Summer Breeze Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 SB, I can't imagine a BW living through 5 d-days knowing the truth about her H. What kind of condition did the adult son have , that would make both of them stay in this kind of a marriage? It's a bit personal and I'm not willing to divulge that. She did and we spoke at length on every one of them just like I always told him would probably happen. My H cheated on me and the second he admitted it when I confronted him it was done. No second chances and no explanations. It didn't matter. He cheated. We're definitely all not the same. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 You are actually agreeing with the post. That is a sad aspect of A's - most of them - that the MM/MW is good at tricking an OW/OM into loving them. The MM/MW, however... And once the realization sinks in the OW/OM's love quickly turns to hatred because TRUE love is a shared thing that goes both directions. The example in the original post sounds like an obsession situation. That isn't love either IMO. I would add to this to say the following: in this type of situation, the OW/OM only thought they loved their AP because who they loved was not really that person. They loved the persona that was portrayed. Link to post Share on other sites
beenburned Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 SB, I can understand that people with serious medical conditions can not live without medical insurance, or even daily assistance. If MM was staying for this reason, then it makes perfect sense. I know of a couple who had a "water head baby".(mongoloid?) They usually don't live past a certain age, but he has grown into a loving young man. But without his parents daily help and medical insurance, he could not live a normal life. I hope you find a man that will give you all the things you need. Don't let these memories interfer with forging ahead with your future. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 SB, I can understand that people with serious medical conditions can not live without medical insurance, or even daily assistance. If MM was staying for this reason, then it makes perfect sense. I know of a couple who had a "water head baby".(mongoloid?) They usually don't live past a certain age, but he has grown into a loving young man. But without his parents daily help and medical insurance, he could not live a normal life. I hope you find a man that will give you all the things you need. Don't let these memories interfer with forging ahead with your future. I agree. Especially the last paragraph. Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 It is used to indicate reality, but others are free to believe what they choose. This still didn't answer the original question...where is the hate? Link to post Share on other sites
SoMovinOn Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 But If there is REAL love and not merely enjoyment of a feeling you will both work at learning how NOT to shrink the laundry; how to properly manage the finances; how to manage a household so you can both help each other be happy and secure and successful. If all you care about, however, is FEELING good you will flit from one person to another (i.e.have A's) in a never ending pursuit of good feelings. Sound familiar anyone? I understand your sentiment, that with love, you will find a way. I used to believe that, but experience has shown me it isn't true, not just in my R's, but in those I've seen in others. People are who they are. They don't change unless they want to, and even if they want to, they are limited by their own capabilities. I don't get where you are separating "real" love, from the feeling of love. How would one experience love without feeling it? Why would one want to experience love and not enjoy it? Why would one want to work at learning how to live together in a R which doesn't make them feel good? Haven't you claimed to be happy in your current R? Does it bother you to be in an R which makes you happy, rather than one in which you experience "real love"? Link to post Share on other sites
SoMovinOn Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Yep. There is this want to try to portray A's as other then your run of the mill type... That rare other type of A exists once in a blue moon. We keep hearing about that kind of A... What is with people refusing to fit into stereotypes? ... and why do we have to keep hearing from so many people involved in A's which are rare? Link to post Share on other sites
SoMovinOn Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 TRUE love is a shared thing that goes both directions. True love is selfless, so, it only goes in one direction. It's a beautiful thing when two people who truly love each other get together and share it. If you're thinking about what you get out of it - it isn't love. Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 True love is selfless, so, it only goes in one direction. It's a beautiful thing when two people who truly love each other get together and share it. If you're thinking about what you get out of it - it isn't love. This is really cool SMO:) Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 True love is selfless, so, it only goes in one direction. It's a beautiful thing when two people who truly love each other get together and share it. If you're thinking about what you get out of it - it isn't love. There is the problem for many AP who keep hanging on and on and on after many many years of their MM/MW refusing to leave their marriage. The OW/OM allows the MP to be selfish; wanting their cake and eating it too. One cannot fully offer a healthy R to someone unless they respect themselves first. IMO there is no self respect in allowing oneself to be a hidden extra on the sidelines. My man would never expect the woman he loves to be in such a position. It isn't about what I get. It is about him allowing me to have self respect as well as respect for him. I could never love any person who would be so self absorbed as to expect the person they claim to love to ever feel sidelined in favor of another lover. My man has too much goodness, integrity, and character to ever feel it is his right to blithely go through life lying and sneaking around and putting someone he claims to love in the position of second fiddle. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 What is with people refusing to fit into stereotypes? ... and why do we have to keep hearing from so many people involved in A's which are rare? There are only a few. They just say it over and over. They still each only count as one person. Link to post Share on other sites
