One issue with making a man wait for sex

[ascendotum]

This here is pretty key.

 

We hear this quite often. "Oh, he's a relationship-quality man, I'm gonna wait before I have sex with him."

 

But just days prior, she boned a dude whom she met just hours prior.

 

I don't understand this.

 

This is why I no longer value relationships, I just meet women for the hell of it and see if it eventually leads to a sexual encounter. If not, then I cancel that friendship.

 

This is another aspect to this issue. The situation like Fondue and a few others have described I've seen a number of times. I realise not all women are like this, but it does effect your opinions on this.

Like someone else, said, opinions around this are based on experiences. I've had the 'friends first' speech…. “I used to have sex straight off but I dont do that anymore” speech and also “'When it came to sex I’ve done everything but a lot of it I only did to please the guy and I'm not doing that anymore...been there done that” speech from women. You really feel special…not, especially when they describe a number of their past lovers/bfs, being losers or arseholes. When you get older and you've had passionate & adventurous lovers and also tepid & reserved lovers, you don't want to waste time on the later, well I sure don't. There's more to life than sex, and if you have had an awesome sex life & numerous spontaneous red hot lovers, then you can focus more on the she/he’s going to be my best friend compatibility aspect, but for some sex is still right up there when it comes to that word 'chemistry'. I see a women that wants to wait 2-3 mths as being much less likely to fall into the ‘passionate & adventurous lover’ category.

 

A number of women I know, now over 36 now suddenly talk about being friends first or taking their time now when it comes to sex and making sure of the guy. Having known these women for some time, I know they sure didn't do this in their impulsive 20s or their dirty 30s. They now sound like the poster 'DY' here, so very different from what they used to be like or the guys they hooked up with in the past. They now are looking for intelligence, and nice caring guy, a gentleman who knows how to treat a lady and romance and stability. They have it the wrong way around, they now have a lot of relationship expectations & rules for the nice guy they now seek, but none of this seemed to apply to the 'wrong/too hot to last/macho jerk/full of themselves/fwb' type guys in the past. When I call them out on this, they say they have matured and know better now. Look I know not all women are like this, but I've seen plenty who have different rules for how desirable the guy is...and guys pick up on this.

 

I really think its in women's best interests not to jump into the sack on the first few dates, (not every guy is out for the pump + dump or will judge a woman harshly for it however) but now making a guy wait for longer than the woman has for past bfs, to prove himself or to test him to know you have that power in the relationship, or to play the dirty girl/good girl depending on the guy or to now punish the guy for or falling for playas in the past or for past relationship failures where sex just happened too be to quick but not the real reason for the failure, I dont agree with.

Edited January 22, 2012 by ascendotum

[Michael30]

This is another aspect to this issue. The situation like Fondue and a few others have described I've seen a number of times. I realise not all women are like this, but it does effect your opinions on this.

Like someone else, said, opinions around this are based on experiences. I've had the 'friends first' speech…. “I used to have sex straight off but I dont do that anymore” speech and also “'When it came to sex I’ve done everything but a lot of it I only did to please the guy and I'm not doing that anymore...been there done that” speech from women. You really feel special…not, especially when they describe a number of their past lovers/bfs, being losers or arseholes. When you get older and you've had passionate & adventurous lovers and also tepid & reserved lovers, you don't want to waste time on the later, well I sure don't. There's more to life than sex, and if you have had an awesome sex life & numerous spontaneous red hot lovers, then you can focus more on the she/he’s going to be my best friend compatibility aspect, but for some sex is still right up there when it comes to that word 'chemistry'. I see a women that wants to wait 2-3 mths as being much less likely to fall into the ‘passionate & adventurous lover’ category.

 

A number of women I know, now over 36 now suddenly talk about being friends first or taking their time now when it comes to sex and making sure of the guy. Having known these women for some time, I know they sure didn't do this in their impulsive 20s or their dirty 30s. They now sound like the poster 'DY' here, so very different from what they used to be like or the guys they hooked up with in the past. They now are looking for intelligence, and nice caring guy, a gentleman who knows how to treat a lady and romance and stability. They have it the wrong way around, they now have a lot of relationship expectations & rules for the nice guy they now seek, but none of this seemed to apply to the 'wrong/too hot to last/macho jerk/full of themselves/fwb' type guys in the past. When I call them out on this, they say they have matured and know better now. Look I know not all women are like this, but I've seen plenty who have different rules for how desirable the guy is...and guys pick up on this.

