One issue with making a man wait for sex

[ThaWholigan]

Really? I didn't think it happened much in London in this day and age.

 

It's mainly a black thing, black guys often talk about how it's nasty and that, but are also quick to get blowjobs hypocrites. And besides, a lot of the guys who shout the loudest are the ones who actually do it the most. Girls talk....

 

Luckily, that's the most common experience I've had! A lot of men take pride in their work

 

You've certainly been lucky! I hear a lot of women complaining about how crap the men they have sex with are....

 

We all do. I'm sure your time will come soon!

 

So am I

[misssmartypants]

Sex is more than just something pleasurable that two people share and waiting isn't (at least for me) about the guy. I am not attracted to many men, and I tend not to go out with men who don't attract or interest me.

 

I wait because I value my reputation. I value my body. You like to pretend that sex happens in a vacuum but it doesn't. People carry diseases. People use others. Birth control fails. Sex is biological and messy. Hormones women get as a direct result of heterosexual activity affect the woman's brain in such a way that she perceives attachment.

 

I do not want to become attached to someone who is not equally attached to me. I've had it happen and it hurts. I do not want herpes or HIV or any of dozens of germs that can maim or leave me unsafe for future partners and dependant on drug therapy to suppress outbreaks.

 

Knowing someone takes time. Stating boundaries takes maturity. Respecting the boundaries of someone you claim to care for takes honor. If the man I'm interested cant show patience, honor, and maturity he isn't worth risking disease, heart break, and pregnancy.

 

This is not a "victim" mentality. This is me valuing myself. I'd rather be alone than be with an impatient, immature, dishonorable man.

[phineas]

Emelia - you are my type of gal.

 

I meet women like you all the time & your the type I tend to date as opposed to women that make me feel like their some kind of prize to be won.

 

Sorry, but I don't have time for that nonsense.

 

I get a good amount of women being pro-active in letting me know their interested and withholding sex once they see i'm not just looking to get it in & bail. (which honestly isn't all that hard to prove to a woman)

 

I'm getting this with online dating also. women initiating with me.

 

I'd like to think it's because i'm just that HOT! LOL!

 

But I really think it's women finally figuring out that sitting around waiting for the man to chase isn't working for them anymore.

 

Also, women my age are figuring out men our age just have better things to do than give up our free time to a woman who doesn't want to have sex.

 

I think carhill said it best, a woman looking to engage in intimacy and not sex is not the woman for us.

[ThaWholigan]

Sex is more than just something pleasurable that two people share and waiting isn't (at least for me) about the guy. I am not attracted to many men, and I tend not to go out with men who don't attract or interest me.

 

I wait because I value my reputation. I value my body. You like to pretend that sex happens in a vacuum but it doesn't. People carry diseases. People use others. Birth control fails. Sex is biological and messy. Hormones women get as a direct result of heterosexual activity affect the woman's brain in such a way that she perceives attachment.

 

I do not want to become attached to someone who is not equally attached to me. I've had it happen and it hurts. I do not want herpes or HIV or any of dozens of germs that can maim or leave me unsafe for future partners and dependant on drug therapy to suppress outbreaks.

 

Knowing someone takes time. Stating boundaries takes maturity. Respecting the boundaries of someone you claim to care for takes honor. If the man I'm interested cant show patience, honor, and maturity he isn't worth risking disease, heart break, and pregnancy.

 

This is not a "victim" mentality. This is me valuing myself. I'd rather be alone than be with an impatient, immature, dishonorable man.

 

That's great.

 

To be fair to you and all the women who have contributed to this thread, I would like to say that in the men's cases, it's not the women who are actually waiting for pure reasons that is the target of their ire. Rather, the women who put up such a front for manipulative reasons (i.e. She's not attracted, but keeps him as an "orbiter" to use for emotional and financial reasons and asking for exclusivity, while she gets intimate and has sex with other guys). I think wires may have been crossed in this thread as a result of this simple miscommunication.

 

I do however think that women underestimate the amount of times this happens to guys, and it may be easy to say that they've been "picking the wrong women", but sometimes there is no way of truly knowing whether getting to know a woman and thus "emotionally connecting" with her will encourage her to open up intimately to the man, more often than not using that man.

