Gf wants to wait till marriage when she's not a virgin

[phineas]

I am looking at both sides.

 

He should not be with her if the relationship is not meeting his current needs. Period.

 

Exactly.

He has no right to tell her she needs to have sex with him, but she has no right to expect him to stick around.

 

There is a small group of people on this forum always saying it's ok for the woman to choose to not have sex. (which I agree with)

But if a guy don't want to hang around he's just in it for the sex & that's total BS.

 

I personally would of ended it with this woman especially after she pulled the bait & switch by waiting a few months in to drop this bomb.

 

There are plenty of women out there that want to have sex with me so why wouldn't I date them?

[Disenchantedly Yours]

OP stuck around for 2 months already, if he was "entitled" don't ya think he would have found a better gig somewhere else? For the sex entitled, there's a wide variety of promiscuous women, and prostitutes to frequent (I'm sure you're against the latter).

 

Read the OP again. She isn't a virgin, she's had sex before. In normal, non-religious parts of the world people generally have sex prior to marriage. For a wide variety of reasons. Someone who has had sex in the past without being married and then suddenly changes their mind as soon as they start dating you does sound fishy. You're barking up the wrong "sex entitlement" tree here.

 

Oh well..if she had sex before then that means she can't make any other choice about her sexuality going forward!

 

You are making the assumption that her choice had something to do with him. She might have made that choice before she even met him. Regardless, it's ridiculous to say someone that had sex before now can't choose to be abstinent.

[ThaWholigan]

You are making the assumption that her choice had something to do with him.

 

This ^^. Clouded by their own experiences.

[xxoo]

Men want sex, women want all the rest. You cannot compare the 2 at all.

 

That's overly simplified....

 

Still generalizing, but in a relationship men need sex to feel close and desire all the rest. And women need all the rest to feel close and desire sex.

 

When it is all working well, both partners highly desire sex AND all the rest.

 

But I agree that, in a relationship, sex is a vital way for a man to feel loved, while women can feel loved for a longer while with "all the rest". Generally speaking.

[phineas]

Well, so thats that. Men just want sex.

 

If that were true, then why does marriage exist?

 

How do you know the OP is giving his GF everything she wants? Who said he is meeting her needs? Clearly he isn't because they disagree on this issue. And who knows if he is even emotionally meeting her needs. We don't really know that.

 

How many months has she been with him?

Why would a woman with the ability to attract 6 sexual partners in her past stay months with a guy who wasn't giving her what she wanted when she can clearly go out & find a man who will?

 

Why drop the "no sex until marriage" bomb on this guy 2 months in if he wasn't seeing to her needs?

 

So either he is giving her what she wants or she is just using him.

[aj22one]

Oh well..if she had sex before then that means she can't make any other choice about her sexuality going forward!

 

You are making the assumption that her choice had something to do with him. She might have made that choice before she even met him. Regardless, it's ridiculous to say someone that had sex before now can't choose to be abstinent.

 

I never said she couldn't, but her choices have consequences, and yes her choices to me sound fishy and I would advise anyone (man or woman) who encountered such a person to regard their behavior with suspicion. You don't have to agree with me, but I don't have to agree with you either.

[phineas]

That's overly simplified....

 

Still generalizing, but in a relationship men need sex to feel close and desire all the rest. And women need all the rest to feel close and desire sex.

 

When it is all working well, both partners highly desire sex AND all the rest.

 

But I agree that, in a relationship, sex is a vital way for a man to feel loved, while women can feel loved for a longer while with "all the rest". Generally speaking.

 

Of course i'm generalizing. There are mutual aspects of a relationship. Having a partner you can trust, team work, ect.

 

I'm breaking it down to what drives a man to commit to a relationship (for the most part)

 

I'm also looking from my point of view being a 40yr old divorced man with two small children.

 

My personal experience in this type of situation can be summarized by asking myself:

 

"is she having sex with me?"

"no"

"Then who is she having sex with"

 

I can promise you, there has always been a male name attached to that answer.

 

again my personal experience. I've never met a celibate woman. Just women that didn't want to have sex with me.

And i'm talking after months of dating where I was only seeing her & we were supposedly exclusive.

[aj22one]

 

My personal experience in this type of situation can be summarized by asking myself:

 

"is she having sex with me?"

"no"

"Then who is she having sex with"

 

I can promise you, there has always been a male name attached to that answer.

 

again my personal experience. I've never met a celibate woman. Just women that didn't want to have sex with me.

And i'm talking after months of dating where I was only seeing her & we were supposedly exclusive.

 

That's been my personal experience as well, and with the exception of very religious individuals I've never heard of it going down any other way.

[xxoo]

There are plenty of women out there that want to have sex with me so why wouldn't I date them?

 

The simplest reason would be because there is something special about this woman, making her a more desirable partner despite the delayed sex.

