I went dutch at the end. If you were her would you date me again?

[Disenchantedly Yours]

I paid for her $10 + tip on drinks. My meal was $7. her drinks were more expensive

 

It really depends on the woman. Some women want to go dutch. Some women wil be happy to pay. One woman here said she rather pay the entire thing then go dutch. And yes, some women will want you to pay. It comes down to finding a woman that aligns with your own dating beliefs. Me? If a man asks me out, then we go dutch, we most likely won't be going out on a second date. Worse, if a man goes out on a date and only brings enough cash to cover himself, that's a little lame. I want a man to court me. Show me that he isn't petty and selfish. It has less to do with what a man can afford and more to do with what a man does with what he can afford.

 

But your above comment shows your mentality more then anything else. You were already tallying up points in your head. Her drink was more then your dinner..by a whole 3 dollars. You already had these numbers rolling around in your head by the end of the date. Heck, you were already on the defensive because she offered to chip in only after the bill was put down. Do you know one time I went out on a lunch date with a guy at a local pizza restaurant and after we were done we were suppose to go and pay at hte counter but I started walking out because I totally just forgot that we didn't pay. To him, it probably looked like I was being entitled just walking out. When I got to the door and turned around and saw him at the register, I remember we didn't pay and I was like "oh crap". I came back and offered to pay my half and he just waved it off but I bet he made all kinds of assumptions about me because of that when I was just making a ditzy mistake. When you are on a date sometimes your mind is wrapped up in other things and your a little nervous that you don't always think about appriopiate behavior. But you were ready to think this girl was being a little selfish. Further, you didn't pay for the drinks because you wanted to give a little something. You paid because you felt like you were suppose to. Then you held it against her a little bit. If you are want to date women, you have to be willing to give things of yourself. That includes emotionally and sometimes that is going to include money. Because dating is about sharing. It's messy. It's not simple. And it seems like a lot of men today are not equppied to share much of themselves unless they are getting something out of the deal. And to me, that isn't what dating is about.

 

I've seen men buy each other drinks with more warmth and friendliness, not caring about how much the drinks where, for each other; then I've seen men offer the same attitude in their dating style toward women. Which really makes me scratch my head.

 

Now an attitude from a woman of "I deserve to be paid for", is one thing. But among my friends, none of us have that attitude. However, it sure is nice when a man treats you liek a woman and not like your the enemy that he has to hold onto his wallet with both hands for. Most women don't want to be treated like your "buddy" with the potential for sex. You can't treat her like you treat your guy friends expecting everything to be exactly like that and expect her to see you romantically too. And when a man doesn't pay, for myself, that says that he just sees me as a potential sex prospect but he can't be bothered spending a couple bucks on me without feeling I'm taken advantage of him. That's his insecurity. And it's not fair to place that on me.

 

 

SO many bitter young men, so little time.

 

Here's a little 411 for ya Muse. A woman who allows - or even expects - her date to pick up the tab for her $15.99 All-You-Can-Eat Shrimp dinner at Red Lobster does NOT fall under the title of "Gold Digger." I find it hysterical that bitter, angry men are always the FIRST to make this ridiculous accusation.

 

A gold digger is a woman who marries and/or pursues a guy with MONEY. Not some $45,000 a year office grunt, not some $35,000 a year blue collar construction worker, and not even an $85,000 a year Engineer. A true gold digger goes after men who are WELL TO DO and who can give them expensive trips and expensive gifts. I don't think there's a woman on the PLANET who would feel she'd 'scored' big time if you bought her 3 drinks or dinner. Jesus.

 

Here's a cut and pasted description of what an actual gold digger REALLY is from FreeDictionary.com:

 

gold digger - a woman who associates with or marries a rich man in order to get valuables from him through gifts or a divorce settlement

adult female, woman - an adult female person (as opposed to a man); "the woman kept house while the man hunted

 

I laugh my ass off every single time I see all these whiners crying that women are "gold diggers" or "princesses" because alot of them have been raised to believe that a man pays for their lousy $20.00 dinner on a date.

 

When you're all in a high income bracket and some woman comes sniffing around looking diamond jewelry, trips to Europe and new cars, maybe THEN you can cry "gold digger." But until then, at least freakin' be aware of what the term REALLY means. Stop embarrassing yourselves.

 

So well said! "gold digger" gets so over used by regular guys that don't even have money.