 

Then again, I am of the opinion that a man should at least learn how to be attractive to this woman so as to offset this from happening so, 2 sides to a coin

[silvermercy]

I think carhill said it best, a woman looking to engage in intimacy and not sex is not the woman for us.

And vice versa for those women: that is, avoiding men who don't want intimacy but only sex.

[Thieves]

Actions speak louder than words, no? If your definition of loving is physical as much as emotional then sex is part of the equation. How does a guy know whether she is into him without her expressing it physically?

 

Expressing love physically, or showing physical affection, does not always have to = sex. There are other ways that can make it quite clear, you know, seeing as body language can be the biggest sign of whether a person is into you or not. For instance, I'm sure any man with a brain would certainly think twice if a woman repeatedly wasn't responding to his overall body language in a positive way. Examples:

 

- The man moves to sit closer to her and wraps his arm around her shoulder. She notices this and moves a little further away, and eventually shrugs off his arm.

 

- The man moves in for a hug before he leaves her house. She hesitates but stiffly hugs him for a few seconds before saying goodbye.

 

- The man attempts to kiss her during an emotionally intimate moment. She kisses him back, but it's obvious to him that she is not very passionate or genuine about it.

 

Those are all physical actions, and none are that sexual. Yet to some men, the message would be pretty clear. Sex is part of the equation, of course -- but something tells me that at this point, the guy in this situation doesn't really need her to express herself in a physically sexual way to know that she is probably not that into him, does he?

 

You are either passive or your are active. There is no middle road.

 

Fine-tuning your observation skills when it comes to people will eventually show you that this isn't really true for the most part. I don't know any one person is who 100% active or 100% passive, just like I'm sure you don't know anybody who is happy or sad absolutely 100% of the time. Everyone has different degrees of passivity and aggressiveness that make up their individual temperaments. We are not all typically 'active' in every single action we make in life, nor are we all passive either.

 

There are times to be both of those things, especially in different settings. Now, people may argue the appropriate times to be passive/active, and that's where opinions come in. It's the people who often lean too far on either side of the scale (too passive, too aggressive) that seem to experience a few more problems in relation to that.

[ThaWholigan]

Emelia - you are my type of gal.

 

I meet women like you all the time & your the type I tend to date as opposed to women that make me feel like their some kind of prize to be won.

 

Sorry, but I don't have time for that nonsense.

 

I get a good amount of women being pro-active in letting me know their interested and withholding sex once they see i'm not just looking to get it in & bail. (which honestly isn't all that hard to prove to a woman)

 

I'm getting this with online dating also. women initiating with me.

 

I'd like to think it's because i'm just that HOT! LOL!

 

But I really think it's women finally figuring out that sitting around waiting for the man to chase isn't working for them anymore.

 

Also, women my age are figuring out men our age just have better things to do than give up our free time to a woman who doesn't want to have sex.

 

I think carhill said it best, a woman looking to engage in intimacy and not sex is not the woman for us.

 

@ Bolded...

 

I would tend to agree, but it depends IMO. Length of time, girls true intentions would factor in. But, you seem to have met women who are ruthless about compartmentalizing/using the men in their lives, which is highly unfortunate.

[Emilia]

 

- The man moves to sit closer to her and wraps his arm around her shoulder. She notices this and moves a little further away, and eventually shrugs off his arm.

 

- The man moves in for a hug before he leaves her house. She hesitates but stiffly hugs him for a few seconds before saying goodbye.

 

- The man attempts to kiss her during an emotionally intimate moment. She kisses him back, but it's obvious to him that she is not very passionate or genuine about it.

 

Those are all physical actions, and none are that sexual. Yet to some men, the message would be pretty clear. Sex is part of the equation, of course -- but something tells me that at this point, the guy in this situation doesn't really need her to express herself in a physically sexual way to know that she is probably not that into him, does he?

 

 

It's very sweet but it's not something |I would personally want - unless it's coupled with sex. I love affection but at the same time I like being f****d senseless too. But that's just me

 

 

Fine-tuning your observation skills when it comes to people will eventually show you that this isn't really true for the most part. I don't know any one person is who 100% active or 100% passive, just like I'm sure you don't know anybody who is happy or sad absolutely 100% of the time. Everyone has different degrees of passivity and aggressiveness that make up their individual temperaments. We are not all typically 'active' in every single action we make in life, nor are we all passive either.