Summer Breeze Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 SB, I can understand that people with serious medical conditions can not live without medical insurance, or even daily assistance. If MM was staying for this reason, then it makes perfect sense. I know of a couple who had a "water head baby".(mongoloid?) They usually don't live past a certain age, but he has grown into a loving young man. But without his parents daily help and medical insurance, he could not live a normal life. I hope you find a man that will give you all the things you need. Don't let these memories interfer with forging ahead with your future. Thanks for the discussion and for the comments BB. I never stopped forging ahead with my future not even when I was with him. I love him and I loved him when we were together but I never stopped living my own life and looking for someone who I loved as much and could spend my life with. I know in that regard I was different to most OW. I never allowed myself to be treated like an OW and I never allowed him to be more important than me. His boy is in such a situation. He can't live independently due to physical restrictions and neither parent is willing to let him go to a home. Neither will give in and I understand it and respect it. I feel sad for them both to a degree but being a mom I understand it. Thank you again. Link to post Share on other sites
Summer Breeze Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 True love is selfless, so, it only goes in one direction. It's a beautiful thing when two people who truly love each other get together and share it. If you're thinking about what you get out of it - it isn't love. I'm sorry but I disagree. I think love is a very selfish thing. I met someone at 22 and wanted him. I wanted a home and a family with him. I saw my whole life with him. I was willing to give up my own home and my career to be with him so I could be happy. He was always beside me in the dreams and hopes but it was very selfish. I do agree sometimes you act in a selfless way when things happen but I think by and large love is very selfish. Don't confuse what I'm saying with doing something selfish when you're in a R with them. I'm saying in itself love is selfish but if it's real love then you can be selfless because the love can be bigger than your selfishness. Link to post Share on other sites
Summer Breeze Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I agree. Especially the last paragraph. Thanks Donna. It still amazes me how much it helps, even after years apart, to come to a place like this and hash it out. Hope you and your man have a good V Day. I remember our exchange last year about the handcuffs and police uniforms. Link to post Share on other sites
Summer Breeze Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 What is with people refusing to fit into stereotypes? ... and why do we have to keep hearing from so many people involved in A's which are rare? Because some people aren't stereotypical no matter how much you want them to be. You hear from us because we happen to be here at this moment answering questions. I sometimes spend weeks not responding to a thing on here and other times I come on and jump in feet first. I even have weeks at a time I don't come on to this site at all. I suppose you could ask us not to respond but that would be much like me posting something in the Infidelity forum and asking Seren and Phoenix not to respond because they are in an equally rare situation. Why should they be allowed to speak if I can't? I'm not in here beating the drum for women to go and find MM or for people to have As. I'm answering questions and hope like He!! I'm opening some eyes. Someone asked why the BS would go through multiple Ddays in my situation. No idea at all but to this day she still has herself convinced he didn't / doesn't love me. She thinks there was nothing left and even though both of us have told her he always initiated contact she has convinced herself it was me chasing him and somehow that gave him a pass. I never allowed that with my xH. I think it's why I so steadfastly say that if they cheat it's irrelevent who they cheat with. They cheated. Maybe the way some BS want to open the eyes of some OW I hope maybe I can open the eyes of some BS. Maybe I'm here for my ongoing therapy. I do know it gives a break to some of the professional and political forums I frequent. And-I like lots of the posters here. Link to post Share on other sites