[fortyninethousand322]

 

So well said! "gold digger" gets so over used by regular guys that don't even have money.

 

It's not "gold digging" obviously, but many women have no problem taking and accepting free meals from men they have no intent on seeing again. I think that's just silly and free riding.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Men pay to impress. All men know women like to get paid for and they dont want to lose their chance by not paying and this is also the reason why I always paid despite hating it. It made me sad that a woman couldnt love me without me paying her.

 

Men insist to pay for the same reason that women give up sex early. They are afraid that if they say 'no', they will lose their chance.

 

Both men and women do things to impress and win over their parnter of choice. When I was younger, getting all prettied up was fun, now it's a chore. I rather go out in sweat pants and a tee with no make up sometimes but I get myself done up because you never know when you might meet someone. I work out because men like me better when I have a nicer body. You don't think women also don't just want to be wnated for who they are? They do. I do. I rather not have to jump through the hoops I have to to have men attracted to me. And even then, sometimes men aren't attracted to me still. But I still ahve to do it. But as long as a man isn't taken advantage of the situation and exploiting me for his personal use, then I don't mind doing things that make him happy. And you should have the same mindset. Within reason, these things aren't "bad" things. Expectations can make you be a better partner if they are reasonable expectations. They certainly teach you to relate to the other gender. Notice the use of "reasonable expectations". Sometimes people of both genders take these things too far. But women want to be wanted for who they are just as much as men do. And women have the same battles where sometimes men don't want them for who they are so much for how they look.

[KathyM]

If you want to make a good impression on a woman, you should insist on paying for the date. I've known a lot of women who dumped a guy because he gave the impression of being cheap or penniless. If you really don't want to pay much for dates, then suggest going to places that don't cost much, but which would be enjoyable activities. It's really not necessary to spend a lot of money on dates, and some of the best dates there are don't cost anything. Going for a walk in a scenic area, engaging in some sport you both like, packing a picnic lunch and going for a drive to someplace interesting are all inexpensive but enjoyable dates. If you can't afford the more expensive stuff, then arrange the less expensive dates, because it makes you look bad when you either can't or won't pay for the date, and when these women are being wined and dined by other men who do pick up the tab, guess who is going to give the better impression and have the better chance at a second or third date?

[Els]

 

 

 

This might be news to you... but dating is in essence a competition. If you are paying somebody to spend time with you... chances are that means you are compensating. THAT is what I said.

 

Do you think that is insulting?

 

You said that people like Art are setting others back. If doing something nice for a date is 'setting others of your own gender back', we should all turn up for dates in torn tees and shorts, belch, fart, talk incessantly about ourselves and then leave when the bill comes if we don't want to 'set others back', I suppose?

 

As for compensating, why is it only paying for dates that you find compensating? If a woman has sex with you early on while other women don't, is she 'compensating' or 'paying you for the attention you lavished on her'? If a woman cooks for you, is she 'compensating'? If she dolls herself up to look nice for you, is she 'compensating'? What is it about date-paying that gets your hackles up so much, when it's just one of the many things that men and women do during the dating process?

[Untouchable_Fire]

Both men and women do things to impress and win over their parnter of choice. When I was younger, getting all prettied up was fun, now it's a chore. I rather go out in sweat pants and a tee with no make up sometimes but I get myself done up because you never know when you might meet someone. I work out because men like me better when I have a nicer body. You don't think women also don't just want to be wnated for who they are?

 

You say these things like men don't have to do them. Do you really think you put more effort into looking good than your date?

 

because it makes you look bad when you either can't or won't pay for the date, and when these women are being wined and dined by other men who do pick up the tab, guess who is going to give the better impression and have the better chance at a second or third date?

 

Do you feel this is entitled behavior? Why or why not?

[Untouchable_Fire]

You said that people like Art are setting others back. If doing something nice for a date is 'setting others of your own gender back', we should all turn up for dates in torn tees and shorts, belch, fart, talk incessantly about ourselves and then leave when the bill comes if we don't want to 'set others back', I suppose?

As for compensating, why is it only paying for dates that you find compensating? If a woman has sex with you early on while other women don't, is she 'compensating' or 'paying you for the attention you lavished on her'? If a woman cooks for you, is she 'compensating'? If she dolls herself up to look nice for you, is she 'compensating'? What is it about date-paying that gets your hackles up so much, when it's just one of the many things that men and women do during the dating process?