 

That is her reasoning, I'm guessing.

 

We are not interchangeable, afterall!

[xxoo]

I've never met a celibate woman. Just women that didn't want to have sex with me.

And i'm talking after months of dating where I was only seeing her & we were supposedly exclusive.

 

Mindboggling

 

Some people really suck

 

I'm sorry that happened to you, and I can see how it would color your perpective on the subject.

[phineas]

The simplest reason would be because there is something special about this woman, making her a more desirable partner despite the delayed sex.

 

That is her reasoning, I'm guessing.

 

We are not interchangeable, afterall!

 

No, you are not interchangeable however there is not one woman more "special" than the other.

[phineas]

Mindboggling

 

Some people really suck

 

I'm sorry that happened to you, and I can see how it would color your perpective on the subject.

 

I now know that these women really just weren't all that into me & I've learned to recognize this & admittedly taken it a step further to the point where if a woman isn't showing an eagerness to have sex with me after a certain point I will move on because I personally need someone who is attracted to me as I am to them or I will loose interest & attraction.

 

I can't control that.

 

That point is usually where they want to cuddle, expect me to not talk to other women & they start to unload their problems on me.

[thatone]

As a matter of fact, it was her who broke off our 1.5 yr. relationship.

Why would you think that?

 

I felt her withdrawl, and even tried to start up with someone else I knew when I was younger.

Believe me, would've left had this other woman given me the go-ahead, but of course, stayed right where I was and watched the relationship slowly fade away....

 

The LTR woman clearly wasn't the one for me anyway.

Of course, new to relationships in my mid-late 20s, I was no catch either, naive and made a lot of mistakes.

 

She once told me she loved me (during a passionate moment) then 5 mins. later asked if she could "take it back.":mad:

That and some other things made me realize this wasn't the woman for me.

 

This was a woman I started dating through a col-call...

 

Am glad I didn't end up with her.

 

Posted that story to say there are reasons someone might not want to get sexually involved.

sex creates a feeling of attachment/commitment to the man they just had sex with in women. in men the feeling is nothing more than pleasure. that's not speculation or hoodoo voodoo, btw, it's a scientific fact. simple matter of the hormones released into the brain during sex, they are different.

 

you think non-virginal women don't know that? of course they do. before the deed is done they have at least the illusion of control. give one two orgasms and that's all out the window, they'll start complimenting you for doing less for them.

 

until then they can use you for entertainment and attention all while keeping one foot in the door looking for a better option and you'll be none the wiser.

 

that's why you don't commit to women who aren't committed to you, and there's only one way to know they're committed to you.

 

if a woman who you are dating for an extended length of time is refusing to have sex with you, what does that logically tell you? she doesn't want to become attached to you. why would she not want to become attached to you? because she's planning on leaving you when a better option rears its head. this isn't rocket science.

 

you got played, my friend. but don't feel too bad, it's happened to all of us at some point. take it as a lesson learned, and never to be repeated.

Edited January 16, 2012 by thatone

[carhill]

Here's what I wrote on the topic in another thread:

 

"Just as I always pay for the first few dates, I always proactively extend care, empathy and intimacy first with any woman I find attractive enough to date. Reading posts in this thread caused a light bulb to go on regarding this dynamic, which feeds into the 'let me love you' theory I've been working on to better fine-tune my people-picker. LS is a great place to learn

 

The short version is, if a woman is intimate with me but chooses to not be sexual with me, then she's letting me love her, rather than loving me in a mutually synergistic and healthy way. I use the word 'love' to shorten all the words and actions of intimacy. The relationship is unbalanced and unhealthy. Clarity."

 

I'll clarify it further by examining what I perceived as intimacy in the moment to be really only a facilitation of 'getting my love', much as a man 'sweet talks' a woman to get her into bed. It's not real nor is backed up by consistent actions.

 

This dynamic is relevant primarily to those people who integrate intimacy, love and sex all into one package of psychology. For those who compartmentalize, it's really irrelevant. These two differing psychological styles within the realm of sexual heterosexual relationships are another important component of compatibility.

[Emilia]

 

This dynamic is relevant primarily to those people who integrate intimacy, love and sex all into one package of psychology. For those who compartmentalize, it's really irrelevant. These two differing psychological styles within the realm of sexual heterosexual relationships are another important component of compatibility.

 

Yes you are spot on. I'll remember those first two sentences for future comments.

[thatone]

Here's what I wrote on the topic in another thread:

 

"Just as I always pay for the first few dates, I always proactively extend care, empathy and intimacy first with any woman I find attractive enough to date. Reading posts in this thread caused a light bulb to go on regarding this dynamic, which feeds into the 'let me love you' theory I've been working on to better fine-tune my people-picker. LS is a great place to learn

 

The short version is, if a woman is intimate with me but chooses to not be sexual with me, then she's letting me love her, rather than loving me in a mutually synergistic and healthy way. I use the word 'love' to shorten all the words and actions of intimacy. The relationship is unbalanced and unhealthy. Clarity."

