attraction a bit when a guy can't shout the first time. Some may say im being a selfish bitch, but I give lots in a relationship in other ways and this is one tradition that just makes me feel like the guy is into me. Link to post Share on other sites
Star Gazer Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 It's not only bitchy, it's the epitome of pointless, entitled behavior. And it's not something that a man has to put up with. Having a vagina does not entitle you to getting paid for on dates by men. If a guy offers to pay for you, great. On the other hand, expecting it as a matter of course is a disgustingly entitled attitude, not one I've ever put up with, and lo and behold, I haven't had very many problems keeping women interested. That's just a standard response from dudes who don't possess the ingenuity to circumvent pointless social conventions and from women who fear losing their meal ticket. Do I really have to resurrect my massive thread on this very subject? It's not a matter of having a vagina. Inviting someone to dinner subjects you to pay for them. If you invite, you pay...penis or vagina. Do you invite guests to your house for dinner or a BBQ and charge them at the door? Yes, it's nice if they offer to chip in or bring something, but if you invite, expect to front the bill, and never expect your GUESTS to pay. Link to post Share on other sites
Tybalt Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I think it is a wise practice, male or female, to have funds with you to cover the activities on the average date, unless you have an already established pattern with that individual as to how finances are handled, or you discuss it explicitly. I have had the spectrum of experiences when it comes to "who pays", and one thing I am certain about is that I would never want to be caught out in a situation where neither of us had adequate funds to cover a tab. That would be more awkward than any other scenario in my opinion. It's nice when things flow naturally. Regardless of who is paying, as long as both parties feel respected and not taken advantage of, then the focus can be on getting to know other aspects of the person sitting across from you. I try not to put such immense stock in these details, if only because there seems to be confusion and angst surrounding the matter. I've not paid, I've paid, when I offer or make a move to do so, they accept or decline. But I think it's definitely smart to be prepared. Link to post Share on other sites
kaylan Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Well, you asked the question, OP....and people are giving you their answers. Yes, I always offer to pay on a first date.....but if the guy took me up on it because he didn't have the money, it would be a MAJOR turn off. If you don't have the money to pay for the date, don't go. I take this stance, myself. If I'm asked out on a date, and I don't have the money to pay for both of us (because I always offer) I don't go.....and I'm a chick. Why even offer to pay if its not sincere? Exactly the kind of women I avoid...thank god most women my age who I meet dont think like this anymore. Link to post Share on other sites
kaylan Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Are you talking about astrology? What does that have to do with anything? I'll pay for a guy once we're in a relationship. I treat my boyfriend to dinner on his birthday or if he just got a new job. Otherwise, we split the bill, since we've been together for awhile and I don't expect him to pay for me all the time. But on the first few dates, I would think he was cheap if he expected me to pay for him. Especially since he's the one who asked me out. (If I invite him out, that's a different story.) Agree with this. Noone should have to pay for anyone in the early going. When I first hang out with a girl I will pay if its something small like coffee or whatever. Tbh, Ive never had formal dates that costed much money unless I was already exclusive to a girl someone. By that time we both had no problem treating one another. Usually in the beginning the girls Ive hung with go with me to local shows in town, or hit up the bar or coffee house. Its usually a split, and they never took issue or expected me to pay for them. What usually happens is ill buy them a drink or two while we are out partying...and then they will reciprocate with a drink...or just let me sip on theres to keep a buzz going. Tbh OP, the kind of women you want are the ones ive dated or girls like Cypress. And since youre young, youll have no problem meeting girls who have no issue taking care of themselves. Avoid women with expectations. Link to post Share on other sites
colliejoanie Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Why even offer to pay if its not sincere? Exactly the kind of women I avoid...thank god most women my age who I meet dont think like this anymore. Why on EARTH would you ask someone out if you didn't have the money to pay for it??? Yeah, it might be a generational thing......Thank GOD I'm old. Honestly I didn't think this was an age thing....if a guy asks a girl out, he should pay. I don't expect a guy to pay for me for the rest of our lives together.....and I'm not the kind of girl that has EVER let a guy always pay. I like being independent, and I like giving to people as well. But....really????? A FIRST DATE????? And money is ALREADY an issue???? No thank you. Link to post Share on other sites
