I went dutch at the end. If you were her would you date me again?

[Taramere]

YWhat can make or break a good date for me is when a man opens the bill, calculates my portion of the bill and tells me what I owe. That's just beyond tacky. I've had that happen before and it really does change my perception of the entire date (even if the rest of the date was fine).

 

Yes, this. I remember this guy inviting me out for dinner to one of the most expensive places in town. As we were perusing the menu and ordering drinks he announced in this very authoritative way "Right. I'll get the drinks and main course, you can pay for desserts and coffee."

 

Comparing it to the "inviting a person round for dinner" scenario, that's kind of like saying to somebody "come round for dinner...and bring a dessert or flowers or some other appropriate gesture of goodwill with you." Most people will make a nice appreciative gesture if you're treating them to something, but it's not something you would instruct them to do. If you think they're the kind of person who needs to be told how to behave, why socialise with them in the first place?

 

So yeah, it's that kind of "I don't know if you'll be polite enough to offer to pay a share of the bill, and I don't plan to leave it to chance...so I'm telling you right now how we'll manage the bill situation" which is obnoxious and quite insulting.

[cerridwen]

You can always discern the character of a man when the bill comes to the table on a first date. What he does with regard to the bill could spoil an otherwise good experience.

 

I will always offer to pay half. If I know the chemistry isn't present and don't want to see the man again I will insist on paying half. I make my own money, I'm generous- and when I'm in a relationship with someone, I like to split things down the middle financially.

 

What can make or break a good date for me is when a man opens the bill, calculates my portion of the bill and tells me what I owe. That's just beyond tacky. I've had that happen before and it really does change my perception of the entire date (even if the rest of the date was fine).

 

If you ask a woman out, then ask her outright to split the bill at the end of the date, that's not cool. If I ask a guy out to dinner, I will always grab the bill at the end of the night.

 

The bottom line is- I will offer my share on a date and have no issue splitting things in half. Being told my share? That's a different story.

 

I'm generous with my own wallet, and if I get a sense on a date with a guy that he's tight with his money, it's a turn off.

 

I agree with most of this and do much of it.

A main difference being I prefer not to calculate the bill at a restaurant or elsewhere.

I find it tacky.

In a relationship, I prefer that one of us pick up the whole thing and alternate back and forth.

He pays for breakfast, I get dinner.

 

OP: I wouldn't advise doing that again. The person who invites, pays.

Edited January 9, 2012 by cerridwen

[Art_Critic]

He pays for breakfast, I get dinner.

 

Oh you little gold digger... breakfast at IHOP is more expensive than dinner at Denny's..

You are just trying to stick it to the guy... flipping the script.. haha

 

Did ya ever notice the guys who complain about paying for a dinner dates are the ones who can't figure out why they can never get to a second date ?

 

I'll tell you what..I have always believed that if a woman goes out and blows 30 buck on her nails for me and 50 bucks on her hair and spends 2 hrs getting ready for our date that the very least I could do is be gentlemanly, open her doors and pay for dinner/date.

I also have almost always paid for the baby sitters of the women I have dated who had kids too...

It's the least a guy can do...

 

Such cheapo ass guys.. it's just some money..

Even on a first date if it wasn't going too well you can better believe I also paid and didn't go back on my ideals just becuase you are never going to see the girl again is no reason to be a dickhead.

[cerridwen]

Oh you little gold digger... breakfast at IHOP is more expensive than dinner at Denny's..

You are just trying to stick it to the guy... flipping the script.. haha

 

You're on to me.

You should see me encourage him to get the cup of soup, Art, versus the bowl.

 

Did ya ever notice the guys who complain about paying for a dinner dates are the ones who can't figure out why they can never get to a second date ?

 

Seriously!

 

I'll tell you what..I have always believed that if a woman goes out and blows 30 buck on her nails for me and 50 bucks on her hair and spends 2 hrs getting ready for our date that the very least I could do is be gentlemanly, open her doors and pay for dinner/date.

I also have almost always paid for the baby sitters of the women I have dated who had kids too...

It's the least a guy can do...

 

Such cheapo ass guys.. it's just some money..

Even on a first date if it wasn't going too well you can better believe I also paid and didn't go back on my ideals just because you are never going to see the girl again is no reason to be a dickhead.

 

:love::love: No truer words...

[aj22one]

Oh you little gold digger... breakfast at IHOP is more expensive than dinner at Denny's..

