One issue with making a man wait for sex

[Titania22]

Yea well everybody in this world doesn't change for future partners. Doesn't mean they don't deserve anyone.

 

No you completely misunderstood, I didn't mean people should change for future partners.

 

I meant bad stuff happens,

 

for example 2 different people could be raped,

 

for 1 it ruins their life they never recover and go through life with a victim mentality, being scared, hating the opposite sex, living their lives through the filter of that one incidence.

 

and for the other they heal, they realise it was just one person that did that bad thing to them, and don't decide to hate their entire sex, they grow and have the opportunity to have many happy experiences in their life. They can even use that bad experience to have compassion and understanding for others that go through the same thing.

 

yes all people perhaps deserve future partners even my 2 hypothetical people, but realistically which one of those 2 is most likely to have a really great healthy relationship in the future.

[joystickd]

An honest answer to this would be that there are 2 sides to me. The ego/mind/emotional side which acts like a spoilt baby. That side would obviously feel sleighted.

 

And then there is my other side (the part of me that is really in charge of my life, because spoilt babies are crap at everything apart from sleeping and crying). That part would feel very appreciative for the gift, and might even feel concerned that you were overextending yourself especially after buying the last girl a ferrari. Of course I would also wonder if you would be upset if i sold it. Cars come with many expenses and I would have to see if those expenses were within my budget. If I couldn't afford the car and you would be upset if i sold it, then I would most likely just give it back to you.

 

But I know what you are getting at. A few years back I heard a story about a woman who had been given a BMW by her exhusband years later as a thankyou for the good job she did raising their kids. At the time I thought, "How did she get so lucky to have an exhusband like that?" and then "I wonder what she did to deserve such a gift?" That's just passing thoughts, but obviously it stuck in my head, because I could never imagine a man being so generous to an EX, i.e. someone he hasn't got any chance to get back with. It seemed like a completely selfless thing to do. I like that.

 

Well the guy was a very rich and buying a ferrrari was nothing would you still feel slighted? Be honest. You know at some point you would ask yourself what was so special about the previous person. Anyone would ask that. Oh well lets even change it how would you feel if you had to wait 10 years to get the ferrari when the last person he was with got one in the first year. Would you feel slighted? The thing is logically to a man the premise of making one man wait and you meet another and not give him such a hard time. It shows a lack of consistency in your personal boundaries so how can a man you have told to wait even respect that. The only way they can is if you lie about your history. I am a person that believes in building a connection with someone but it you are lying about your history or selectively leaving things out or even waiting to tell the person until they are more emotionally invested then you are wrong. Everything should be out on the table so the man/ woman can decide to pursue further or not

[Michael30]

No you completely misunderstood, I didn't mean people should change for future partners.

 

No I didn't misunderstand. I was merely replying.

 

I meant bad stuff happens,

 

for example 2 different people could be raped,

 

for 1 it ruins their life they never recover and go through life with a victim mentality, being scared, hating the opposite sex, living their lives through the filter of that one incidence.<----You've just proved why I stated my previous post.

 

and for the other they heal, they realise it was just one person that did that bad thing to them, and don't decide to hate their entire sex, they grow and have the opportunity to have many happy experiences in their life. They can even use that bad experience to have compassion and understanding for others that go through the same thing.

 

yes all people perhaps deserve future partners even my 2 hypothetical people, but realistically which one of those 2 is most likely to have a really great healthy relationship in the future.

 

For you to generalize and stereotype people who have been brutally assaulted and traumatized comes off as arrogant and really bad, especially since (I'm assuming), you've never been held against your will, have your life threatened, and forced to do a disgusting act.

 

Just because victim number one isn't going about with a f*cking smile on his/her face and actively dating others doesn't mean he/she is just some loser. So what if they're bitter about what happened to them? It was a nightmare experience and some wounds do not heal so who are you to judge about what victim is most likely to have a romantic partner?

 

This was a poor attempt at an analogy and really insulting, considering I know a cousin of mine who was raped not long ago. I'm reporting this post. Way off topic.

[Titania22]

No I didn't misunderstand. I was merely replying.