kaylan Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Also OP I am 25 and have dated girls from mid teens to mid 20s since I started dating at 16. Ive never ran into the princess mentality with the girls Ive gone out with. So dont be so quick to say younger gals care more about being treat like princesses. Its usually the older women with the expectations to be honest. My generation of teens and 20 somethings, seem to hold a lot more women who can take care of themselves and actually like to show guys a good time too. A girl I was seeing during the summer would buy a 35 dollar bottle of Ciroc and wed kill it together at her apartment while we pregamed to go out at night. She was a pretty generous gal despite how crazy odd she was. Then id get her a drink we when went out. Any girl thats generous to me gets so many brownie points. Link to post Share on other sites
kaylan Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Why on EARTH would you ask someone out if you didn't have the money to pay for it??? Yeah, it might be a generational thing......Thank GOD I'm old. Honestly I didn't think this was an age thing....if a guy asks a girl out, he should pay. I don't expect a guy to pay for me for the rest of our lives together.....and I'm not the kind of girl that has EVER let a guy always pay. I like being independent, and I like giving to people as well. But....really????? A FIRST DATE????? And money is ALREADY an issue???? No thank you. I dont ask women out on formal dates. I usually ask them if they would wanna chill with me to do something. I dont ask to hang out in a way that implies Im going to pay for it when I barely know them. If I did ask in that way, of course id pay, but only women who im exclusive to get that treatment. Even if I did ask a girl out and was paying for her, if she was so disingenuous to not trully be sincere with her offer, thats reason to axe her myself. I like generosity in someone, and a truly generous girl actually means it when she lends out a helping hand. I guess I was spoiled by the girls Ive dated, who actually bought me ice cream or drinks when weve hung out. Or who've offered to get the tip. I cant help that Im turned off by fake offers of generosity. Obviously on a first date, money is an issue for women like YOU, not men like me. I have the means to pay, but dont want to be expected to unless ive made it clear that I play to do so. To put out a fake offer to chip in afterwards is just lame. Sure I love when a girl offers to help, but only when its sincere. Its send a totally different message when she didnt mean it at all. Link to post Share on other sites
musemaj11 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) I'm offering to pay for myself, not both of us, lol. But you wouldnt mind if the guy is the one who paid for both of you right? The beauty of the woman's mind. Edited January 9, 2012 by musemaj11 Link to post Share on other sites
colliejoanie Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I dont ask women out on formal dates. I usually ask them if they would wanna chill with me to do something. I dont ask to hang out in a way that implies Im going to pay for it when I barely know them. If I did ask in that way, of course id pay, but only women who im exclusive to get that treatment. Even if I did ask a girl out and was paying for her, if she was so disingenuous to not trully be sincere with her offer, thats reason to axe her myself. I like generosity in someone, and a truly generous girl actually means it when she lends out a helping hand. I guess I was spoiled by the girls Ive dated, who actually bought me ice cream or drinks when weve hung out. Or who've offered to get the tip. I cant help that Im turned off by fake offers of generosity. Obviously on a first date, money is an issue for women like YOU, not men like me. I have the means to pay, but dont want to be expected to unless ive made it clear that I play to do so. To put out a fake offer to chip in afterwards is just lame. Sure I love when a girl offers to help, but only when its sincere. Its send a totally different message when she didnt mean it at all. You're missing my point Kaylan....but that's OK. And obviously our first dates have been different, and that's OK too. My offers to pay have never been disingenous, regardless of how you've percieved my posts. And I have probably paid more than the guys have because I don't want to owe anyone anything...... But the OP TOLD the girl he didn't have the $ to pay. THAT, my young friend, would be a turn off. And THAT is what I'm talking about. Link to post Share on other sites
Dust Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 You're missing my point Kaylan....but that's OK. And obviously our first dates have been different, and that's OK too. My offers to pay have never been disingenous, regardless of how you've percieved my posts. And I have probably paid more than the guys have because I don't want to owe anyone anything...... But the OP TOLD the girl he didn't have the $ to pay. THAT, my young friend, would be a turn off. And THAT is what I'm talking about. You don't want the girl thinking about money. You know what next date I'm going on will be a pic nic. No bills because I'll just buy the food in advance. Although I don't have one of those gay pic nic baskets or one of those checkered pic nic blankets... I just pick cheap places for first dates. Like a place that will run me under 20 for both meals. Link to post Share on other sites