 

I really think its in women's best interests not to jump into the sack on the first few dates, (not every guy is out for the pump + dump or will judge a woman harshly for it however) but now making a guy wait for longer than the woman has for past bfs, to prove himself or to test him to know you have that power in the relationship, or to play the dirty girl/good girl depending on the guy or to now punish the guy for or falling for playas in the past or for past relationship failures where sex just happened too be to quick but not the real reason for the failure, I dont agree with.

 

Those women are what you call "reformed sl*ts," although they're not really reformed at all.

[LittleTiger]

Those women are what you call "reformed sl*ts," although they're not really reformed at all.

 

:lmao:........and you guys wonder why some women won't have sex within the first few dates!!!!!?????

 

Priceless!

[Fondue]

:lmao:........and you guys wonder why some women won't have sex within the first few dates!!!!!?????

 

Priceless!

You're still ignoring the overall point, and you have been for many pages now.

 

Why is that a woman is able to jump into the sack when she met the guy that night, but chooses to have the guy wait whom she deems as relationship worthy?

 

You kept saying in your previous posts, "women don't make a man wait" or, "it isn't waiting."

 

If that isn't waiting, I don't know what is.

[joystickd]

You're still ignoring the overall point, and you have been for many pages now.

 

Why is that a woman is able to jump into the sack when she met the guy that night, but chooses to have the guy wait whom she deems as relationship worthy?

 

You kept saying in your previous posts, "women don't make a man wait" or, "it isn't waiting."

 

If that isn't waiting, I don't know what is.

Its nothing most will ignore it. If the role was reversed they would be pissed. There is a majority that hate to be accountable for their actions. The hate to be honest about their sexual history and encourage other women to be deceptive about it. Its a damn shame

[Fondue]

Its nothing most will ignore it. If the role was reversed they would be pissed. There is a majority that hate to be accountable for their actions. The hate to be honest about their sexual history and encourage other women to be deceptive about it. Its a damn shame

That's a great point, actually.

 

If you were dating a man and he kept you at arms length and never engaged in intimate behavior with you, yet you know full well he was an affectionate man with in his previous relationships, would you not at least feel slighted?

 

Honestly, think about it. Answer that question without lies.

 

It would suck, wouldn't it?

[phineas]

You're still ignoring the overall point, and you have been for many pages now.

 

Why is that a woman is able to jump into the sack when she met the guy that night, but chooses to have the guy wait whom she deems as relationship worthy?

 

You kept saying in your previous posts, "women don't make a man wait" or, "it isn't waiting."

 

If that isn't waiting, I don't know what is.

 

Remember, nobody is making you wait, you can walk at any time, but if you do walk, you'll be accused of only wanting sex.

 

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[doushenka]

That's a great point, actually.

 

If you were dating a man and he kept you at arms length and never engaged in intimate behavior with you, yet you know full well he was an affectionate man with in his previous relationships, would you not at least feel slighted?

 

Honestly, think about it. Answer that question without lies.

 

It would suck, wouldn't it?

 

And where would I have gotten that information? "I've been affectionate with other women, but I've changed" is a pretty good signal we're incompatible and thus should stop dating. It's the height of stupidity to expect your partner to mold himself to your needs. You go into a relationship with who that person is at the moment, not who you hope he'll become.

 

I wouldn't feel slighted. I'd get the message and move on to someone whose values matched mine.

[Michael30]

:lmao:........and you guys wonder why some women won't have sex within the first few dates!!!!!?????

 

Priceless!

 

Ya because they don't want to handle the truth.

 

Nothing priceless about a woman who romped with a guy she met at the club last night but wants to claim innocence when she's met a different one.

 

They're in over their heads if they think a man is going to put up with that.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Michael30

[snug.bunny]

That's a great point, actually.

 

If you were dating a man and he kept you at arms length and never engaged in intimate behavior with you, yet you know full well he was an affectionate man with in his previous relationships, would you not at least feel slighted?

 

Honestly, think about it. Answer that question without lies.

 

It would suck, wouldn't it?

 

Hypothetically, how could I possibly know, how "affectionate" or "intimate" he was in previous relationships? The only way I would know is if (a) he told me; or (b) I found out on my own. So, how can you possibly know the person you are dating, what they were like in his/her past unless he/she told you and shared that with you directly?

