I went dutch at the end. If you were her would you date me again?

[KathyM]

Will you feel that way after marriage, when babies come along and you're doing the bulk of the housework & childcare on top of working full time?

 

This is a new world order Kathy, women risk take by asking men they find attractive out & they pay their own bill and often also treat the man, even on first dates.

 

Oh and those same women have no problem with dieting, exercising, waxing and exhibiting porn star moves in the bed.

I'm a believer in equitable division of household chores and responsibility. Equitable does not mean equal. It's not always going to be equal. If I had a husband who had the attitude that because he services the cars, he shouldn't be expected to help out with the cleaning, it would drive me crazy. A man who had a tit for tat attitude about everything always being equal is not a good thing. I believe in generosity of spirit. People, both partners, taking the initiative to do something for their partner without being asked and without thinking about what they should get in return. Always having that calculator in your head and making sure everything is equal is not a good basis for a relationship. Not everything is going to be equal, and for people to keep tabs on making sure everything is equal is a destructive attitude in a relationship, which is one reason why a guy who insists on everything being equal, such as splitting the check every time, would be a red flag for me.

[snug.bunny]

I can't think of a single guy that would complain about that.

 

I've never actually had that happen though. Closest I've come is my fiance who made a fantastic lunch, and we did a day trip to the beach for a 2nd date.

 

I was kind of kidding about the Red Lobster venue.

 

How romantic of your fiance. I've done things like that, though not on a second date. One instance where I've planned/suggested dates, the restaurant was more of a "Mom and Pop" establishment. I suppose I should have said ahead of time it was my "treat" (since I was the one to initially suggest going out). He paid on the first/second date.

 

On our third date, I wanted to take him to "movies in the park" in a local town by me and was going to bring a nice home packed dinner for us but the venue got switched to a movie at my house somehow (I can't remember at this point who suggested it). I went to the store ahead of time and bought Iced-T (he said he liked it), a fruit platter (he was into health/fitness) and a six pack of gum (he said he always stocked his car with gum). He brought over a case of wine coolers. This was one instance where I dated someone for a few dates and it ended after when asked, he said he wasn't looking ahead with us relationship wise. Perhaps had I been more proactive in terms of paying/planning nicer dates, things would have turned out differently. Or, perhaps it was over something else that he didn't like about me enough to pursue a relationship with.

 

Aside from that, I had only gone out on a handful of first dates that I declined going out again because of various reasons (one guy got hammered on the first date, another guy told me he was suspended from work because he beat up someone and had anger issues). Other instances, a LTR relationship developed. I guess I've had mixed experiences, I don't recall money being an issue as far as who paid for what, but maybe it did play a role with that one instance not developing into a relationship.

 

My LTR in my early twenties, I mainly carried us financially because he was just starting his career and also wasn't good with money (I'd end up loaning him money and got into quite a bit of debt because of it). But when we first met/dated, I was away visiting family and loaned him my car. He called me to tell me he met someone else and left some of my things on his porch and I had to go there to pick it up along with my car. It was humiliating. We ran into each other a year or so later, and he pursued me relentlessly and it developed into a relationship. Aside from that jerk move he pulled, I can honestly say that when we were together after that year apart, he was a terrific boyfriend.

 

Sorry to go off topic, but wanted to share my experiences (the other LTR, I was cheated on). While I've never cheated or have been a "gold digger", some of my past experiences have shaped my thought process in certain ways and I think that's the case for a lot of people (I didn't comment further in the other thread, because there were a bunch of different responses from various members and I was feeling a bit overwhelmed by it).

[Imajerk17]

Interesting. Your story snug.bunny kind of hits on something. See with a lot of women, there are guys who are taking her out and paying for her, and then there are guys who they are the ones loaning money to (or cars of whatever). The latter type of guys seems to be the ones the women seem to be investing in--as you did with the guy you loaned your car to and loaned money to. The former type of guy--all those "one-and-done"s who bought you dinner but you still didn't want to see again anyway--tend to feel as if they are getting the short end of the stick.

 

I don't think men mind spending money on a girl who is into him. As a guy who lived and learned, I can say that it's a sucky feeling to have planned a date and taken out someone who isn't interested and who doesn't offer to pay.