kaylan Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) You're missing my point Kaylan....but that's OK. And obviously our first dates have been different, and that's OK too. My offers to pay have never been disingenous, regardless of how you've percieved my posts. And I have probably paid more than the guys have because I don't want to owe anyone anything...... But the OP TOLD the girl he didn't have the $ to pay. THAT, my young friend, would be a turn off. And THAT is what I'm talking about. Ok I guess we had a misunderstanding. I thought you were saying youd always be turned off if a guy accepted your offer to pay. In OPs circumstance, now that youve explained it better to me, I agree. Always have enough money to cover what you are doing with someone. If I went out with a chick, and we both knew we were getting certain parts of the date, and then she just happened to not have enough to cover the desert or drinks that she agreed to pay for....Id be pretty annoyed at having to pay for it...and wonder if shes trying to pull wool over my eyes and knew this would happen, but didnt tell me before hand. But I would still take time to get to know her before making a judgment call, just to see if it was an honest mistake and that she isnt a mooch. I actually used to hook up with this girl right before college...and she came over for a romp late one night....she always took a cab over since she hated the buses...and since I lived in NYC, most people I know didnt drive. Anyways, when she called the cab to leave later, she started fumbling through her wallet and told me she accidentally didnt bring enough cash and ask me to spot her. I didnt have any on me, and plus I wasnt gonna anyways cus I didnt trust her given our history of drama. Within a few minutes she magically found a 20 in her wallet. So yeah...I try and stay mindful of people when it comes to money...cus some will try and get over on you Edited January 9, 2012 by kaylan Link to post Share on other sites
colliejoanie Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 You don't want the girl thinking about money. You know what next date I'm going on will be a pic nic. No bills because I'll just buy the food in advance. Although I don't have one of those gay pic nic baskets or one of those checkered pic nic blankets... I just pick cheap places for first dates. Like a place that will run me under 20 for both meals. Cute. My best first date (a guy I ended up engaged to and with whom I'm still friends) took me to a dam with cheese and crackers and a bottle of wine...it was all in a grocery bag. And we sat on his coat. Link to post Share on other sites
Axel Foley Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I think what's off-putting is that woman "expect" that a man should always pay for dates. It's this sense of entitlement that's daunting and in some sense it fuels the fire of men thinking, "well if I'm paying then she better be giving it up" This topic always reminds me of a time that I was out with this woman and we we're at a bar drinking. I put down my card to start a tab and ordered a couple of beers. After a couple of drinks, I went to the bathroom and came back to her collecting change from the bartender as well as him handing her a couple of beers. When I sat, she said, "I order us another round, cool?" Mindblowing. I couldn't tell you how impressed I was that she took it upon herself to buy a round for us without the expectation of me paying for her night. From that point on, I made a sincere attempt to always take care of her when out. That's mere act of generosity was enough for me to treat this woman like the world. simple, yes but it left such an impression on me. I can even admit after her that I've went to the bathroom in a like scenario to come back thinking that my date would have a beer for me - and that would solidify everything, haha moral of the story: woman you want to make a man treat you like diamonds, just buy him a beer. Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 This topic always reminds me of a time that I was out with this woman and we we're at a bar drinking. I put down my card to start a tab and ordered a couple of beers. After a couple of drinks, I went to the bathroom and came back to her collecting change from the bartender as well as him handing her a couple of beers. When I sat, she said, "I order us another round, cool?" Mindblowing. I couldn't tell you how impressed I was that she took it upon herself to buy a round for us without the expectation of me paying for her night. From that point on, I made a sincere attempt to always take care of her when out. That's mere act of generosity was enough for me to treat this woman like the world. simple, yes but it left such an impression on me. I can even admit after her that I've went to the bathroom in a like scenario to come back thinking that my date would have a beer for me - and that would solidify everything, haha moral of the story: woman you want to make a man treat you like diamonds, just buy him a beer. You were impressed because she bought a round??? What sort of women do you hang out with? It's the norm where I live, when I'm out with someone or with friends, we take turn to buy rounds. Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Yeah, I'm not that comfortable with formal dates either until I'm properly seeing someone. Usually do drinks and activities and we share the cost (I'm 39 so of a usually more traditional generation I suppose). I'm pretty fair so I like splitting things down the middle regardless how long I've been seeing someone. Money doesn't grow on trees and I'm uncomfortable when a man feels he has to splash his hard earned cash on me to impress me. It's unnecessary If he is great in bed I'm plenty impressed. Link to post Share on other sites