You are just trying to stick it to the guy... flipping the script.. haha

 

Did ya ever notice the guys who complain about paying for a dinner dates are the ones who can't figure out why they can never get to a second date ?

 

I'll tell you what..I have always believed that if a woman goes out and blows 30 buck on her nails for me and 50 bucks on her hair and spends 2 hrs getting ready for our date that the very least I could do is be gentlemanly, open her doors and pay for dinner/date.

I also have almost always paid for the baby sitters of the women I have dated who had kids too...

It's the least a guy can do...

 

Such cheapo ass guys.. it's just some money..

Even on a first date if it wasn't going too well you can better believe I also paid and didn't go back on my ideals just becuase you are never going to see the girl again is no reason to be a dickhead.

 

I don't know man, I don't think not paying makes a guy a dickhead, it's just a personal preference, not a morality thing. Some guys don't like paying, some guys do, never the twain shall meet.

 

FTR, I do always pay for the first few dates, but they're not always expensive dates though. Sometimes they're free or really cheap date ideas but always fun (at least I think so). I figure the chicks who prefer expensive fancy dates aren't really quality and aren't worth my time anyway, so if they don't like it who cares.

[xpaperxcutx]

I'll tell you what..I have always believed that if a woman goes out and blows 30 buck on her nails for me and 50 bucks on her hair and spends 2 hrs getting ready for our date that the very least I could do is be gentlemanly, open her doors and pay for dinner/date.

I also have almost always paid for the baby sitters of the women I have dated who had kids too...

It's the least a guy can do...

 

Such cheapo ass guys.. it's just some money..

Even on a first date if it wasn't going too well you can better believe I also paid and didn't go back on my ideals just becuase you are never going to see the girl again is no reason to be a dickhead.

 

WOW! A_C I'm impressed by your knowledge of the female habits.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Did ya ever notice the guys who complain about paying for a dinner dates are the ones who can't figure out why they can never get to a second date ?

 

I'll tell you what..I have always believed that if a woman goes out and blows 30 buck on her nails for me and 50 bucks on her hair and spends 2 hrs getting ready for our date that the very least I could do is be gentlemanly, open her doors and pay for dinner/date.

I also have almost always paid for the baby sitters of the women I have dated who had kids too...

It's the least a guy can do...

Such cheapo ass guys.. it's just some money..

Even on a first date if it wasn't going too well you can better believe I also paid and didn't go back on my ideals just becuase you are never going to see the girl again is no reason to be a dickhead.

 

Thank You Mr. 1950's for your glorious opinion on why men owe meals to strangers.

 

The effort a woman puts into her appearance is for her own benefit... not mine, and it isn't that much more time or effort than I put into my own clothing and appearance.

 

If you want a traditional relationship with a woman... where she stays home and takes care of the house.... then by all means pay for everything. Otherwise grow a pair. It's Ok to get rejected for this.

 

We developed this social standard when women where not able to enter the work force. Times have changed and so should we. The economy sucks... wages have seen almost no growth in over 20 years... in part because the huge influx of female workers. Supply and demand.

 

Basically what I'm saying is... Stop trying to buy love.

[salparadise]

I'm with Art-Critic on this stuff... a man pays because he's the man and just how it works, at least in the early stages. Some women offer to split the bill, and the gesture is very much appreciated because it shows that she's gracious and doesn't have an expectation. I'll say thanks for offering, but I've got it. If she strongly insists (as has happened but rarely), then I will respect her preference. After we're in a relationship or after several dates, alternating is much more tasteful than splitting but I always make sure that I'm picking up the dinner check and she gets lunch or breakfast.

 

I went out with a woman a number of times who never offered anything. I thought no big deal, she'll probably invite me over for a nice home cooked meal and and I'll consider that fully reciprocal. That never happened either. So, I took her out to a nice restaurant one weekend and she took a call from her teenage son while we were eating. I think he had mummy issues because he often called while we were out. At first it was no biggie, but I was annoyed that she took the call in the middle of a nice meal at this place, knowing that it wasn't an emergency but just another one of his frequent calls. He apparently asked her when she'd be home because she said, I'll be home in a half hour. The check came and still no gesture even though she was obviously intending to cut the evening short. I paid the check and took her home without saying a word, not even chit chat. I wonder if she has any clue as to why she never heard from me again? I'm not sure if she was clueless or only in it for free food. So while I expect to pay, I don't expect it to be taken for granted.