 

 

 

For you to generalize and stereotype people who have been brutally assaulted and traumatized comes off as arrogant and really bad, especially since (I'm assuming), you've never been held against your will, have your life threatened, and forced to do a disgusting act.

 

Just because victim number one isn't going about with a f*cking smile on his/her face and actively dating others doesn't mean he/she is just some loser. So what if they're bitter about what happened to them? It was a nightmare experience and some wounds do not heal so who are you to judge about what victim is most likely to have a romantic partner?

 

This was a poor attempt at an analogy and really insulting, considering I know a cousin of mine who was raped not long ago. I'm reporting this post. Way off topic.

 

 

I am not judging. I am sorry if it seems like I am. People are different and peoples experiences are different as well, but no matter what happens to you you still have some control over how you choose to deal with it.

 

I know I am much weaker then my girlfriend. She has been through much worse things then me in her life, and I think if i had lived in her shoes I would be damaged beyond repair. However she isn't. She has been beaten to a pulp and raped repeatedly by her now ex husband, with cancer, while going through chemo.

 

Whereas, I have only been raped.

 

I am so sorry that my simple sentence hit such a nerve. I am sorry for your cousin, and possibly 5yrs from now she will feel a lot better then she does now, or she won't, or she will be somewhere in the middle.

 

Perhaps i should have used people suffering from terminal cancer as an example.

[Michael30]

I am not judging. I am sorry if it seems like I am. People are different and peoples experiences are different as well, but no matter what happens to you you still have some control over how you choose to deal with it.

 

Of course. Nobody is denying that. But that doesn't mean having a smile on your face everyday is the only way to "deal with it." People have different ways of healing with tragedies such as these.

 

I know I am much weaker then my girlfriend. She has been through much worse things then me in her life, and I think if i had lived in her shoes I would be damaged beyond repair. However she isn't. She has been beaten to a pulp and raped repeatedly by her now ex husband, with cancer, while going through chemo.

 

Whereas, I have only been raped.

 

I am so sorry that my simple sentence hit such a nerve. I am sorry for your cousin, and possibly 5yrs from now she will feel a lot better then she does now, or she won't, or she will be somewhere in the middle.

 

Perhaps i should have used people suffering from terminal cancer as an example.

 

That's fine. I overreacted.

[Titania22]

Of course. Nobody is denying that. But that doesn't mean having a smile on your face everyday is the only way to "deal with it." People have different ways of healing with tragedies such as these.

 

 

Sorry I am not an advocate of people going through there days faking smiles. I was really meaning true healing at the very basic level. To hell with letting other people think you are happy if you aren't. I am all about people being genuine. But just as some people wear smiles and joy as a mask, others wear negative emotions (i.e. to protect themselves, frighten away predators).

 

Michael I am very serious about people finding their own truth and happiness. Ultimately I feel the quality of life is improved when I am not filled with anger and hate. But I never fake it for anyones benefit. And so when we talk about feeling bitter at a basic level as something someone is feeling regardless of their facial expression, I feel that is worth going to the trouble to find a way to heal over time. Not for anyone else, but purely for yourself.

[colliejoanie]

Of course. Nobody is denying that. But that doesn't mean having a smile on your face everyday is the only way to "deal with it." People have different ways of healing with tragedies such as these.

 

 

 

That's fine. I overreacted.

 

Wow. It's really kind of weird that you jumped so harshly on Titania.....And it really is unfortunate that the "rape" word be brought up so lighty.

 

After being on this board for a while, I honestly believe there are a lot of people out there that haven't dealt with life. Even if it's minor. I guess now, I think I'm lucky that I've had a lot of shi.t happen.....abusive, alcoholic parents, multiple foster homes for all my childhood.....Not having a family my whole life....... At least I'm not bitter and waiting to point the finger at someone else. I still believe that people are good. And I know a lot of good people. So all these bitter people need to take a look at their lives. What about you can you improve? It really CANNOT be that bad.

[Michael30]

others wear negative emotions (i.e. to protect themselves, frighten away predators).

 

And nothing is completely wrong with that if they're not hurting anyone.

 

[Michael I am very serious about people finding their own truth and happiness. Ultimately I feel the quality of life is improved when I am not filled with anger and hate.