 

Guys, this issue isn't going away though. We have a few choices: Make the first few dates very inexpensive, or see if the woman offers to contribute and if she doesn't, insist that she does. If she is turned off by that, well then she wasn't the one for us.

[KathyM]

Well, I've never claimed that everything in life is 100% equal, but I don't see any reason to perpetuate inequalities that no longer make any sense and which are rooted in an era when women had much less or no income compared to men.

 

I don't find sharing things equally unromantic (and personally I've never felt 'romanced' by having a man pay a meal for me, although I appreciate the gesture). There's no need to split every expense to the penny, but it's the expectation that the man has to pay on the first date purely because he's a man that is just weird to me.

 

Where I live, people do split the tab and the activity is usually decided jointly. It's not a man (or woman) saying 'I'm taking you to X tomorrow' - it starts along the lines of 'how about we do x or y tomorrow, what do you think'. This gives the space for negotiating alternative activities according to everyone's interests and financial situation. I don't see anything wrong with women asking men out, either, I've approached men several times.

Well, my attitude is that the person who initiated and planned the date should be the one who pays, and then the gesture should be reciprocated. It's not based on gender, but on who initiated the date. And calculating the cost and exchanging money on a first date seems unromantic to me, but like I said, to each his own. I'm raising my sons to be chivalrous, to pay for a date when they ask a girl out, to value and respect women, and not use women. They seem to be in the minority in today's world. But women do appreciate them.

[TheBigQuestion]

Well, my attitude is that the person who initiated and planned the date should be the one who pays, and then the gesture should be reciprocated. It's not based on gender, but on who initiated the date. And calculating the cost and exchanging money on a first date seems unromantic to me, but like I said, to each his own. I'm raising my sons to be chivalrous, to pay for a date when they ask a girl out, to value and respect women, and not use women. They seem to be in the minority in today's world. But women do appreciate them.

 

You can raise them to pay for a date when they ask a girl out, but what you're talking about remains unfair and inequitable unless more women starting asking out men on a regular basis. You'd be better off not raising them in outmoded ways that really just reflect an old-fashioned and condescending attitude towards women.

[snug.bunny]

Interesting. Your story snug.bunny kind of hits on something. See with a lot of women, there are guys who are taking her out and paying for her, and then there are guys who they are the ones loaning money to (or cars of whatever). The latter type of guys seems to be the ones the women seem to be investing in--as you did with the guy you loaned your car to and loaned money to. The former type of guy--all those "one-and-done"s who bought you dinner but you still didn't want to see again anyway--tend to feel as if they are getting the short end of the stick.

 

I don't think men mind spending money on a girl who is into him. As a guy who lived and learned, I can say that it's a sucky feeling to have planned a date and taken out someone who isn't interested and who doesn't offer to pay.

 

Guys, this issue isn't going away though. We have a few choices: Make the first few dates very inexpensive, or see if the woman offers to contribute and if she doesn't, insist that she does. If she is turned off by that, well then she wasn't the one for us.

 

It is interesting. I made an investment in that guy, after he pulled what he pulled when we first dated. Aside from his bad money habits during our relationship and a few other things, emotionally he was a GREAT boyfriend. He never cheated during our relationship, he was always very supportive of me, and he was a very kind/decent guy. When we first dated, not so much, but after he fell in love with me I became the most important person in his life. We broke up a few years later, and I was single for a year, and then met a guy I was with for 6 years (the one who cheated). After that relationship ended, is when I pretty much went on a handful of dates.

 

The "one-and-dones" guys, like I said, it was one-and-done because one guy got hammered on our first date and the other one scared the living crap out of me. Another time I was supposed to go on a "first date" with someone I met, but was stood up, so the date never happened. There was also another guy who I met up with, we were both with a group of people, so it really wasn't a "date", but he did invite me out for dinner afterwards (and paid) and the next time we went out (same thing, group of people), he proceeded to hook-up with a girl while I was in the bathroom (one of the friends I was there with told me she saw him kissing another girl).

 

So, that ended that.

[KathyM]

I assume you don't do business meetings over food very often.