Edited January 9, 2012 by salparadise

[veggirl]

I am fine with going dutch or splitting activities. My first date with my bf, he bought us coffee and paid for the first activity. When we got to our 2nd activity, he went to pay and I said "Let me get this, you just paid" and I paid for it. I certainly didn't think any less of him for letting me pay for that.

 

I think it's disturbing when women expect to be paid for, or have a rule of he needs to pay until we are exclusive, then I will chip in SOMETIMES. How stupid. Or, he bought me 4 dinners. I will cook for him at home now. Bleeech.

 

I don't like the feeling of someone paying for me all the time. It doesn't make the guy a gentleman. Lots of *********s have a lot of money and don't mind paying. Paying all the time says NOTHING about a guys character. How many threads are started by women who will be all "I mean why did he spend $$ on me and then not call?"

 

A man paying doesn't make him a good guy, a gentleman, or anything. Tons of other things about him make him those things. I was happy to pay for half of my first date with my bf, to me it showed him that I was interested as well!

[cerridwen]

Thank You Mr. 1950's for your glorious opinion on why men owe meals to strangers.

 

The effort a woman puts into her appearance is for her own benefit... not mine, and it isn't that much more time or effort than I put into my own clothing and appearance.

 

If you want a traditional relationship with a woman... where she stays home and takes care of the house.... then by all means pay for everything. Otherwise grow a pair. It's Ok to get rejected for this.

 

We developed this social standard when women where not able to enter the work force. Times have changed and so should we. The economy sucks... wages have seen almost no growth in over 20 years... in part because the huge influx of female workers. Supply and demand.

 

Basically what I'm saying is... Stop trying to buy love.

 

Hm.

UF,

I'm not sure I quite understand the hostility with which you met Art's post.

You must be a dickhead.

Love,

Cerridwen

[O'Malley]

 

Basically what I'm saying is... Stop trying to buy love.

 

When someone has taken you out, do you feel it's out of a sense of obligation, or simply that they like to be in your company and feel the cost of the outing is negligible compared to their enjoyment of it?

 

I've been treated and have enjoyed treating, not due to desperation, but because I've wanted to spend time with one particular man and it makes me happy to do something for him. It's appreciated if someone offers to pay for the tip or drinks unsolicited, and I'd be put off just like anyone else if they never offered to chip in after a few outings, but tallying it up like an accountant would be a complete turn off. In good relationships, it all ends up being reciprocated, or at least it should be.

[snug.bunny]

Did ya ever notice the guys who complain about paying for a dinner dates are the ones who can't figure out why they can never get to a second date ?

 

Yes but, I've had guys pay for a first date, and there wasn't a second date. I've offered to put money towards the bill, but they'd decline taking it. Whether or not he paid on the first date or accepted me pitching in a few bucks, had little to do with anything. If I liked him, and he paid for the entire bill, that's just bonus points.

 

I've also had a mutual friend who wanted to set myself up with his friend, we'd go out in a group setting for our mutual friend's birthday or his girlfriend's birthday, whichever, and his friend would pay for my share when the bill came. I said from day one I wasn't interested in him like that, and anytime we'd all hang out like that, he would always grab the bill at the end. I would try to give him $50 bucks or so and he'd keep giving it back to me. And we'd end up having this back and forth discussion me saying that he shouldn't pay for me and him saying "it's really not a big deal, just say thank you".

 

I guess it is a bit backwards though, if a woman likes a guy romantically and if he doesn't pay, it can be viewed as off putting. Maybe I would think he wasn't interested romantically since he let me pay half, I'm not really sure as I've never been in such a situation.

[xpaperxcutx]

So while I expect to pay, I don't expect it to be taken for granted.

 

Everyone should take this to heart, be it girl or guy.

 

Instead of looking at paying for someone's dinner as an expectation, view it as more of a gratuitious gesture that can win you brownie points.

 

I have a guy friend who offers to pay for almost every meal, in fact, sometimes the bill can run as high as the 100s and he still whips out his wallet faster than I can calculate my share of the bill.

 

I have to say it's a habit of his to treat his friends but more often than not, I would try to beat him at his game. I neve expected him to pay, and I still don't expect him to pay. But when he does it, I always thank him and repay him the next time we got together.