 

I'll clarify it further by examining what I perceived as intimacy in the moment to be really only a facilitation of 'getting my love', much as a man 'sweet talks' a woman to get her into bed. It's not real nor is backed up by consistent actions.

 

This dynamic is relevant primarily to those people who integrate intimacy, love and sex all into one package of psychology. For those who compartmentalize, it's really irrelevant. These two differing psychological styles within the realm of sexual heterosexual relationships are another important component of compatibility.

 

i agree in theory, we could say emilia is an example of your point, but i have seen my point even in those women. i had to re-establish a boundary with a casual/FWB type partner just a couple of weeks ago for her starting to talk about "you're the only man who understands me" and other such things, when it was clearly communicated by HER that she wasn't looking for a relationship, just sex.

 

it takes quite a bit of fortitude to deny who you are. not saying it can't be done...but it won't be the default action.

[carhill]

I'll go back to an assertion I made earlier in the thread which IMO has relevance and ties into both my more recent post and the OP's dynamic:

 

"There are many ways love and commitment can be shown without dickinsider. I look at the totality. "

 

I'll re-read again but I didn't really see any marked examples of this and would invite the OP to provide them, even if they don't match up with his perspective regarding equity and health. How is she showing him love and commitment without intercourse or any sexual related actions, as she does not participate in fellatio, cunnilingus or manual stimulation? 'Deep making out' IIRC was the extent of the physical stuff. What about, as examples, proactive care and affection? Interest in his life and times? Remembering his likes, desires and interests? Many examples.

 

My instinct, from the OP's silence, is that this is a done deal and he's not going to be back, but I wish to thank him for helping to clarify a few things for me and wish him well.

[snug.bunny]

Haven't asked them directly about that (and don't plan to , too sensitive of a topic), but from what others say, they did wait and yes, she likely remained a virgin until marriage, though he wasn't, but I think he regrets his past, like some of us did as well.

From what I know about them, I think it was clear she was a Christian woman at the time...

 

On my earlier statement...

Understand waiting was hard in the 70s and hard now, just as it's always hard.

I didn't wait ( a regret ). Didn't really realize I had a choice and just pressed my HS GF....

 

Honestly, with my future wife, I only wanted to do some "everything...but" like I'd done with a couple of other women in my late 20s... but she gave me the green light.

After years of relationship failures, when I met her in my early 30s, she didn't resist my advances and it all seemed so natural...

This was 4 mos. into our dating.

 

A never-married non-virgin (she only had 1 partner -- a former fiance -- years before me), if she told me she wanted to wait, to make sure she had feelings for me and to make our experience more special....

....honestly, I wouldn't had any problem with that and wouldn't try to persuade her otherwise....

....nor threaten to leave if I didn't "get some..."

 

Yes, it would have been hard, but in my heart, I am confident I would have patiently waited for her as I could see a long-wanted life partner coming out of this... And I was ready for some romance......

 

Thank you for responding and sharing your own life experiences. It's good to hear other point of views.

 

and how many women regret spending time with a man platonically for months before they hopped into bed with Brad Pitts stunt double?

 

My personal experience in this type of situation can be summarized by asking myself:

 

"is she having sex with me?"

"no"

"Then who is she having sex with"

 

I can promise you, there has always been a male name attached to that answer.

 

again my personal experience. I've never met a celibate woman. Just women that didn't want to have sex with me.

And i'm talking after months of dating where I was only seeing her & we were supposedly exclusive.

 

I'm sorry these women you referenced didn't want to have sex with you, and that your time was wasted.

 

I can see why it would be an issue (as in the OP's example), that your girlfriend wants to abstain from sex until marriage, versus giving herself to you physically, exploring each other sexually and engaging in all those wonderful lusty sexual acts of nature with one another.

 

I've never been one to withhold sex whereas I first must know we are in an exclusive, committed relationship! Or, you have to marry me first before I give up the goodies! When the moment feels right, is when it happened and some turned into LTR's, and others didn't. I will say though, that if it came to be the other person wasn't on the same page in terms of a relationship, it is within my right to choose not to continue having sex with that person (unless of course, I didn't care if he didn't want a relationship and/or was still dating/sleeping with other women). That's not to suggest my "method" is right or wrong, because it's not really a method. I can see certain benefits of waiting, but I can also see certain benefits of not waiting. I guess it boils down to which of those benefits are most important.

[Untouchable_Fire]

My personal experience in this type of situation can be summarized by asking myself:

"is she having sex with me?"