 

I go on 2-3 business lunches/dinners per week. I have never seen someone try to split a check unless there are several companies working together to woo the customer.

 

Your definition of romantic is deeply personal and completely up to you. Just bear in mind that when you rely on Hollywood to define your ideal it's not going to be very grounded in reality.

Everybody has their own reality, their own values and ideals. I think it's nice to show generosity and not expect anything in return. I think it's nice to treat a person whom you've invited out somewhere. I don't think that's a concept I got from Hollywood, but from the way I was raised by my parents.

[KathyM]

You can raise them to pay for a date when they ask a girl out, but what you're talking about remains unfair and inequitable unless more women starting asking out men on a regular basis. You'd be better off not raising them in outmoded ways that really just reflect an old-fashioned and condescending attitude towards women.

My guys treat women with respect. That is not condescending, that is valuing someone and showing generosity towards a woman.

[kaylan]

It's a good point. I always think back to all the agism threads that pop up around here about how much more worthless women are as they get older, or fat "women" threads (very few women here ever post about being angry about fat men), or all the dozen pieces of advice I see men around here 'offer" about a woman making sure to work out and keep in shape.

I agree the agism is stupid. I usually have to remind guys that they get old an unattractive to, no matter how much they try and delude themselves differently. The fat threads are a bit much. But its not just the guys creating them. Women create them too, but only because society makes them feel self conscious. So I guess you could say guys also create those threads lol.

 

Id say women care a lot about an attractive appearance too, but its just that women wont complain about it on forums the same way the guys here complain about everything. That being all said, the thread I created regarding fitness targeted men and women. I think everyone should stay sexy and healthy.

I know that when I go out in public and I just go out in old clothes to run errands vs when I take time with my clothes and make up, there is a significant difference in how men specifically treat me.

This is true for everyone.

 

When I used to go to class in just a tee shirt and basketball shorts without doing my hair, Id hardly get a look. I looked bummy. When I wore a nice polo shirt, blue jeans, and wore my hair back Id get more smiles from girls.

[Untouchable_Fire]

On our third date, I wanted to take him to "movies in the park" in a local town by me and was going to bring a nice home packed dinner for us but the venue got switched to a movie at my house somehow (I can't remember at this point who suggested it). I went to the store ahead of time and bought Iced-T (he said he liked it), a fruit platter (he was into health/fitness) and a six pack of gum (he said he always stocked his car with gum). He brought over a case of wine coolers. This was one instance where I dated someone for a few dates and it ended after when asked, he said he wasn't looking ahead with us relationship wise. Perhaps had I been more proactive in terms of paying/planning nicer dates, things would have turned out differently. Or, perhaps it was over something else that he didn't like about me enough to pursue a relationship with.

Aside from that, I had only gone out on a handful of first dates that I declined going out again because of various reasons (one guy got hammered on the first date, another guy told me he was suspended from work because he beat up someone and had anger issues). Other instances, a LTR relationship developed. I guess I've had mixed experiences, I don't recall money being an issue as far as who paid for what, but maybe it did play a role with that one instance not developing into a relationship.

 

I've been cheated on by at least two women... though neither of them dumped me. That is kind of frustrating, because had I not caught them they might have gone all the way to marriage with me. I don't think it would hurt my feelings much to be dumped for another guy. However, being used and going through another divorce is straight up emotional abuse. I passionately hate cheats of any gender.

 

I can't say money played a role in that guy not wanting to go Long Term with you, there are always so many other factors... but it may not have helped. I know some people will cut you out for having just 1 minor thing wrong, while others take a more big picture approach. I think men and women who get asked out a lot tend to save time by using asinine criteria to weed people out quickly. I think the moment you lose sight of the big picture... your going to start making huge dating mistakes.

 

I actually went on a date with this really pretty girl who brought her ferret in a handbag. It was a nice restaurant, so I'm kind of shocked we didn't get kicked out. She did a short ventriloquism act pretending the ferret was introducing itself to me. I thought she was totally bonkers, but for the most part she was really nice and genuine. I actually went on a second date with her and it was fun. I still keep in contact with her as a friend. She is very passionate about ferrets, but otherwise normal. Turns out she was just nervous. My point is... give people the benefit of the doubt and many times they will surprise you.