 

It IS setting people back, for several reasons. First it teaches young guys that women are superficial and materialistic. It teaches young women to not value themselves or their independence, and to evaluate potential men based on money.

 

YES, women who put out on the first date ARE compensating.

 

What bothers me the absolute most about date paying is this idea that women are all about the money, and this misconception that paying is equal to generosity. It's all fake as hell.

[KathyM]

 

Do you feel this is entitled behavior? Why or why not?

Maybe to some extent it is entitled behavior, but whether it is fair or equitable is beside the point. Women appreciate it and are impressed when you pick up the tab. It shows the guy is generous, and that he values you enough to pay for the date. I'm not saying men should always pay for the date, but if a guy asked a woman out, he should be the one to pay. And he should arrange dates for things that he can afford. If the woman wants to go someplace that is more expensive, then she could ask him out and pay for the two of them. I'm just saying that it is in your best interests to not give the impression that you are cheap or penniless, because women will pick up on that, and avoid you because of it.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

It's not "gold digging" obviously, but many women have no problem taking and accepting free meals from men they have no intent on seeing again. I think that's just silly and free riding.

 

Yes, that is wrong. I have never gone out with a man for a free meal.

 

However, you forget that plenty of men are willing to use women for sex and not see them again. It happens both ways.

[fortyninethousand322]

Maybe to some extent it is entitled behavior, but whether it is fair or equitable is beside the point. Women appreciate it and are impressed when you pick up the tab. It shows the guy is generous, and that he values you enough to pay for the date. I'm not saying men should always pay for the date, but if a guy asked a woman out, he should be the one to pay. And he should arrange dates for things that he can afford. If the woman wants to go someplace that is more expensive, then she could ask him out and pay for the two of them. I'm just saying that it is in your best interests to not give the impression that you are cheap or penniless, because women will pick up on that, and avoid you because of it.

 

At the same time, if a woman has no intention of going out with a guy a second time she should insist on paying for her portion of the meal or whatever it is they did on the date. Otherwise it gives the impression that women are after a free meal and going on dates is just another way of cutting down on the grocery bill.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

You say these things like men don't have to do them. Do you really think you put more effort into looking good than your date?

 

You're kidding right? Yes.

[fortyninethousand322]

Yes, that is wrong. I have never gone out with a man for a free meal.

 

However, you forget that plenty of men are willing to use women for sex and not see them again. It happens both ways.

 

Yeah that's true, but I can't change that about other men, I can only control my own behavior. At the same time though, those guys who use women for sex never seem to be at a shortage for dates which tells you something.

[Oxy Moronovich]

Yes, that is wrong. I have never gone out with a man for a free meal.

 

However, you forget that plenty of men are willing to use women for sex and not see them again. It happens both ways.

So because a guy might use a woman for sex, that's a justification for expecting him to pay? Do women really think like this? Do women say to themselves, "He used me for sex, but at least he paid for my dinner."?

[kaylan]

If you want to make a good impression on a woman, you should insist on paying for the date. I've known a lot of women who dumped a guy because he gave the impression of being cheap or penniless. If you really don't want to pay much for dates, then suggest going to places that don't cost much, but which would be enjoyable activities. It's really not necessary to spend a lot of money on dates, and some of the best dates there are don't cost anything. Going for a walk in a scenic area, engaging in some sport you both like, packing a picnic lunch and going for a drive to someplace interesting are all inexpensive but enjoyable dates. If you can't afford the more expensive stuff, then arrange the less expensive dates, because it makes you look bad when you either can't or won't pay for the date, and when these women are being wined and dined by other men who do pick up the tab, guess who is going to give the better impression and have the better chance at a second or third date?

 

Where are these women? Because I have yet to meet these ladies in my 25 years. Either I am awesome and they still chill with me regardless of the whole paying thing, or I havent ran into these women yet.

 

O wells. I tend to do laid back coffee first dates and reserve real dates for girlfriends...and girlfriends are few and far between for me since I am picky. If I ever caught a wiff on entitlement coming from a woman Id friendzone her immediately...or put her in the "will have sexy time with but will never date" box.

 

The girl I had a thing with during the summer and fall was so entitled and high maintenance when it came to boyfriends. But we never were gonna get that far. She was super cool as a friend to just chill and hook up with. Very low maintenance...but when it came to boyfriends...she expected old school courtship and being taken out and getting gifts...since thats what her ex used to do. Screw that...never mind the fact that she always acted like she wanted to change me.