Okay, but that is your version of people finding truth and happiness. There are many who are happy with being alone and not having friends. Many folks wear their emotions on their sleeve and are bitter about it, doesn't mean they aren't living their life the way they want it.

 

But I never fake it for anyones benefit. And so when we talk about feeling bitter at a basic level as something someone is feeling regardless of their facial expression, I feel that is worth going to the trouble to find a way to heal over time. Not for anyone else, but purely for yourself.

But some wounds do not heal, regardless of the numerous attempts to heal them.

[Michael30]

Wow. It's really kind of weird that you jumped so harshly on Titania.....And it really is unfortunate that the "rape" word be brought up so lighty.

 

Yea it really is unfortunate, but I'm not the one who tried to use rape victims as an analogy to get my point across.

 

After being on this board for a while, I honestly believe there are a lot of people out there that haven't dealt with life. Even if it's minor. I guess now, I think I'm lucky that I've had a lot of shi.t happen.....abusive, alcoholic parents, multiple foster homes for all my childhood.....Not having a family my whole life....... At least I'm not bitter and waiting to point the finger at someone else.

 

And yet you're using the word "bitter" lightly and generalizing that all people who are bitter point fingers at everybody else. You're happy? Bravo, but just because you are doesn't mean everybody else needs to have the same uplifting spirit as you. Folks deal with problems in different ways and to expect otherwise is just unrealistically selfish, and reeks of self-entitlement.

 

So all these bitter people need to take a look at their lives.

 

And it's blanket statements like these are the reason why some "bitter" people would rather be alone. The ignorance to others feelings never ceases to amaze them. "Oh get over it already." Ya that's really helpful to someone.

 

What about you can you improve? It really CANNOT be that bad.

 

To you it's not.

[Titania22]

And nothing is completely wrong with that if they're not hurting anyone.

 

Okay, but that is your version of people finding truth and happiness. There are many who are happy with being alone and not having friends. Many folks wear their emotions on their sleeve and are bitter about it, doesn't mean they aren't living their life the way they want it.

 

I get it, there is nothing wrong with that, that is their choice and if that is their happy way that is awesome, I am fully supportive.

Yes, but if those people are so content with being alone, why do they come on the dating forum and complain about their lives. To mean coming on here in the first place and constantly complaining, 'girls won't date me, girls won't have sex with me, etc' tells me they aren't happy and content with their situation. They want to be liked. They don't want to be lonely recluses.

 

Before you came on here getting worked up about my posts I was talking to phineas (just to phineas, responding specifically to his feelings of bitterness), and hoping to empower him so he wouldn't need to feel so angry, and could make decisions that would bring him more happiness, or happiness to the posters he is arguing for.

 

 

But some wounds do not heal, regardless of the numerous attempts to heal them.

 

And in terms of physical scarring I agree, but as to emotional scarring that is your opinion.

[musemaj11]

Secondly don't you want to be seen as relationship material?? Taking away the likelihood of having sex with someone - don't you want to be seen as a desirable person in general by women rather than a hot ****** only good for sex?

I would like both, but I had to choose one, I would rather be a hot sex god at whom women throw themselves constantly instead of being a relationship material guy if that means I have to pay and do a laundry list of expectations in exchange for sex, time, and attention from a woman. Its simply demeaning.

 

I mean how would you feel if a guy tells you for example that he is not going to wine and dine you unless you put out first while knowing that with some other women he voluntarily wined and dined them without putting any prerequisite for that treatment?

 

The fact is that women treat the relationship material guy worse than the non-relationship material hot guy.

Edited January 22, 2012 by musemaj11

[colliejoanie]

Yea it really is unfortunate, but I'm not the one who tried to use rape victims as an analogy to get my point across.

 

 

 

And yet you're using the word "bitter" lightly and generalizing that all people who are bitter point fingers at everybody else. You're happy? Bravo, but just because you are doesn't mean everybody else needs to have the same uplifting spirit as you. Folks deal with problems in different ways and to expect otherwise is just unrealistically selfish, and reeks of self-entitlement.