 

There are times to be both of those things, especially in different settings. Now, people may argue the appropriate times to be passive/active, and that's where opinions come in. It's the people who often lean too far on either side of the scale (too passive, too aggressive) that seem to experience a few more problems in relation to that.

 

You may wish to read the comment I responded to

[ThaWholigan]

Expressing love physically, or showing physical affection, does not always have to = sex. There are other ways that can make it quite clear, you know, seeing as body language can be the biggest sign of whether a person is into you or not. For instance, I'm sure any man with a brain would certainly think twice if a woman repeatedly wasn't responding to his overall body language in a positive way. Examples:

 

- The man moves to sit closer to her and wraps his arm around her shoulder. She notices this and moves a little further away, and eventually shrugs off his arm.

 

- The man moves in for a hug before he leaves her house. She hesitates but stiffly hugs him for a few seconds before saying goodbye.

 

- The man attempts to kiss her during an emotionally intimate moment. She kisses him back, but it's obvious to him that she is not very passionate or genuine about it.

 

Those are all physical actions, and none are that sexual. Yet to some men, the message would be pretty clear. Sex is part of the equation, of course -- but something tells me that at this point, the guy in this situation doesn't really need her to express herself in a physically sexual way to know that she is probably not that into him, does he?

 

:laugh:............

 

You'd think that....most men actually do not. The guys who do know this stuff, are the guys who are infinitely much more successful with women than other. At least I had an excuse for not being able to read body language though, but I learned it, and understand it a lot more......can't say the same for a lot of other men. If they knew how to use and understand body language, they wouldn't be having these problems IMO.

[misssmartypants]

That's great.

 

To be fair to you and all the women who have contributed to this thread, I would like to say that in the men's cases, it's not the women who are actually waiting for pure reasons that is the target of their ire. Rather, the women who put up such a front for manipulative reasons (i.e. She's not attracted, but keeps him as an "orbiter" to use for emotional and financial reasons and asking for exclusivity, while she gets intimate and has sex with other guys). I think wires may have been crossed in this thread as a result of this simple miscommunication.

 

I do however think that women underestimate the amount of times this happens to guys, and it may be easy to say that they've been "picking the wrong women", but sometimes there is no way of truly knowing whether getting to know a woman and thus "emotionally connecting" with her will encourage her to open up intimately to the man, more often than not using that man.

 

Then again, I am of the opinion that a man should at least learn how to be attractive to this woman so as to offset this from happening so, 2 sides to a coin

 

I'm not going to say it doesn't happen but I think it's over stated. I also have to say my biggest frustration in dating isn't players or even men rejecting me. It's the guys who are so sweet and are clearly with horrible women who stay with them or go from cheating hussy to cheating hussy until they get bitter about all women.

 

I know a sweet, talented, attractive man who is dating a woman who is constantly out with other guys and they just got engaged! She does this in front of him.

 

I've recently realized these guys who go with loud over sexed attention seeking women who end up breaking their hearts are as troubled as the players and woman haters. I don't pity them, they are seeking out their own misery, but won't date them either. I can't possibly offer the level of emotional drama they are used to.

[Emilia]

It's very sweet but it's not something |I would personally want - unless it's coupled with sex.

 

Oh apologies, I misread your post.

 

I don't actually understand how your post is relevant to this thread and my point? Are you advocating passive aggressiveness? A woman can just say 'no' to a guy if she doesn't want his attention, doesn't have to pull away or whatever. It's dead easy to make him stop, why play games?

[phineas]

And vice versa for those women: that is, avoiding men who don't want intimacy but only sex.

 

That view really doesn't work because it's skewed.

 

You'd be hard pressed to find a man who is just looking for sex to be intimate with a woman for more than a few weeks without sex.

Most men looking for more won't engage in intimacy quickly unless it's progression towards sex or their desperate.

 

However, women will use a man for attention, cuddle bitch, emotional tampon for months upon months under the guise of "taking it slow" then just disappearing when someone she really wants sex with comes into view.

 

You can't tell the difference between a man who just wants sex & a man who wants more?

 

I can tell the difference between a woman who wants me & a woman who just wants my attention & I can promise you after dating so many attention whores I can tell it within the 1st or 2nd date before sex is even on the table.

[Emilia]

I'm not going to say it doesn't happen but I think it's over stated. I also have to say my biggest frustration in dating isn't players or even men rejecting me. It's the guys who are so sweet and are clearly with horrible women who stay with them or go from cheating hussy to cheating hussy until they get bitter about all women.