 

Of course if they have anger issues and just got out of jail... best not to play around with that one.

[kaylan]

I was kind of kidding about the Red Lobster venue.

 

How romantic of your fiance. I've done things like that, though not on a second date. One instance where I've planned/suggested dates, the restaurant was more of a "Mom and Pop" establishment. I suppose I should have said ahead of time it was my "treat" (since I was the one to initially suggest going out). He paid on the first/second date.

 

On our third date, I wanted to take him to "movies in the park" in a local town by me and was going to bring a nice home packed dinner for us but the venue got switched to a movie at my house somehow (I can't remember at this point who suggested it). I went to the store ahead of time and bought Iced-T (he said he liked it), a fruit platter (he was into health/fitness) and a six pack of gum (he said he always stocked his car with gum). He brought over a case of wine coolers. This was one instance where I dated someone for a few dates and it ended after when asked, he said he wasn't looking ahead with us relationship wise. Perhaps had I been more proactive in terms of paying/planning nicer dates, things would have turned out differently. Or, perhaps it was over something else that he didn't like about me enough to pursue a relationship with.

 

Aside from that, I had only gone out on a handful of first dates that I declined going out again because of various reasons (one guy got hammered on the first date, another guy told me he was suspended from work because he beat up someone and had anger issues). Other instances, a LTR relationship developed. I guess I've had mixed experiences, I don't recall money being an issue as far as who paid for what, but maybe it did play a role with that one instance not developing into a relationship.

My LTR in my early twenties, I mainly carried us financially because he was just starting his career and also wasn't good with money (I'd end up loaning him money and got into quite a bit of debt because of it). But when we first met/dated, I was away visiting family and loaned him my car. He called me to tell me he met someone else and left some of my things on his porch and I had to go there to pick it up along with my car. It was humiliating. We ran into each other a year or so later, and he pursued me relentlessly and it developed into a relationship. Aside from that jerk move he pulled, I can honestly say that when we were together after that year apart, he was a terrific boyfriend.

 

Sorry to go off topic, but wanted to share my experiences (the other LTR, I was cheated on). While I've never cheated or have been a "gold digger", some of my past experiences have shaped my thought process in certain ways and I think that's the case for a lot of people (I didn't comment further in the other thread, because there were a bunch of different responses from various members and I was feeling a bit overwhelmed by it).

 

 

Ugh...why would you ever give someone another chance after disrespecting you in that way.

 

I mean you let him mooch, and then he decides to meet someone else, and also makes you have to pick up your car and your stuff, even though HE borrowed it. He should of brought it back. D!cck move for sure, and Im surprised you put up with that.

 

Im really surprised by some of the behavior people on this board let their exes get away with. I guess I just have low patience for bs. I only give people one shot to have a chance with me. If they pass it up, no matter of begging will work. If they really wanted me theyd have me the first time. I made a mistake once giving someone another chance to prove themselves to me, and Ive learn from my situation and others, that when someone really wants ya, they wont pass ya up.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Well, my attitude is that the person who initiated and planned the date should be the one who pays, and then the gesture should be reciprocated. It's not based on gender, but on who initiated the date. And calculating the cost and exchanging money on a first date seems unromantic to me, but like I said, to each his own. I'm raising my sons to be chivalrous, to pay for a date when they ask a girl out, to value and respect women, and not use women. They seem to be in the minority in today's world. But women do appreciate them.

 

Are you sure that's what your boys are learning?

 

You are teaching them the behavior... they will learn the meaning on their own. I promise you that the girls they deal with will not be angels. Your basically teaching them that they need to relate to women through money. . Maybe you should rethink your approach to this. Your basically doing the same thing my parents did... and where the rubber meets the road in High School... it just taught me that girls are only interested in what I can provide.

[snug.bunny]

I've been cheated on by at least two women... though neither of them dumped me. That is kind of frustrating, because had I not caught them they might have gone all the way to marriage with me. I don't think it would hurt my feelings much to be dumped for another guy. However, being used and going through another divorce is straight up emotional abuse. I passionately hate cheats of any gender.