"no"

"Then who is she having sex with"

I can promise you, there has always been a male name attached to that answer.

again my personal experience. I've never met a celibate woman. Just women that didn't want to have sex with me.

And i'm talking after months of dating where I was only seeing her & we were supposedly exclusive.

 

My thought process on this is fairly similar. Most women don't do celibacy. Military wives least of all.

 

If a non-virgin takes a vow of celibacy for a reason other than religion... that is their right to do so. However, I don't think I would believe it.

[phineas]

Thank you for responding and sharing your own life experiences. It's good to hear other point of views.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry these women you referenced didn't want to have sex with you, and that your time was wasted.

 

I can see why it would be an issue (as in the OP's example), that your girlfriend wants to abstain from sex until marriage, versus giving herself to you physically, exploring each other sexually and engaging in all those wonderful lusty sexual acts of nature with one another.

 

I've never been one to withhold sex whereas I first must know we are in an exclusive, committed relationship! Or, you have to marry me first before I give up the goodies! When the moment feels right, is when it happened and some turned into LTR's, and others didn't. I will say though, that if it came to be the other person wasn't on the same page in terms of a relationship, it is within my right to choose not to continue having sex with that person (unless of course, I didn't care if he didn't want a relationship and/or was still dating/sleeping with other women). That's not to suggest my "method" is right or wrong, because it's not really a method. I can see certain benefits of waiting, but I can also see certain benefits of not waiting. I guess it boils down to which of those benefits are most important.

 

To be honest, it all comes down to manipulation tactics.

Those women I referenced were either very obvious in dangling the sex carrot or extremely subtle & i've since learned to recognize manipulation tactics & once I do recognize them i'm gone.

 

women truly interested in me don't act like their a prize to be won.

 

And again I don't try to rush sex or force it, my personal experience is if it hasn't happened a month in it rarely happens or it happens once.

Either way the end result is they are immediately sleeping with someone else.

 

But, since adopting my own rule of sex = exclusive most of these women just fade away when they realize they cannot dangle the sex carrot.

[JohnnyCage]

I once dated a girl who was an alcoholic but was trying to sober up. We went to a party and I asked her to drink with me and she refused. I mean WTH!!! It's not like she never drank before. So I did what I had to do.

 

DUMPED HER A$S!!

 

[aj22one]

I once dated a girl who was an alcoholic but was trying to sober up. We went to a party and I asked her to drink with me and she refused. I mean WTH!!! It's not like she never drank before. So I did what I had to do.

 

DUMPED HER A$S!!

 

 

Yup, totally the same thing. Oh how I love sarcasm.

[FredRutherford]

 

 

Originally Posted by FredRutherford

As a matter of fact, it was her who broke off our 1.5 yr. relationship.

Why would you think that?

 

I felt her withdrawl, and even tried to start up with someone else I knew when I was younger.

Believe me, would've left had this other woman given me the go-ahead, but of course, stayed right where I was and watched the relationship slowly fade away....

 

The LTR woman clearly wasn't the one for me anyway.

Of course, new to relationships in my mid-late 20s, I was no catch either, naive and made a lot of mistakes.

 

She once told me she loved me (during a passionate moment) then 5 mins. later asked if she could "take it back.":mad:

That and some other things made me realize this wasn't the woman for me.

 

This was a woman I started dating through a col-call...

 

Am glad I didn't end up with her.

 

Posted that story to say there are reasons someone might not want to get sexually involved.

 

sex creates a feeling of attachment/commitment to the man they just had sex with in women. in men the feeling is nothing more than pleasure. that's not speculation or hoodoo voodoo, btw, it's a scientific fact. simple matter of the hormones released into the brain during sex, they are different.

 

you think non-virginal women don't know that? of course they do. before the deed is done they have at least the illusion of control. give one two orgasms and that's all out the window, they'll start complimenting you for doing less for them.

 

until then they can use you for entertainment and attention all while keeping one foot in the door looking for a better option and you'll be none the wiser.

 

that's why you don't commit to women who aren't committed to you, and there's only one way to know they're committed to you.

 

if a woman who you are dating for an extended length of time is refusing to have sex with you, what does that logically tell you? she doesn't want to become attached to you. why would she not want to become attached to you? because she's planning on leaving you when a better option rears its head. this isn't rocket science.

 

you got played, my friend. but don't feel too bad, it's happened to all of us at some point. take it as a lesson learned, and never to be repeated.

 

So what should have I done?

Entered her without her permission? Just proceeded?

[Emilia]

So what should have I done?

Entered her without her permission? Just proceeded?

 

You should have left her

[FredRutherford]

I wonder how many men on this thread have regretted having sex with someone?

 

I'm willing to bet that is MUCH more common among women than men.

 

Maybe that is why men feel it is "fishy" that a woman who has had dating sex in the past would change her approach to dating sex in the future.

I'm one who has regrets.