 

 

 

And it's blanket statements like these are the reason why some "bitter" people would rather be alone. The ignorance to others feelings never ceases to amaze them. "Oh get over it already." Ya that's really helpful to someone.

 

 

 

To you it's not.

 

Yeah Michael......I will apologize here.....I honestly cannot empathize with people who don't try to make their lives better. I'm THAT person..... until I hear a life story that's harder than mine, I don't really tune in.

 

It is all about choice. You choose how you want to live your life.....every. single. day. If you need help. guess what? it's out there. But if you decide to sit and wallow in your mire than so be it......no one else's fault.

 

I hate sounding like I don't care, because I absolutely do. But there comes a point when people have to start taking care of themselves. I finally learned that NO ONE cared. And guess what.....I'm a functioning, loving, adult and parent. I wouldnt trade my life for anything......because it made me the best MOM ever. Now to find the best man

[Michael30]

I get it, there is nothing wrong with that, that is their choice and if that is their happy way that is awesome, I am fully supportive.

Yes, but if those people are so content with being alone, why do they come on the dating forum and complain about their lives.

 

Because they have a right to "complain," as you so state it. Maybe venting is what helps them move on in life. They don't need to have an overly cheery attitude in order to land a compatible date with someone. That's why it's called compatibility-finding the right person for yourself. If they are the type of person who doesn't want someone who smiles a lot, someone who's not so socially outgoing, then they'll draw themselves to that type of person. Same for your type of attitude and mine. And people who call those not so social folks "bitter" is just being insensitive and hypocritical, when they're being negative themselves.

 

To mean coming on here in the first place and constantly complaining, 'girls won't date me, girls won't have sex with me, etc' tells me they aren't happy and content with their situation. They want to be liked.

Well that's your view. Mine is that they've been looking in the wrong place and have stumbled upon ignorant tramps who are just selfish. Maybe the women they were looking at were just not the ones for them. Doesn't necessarily mean they're just "bitter losers" who can't get laid because they don't have a bright smile on them with boatloads of money and the biggest c*ck in the world.

 

They don't want to be lonely recluses.

And they won't be. There's billions of fish in the sea. If they keep looking eventually they will catch one. People don't need to have a fake ass smile on them in order to attract someone. What's boring to you could be paradise to someone else.

 

Before you came on here getting worked up about my posts I was talking to phineas (just to phineas, responding specifically to his feelings of bitterness), and hoping to empower him so he wouldn't need to feel so angry, and could make decisions that would bring him more happiness, or happiness to the posters he is arguing for.

Well from reading this entire thread, it looks like he never needed anyone's help and was annoyed with some people trying to "shove" their views down his throat.

 

And in terms of physical scarring I agree, but as to emotional scarring that is your opinion.

Likewise.

[Michael30]

Yeah Michael......I will apologize here.....I honestly cannot empathize with people who don't try to make their lives better.

 

You mean you don't want to listen to folks who don't share your view of the world.

 

I'm THAT person..... until I hear a life story that's harder than mine, I don't really tune in.

 

Ya don't I know it.

 

It is all about choice. You choose how you want to live your life.....every. single. day.

 

I know it's about choice, nobody's doubting that, but if you expect everyone's version of happy is to hehe and haha like you then it's unrealistic and just ignorant, and shows you're mind is only on yourself. So there's no point in someone saying they have empathy for other people yet when it's not in their view of the world it's, "Oh my god, get away you bitter man."

 

If you need help. guess what? it's out there. But if you decide to sit and wallow in your mire than so be it......no one else's fault.

 

Maybe sitting in their cave is all the happiness they need, especially if it means being away from ignorant social elitists who think their view of healing or happiness is the only true way to have a great life.

 

I hate sounding like I don't care, because I absolutely do. But there comes a point when people have to start taking care of themselves. I finally learned that NO ONE cared. And guess what.....I'm a functioning, loving, adult and parent. I wouldnt trade my life for anything......because it made me the best MOM ever. Now to find the best man

 

.........

[Titania22]

Because they have a right to "complain," as you so state it. Maybe venting is what helps them move on in life.

 

Point taken.