 

I can't say money played a role in that guy not wanting to go Long Term with you, there are always so many other factors... but it may not have helped. I know some people will cut you out for having just 1 minor thing wrong, while others take a more big picture approach. I think men and women who get asked out a lot tend to save time by using asinine criteria to weed people out quickly. I think the moment you lose sight of the big picture... your going to start making huge dating mistakes.

 

I actually went on a date with this really pretty girl who brought her ferret in a handbag. It was a nice restaurant, so I'm kind of shocked we didn't get kicked out. She did a short ventriloquism act pretending the ferret was introducing itself to me. I thought she was totally bonkers, but for the most part she was really nice and genuine. I actually went on a second date with her and it was fun. I still keep in contact with her as a friend. She is very passionate about ferrets, but otherwise normal. Turns out she was just nervous. My point is... give people the benefit of the doubt and many times they will surprise you.

 

Of course if they have anger issues and just got out of jail... best not to play around with that one.

 

Sorry to hear that. Well, it's good that you found out, and didn't end up marrying either.

 

Maybe there is something to be said for the guys who insist on paying for the first few dates, just based on my own personal experience. Maybe women should be looking for the ones who don't.

 

Bringing a ferret in a handbag...yes that is a bit quirky! I think giving the people the benefit of the doubt though can go one or two ways, a positive experience, or a negative one. Can one ever really fully protect himself/herself, no, I don't think we can... We can try to make smarter choices, I think I did when I declined the second date with the really drunk guy and the guy who was suspended from work for beating up someone. Not going through with marriage to the guy I was with for 6 years. And, ending a "dating" relationship, with someone I suspected and confirmed wasn't interested in a "relationship".

 

Ugh...why would you ever give someone another chance after disrespecting you in that way.

 

I mean you let him mooch, and then he decides to meet someone else, and also makes you have to pick up your car and your stuff, even though HE borrowed it. He should of brought it back. D!cck move for sure, and Im surprised you put up with that.

 

Probably because I was young and dumb. But just to be clear, he didn't mooch off of me prior to getting into a relationship with someone else, I had only loaned him my car at that point while I was away. Still, a sh*ty thing to do and I probably should have made him bring my stuff and my car, but I was so furious after it happened that I just wanted to go get my things and be done with it. When we ran into each other a year later, and did finally get into a relationship, he was great so it was water under the bridge at that point.

 

Im really surprised by some of the behavior people on this board let their exes get away with. I guess I just have low patience for bs. I only give people one shot to have a chance with me. If they pass it up, no matter of begging will work. If they really wanted me theyd have me the first time. I made a mistake once giving someone another chance to prove themselves to me, and Ive learn from my situation and others, that when someone really wants ya, they wont pass ya up.

 

I agree, to a point. I think that's why my tolerance level for certain things after has decreased, and if/when I saw certain behaviors, I was out of there.

[KathyM]

Are you sure that's what your boys are learning?

 

You are teaching them the behavior... they will learn the meaning on their own. I promise you that the girls they deal with will not be angels. Your basically teaching them that they need to relate to women through money. . Maybe you should rethink your approach to this. Your basically doing the same thing my parents did... and where the rubber meets the road in High School... it just taught me that girls are only interested in what I can provide.

No, I'm teaching them to select women who have values themselves, who respect themselves, and who are kind and caring people. I'm trying to teach them to be very selective in terms of a woman's character and values, and they are getting the message. My oldest son, recently graduated from college and now married, has a wonderful wife who values him for his character first and foremost, as well as his personality, sense of humor, charm, good looks, intelligence, etc. When they dated and became engaged, he was a college student with a part-time job. Money was certainly not what attracted her to him, but it was his caring attitude, among a lot of other things. My two younger sons have this same attitude--that you treat women well in all respects. They don't have much money either--they are college students with part-time jobs. Women like them because they are kind and caring guys who have a lot to offer. You seem to have the attitude that all women are only after a guy's pocketbook. That's really not true. Women of quality are not interested in that, but they do want to be treated with kindness and generosity of spirit. My husband was a broke college student with a part-time job when I married him. I appreciated him for his values and chivalrous, generous spirit. I think you are doing yourself a disservice to have these stereotypes about women that all they care about is your wallet. There may be some like that, but I don't believe most women are like that.