 

 

 

And if you (not you personally, but in general) are going to be all b*tchy about his/her past, then (a) they should be inclined not to tell you and (b) definitely not sleep with you.

 

 

Anyway, to answer your question, hypothetically ---> yes. I would be bothered if the guy I was dating/seeing wasn't affectionate with me, but I knew he was affectionate with other women in his past. He could then be referred to as a reformed cuddle b*tcharooni.

Edited January 23, 2012 by snug.bunny

[RecordProducer]

I keep seeing the threads about waiting for sex but have you ever thought that if a man wanted sex with you bad enough he would wait and the once he got what he wanted do what someone that got it on the first date would do. There are some men that would do that. It like I heard from someone once: If that man or woman wants something from you, they will "play the role" of your ideal companion for a while. Then, at some point, their true self will be revealed. And you will feel like you wasted a lot of valuable time (and money).

Waiting for sex has nothing to do with the reason you described or at least that's not the sole reason. Women withhold sex for various reasons:

 

• They don't want the guy to get the wrong impression that they sleep with every guy right away
  
• They are not ready to have sex too soon
  
• They want to avoid guys who aren't willing to wait because they're only after sex
  
• They're not crazy about the guy but want to give him a chance
  
• They want to be a challenge
  
• For religious reasons
  

By the way, not too many women are aware that some men pretend to be in real relationships; e.g. they will wine and dine the woman, introduce her to his friends and family, be good to her children, give her expensive presents, help her and show concern about everything in her life - without any feelings whatsoever, without any intentions to marry them, just so they can get free sex, attention and companionship until they get bored of the woman, or the woman asks for marriage.

[LittleTiger]

You're still ignoring the overall point, and you have been for many pages now.

 

Why is that a woman is able to jump into the sack when she met the guy that night, but chooses to have the guy wait whom she deems as relationship worthy?

 

You kept saying in your previous posts, "women don't make a man wait" or, "it isn't waiting."

 

If that isn't waiting, I don't know what is.

 

It is you guys who are missing the point - I have said it in several different ways but you still don't get it. So here goes, and it's going to be a long one.........

 

Lets go back to the car analogy, which was a direct response to the bolded question above - circumstances change. People's lives change, what they want from another person changes, their needs change, their goals change, sometimes even their personalities change. We all act differently in different situations and with different people, depending on what it is that we want at any given time. (I have a male friend who was a player for 30 years and has slept with literally hundreds and hundreds of women. These days has no interest in sex outside a committed relationship - go figure!)

 

OK, so we all know that most guys will sleep with a woman as soon as possible - I don't think that's in dispute - and that's regardless of who the woman is, what it is he wants from her, and how he wants the 'relationship' to progress. The continued future of the relationship with woman x, y or z, is dependent on 1) if the sex is good 2) if he likes her enough to be in her company for longer than it takes to have sex. This is my understanding of how it goes in the majority of situations for the majority of men. (I am aware that there are exceptions).

 

There is a number 3) here for men and that is when he is well and truly smitten/head over heels in love/completely 'into' the woman. In which case he'll be contacting her virtually every day, if not several times a day and, if she falls for him too, he'll be proposing with a month or two, regardless of whether they've had sex or not - argue this one if you like, but it happens and I personally know of a number of people it's happened to, including myself.

 

For women, things are a lot more complicated because many women have a strong emotional response to sex (I'll even stick my neck out here and say 'most' - just look at how many threads are posted by women feeling confused and hurt by a guy they've had sex with but hardly know).

 

The women who won't jump into bed with you are protecting themselves. They are not making you wait - it's not about you/the man - it's about the woman not getting hurt. If you're very keen then, sure, you do have to decide if you want to wait for this particular woman - but, sorry, that is your decision.

 

(I know nothing about 'attention whores' as phineas calls them but, if such a behaviour pattern exists, then it should be relatively easy to spot and more fool you if you keep yourself 'faithful' to a woman who has no sexual interest in you).

 

Now you're all going to say so why is she worried about getting hurt having sex with you but she isn't she worried about getting hurt when she jumps into bed on the first date with some hot guy? One reason only:

 

Because she really likes you and sees you as a potential long term boyfriend or marriage material. The more a woman likes a man the more likely it is that she will get hurt - it's not exactly rocket science.