 

I know a sweet, talented, attractive man who is dating a woman who is constantly out with other guys and they just got engaged! She does this in front of him.

 

I've recently realized these guys who go with loud over sexed attention seeking women who end up breaking their hearts are as troubled as the players and woman haters. I don't pity them, they are seeking out their own misery, but won't date them either. I can't possibly offer the level of emotional drama they are used to.

 

Pick other men then. Why be preoccupied by other people's drama? You think he is sweet, talented, whatever, clearly the two of them have a kind of attraction that you as an outsider will never understand. No point worrying about it, move on

[maysj18]

When it comes to sex I have to feel loved and appreciated for me to even enjoy it, therefore I wait. I have had both a loving and caring relationship as well as a terrible one that resulted in me having terrible trust issues. Both of these men were great in bed, but the determinate in how I felt about our relationship directly correlated to how they treated me when it came to sex.

 

I am not a prude nor do I use sex as a bargaining tactic or anything else manipulative, but I HAVE to have an emotional connection to enjoy sex the way I want to enjoy it. An emotional connection brings about comfort, understanding, and security (even if that security is short lived, at least it meant as much to the man as it did to me). I want to be able to fully express myself sexually, in any way I want, without any regret or worry and being in a loving relationship makes me able to do that. I have had meaningless sex and I've had sex that meant something, and after comparing the two, I will never have sex outside of a relationship ever again. Even if that takes me years to find, it will be worth it. Sex is meant to connect two people emotionally and physically..why should I not be allowed to develop those feelings and explore them completely? That's what I want for my partner, too! I want them to feel comfortable and cared for and I want to satisfy them anyway I can. I'm not being manipulative, because anything I want out of a relationship, I am also going to give to my boyfriend.

 

I'm always upfront about this too, so I give the man a chance to back out. If they stick around anyway and get upset after I don't put out immediately, that's their own fault.

[misssmartypants]

Pick other men then. Why be preoccupied by other people's drama? You think he is sweet, talented, whatever, clearly the two of them have a kind of attraction that you as an outsider will never understand. No point worrying about it, move on

 

Yeah ... Reread my post.

 

I said I wouldn't even consider dating him because of the constant drama he's attracted to. I said there are many men like this who chase "bad" women and then complain when they get the same treatment.

[silvermercy]

That view really doesn't work because it's skewed.

 

You'd be hard pressed to find a man who is just looking for sex to be intimate with a woman for more than a few weeks without sex.

Most men looking for more won't engage in intimacy quickly unless it's progression towards sex or their desperate.

 

However, women will use a man for attention, cuddle bitch, emotional tampon for months upon months under the guise of "taking it slow" then just disappearing when someone she really wants sex with comes into view.

 

You can't tell the difference between a man who just wants sex & a man who wants more?

 

I can tell the difference between a woman who wants me & a woman who just wants my attention & I can promise you after dating so many attention whores I can tell it within the 1st or 2nd date before sex is even on the table.

No, my view (and that of the majority of women) is not skewed. Your perception of ALL women who want to wait IS skewed though, and that is due to your own bad experiences.

 

I can tell the difference but that takes TIME. As is the case with most women. (What can I say... Blame those players, they are multiplying by the minute. If those people did not exist, in an ideal world, women would have sex earlier fearing no consequences).

 

So, sex without intimacy? Nope! Not for me (and, again, for the majority of women). Because it just doesn't work for us. Those who can are the exception. Same applies to the women who "punish" men by withholding sex. They are exceptions but you keep stumbling upon them somehow. But, of course, that's for you to figure out the why and how.

Edited January 16, 2012 by silvermercy

[Oxy Moronovich]

It's mainly a black thing, black guys often talk about how it's nasty and that, but are also quick to get blowjobs hypocrites. And besides, a lot of the guys who shout the loudest are the ones who actually do it the most. Girls talk....

It must be a Caribbean thing mainly. Black guys I've known in the States don't seem that prejudiced against going down on their women. I've been around many who openly talk about oral sex in both the vagina and rear.

[ThaWholigan]

I'm not going to say it doesn't happen but I think it's over stated. I also have to say my biggest frustration in dating isn't players or even men rejecting me. It's the guys who are so sweet and are clearly with horrible women who stay with them or go from cheating hussy to cheating hussy until they get bitter about all women.