[soserious1]

I'm a believer in equitable division of household chores and responsibility. Equitable does not mean equal. It's not always going to be equal. If I had a husband who had the attitude that because he services the cars, he shouldn't be expected to help out with the cleaning, it would drive me crazy. A man who had a tit for tat attitude about everything always being equal is not a good thing. I believe in generosity of spirit. People, both partners, taking the initiative to do something for their partner without being asked and without thinking about what they should get in return. Always having that calculator in your head and making sure everything is equal is not a good basis for a relationship. Not everything is going to be equal, and for people to keep tabs on making sure everything is equal is a destructive attitude in a relationship, which is one reason why a guy who insists on everything being equal, such as splitting the check every time, would be a red flag for me.

 

So basically then, you expect men to continue with the practice of paying for first dates but you'd have a problem with men extending tradition into the home?

 

Lady they name streets after people like you "One way" you admire "generosity of spirit" ? hows about asking men out on 1st dates & picking up the tab so they aren't stuck always having to do it

Edited January 13, 2012 by soserious1

[musemaj11]

So basically then, you expect men to continue with the practice of paying for first dates but you'd have a problem with men extending tradition into the home?

 

Lady they name streets after people like you "One way" you admire "generosity of spirit" ? hows about asking men out on 1st dates & picking up the tab so they aren't stuck always having to do it

It really amazes me that women in general (except few) tend to have really bizarre sense of justice. They seem to be helplessly incapable of seeing from the other side's point of view.

 

For example Kathy kept saying that she believes in the 'whoever invites pays' rule while at the same time admitting that she had never actually asked a guy out on a date and she seemingly truly cannot see whats wrong with her train of thought.

[Untouchable_Fire]

No, I'm teaching them to select women who have values themselves, who respect themselves, and who are kind and caring people. I'm trying to teach them to be very selective in terms of a woman's character and values, and they are getting the message. My oldest son, recently graduated from college and now married, has a wonderful wife who values him for his character first and foremost, as well as his personality, sense of humor, charm, good looks, intelligence, etc. When they dated and became engaged, he was a college student with a part-time job. Money was certainly not what attracted her to him, but it was his caring attitude, among a lot of other things. My two younger sons have this same attitude--that you treat women well in all respects. They don't have much money either--they are college students with part-time jobs. Women like them because they are kind and caring guys who have a lot to offer. You seem to have the attitude that all women are only after a guy's pocketbook. That's really not true. Women of quality are not interested in that, but they do want to be treated with kindness and generosity of spirit. My husband was a broke college student with a part-time job when I married him. I appreciated him for his values and chivalrous, generous spirit. I think you are doing yourself a disservice to have these stereotypes about women that all they care about is your wallet. There may be some like that, but I don't believe most women are like that.

 

I know the vast majority of women are not just chasing money. It definitely took me some time to figure that out on my own.

 

I actually took the same path as your oldest son. I got married in college. I worked a part time job. My mother would have said the same things about me and my x/Wife.

 

The chances of making it to your 40th anniversary are less than 10% for people my age. I suspect even lower still for guys your son's age. I hope he beats the odds! I think if his marriage stands the test of time you can be proud of yourself for sure. Very few parents teach their kids the skills needed for keeping a marriage together. My parents taught me to cherish and respect women, but that simply isn't enough.

[KathyM]

So basically then, you expect men to continue with the practice of paying for first dates but you'd have a problem with men extending tradition into the home?

 

Lady they name streets after people like you "One way" you admire "generosity of spirit" ? hows about asking men out on 1st dates & picking up the tab so they aren't stuck always having to do it

Everybody has their preferences when it comes to dating. I prefer reciprocity instead of splitting the tab down the middle on every date. Nothing wrong with that, it's just a personal preference. If you want to be the one to invite men out and split the check down the middle for every date, you're certainly entitled to do so. I think a man who offers to pay for the meal or coffee or whatever on the first date indicates a generosity that is admirable. Most women would appreciate that, except perhaps an ultra-feminist that insists on total equality at all times and would be insulted if a man ever did something for her. Wouldn't you appreciate it if a man offered to pay for the date? I sure would.