 

In addition, since a woman who agrees to early sex with any man she fancies is labelled a slut, whore, tramp, tart, easy lay or the local 'bike', you'd have to be a pretty stupid man to not understand why a woman who wants a relationship with you will not jump into bed too quickly.

 

(I have to say I don't see how any guy will know what a woman's pattern of sexual activity is unless she tells him - or unless she has a cheap reputation and the whole neighbourhood talks about her. So how do you know she's jumping into bed with some other guy when she's taking it slow with you? That has to be just an assumption or maybe 'sour grapes' because she didn't fancy you!)

 

So, far from being insulted by a woman's desire to wait until she's ready, I think you should try looking at it from a woman's point of view and you might actually feel honoured that she considers you special. If you're a man who's looking for a relationship yourself I would think this is a good thing.

 

Bottom line is, if you don't want a relationship that may lead to something long term, including living together or even marriage and babies, just stick with the women who are happy to have sex with you straight away. Perfect solution - nobody gets hurt and nobody feels like they're having to 'wait'.

[LittleTiger]

Remember, nobody is making you wait, you can walk at any time, but if you do walk, you'll be accused of only wanting sex.

 

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

It's not a Catch 22. If you really wanted the woman for a long term relationship, which you've already stated is of no interest to you, then you would be willing to 'wait' until she felt as ready as you do.

 

Since you don't want a long term relationship why waste time pretending to offer something that you don't want to give. If sex is what you want and a woman isn't offering it, it's hardly a difficult decision!

 

For women, though, it really is a Catch 22.

 

A woman who has sex early is labelled a 'slut', if she likes to take it slow she's an 'attention whore'.......but, who cares, it's all down to compatibility. If you don't want the same things at the same time then, clearly, you are not right for each other and either party can walk away at any time.

 

Why does it matter to you if a woman who is wrong for you thinks you're a player or that you don't care about her feelings? I certainly couldn't care less if a man who is wrong for me and expects me to have sex too early thinks I'm too careful or 'frigid'.

 

If a man tried to push me into sex before I'm ready - NEXT! If you do the same with women who you believe are 'making you wait', then where is the problem?

[RecordProducer]

Why is that a woman is able to jump into the sack when she met the guy that night, but chooses to have the guy wait whom she deems as relationship worthy?

Because (1) the former does not need to be impressed in any way; and (2) he's not worth seeing a second time, but let's get drunk and use him. That's the mentality behind the paradox.

[LittleTiger]

Waiting for sex has nothing to do with the reason you described or at least that's not the sole reason. Women withhold sex for various reasons:

 

• They don't want the guy to get the wrong impression that they sleep with every guy right away
  
• They are not ready to have sex too soon
  
• They want to avoid guys who aren't willing to wait because they're only after sex
  
• They're not crazy about the guy but want to give him a chance
  
• They want to be a challenge
  
• For religious reasons
  

By the way, not too many women are aware that some men pretend to be in real relationships; e.g. they will wine and dine the woman, introduce her to his friends and family, be good to her children, give her expensive presents, help her and show concern about everything in her life - without any feelings whatsoever, without any intentions to marry them, just so they can get free sex, attention and companionship until they get bored of the woman, or the woman asks for marriage.

 

Good post RP (and considerably more succinct than mine ). I think the bolded point is what these guys refer to as 'attention whores'. Especially when the woman decides after a few months of giving him a chance that she doesn't like him enough after all!

 

Understandably disappointing and, if the guy has been 'faithful' probably frustrating and annoying too - I do sympathise. However, it's no more disappointing, frustrating or annoying than it is for a woman who has sex with a guy on the 3rd or 4th date, continues to do so for several months and then finds out he was just using her for a bit of fun and doesn't really consider her worthy of a committed relationship.

 

Just as a guy might feel insulted by a woman 'desiring' other men but not him, a woman might be equally insulted by a guy who 'falls for' another woman but not her.

 

It's no more flattering for a woman to be told she's only good enough for sex than it is for a man to be told that he's 'only relationship material'. (Some women and some men excepted obviously!)

[phineas]

You really arn't paying attention are you?

Does everything I post go in one ear & out the other?

 

Maybe you should go back & respond to my last post to you.

 

Oh wait, you won't because I clearly tell you that you are mistaken in everything you said about me & everything you posted below this based on my personal experiences & the personal experiences of the other men in this thread.

 

So instead of addressing THAT post you'd rather respond to this one because then you can continue along the path of your alternate reality where one sentence I posted > than everything else I posted.