 

I know a sweet, talented, attractive man who is dating a woman who is constantly out with other guys and they just got engaged! She does this in front of him.

 

I've recently realized these guys who go with loud over sexed attention seeking women who end up breaking their hearts are as troubled as the players and woman haters. I don't pity them, they are seeking out their own misery, but won't date them either. I can't possibly offer the level of emotional drama they are used to.

 

I think it may be a tad overstated, but I do pity them, because it's their desperation that leads them to where they are a lot of the time. My brother and I were recollecting such instances where guys have done questionable deeds just trying to get some very undesirable women (not in looks), and keep them in a relationship, knowing full well she will cheat.

 

This is a problem for the desperate IMO. They don't get any attention from women whatsoever, and the little they get, they jump on and latch upon, they don't know any better. That's a self-esteem issue and I have much sympathy for them.

[LittleTiger]

I can tell the difference between a woman who wants me & a woman who just wants my attention & I can promise you after dating so many attention whores I can tell it within the 1st or 2nd date before sex is even on the table.

 

If you can tell the difference between an 'attention whore' (as you so delightfully put it) and a woman who really wants you, before sex is even on the table, then what is your issue with waiting for sex?

 

If you know she's really into you from the 1st or 2nd date, and by your definition she is therefore clearly not an 'attention whore', you've surely got nothing to lose by giving her time until she feels ready - unless, of course, your number one priority is sex?

[hydorclops]

This is a good thread, many interesting opinions here.

 

It's easy for me to understand the women's need to feel safe first. It's completely obvious that no one should have sex until they're ready.

 

 

 

Here's another version of the men's point of view:

 

She knows I want to have sex with her. She's not ready yet so we wait.

 

But is she waiting until it's right or is she waiting to see if it's right.

 

 

 

Thought experiment: Switch up genders. She's ready, he's not.

 

How does that make you feel if you're the woman? How do you feel if you're the man?

[joystickd]

(What can I say... Blame those players, they are multiplying by the minute. If those people did not exist, in an ideal world, women would have sex earlier fearing no consequences).

 

You can't blame everything on players. There are some players that became players in reaction to what women have done to them so essentially you reacting to a player is no better than the player that became one because a woman or women hurt them.

 

Lets be real here you know most women like players anyway.

[silvermercy]

This is a good thread, many interesting opinions here.

 

It's easy for me to understand the women's need to feel safe first. It's completely obvious that no one should have sex until they're ready.

 

 

 

Here's another version of the men's point of view:

 

She knows I want to have sex with her. She's not ready yet so we wait.

 

But is she waiting until it's right or is she waiting to see if it's right.

 

 

 

Thought experiment: Switch up genders. She's ready, he's not.

 

How does that make you feel if you're the woman? How do you feel if you're the man?

I think the most fitting reverse situation would be him waiting for emotional intimacy from the woman.

[silvermercy]

You can't blame everything on players. There are some players that became players in reaction to what women have done to them so essentially you reacting to a player is no better than the player that became one because a woman or women hurt them.

 

Lets be real here you know most women like players anyway.

Yeah! Poor little players!! LMAO!! Yeah, as usual, it's the woman's fault she is having her heart broken by a player! Surely, you don't believe what you just wrote?

[hydorclops]

I think the most fitting reverse situation would be him waiting for emotional intimacy from the woman.

 

That's a different experiment than the one I proposed. Maybe it's more fitting, maybe not. Explain it better and I'll run it through my brain.

 

I don't mean to pick on you silvermercy, but try mine. You're ready to move to a full on romantic sexual relationship, but he's not sure yet. How do you feel?

[joystickd]

Yeah! Poor little players!! LMAO!! Yeah, as usual, it's the woman's fault she is having her heart broken by a player! Surely, you don't believe what you just wrote?

I actually do. I nowhere in that post put fault in there. I said reaction and that is a difference. I was merely stating there is an endless cycle of reactions when it comes to dating. I myself was destroyed by a woman that started out as a platonic friend and went to something more. She ruined a relationship for me and told lies about me. It was my very first experience. I became a player because I didn't want any woman to get close to me again so they could hurt me. Every behavior has a positive intention so instead of focusing on the negative try to get an understanding of the positive intention as the cause of the behavior.