 

 

Well that's your view. Mine is that they've been looking in the wrong place and have stumbled upon ignorant tramps who are just selfish. Maybe the women they were looking at were just not the ones for them. Doesn't necessarily mean they're just "bitter losers" who can't get laid because they don't have a bright smile on them with boatloads of money and the biggest c*ck in the world.

 

And they won't be. There's billions of fish in the sea. If they keep looking eventually they will catch one. People don't need to have a fake ass smile on them in order to attract someone. What's boring to you could be paradise to someone else.

 

 

I don't know why you attribute the boldly to anything i posted. Why do you think I think people should be fake? I never said anyone should be fake, or needs lots of money etc. I am insulted that you keep attributing artificiality to me.

 

Have a rant if you want, but try to read the words i actually write and not some warped translation in your head.

[Michael30]

I am insulted that you keep attributing artificiality to me.

 

I am insulted that you compare rape victims to the dating world.

 

Have a rant if you want, but try to read the words i actually write and not some warped translation in your head.

 

Likewise.

[Titania22]

I am insulted that you compare rape victims to the dating world.

 

Likewise.

 

Again I am sorry for the 2nd time. How long are you going to hold the grudge?

 

You are angry, i bet you were angry before you even got here, because you jumped all over me before i even mentioned the word rape. My words were not all that fierce in the 1st post you responded to. The person I had quoted in that response wasn't even insulted but what I had said. Phineas hasn't even been back to get upset. I am so sorry, if i hadn't responded to your first post at me, none of this conversation would have happened. I should have known better.

 

The response you made, made it sound like you didn't understand.

 

I am sorry that everything is so crap for you right now, that you have to lash out at everything that collie and i say, only seeing the bad and not seeing any of the good.

 

The rape thing wasn't a comparison of the dating world BTW, it was purely an example of something horrific and traumatising that ruins some peoples lives and yet not the lives of everyone who experiences it. The point was bad things happen, all sorts, as collie has listed a whole bunch she has been through, at each point in her life she has had the choice to be beaten down or not. Only she knows exactly how bad her bad experiences have been, so again not a comparison to your cousin, just an example that life is about choices and no one escapes without trial and tribulations.

 

But again i am sorry, because I am probably making it worse for you by responding yet again. Just put me on ignore and be happy.

[bolase]

Well..if you'd all rather be both (desirable both as relationship material and for sex) then BE that, focus on improving all your abilities and attitudes in life instead of having some lopsided focus on becoming the hard assed player.

 

The way in which 3 of you guys say you'd rather be the hot a**hole "if you had to be one or the other" says you don't back yourself to be all-round desirable, the 'rare mix'.

[LittleTiger]

Nice snide comment.

If it was meant to be an insult it wasn't.

 

Exactly what else does a woman have to offer me that I can't get from my family & male friends?

 

Sex is it.

I don't know why you feel a need to point out something i've said multiple times before on this forum myself.

 

I don't call you a prude or insinuate things about you because you do things differently.

 

It wasn't meant to be an insult or a snide comment. I said there's nothing wrong with how you think- it's your choice. I was actually impressed that you had 'admitted' your real thoughts on the subject.

 

I wasn't aware that you've said elsewhere on this forum that you value women for sex above all else (I don't have time to read most threads) and I hadn't seen you say it anywhere on this thread - maybe you did but I didn't notice (if so, I apologise). I thought you'd been saying the opposite ie you want a full on relationship - which generally involves becoming a woman's very close friend, if not her best friend.

 

So what's the difference between you pretending to be a woman's friend while you're waiting to have sex with her and a woman pretending she was wants a full on relationship when all she want's is male attention without sex. (If you think sex is the only thing you can get from a relationship with a woman that's different from what your family and friends can give you then 'pretending' to be her friend is definitely what you're doing!)

 

I didn't claim you in particular had issue's either.

 

No, I didn't say you did. You said something along the lines of 'women who wait' have issues. Since I'm the sort of woman who waits until I'm ready I was just pointing out that not all woman who like to wait have issues.

 

But, the fact that out of everything I put into my last response to you the above is all you've been able to come up with about me is laughable.