 

Who said I didn't want a relationship?

I clearly stated in this thread I did.

I just have no interest in waiting months & months for sex. Why?

 

Because as I said, most women have sex with me within a months time.

So why wait around?

No point to it.

 

Bottom line is a Man not willing to jump through hoops for a woman = bad guy.

 

When you stop dodging my direct questions & the questions of the other men i'll answer yours.

 

But you won't. no women in this thread wants to.

 

They want to toss out a catch 22 then say it isn't a catch 22.

 

It's not a Catch 22. If you really wanted the woman for a long term relationship, which you've already stated is of no interest to you, then you would be willing to 'wait' until she felt as ready as you do.

 

Since you don't want a long term relationship why waste time pretending to offer something that you don't want to give. If sex is what you want and a woman isn't offering it, it's hardly a difficult decision!

 

 

For women, though, it really is a Catch 22.

 

A woman who has sex early is labelled a 'slut', if she likes to take it slow she's an 'attention whore'.......but, who cares, it's all down to compatibility. If you don't want the same things at the same time then, clearly, you are not right for each other and either party can walk away at any time.

 

Why does it matter to you if a woman who is wrong for you thinks you're a player or that you don't care about her feelings? I certainly couldn't care less if a man who is wrong for me and expects me to have sex too early thinks I'm too careful or 'frigid'.

 

If a man tried to push me into sex before I'm ready - NEXT! If you do the same with women who you believe are 'making you wait', then where is the problem?

[Emilia]

You really arn't paying attention are you?

Does everything I post go in one ear & out the other?

 

Maybe you should go back & respond to my last post to you.

 

Oh wait, you won't because I clearly tell you that you are mistaken in everything you said about me & everything you posted below this based on my personal experiences & the personal experiences of the other men in this thread.

 

So instead of addressing THAT post you'd rather respond to this one because then you can continue along the path of your alternate reality where one sentence I posted > than everything else I posted.

 

 

Pointless to argue, a lot of people here - especially women! - don't have the life experience to understand others' view points and stick to cliches because it's easier.

 

It's much easier to be passive and stick genders into neat little boxes than to try to understand them on an individual level.

[phineas]

Pointless to argue, a lot of people here - especially women! - don't have the life experience to understand others' view points and stick to cliches because it's easier.

 

It's much easier to be passive and stick genders into neat little boxes than to try to understand them on an individual level.

 

Gee, I haven't noticed this at all ever on the forum.

 

It's mildly annoying because I took the time to re-parse the post of mine she parsed in my response & then she ignores it. why?

 

Because I'm not the person she accuses me of?

Because I used real world examples of my experiences, my friends experiences, the other men & their friend's experiences & they differ from what she claims?

 

I'm sorry, but when I was 21 I dated a woman for 3 months, finally had sex with her once, the following week I went to a party with her & caught her naked with a guy she just met at the party. They just had sex.

 

Now please tell me how that woman didn't make me wait for sex?

Please tell me how the excuse of "she wanted a relationship so she made you wait" fits into that scenario when she clearly didn't want a relationship?

 

It doesn't. what happened was I was a place holder until she found someone she really wanted to sleep with & she threw me a bone because she could feel me loosing interest.

 

I got 20 yrs worth of stories from other guys who went through the exact same situation more than once. It happens & it happens quite a bit.

[LittleTiger]

You really arn't paying attention are you?

Does everything I post go in one ear & out the other?

 

Maybe you should go back & respond to my last post to you.

 

Oh wait, you won't because I clearly tell you that you are mistaken in everything you said about me & everything you posted below this based on my personal experiences & the personal experiences of the other men in this thread.

 

So instead of addressing THAT post you'd rather respond to this one because then you can continue along the path of your alternate reality where one sentence I posted > than everything else I posted.

 

Who said I didn't want a relationship?

I clearly stated in this thread I did.

I just have no interest in waiting months & months for sex. Why?

 

Because as I said, most women have sex with me within a months time.

So why wait around?

No point to it.

 

Bottom line is a Man not willing to jump through hoops for a woman = bad guy.

 

When you stop dodging my direct questions & the questions of the other men i'll answer yours.

 

But you won't. no women in this thread wants to.

 

They want to toss out a catch 22 then say it isn't a catch 22.

 

There is really no need to be rude.