[KathyM]

I know the vast majority of women are not just chasing money. It definitely took me some time to figure that out on my own.

 

I actually took the same path as your oldest son. I got married in college. I worked a part time job. My mother would have said the same things about me and my x/Wife.

 

The chances of making it to your 40th anniversary are less than 10% for people my age. I suspect even lower still for guys your son's age. I hope he beats the odds! I think if his marriage stands the test of time you can be proud of yourself for sure. Very few parents teach their kids the skills needed for keeping a marriage together. My parents taught me to cherish and respect women, but that simply isn't enough.

I'm not sure where you're getting those divorce figures from. As I understand it, 50% of all marriages end in divorce, with the rates rising according to the number of marriages a person has, with the rate being 75% for second marriages, 85% for third, etc. I've tried to provide a good example for my kids on chosing a spouse wisely, keeping a marriage healthy, and staying together despite difficulties and hardships. They've had good role models in their life with their family and extended family. My own parents stayed with their original spouse for their entire life. And I've tried to teach my kids the importance of treating women well, and treating your wife with respect and generosity and faithfulness. So far, so good. I think they have a good foundation to build a relationship with.

[soserious1]

Everybody has their preferences when it comes to dating. I prefer reciprocity instead of splitting the tab down the middle on every date. Nothing wrong with that, it's just a personal preference. If you want to be the one to invite men out and split the check down the middle for every date, you're certainly entitled to do so. I think a man who offers to pay for the meal or coffee or whatever on the first date indicates a generosity that is admirable. Most women would appreciate that, except perhaps an ultra-feminist that insists on total equality at all times and would be insulted if a man ever did something for her. Wouldn't you appreciate it if a man offered to pay for the date? I sure would.

 

Again, if you go on that 1st date & decide there won't be a second date, where is the reciprocity there?

 

 

No, I wouldn't "appreciate it" if men offered to pay, I have a job that pays more than many men earn, I'm much more comfortable paying my own way and/or picking up the full bill.

[KathyM]

Again, if you go on that 1st date & decide there won't be a second date, where is the reciprocity there?

That is why first dates should be something that doesn't cost much, if anything.

 

 

No, I wouldn't "appreciate it" if men offered to pay, I have a job that pays more than many men earn, I'm much more comfortable paying my own way and/or picking up the full bill.

To each his own. I would appreciate the gesture if a man offered to pick up the bill, and would think it indicates a generous man.

[xxoo]

No, I wouldn't "appreciate it" if men offered to pay, I have a job that pays more than many men earn, I'm much more comfortable paying my own way and/or picking up the full bill.

 

soserious, does paying make you feel more in control of the relationship?

 

I wonder how you can be so averse to the man paying, but also respect the men that you pay for. If it is so awful to accept a meal, do you look down on them for accepting?

[soserious1]

soserious, does paying make you feel more in control of the relationship?

 

I wonder how you can be so averse to the man paying, but also respect the men that you pay for. If it is so awful to accept a meal, do you look down on them for accepting?

 

I have been earning my own money in one way or another since I was 13 yrs old. I learned early on that money equals more freedom of choice.I'm not interested in "romantic hikes" or "coffee dates" I work hard, I want good wine, a decent meal, maybe a comedy or jazz club, I'm more than happy to pay the cost of such an evening. No, I don't look down on the man, his company is enhancing my enjoyment of these events, it's part of the cost of my entertainment.

[soserious1]

To each his own. I would appreciate the gesture if a man offered to pick up the bill, and would think it indicates a generous man.

 

You would sit there & allow the guy to pick up the full bill, without offering to pay for your half knowing you had zero intentions of seeing him again?

 

So much for "generosity of spirit"

[xxoo]

I have been earning my own money in one way or another since I was 13 yrs old. I learned early on that money equals more freedom of choice.I'm not interested in "romantic hikes" or "coffee dates" I work hard, I want good wine, a decent meal, maybe a comedy or jazz club, I'm more than happy to pay the cost of such an evening. No, I don't look down on the man, his company is enhancing my enjoyment of these events, it's part of the cost of my entertainment.

 

Would you consider dating a man who felt the same, and was more than happy to pay for the same reasons?