 

We're not dating and I've only known him for half a year ( he's a friend of a friend).

 

Now on a date, a guy should pay based only on gesture and not on what traditional roles dictate. It's certainly not a sign of expectation from the girl but it does give you room to leave a good impression on her. If going dutch is more what you had in mind, then voice that concern before hand ( and don't make a scene at the dinner table).

[Oxy Moronovich]

I am fine with going dutch or splitting activities. My first date with my bf, he bought us coffee and paid for the first activity. When we got to our 2nd activity, he went to pay and I said "Let me get this, you just paid" and I paid for it. I certainly didn't think any less of him for letting me pay for that.

 

I think it's disturbing when women expect to be paid for, or have a rule of he needs to pay until we are exclusive, then I will chip in SOMETIMES. How stupid. Or, he bought me 4 dinners. I will cook for him at home now. Bleeech.

 

I don't like the feeling of someone paying for me all the time. It doesn't make the guy a gentleman. Lots of *********s have a lot of money and don't mind paying. Paying all the time says NOTHING about a guys character. How many threads are started by women who will be all "I mean why did he spend $$ on me and then not call?"

 

A man paying doesn't make him a good guy, a gentleman, or anything. Tons of other things about him make him those things. I was happy to pay for half of my first date with my bf, to me it showed him that I was interested as well!

This has got to be the smartest post in this whole thread. I wish people would listen to this. It's so true. You cannot figure out a guy's character by how he pays for dinner. A guy can still pay and act like a jerk.

 

veggirl, you're insightful post is refreshing. I'm sure most guys wish more women thought like this.

[monkey00]

 

I went out with a woman a number of times who never offered anything. I thought no big deal, she'll probably invite me over for a nice home cooked meal and and I'll consider that fully reciprocal. That never happened either. So, I took her out to a nice restaurant one weekend and she took a call from her teenage son while we were eating. I think he had mummy issues because he often called while we were out. At first it was no biggie, but I was annoyed that she took the call in the middle of a nice meal at this place, knowing that it wasn't an emergency but just another one of his frequent calls. He apparently asked her when she'd be home because she said, I'll be home in a half hour. The check came and still no gesture even though she was obviously intending to cut the evening short. I paid the check and took her home without saying a word, not even chit chat. I wonder if she has any clue as to why she never heard from me again? I'm not sure if she was clueless or only in it for free food. So while I expect to pay, I don't expect it to be taken for granted.

I've been in a very similar situation before. And she flaked out on me for the fourth date. It's actually much worse to be with a woman on dates who never even bother to offer. She just takes the guy for granted and continues to accept free meals from him, using Him basically. This is the kind of woman every guy should avoid.

 

A woman who cares about you or respects you normally will try to offer or cover for the whole activity. It's the thought that counts even if you do wind up paying for her.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Hm.

UF,

I'm not sure I quite understand the hostility with which you met Art's post.

You must be a dickhead.

Love,

Cerridwen

 

It wasn't meant to be that hostile, but yes I do tend to be a jerk.

 

The problem is that guys like Art are holding everyone back by trying to preach outdated ideals. I mean damn, I spent $40,000 last year helping my father buy the farm he grew up on. I helped my fiance pay $8,000 worth of college tuition, along with nearly every date, trip, expense... ect. These are people I LOVE. I'm going to be very kind and generous with them.

 

However, I don't find it acceptable that a stranger wants me to pay for the opportunity to speak with them. My time is just as valuable, and getting to know me is worth just as much. I've spent plenty of time with women who have these expectations... and for the most part they just suck (not in the good way).

 

If a guy is ugly, fat, stupid, socially retarded, or wicked old... He should probably pay. It's the only reliable card he can play. I can understand that. I'm none of those things, and I'm not looking for someone focused on money, or someone who can't take care of themselves, or someone who expects to be treated like a princess on a pedestal.

[zengirl]

Oh, to each their own.

 

The idea that guys like Art are "holding everyone back," is nonsense, UF. Guys like Art have a particular idea of dating, as do guys like you. Art is generally open-handed -- he's paying for things above and beyond what most folks would expect and happy to do so, regardless of the outcome; he's happy with his way of doing things, and married, if I recall.

 

Saying you don't want him to be -- because you fear the comparison -- is silly. Even sillier because apparently you have a fiance you gave 8K to -- something many people wouldn't do.