 

How can you ignore the laundry list of things I've experienced with women who claimed they wanted to take it slow?

 

I haven't ignored anything. You have made all of those points before and I can't argue with you on them because if you say there are women who are attention whores, then I guess there must be. It's your 'description' so you are the one who gets to define it.

 

I agreed with her post because she is saying what most of the other men are saying.

 

Most regular posters here are aware that soserious1 is only interested in men for sex and you practically leapt up and down agreeing with her viewpoint. So obviously you either think the way she does or you wish more women did- and, no, I don't think most men are saying this at all - at least that isn't how I've read it.

 

I don't have a problem with how either you or soserious1 approach your sex lives or 'relationships', it's entirely your choice. I just find it a little annoying when someone 'pretends' they're looking for one thing (a relationship) when in reality they're after something entirely different (sex).

 

Because honestly, if I wait 2 to 3 months for a woman to put out & she don't do oral and or just lays there like a bump on a log I will break up with her.

 

So it's less messy to get that out of the way sooner than later.

 

It's less messy for you to do it that way. For many women, it's less messy to do it the other way around.

 

If you hang about waiting until the woman is ready and the sex is rubbish, you've just wasted a bit of time pretending to be someone's friend. For a woman who has sex too early only to find the guy disappear at the blink of an eye, she may feel used, dirty, have damaged self-esteem etc. She's given her body to someone who is effectively a stranger. Some women, like soserious1, are fine with giving their body to people they don't know - other women aren't.

 

But seriously, you act as if it's impossible for a guy to like a woman & want to bang her at the same time.

 

Of course it's not impossible. In fact, I would hope in most cases that's exactly what happens..........but 'players' do exist and women aren't stupid. For many women, sharing their body with a man is a very big deal and they're not going to do it until he much more than 'likes' her.

[LittleTiger]

So, are you saying the below bolded situation doesn't happen?

 

Yes, I'm saying that it doesn't happen.

 

Firstly, women can't make men do anything - men are free agents who make their own choices.

 

Secondly, when a woman chooses not to have sex until she is ready, it's about her and her body - it has nothing to do with trying to manipulate or control the man! If he sees it as manipulation or allows her to manipulate him, that's his responsibility.

 

A man who is genuinely feeling a connection with a woman will understand her point of view and accept that she's not ready - he won't take it as a personal rejection. It's all about communication and acceptance of each other's differences.

 

So, are you saying the below bolded situation doesn't happen?

If this isn't making a man wait for sex then what exactly is it?

 

Again, the man is free to walk away if he chooses and the woman is free to give her body to whoever she chooses, whenever she chooses.

 

I really can't speak for other woman on why they might jump into bed with one guy and wait until they are 'in love' with another. Perhaps because very few lasting relationships come out of ONSs and early sexual encounters.

 

There are enough threads on here from guys saying how little respect they have for women who 'give away' sex too soon because it's likely they're 'giving it away' to every guy they meet. Which does suggest that, if a woman wants to be respected by a man, she has to value herself highly and that usually means not jumping into bed on the first date.

[LittleTiger]

Ladies how you feel if a man bought the last woman a Ferrari but you come along and he gets you a Ford Pinto? Wouldn't you feel slighted some? Be honest

 

Assuming he still had just as much money as previously, I would think he probably liked his ex a lot more than he liked me and, since I am nobody's consolation prize, I would end the relationship.

 

Of course, if his financial circumstances had changed since his previous relationship and the Pinto was all he could afford, I would thank him from the bottom of my heart for such a generous gift.

 

Circumstances are everything and circumstances change!

[phineas]

Not getting laid didn't really come up in my comments. Honestly, I've seen your posts and I've never thought of you as the "bitter" type but maybe I'm wrong. I've enjoyed what you've had to say and your take on things. I just hope (because I'm a single mom in my 36's) there are others out there who don't hate women......Because I don't hate men....even though I've been screwed over a plenty.

 

You are the one who mentioned bitterness in your response. I don't think I've stooped to calling women man-haters in this thread.

[phineas]

It wasn't meant to be an insult or a snide comment. I said there's nothing wrong with how you think- it's your choice. I was actually impressed that you had 'admitted' your real thoughts on the subject.