 

I, and other women, have attempted to answer every single one of your questions. Clearly we're not making ourselves understood and, clearly, neither are you!

 

You posted earlier in the thread - "if i'm meeting up with two different women i'm going to go with the one who wants to have sex first because honestly, being a divorced guy at 40 "long term" really doesn't mean all that much to me anymore". Along with the statement that 'sex' is the only thing you can get from a woman that you can't get from your friends and family, I took this to mean that you weren't bothered about having a long term committed relationship. Again, my apologies for the misunderstanding - happens a lot doesn't it? - and it takes two!

 

I have never denied that what you've said about your experiences with women is true - I was just offering a different perspective on why these women might be behaving this way. If you want to call them attention whores, that's up to you, but don't kid yourself that it's any better than a woman calling a man a player if he won't give her some time.

 

Who said anything about a man not jumping through hoops for a woman being a bad guy? Certainly not me! What I said (which you've obviously misunderstood) is that we're all different - if you don't want to wait you don't have to - any more than the woman has to drop her knickers for you within a month. That's the bottom line! Fairly obvious really.

 

Some women might think you're a player for doing so, but why do you care? You're probably no more a player than I am a prude but it matters not in the slightest either way because we're both free to conduct our relationships and sex lives as we choose. People will have their opinions, that's life. If your self-esteem is intact you shouldn't care what anyone else thinks.

 

As far as I'm aware I've answered every single question you asked, although admittedly not in the form "question followed by direct answer" that is just too time consuming for me. Whichever post I 'quote' is just a starting point - my intention was to answer all the questions in one go - I obviously did a very bad job.

 

Actually, this thread has become rather too time consuming and as I'm clearly not explaining things well enough I might as well bow out. I've done my best to explain the side you don't understand but we don't even appear to be speaking the same language and I know when to give up.

 

I will answer one question directly though - the bolded part above. The answer is because you think she's really special - because you've never met anyone quite like her and you think, just possibly, she might be the best thing that ever happened to you. Unfortunately, since you're obviously still 'smarting' over something a girl did to you 20 years ago, I doubt you'll ever allow yourself to feel that way about anyone.

[LittleTiger]

Pointless to argue, a lot of people here - especially women! - don't have the life experience to understand others' view points and stick to cliches because it's easier.

 

It's much easier to be passive and stick genders into neat little boxes than to try to understand them on an individual level.

 

Since I probably have a lot more life experience than you, and I would say it is you and phineas who seem unable to grasp other people's viewpoints, I would suggest we agree to differ!

[zengirl]

Vent- well if she doesn't feel close enough to me to get naked how is it she feels close enough to me to unload about work, her friends, her mother, how her father treated her growing up, her money problems, what needs fixing on her house,blah,blah,blah. Do you get the idea now?

 

The two are not really related, and I even disagree with posters who've said this is a man/woman difference. I know plenty of guys who vent, too. Most people who vent do it in front of many people who they will never be naked with, and almost everyone has vented to a friend at least once in their life. Granted, venting about Daddy issues or ex-BFs is probably a sign she doesn't see you as more than a friend, and there are certain things I'd vent about commonly (work, etc) and certain things I'd only ever share with someone closer --- not really related to nudity though --- but you mentioned venting about work in your first post, which is something basically every human being has done at one point or another, and usually not just to their SOs. Single people vent about work too!

 

It's not the sex I place value on. It's the sex that defines the relationship. Big difference.

 

I got hobbies, projects, ect. When a woman wants me to take time off those & spend time with her, what exactly is there to do with a woman I can't do with my other friends?

 

This sounds like valuing the sex to me. To me: You're saying you spend time with her, despite the fact that you'd rather be doing other things, so that you can eventually have sex. Not sure if that was your intent, but that's what I read.

 

I'm not in disagreement that, eventually, a romantic relationship should include sex. And that fairly early on, it should include some signs of affection (not necessarily sexual) and attraction. But I would assume the reason you'd spent time with said woman would be that she was amazing and that spending time with her made you happy. Spending time with someone to get something else out of it -- whether it's sex down the road or a free dinner or whatever -- is always a bit silly IMO.

 

At any rate, many, many people can tell you that sex does NOT define a relationship. After all, many people have hopped out of bed after rolling around with someone and not found themselves in a relationship. So, saying it "defines" the relationship is just incorrect.