[donnamaybe]

Im starting to think Im the only guy here who happens to meet women who dont care about this crap.

 

Maybe I just have good luck?

 

Or maybe my pickiness sorts the entitled chicks out...whatevs.

 

Good luck gents =P

Or perhaps you have a personality.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Yeah that's true, but I can't change that about other men, I can only control my own behavior. At the same time though, those guys who use women for sex never seem to be at a shortage for dates which tells you something.

 

And I can't change what other women do but I can only control my own behavior.

 

And women that use men for money don't seem to be for a shortage of dates either. Which tells you something too.

 

That men and women are both capable of picking poor partners and buying into things at face value vs what that person is really about under it all. You don't think guys don't get duped by hot women al lthe time? Of course they do. Just as women get duped by hot guys.

[fortyninethousand322]

And I can't change what other women do but I can only control my own behavior.

 

And women that use men for money don't seem to be for a shortage of dates either. Which tells you something too.

 

That men and women are both capable of picking poor partners and buying into things at face value vs what that person is really about under it all. You don't think guys don't get duped by hot women al lthe time? Of course they do. Just as women get duped by hot guys.

 

I don't know, I've seen a lot of hot women that guys won't even bother with because they know what all hot women are about, and it ain't good either.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Maybe to some extent it is entitled behavior, but whether it is fair or equitable is beside the point.

 

I agree. It fits the definition of entitled behavior, but nearly everyone feels entitled to something.

 

Women appreciate it and are impressed when you pick up the tab. It shows the guy is generous, and that he values you enough to pay for the date.

 

Does that match reality? Does it really mean that a guy is generous and values you because he pays?

 

I'm not saying men should always pay for the date, but if a guy asked a woman out, he should be the one to pay.

 

Why? What kind of guest shows up empty handed? Just because someone invites you doesn't mean you get a free ride.

 

And he should arrange dates for things that he can afford. If the woman wants to go someplace that is more expensive, then she could ask him out and pay for the two of them.

 

If they each paid for themselves, they could both afford to go to a place where you look down at the menu... and not up. That often provides a better experience. Plus, you don't have any hard feelings if the date doesn't go well.

 

I'm just saying that it is in your best interests to not give the impression that you are cheap or penniless, because women will pick up on that, and avoid you because of it.

 

That is exactly why I suggest to men that they don't pay. It weeds out superficial women who think like this. The Anna Nicole Smith's of the world have their place for sure, but a guy sincerely looking for love should avoid this type of female thinking.

[xpaperxcutx]

I agree. It fits the definition of entitled behavior, but nearly everyone feels entitled to something.

 

Does that match reality? Does it really mean that a guy is generous and values you because he pays?

 

 

 

Why? What kind of guest shows up empty handed? Just because someone invites you doesn't mean you get a free ride.

 

 

 

If they each paid for themselves, they could both afford to go to a place where you look down at the menu... and not up. That often provides a better experience. Plus, you don't have any hard feelings if the date doesn't go well.

 

 

 

That is exactly why I suggest to men that they don't pay. It weeds out superficial women who think like this. The Anna Nicole Smith's of the world have their place for sure, but a guy sincerely looking for love should avoid this type of female thinking.

 

Sorry UF, but sometimes I feel like your arguments falls flat. If you're trying to tell guys not to be a sucker, using words like " b!tch" hardly makes your arguments come across as rational or reasonable.

 

If men do not want to pay, the logical way to go about things is not to go out to dinner.

 

I remember I once dated a guy who only ever treated me to walks around the city. Great, I like the company, it was the first time I did anything without using money. However, after a while the act gets old.

 

I wasn't looking to be impressed, I didn't expect to be dined or wined, but he really reminded me of my ex, whom I took care of both physically/emotionally, and financially.

 

Yes, when I date I give people my time. I want to have fun. And sometimes money is spent. i appreciate the gesture, and I'm more than able to reciprocate in kind. ( I have treated guys to dinner, coffee,etc).

 

I would never go into dating with the intention of " gold-digging" and i think it's only reasonable guys don't go into dating thinking they're being duped.

 

If anything, I guess the best way to date would be to date within one's social status. If I'm financially stable, then I expect the guy to be on par.

[FitChick]

Some guys are just cheap. My friend lived with someone like that and even when she offered to pay for both meals, he still didn't want to go with her to an upscale restaurant instead of the usual cheap dives. So she went with a girlfriend and had a wonderful time. She eventually dumped Mr. Cheapskate.