 

I wasn't aware that you've said elsewhere on this forum that you value women for sex above all else (I don't have time to read most threads) and I hadn't seen you say it anywhere on this thread - maybe you did but I didn't notice (if so, I apologise). I thought you'd been saying the opposite ie you want a full on relationship - which generally involves becoming a woman's very close friend, if not her best friend.

 

To use the words "value women for sex" is so incredibly insulting. It's either one extreme or the other with you women on this forum.

Honestly.

 

It's not the sex I place value on. It's the sex that defines the relationship. Big difference.

 

I got hobbies, projects, ect. When a woman wants me to take time off those & spend time with her, what exactly is there to do with a woman I can't do with my other friends?

 

 

 

So what's the difference between you pretending to be a woman's friend while you're waiting to have sex with her and a woman pretending she was wants a full on relationship when all she want's is male attention without sex. (If you think sex is the only thing you can get from a relationship with a woman that's different from what your family and friends can give you then 'pretending' to be her friend is definitely what you're doing!)

 

no, because I make my intentions known up front. If they start talking about exclusivity & don't want me talking to other women then I tell them Sex = exclusive. This usually happens around 3rd or 4th date.

I leave it up to them to decide.

 

If a woman told me "You will never have sex with me, but i'm going to still expect you to pay attention to me & not talk to other women while I sleep with someone else"

 

I'd be gone in a shot & she knows it.

 

So no it isn't the same thing.

 

No, I didn't say you did. You said something along the lines of 'women who wait' have issues. Since I'm the sort of woman who waits until I'm ready I was just pointing out that not all woman who like to wait have issues.

 

I don't think I said all. I don't mean to make blanket statements like that.

but I agree. it isn't all. Just the one's i've met personally then.

 

 

I haven't ignored anything. You have made all of those points before and I can't argue with you on them because if you say there are women who are attention whores, then I guess there must be. It's your 'description' so you are the one who gets to define it.

 

My list of things women did was in response to you're comment about how maybe a woman was just friendly & a guy misunderstood & decided she was leading him on.

 

Every woman on this forum has just refused to admit women lead men on.

 

 

Most regular posters here are aware that soserious1 is only interested in men for sex and you practically leapt up and down agreeing with her viewpoint. So obviously you either think the way she does or you wish more women did- and, no, I don't think most men are saying this at all - at least that isn't how I've read it.

 

I don't have a problem with how either you or soserious1 approach your sex lives or 'relationships', it's entirely your choice. I just find it a little annoying when someone 'pretends' they're looking for one thing (a relationship) when in reality they're after something entirely different (sex).

 

some guys do this, I don't.

I don't sleep with women unless I intend to stick around or their just looking for fun.

I've turned down quite a bit of sex from women who wanted a relationship & I didn't.

 

Hell, i've turned down dates from smoking hot 30 somethings because they were looking for marriage & kids. I'm done with that part of my life, so i'm not going to waste their time.

 

I can figure out in a few weeks of dating on whether I want to stick around or not with a woman.

 

If she get's dis-respectful or dis-honest she's sent packing.

 

Honestly, as long as she isn't dumb or annoying and the sex is good the woman would have to misbehave for me to dump her.

 

 

 

It's less messy for you to do it that way. For many women, it's less messy to do it the other way around.

 

And yet I had multiple flings over the summer with women that pretty-much used me for sex for a few weeks then *poofed* so my experience tells me it isn't most women. I'd say its less than half from talking to my friends & seeing women come onto them they just met in social situations.

 

If you hang about waiting until the woman is ready and the sex is rubbish, you've just wasted a bit of time pretending to be someone's friend. For a woman who has sex too early only to find the guy disappear at the blink of an eye, she may feel used, dirty, have damaged self-esteem etc. She's given her body to someone who is effectively a stranger. Some women, like soserious1, are fine with giving their body to people they don't know - other women aren't.

 

If a woman wants me to treat her like she's my GF but doesn't want to have sex i'm gone.

 

I don't hang around waiting for sex & I won't make her a priority.

 

And I agree men do use women for sex. However, how many times does a woman have to be fall victim to a player before she figures out how to spot the red flags?