musemaj11 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I had a date last week where the check came and SAT there without either one of us making a move to even look at it. He ultimately got up to use the restroom, and I used that opportunity to just pay the whole thing myself, as it was clear that he wasn't going to just be a gentleman and grab the whole thing. Won't be seeing him again, I don't think. And not just for that reason. He did it probably just for the fun of it. Obviously he succeeded. He is probably one of those guys who are sick of the Gentleman Tax. It's not a matter of having a vagina. Inviting someone to dinner subjects you to pay for them. If you invite, you pay...penis or vagina. Do you invite guests to your house for dinner or a BBQ and charge them at the door? Yes, it's nice if they offer to chip in or bring something, but if you invite, expect to front the bill, and never expect your GUESTS to pay. Its the polite thing to do to bring something to a gathering that you are invited to. Link to post Share on other sites
musemaj11 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) You were impressed because she bought a round??? What sort of women do you hang out with? It's the norm where I live, when I'm out with someone or with friends, we take turn to buy rounds. He must be American. American women are not like any other women. They are very unique in their extreme sense of entitlement. Im currently living in a third world traditional country where gender equality doesnt exist and its hard for women get to the top in their career. But even here the women voluntarily take the initiative to treat the guy they are going on dates with. I think sense of reciprocity is something universal that is only lacking in American women which explains the severe bitterness of the American men here. Edited January 9, 2012 by musemaj11 Link to post Share on other sites
Axel Foley Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 You were impressed because she bought a round??? What sort of women do you hang out with? It's the norm where I live, when I'm out with someone or with friends, we take turn to buy rounds. Yeah I was definitely impressed. Not because of the actual round but more or less the gesture - especially on a date. Even with friends I'm always appreciative of them buying rounds since I don't think it's mandatory - not really a fan of the whole "take turns" round buying. I'm buying rounds because I'm feeling generous and by no mean expect you to buy me a round at some point of the night (I'm assuming, could be wrong, you didn't mean it that way but I know people who play by that rule) Link to post Share on other sites
Axel Foley Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 He must be American. American women are not like any other women. They are very unique in their extreme sense of entitlement. American. New York City living. Woman everywhere have alittle sense (some extreme) of entitlement but I would agree to some degree that American women have a "very unique" one. Link to post Share on other sites
musemaj11 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 American. New York City living. Woman everywhere have alittle sense (some extreme) of entitlement but I would agree to some degree that American women have a "very unique" one. Whether she lives in Zimbabwe or Mongolia, all women are gold diggers. Its just that the degrees vary, although as someone who has lived in several different countries, I can say that American women tower high above all others. Link to post Share on other sites
Taramere Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) Do you invite guests to your house for dinner or a BBQ and charge them at the door? Yes, it's nice if they offer to chip in or bring something, but if you invite, expect to front the bill, and never expect your GUESTS to pay. That is a good point. If it really is about fairness, and we're meeting up at a mutually agreed venue in a kind of "chummy" sort of way, as opposed to that situation where the guy asks you out, selects his favourite restaurant as the venue etc, then splitting the bill is fine. However if you get the sense that he has suggested going somewhere fairly expensive, has consumed alcohol liberally and is then insisting on splitting the bill in a vaguely hostile "come on...pay the penalty for the feminist movement...pay up!! Because I'm worth it!!" gesture, then of course that will be offputting. Most people, I think, want a date to feel like a pleasant, fun, chilled out experience with somebody they like, rather than some chippy, post-separation negotiation where two parties who hate eachother are trying to be civilised and fair in dividing assets. The whole "picking up the tab" thing can be a bit of a minefield, so I agree with Emilia that it's better to just go to a bar where you take turns buying drinks...rather than one person paying a large amount of cash to feed another person who they might not want to see again. Edited January 9, 2012 by Taramere Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (I'm assuming, could be wrong, you didn't mean it that way but I know people who play by that rule) It's exactly what I meant. In the UK it is considered ill manners not to buy a round when it's your turn, regardless whether male or female Link to post Share on other sites
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