 

Different financial styles are the cause of most breakups whether married or not. Me? I don't mind being a bit frugal so I can splash out on something later. I couldn't marry a man who spent money like water and didn't save for a rainy day, no matter how much money he made.

[KathyM]

At the same time, if a woman has no intention of going out with a guy a second time she should insist on paying for her portion of the meal or whatever it is they did on the date. Otherwise it gives the impression that women are after a free meal and going on dates is just another way of cutting down on the grocery bill.

I don't think women normally go out for the reason of getting a free meal. They go out for the reason of seeing if this new guy is dating material and to get to know the person. How do you think a woman feels who just spent $80 on getting her hair done for this date, another $100 for a new outfit perhaps, and spent an additional hour's time on shaving, polishing her fingernails, toes, makeup, etc., only to find out the guy is not a keeper who is worth another date. It all evens out in the wash. That's the chance you take when you date people. That is why it would be best not to go to some expensive place for a first date so that you don't spend a lot of money on someone who has no long term potential. Of course, the woman would still have spent all of her money on getting ready for the date, regardless of the fact that it's not costing the guy anything or much of anything. Where's the fairness in that?

[fortyninethousand322]

I would never go into dating with the intention of " gold-digging" and i think it's only reasonable guys don't go into dating thinking they're being duped.

 

More often than not, that's exactly what happens though. Women are usually much better at lying and misleading men than vice versa.

 

If anything, I guess the best way to date would be to date within one's social status. If I'm financially stable, then I expect the guy to be on par.

 

On par to the point of being able to pay for all dates. I think it's a great way to cut down on one's grocery bills. Too bad it only works one way though.

[fortyninethousand322]

I don't think women normally go out for the reason of getting a free meal. They go out for the reason of seeing if this new guy is dating material and to get to know the person. How do you think a woman feels who just spent $80 on getting her hair done for this date, another $100 for a new outfit perhaps, and spent an additional hour's time on shaving, polishing her fingernails, toes, makeup, etc., only to find out the guy is not a keeper who is worth another date. It all evens out in the wash. That's the chance you take when you date people. That is why it would be best not to go to some expensive place for a first date so that you don't spend a lot of money on someone who has no long term potential. Of course, the woman would still have spent all of her money on getting ready for the date, regardless of the fact that it's not costing the guy anything or much of anything. Where's the fairness in that?

 

Other than perhaps makeup (which isn't always 100% necessary) I really wouldn't expect a woman to get all fancied up for a date with me. Jeans and a shirt would be fine with me (and I presume she'd already have that outfit so she wouldn't need to buy a new one). That's what I call fair.

[FitChick]

That's why the first date should be a casual daytime date. Like going to a museum or on a hike. You don't have to get dressed up or spend a lot of money.

[KathyM]

Where are these women? Because I have yet to meet these ladies in my 25 years. Either I am awesome and they still chill with me regardless of the whole paying thing, or I havent ran into these women yet.

 

O wells. I tend to do laid back coffee first dates and reserve real dates for girlfriends...and girlfriends are few and far between for me since I am picky. If I ever caught a wiff on entitlement coming from a woman Id friendzone her immediately...or put her in the "will have sexy time with but will never date" box.

 

The girl I had a thing with during the summer and fall was so entitled and high maintenance when it came to boyfriends. But we never were gonna get that far. She was super cool as a friend to just chill and hook up with. Very low maintenance...but when it came to boyfriends...she expected old school courtship and being taken out and getting gifts...since thats what her ex used to do. Screw that...never mind the fact that she always acted like she wanted to change me.

These women are all over, in all age ranges. I'm not suggesting that men be used for their pocketbook or taken advantage of. I'm suggesting that they gear their first dates to something that doesn't cost a lot, such as a walk in the park and a coffee, and pick up the tab for both, since he is the one who invited her out. Not that much to ask, really. If a guy can't even afford a couple of cups of coffee, then he has no business dating. Save the more expensive dates for subsequent dates, when you think there is potential, but spend within your means. And I don't think it's too much to ask for a guy to pick up the tab if he invites her out. She should also reciprocate and invite him out and she pick up the tab for that. I'm just suggesting that it makes a guy look cheap if he will never spring for anything but a cheap date, and if he invites a woman out and expects her to pay. It makes you look cheap, and diminishes your chances of getting another date.