 

I know so many women my age that I've known since high-school that are still single & walk around with this victim mentality because they keep dating guys they know to be players. They bitch & complain then hop into bed with another one. They got a new "BF" every 6 to 9 months it seems.Their not victims, their retards. LOL! They use the "player" angle only when it suits them.

 

I've personally never met a woman who's honestly fallen victim to a player legitimately over & over again.

Once or twice, maybe more depending on her age but making a guy wait because you treat all men as players until proven otherwise isn't a healthy mind in my opinion.

 

Not having sex because you need a connection is a completely different thing & I have no problem with women who believe this.

 

however I've yet to meet a woman where that wasn't a bunch of BS because I know for a fact they had ONS or FWB's before, during & after they told me they needed to take it slow.

 

Of course it's not impossible. In fact, I would hope in most cases that's exactly what happens..........but 'players' do exist and women aren't stupid. For many women, sharing their body with a man is a very big deal and they're not going to do it until he much more than 'likes' her.

 

I'm not going to call people stupid, but applying the "wait & see" method to dating instead of listening to words & watching actions usually doesn't end well for most people. man or woman.

Edited January 22, 2012 by phineas

[phineas]

Yes, I'm saying that it doesn't happen.

 

Firstly, women can't make men do anything - men are free agents who make their own choices.

 

Secondly, when a woman chooses not to have sex until she is ready, it's about her and her body - it has nothing to do with trying to manipulate or control the man! If he sees it as manipulation or allows her to manipulate him, that's his responsibility.

 

A man who is genuinely feeling a connection with a woman will understand her point of view and accept that she's not ready - he won't take it as a personal rejection. It's all about communication and acceptance of each other's differences.

 

If this isn't making a man wait for sex then what exactly is it?

 

Again, the man is free to walk away if he chooses and the woman is free to give her body to whoever she chooses, whenever she chooses.

 

I really can't speak for other woman on why they might jump into bed with one guy and wait until they are 'in love' with another. Perhaps because very few lasting relationships come out of ONSs and early sexual encounters.

 

There are enough threads on here from guys saying how little respect they have for women who 'give away' sex too soon because it's likely they're 'giving it away' to every guy they meet. Which does suggest that, if a woman wants to be respected by a man, she has to value herself highly and that usually means not jumping into bed on the first date.

 

You are still blame-shifting onto the man.

 

You say it's his choice to walk.

 

Then you turn around & say men who do walk are players.

 

You can't have it both ways.

 

 

You have at least 4 men in this thread saying it has happened to them & their friends & you still want to say it doesn't happen?

Edited January 22, 2012 by phineas

[Michael30]

Again I am sorry for the 2nd time. How long are you going to hold the grudge?

 

Nobody is holding a grudge.

 

You are angry, i bet you were angry before you even got here, because you jumped all over me before i even mentioned the word rape. My words were not all that fierce in the 1st post you responded to.

 

Right.....

 

The person I had quoted in that response wasn't even insulted but what I had said. Phineas hasn't even been back to get upset. I am so sorry, if i hadn't responded to your first post at me, none of this conversation would have happened. I should have known better.

 

Right.....

 

The response you made, made it sound like you didn't understand.

 

And like I said I understood full well, you just didn't like my response.

 

I am sorry that everything is so crap for you right now, that you have to lash out at everything that collie and i say, only seeing the bad and not seeing any of the good.

 

And here you are assuming and implying my life is crap right now because I do not share your version of being happy.

 

The rape thing wasn't a comparison of the dating world BTW, it was purely an example of something horrific and traumatising that ruins some peoples lives and yet not the lives of everyone who experiences it. The point was bad things happen, all sorts, as collie has listed a whole bunch she has been through, at each point in her life she has had the choice to be beaten down or not. Only she knows exactly how bad her bad experiences have been, so again not a comparison to your cousin, just an example that life is about choices and no one escapes without trial and tribulations.

 

Oh come on. It was a bad attempt and you know it.

 

But again i am sorry, because I am probably making it worse for you by responding yet again. Just put me on ignore and be happy.

 

Sure.....