 

At any rate, that's nothing against you. I think a lot of the argument you're having with LT is coming down to phrasing and lack of communication. People can date how they want, and others can judge as they like, and the circle goes round and round.

 

- circumstances change. People's lives change, what they want from another person changes, their needs change, their goals change, sometimes even their personalities change. We all act differently in different situations and with different people, depending on what it is that we want at any given time. (I have a male friend who was a player for 30 years and has slept with literally hundreds and hundreds of women. These days has no interest in sex outside a committed relationship - go figure!)

 

Right. Most of the time when a woman slows herself down, it's because either (a) her priorities have changed, or (b) she's been hurt and realizes she needs to change to protect herself. Many naive women will sleep with any man they like, sometimes thinking it means a relationship, and when they learn it doesn't, they change. Others might indulge in a ONS with a guy they can keep themselves from getting attached to, but be slower when they actually are dating for a relationship and opening their hearts (men sometimes do this too!) because sex is different in those two instances, in terms of what it means and how it has the potential to hurt. Others may go through a phase where they don't want a relationship but aren't going to forego sex for years and not think about it so much and then realize their priorities have changed and they're looking for something more real (again, men and women!), as your friend did. **** happens, people change. That's a natural response to life.

 

LT made several other good points about how sexual reputation works for women, as well as how emotional connection works for women. I will say, I think men also connect emotionally during sex in many cases---if they actually like the girl---and that some women seem to be able to avoid this, but only if they don't really dig the guy.

[joystickd]

(b) she's been hurt and realizes she needs to change to protect herself. Many naive women will sleep with any man they like, sometimes thinking it means a relationship, and when they learn it doesn't, they change.

If they have genuinely changed then that is cool but I think the main thing these guys are talking about are women that are "selectively waiting" and not consistent. Men also get hurt and realize they need to protect themselves. Some become players or have other methods of protection.

 

I remember when my first experience I was 24 I had strong feelings for someone. I had sex with her and after that she dangled having sex again and had me going through hoops only to end up wanting to go back to being friends. She was a coworker and come to find out she had someone before me and was caught numerous times having sex in the parking lot. Upon finding out this information I was pissed because I had invest myself emotionally and financially only to realize I had been manipulated. She had even fussed at me and basically said I should have had sense enough not to have feelings for her. I was naive then and had no experience with women. Even after all of that she ruined a relationship with someone and now still badmouths me to women around here and all because I got mad about what she did. She says things like I stalk her online or dented her car. People dont believe her but I met someone and started talking to them and gave her my number. One day she suddenly stopped talking to me. I found out she was friends with that woman. I will admit I have a player mentality but that is to protect myself from manipulative women because when I started out I didn't know the red flags and it eventually evolved into what I am now.

 

There are women that want to wait because the want a connection but there are women that make men wait for their own purposes ego, etc. The women on here need to acknowledge this. We are not saying all are doing this for mean purposes. You all talk about players but you women fail to acknowledge there are mean women out here that manipulate men and a lot of the responses on here has to do with the fact that many of the men on this thread have encountered that type of woman. We are not "bitter" because if that was the case then we could call the women on thread "bitter" because of all the talk about players. We are protecting ourselves in the same way you women talk about protecting yourselves nothing more.

[Oxy Moronovich]

Since I probably have a lot more life experience than you, and I would say it is you and phineas who seem unable to grasp other people's viewpoints, I would suggest we agree to differ!

I think phineas and Emilia have exceptional knowledge. It isn't about life experience; it's about dating experience and relationships. A 60 yr old person who doesn't get out much will have less experience than a 40 yr old person who associates with a large variety of people.

[FitChick]

By the way, not too many women are aware that some men pretend to be in real relationships; e.g. they will wine and dine the woman, introduce her to his friends and family, give her expensive presents, help her and show concern about everything in her life - without any feelings whatsoever, without any intentions to marry them, just so they can get free sex, attention and companionship until they get bored of the woman, or the woman asks for marriage.

 

You mean like George Clooney?

[Oxy Moronovich]

By the way, not too many women are aware that some men pretend to be in real relationships; e.g. they will wine and dine the woman, introduce her to his friends and family, be good to her children, give her expensive presents, help her and show concern about everything in her life - without any feelings whatsoever, without any intentions to marry them, just so they can get free sex, attention and companionship until they get bored of the woman, or the woman asks for marriage.

 

If these guys are wining and dining and buying expensive gifts, how is that free sex?