 

I think a good rule is:

 

If you pay for anything, do it because you WANT to and feel good about it, regardless of what happens down the road with that person.

 

If you don't want to pay, don't pay.

 

The end.

 

If that eliminates some folks from your field, good. This is all a giant game of elimination anyway. There are plenty more folks out there.

[Taramere]

So while I expect to pay, I don't expect it to be taken for granted.

 

Yes. Often you get a buzz out of doing something nice for another person...but it's the moment that they expect it of you, or see it as some kind of duty that you should perform (eg because of your gender and theirs) that the desire to treat them starts to diminish very quickly.

[Art_Critic]

I spent $40,000 last year helping my father buy the farm he grew up on. I helped my fiance pay $8,000 worth of college tuition, along with nearly every date, trip, expense... ect. These are people I LOVE. I'm going to be very kind and generous with them.

 

and here a few posts up you said to me "Stop trying to buy love.".. hahaha J/K

[Art_Critic]

So while I expect to pay, I don't expect it to be taken for granted.

 

You make a good point Sal..

It would be up to each individual to know when to call it being taken for granted though..

You and I might not feel that way for a few dates.. but some guys as attested to by reading some of these posts feel that way on the first date, before they even have met the person.. taken for granted that is..

 

What a way to date....

[Untouchable_Fire]

When someone has taken you out, do you feel it's out of a sense of obligation, or simply that they like to be in your company and feel the cost of the outing is negligible compared to their enjoyment of it?

I've been treated and have enjoyed treating, not due to desperation, but because I've wanted to spend time with one particular man and it makes me happy to do something for him. It's appreciated if someone offers to pay for the tip or drinks unsolicited, and I'd be put off just like anyone else if they never offered to chip in after a few outings, but tallying it up like an accountant would be a complete turn off. In good relationships, it all ends up being reciprocated, or at least it should be.

 

So you gauge your value by whether your date pays for you or not?

 

If he doesn't pay that suddenly means you are a bad date? Ugh... that's just as much of a turnoff as somebody bringing a calculator to tally who should pay what.

 

Anyway... your point is moot, because your talking about treating a guy you already know and care about... not someone you just met.

[musemaj11]

Women are so cheap.

 

Money seems so much of a big deal for them.

 

Despite always complaining about paying, I always paid though. But then again I dont take women seriously. To me they are just goods that I paid for.

[Untouchable_Fire]

and here a few posts up you said to me "Stop trying to buy love.".. hahaha J/K

 

Art, I was around in 07' when you got married. I was here when you two had a baby. I know you well enough that I know you personally are not "buying love".

 

I feel most guys who prescribe to your philosophy have less than honorable reasons for it. Which is why I used that term. Not specifically for you.

 

You are simply from a different generation.

[laotzu]

Really turned off by the female perception in this thread, by and large. And I'm a guy who usually pays for the girl, even after a number of dates. Currently, with the girl I'm dating, what usually happens is that we go out for a night, and I pay for dinner ($50 or so) after, she treats me to a beer or something if we go to another place. The next time we go out for dinner, we split the tab 50/50, and then I pay for the next thing we do.

 

If I went out with a girl and paid for her drinks, and then we went someplace cheap for dinner after, I'd expect her to at least offer to pay for half. Frankly, in my cohort (~26-32) they always do. If they didn't, there's a fantastic chance they wouldn't be getting a second date. Or else I'd just try to sleep with them and then leave'em.

 

Maybe that'll be my new rule of thumb. I'm not joking: usually on LS I think the guys sound like idiots, but here we are in 2012 with women just as gainfully employed, more educated, more independent than ever and with fantastic career options... and we're still debating whether or not a guy wanting to go dutch on the first date is somehow wrong? In fact, it's "just easier" if the guy pays for the first couple of dates?

 

Yes, of course. Easier for you, but it's incredibly presumptuous.

[Art_Critic]

You are simply from a different generation.

 

thanks for the clarification...

 

By the way.. you are right.. I am from a different generation.. which is why in some of my earlier posts I made sure I said " younger" in front of some of my sentences..

I am also a blended traditional..

My wife is a SAH Mom raising the child during the day.. but when I'm home I'm all about the chores and child raising too.. unless I'm posting on LS:laugh:

While I would love for her to work and she would love to work a outside job too it is better for the little guy if she doesn't.

We have just chosen to put his interests above ours right now.