Circular Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 My xAP was one of the great loves of my life. I can say that unequivocally based on my experience and the relationships I've had. That said, each relationship is unique and what we feel for one might not be identical to what we feel for another, I believe that love isn't a static one-size-fits-all, it's a dynamic emotion based on a lot of variables, mostly aggregated into life's experience to that point. In my A I walked away, I did it for the right reasons and I remind myself quite regularly why I walked away. Walking away because you love someone isn't easy, it takes a lot of willpower, a lot of pushing aside selfish want for selflessness, a lot of self dialogue as to what is right and why - at the cost of a lot of self agony. Even knowing I did the right thing, that I did it because I knew it was best for everyone, because I love her it doesn't mean I don't struggle with the decision, that at times the ache of missing her gets the best of me and I wish it was different. I leave it up to the universe to decide what will happen. Maybe our paths will cross again under different circumstances. Love of my life? I don't believe in absolutes, I believe you can have great love if the right parameters are met, some people meet those requirements better than others. But I also believe that meeting a 'great love' is a rarity, not a common thing, only happens a few times at best in a life time. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Summer Breeze Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 My xAP was one of the great loves of my life. I can say that unequivocally based on my experience and the relationships I've had. That said, each relationship is unique and what we feel for one might not be identical to what we feel for another, I believe that love isn't a static one-size-fits-all, it's a dynamic emotion based on a lot of variables, mostly aggregated into life's experience to that point. In my A I walked away, I did it for the right reasons and I remind myself quite regularly why I walked away. Walking away because you love someone isn't easy, it takes a lot of willpower, a lot of pushing aside selfish want for selflessness, a lot of self dialogue as to what is right and why - at the cost of a lot of self agony. Even knowing I did the right thing, that I did it because I knew it was best for everyone, because I love her it doesn't mean I don't struggle with the decision, that at times the ache of missing her gets the best of me and I wish it was different. I leave it up to the universe to decide what will happen. Maybe our paths will cross again under different circumstances. Love of my life? I don't believe in absolutes, I believe you can have great love if the right parameters are met, some people meet those requirements better than others. But I also believe that meeting a 'great love' is a rarity, not a common thing, only happens a few times at best in a life time. You could have been me writing this. Every word of it. Thank you. Link to post Share on other sites
SoMovinOn Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 The OW/OM allows the MP to be selfish; wanting their cake and eating it too. One cannot fully offer a healthy R to someone unless they respect themselves first. IMO there is no self respect in allowing oneself to be a hidden extra on the sidelines. Love and a relationship are two different things. The OW/OM, or anyone, if they are truly in love, doesn't allow their partner to be anything - rather, they accept him/her as he/she is. As to whether or not one can be in love with an MP and have a "healthy" R with them ... they can have whatever type of R they choose. Link to post Share on other sites
SoMovinOn Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 There are only a few. They just say it over and over. They still each only count as one person. I know you and I don't often agree, but in this case, I am with you 100%. With all the millions of people having A's, and there being maybe a dozen or so who post here, the sample we see here on LS really provides nothing in the way of an accurate picture of A's. Link to post Share on other sites
SoMovinOn Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I'm sorry but I disagree. I think love is a very selfish thing. I met someone at 22 and wanted him. I wanted a home and a family with him. I saw my whole life with him. I was willing to give up my own home and my career to be with him so I could be happy. He was always beside me in the dreams and hopes but it was very selfish. I do agree sometimes you act in a selfless way when things happen but I think by and large love is very selfish. Don't confuse what I'm saying with doing something selfish when you're in a R with them. I'm saying in itself love is selfish but if it's real love then you can be selfless because the love can be bigger than your selfishness. I read this earlier this evening and took some time to consider it for a while. I am certain love is selfless. I don't know everything about love. No one does. If anyone ever figures it out, he/she will make millions selling books or something. Perfect love is completely selfless. Humans are not perfect. Truly in love, we can aspire to be perfect in that love, but, know we cannot ever achieve it. If all things were perfect, neither of you would have wants, because your selfless lover would anticipate them and take care of them for you. You would do the same for them. Life would be awesome. Additionally, Love is a separate thing from a relationship. I think the wants are for the relationship (you want to live together, you want a house, you want to have kids...) ... the love is what makes them possible. Even the concept of being selfless has issues though, right? You can't give of yourself if you are not able, and to be able, you have to take care of yourself, which could be seen as selfish. ... but, it doesn't really need to get all that complicated, it's just a matter of putting the person you love ahead of yourself. Certainly, it makes no sense you'd do it to your detriment, because that would hurt the person you love. In the end, I think being in love has to be like the Nike slogan - Just do it! If you think about it too much, it gets much more complicated than it should be. Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I know you and I don't often agree, but in this case, I am with you 100%. With all the millions of people having A's, and there being maybe a dozen or so who post here, the sample we see here on LS really provides nothing in the way of an accurate picture of A's. Nope, not even close. In fact the term IRL is very appropriate here, meaning a lot of what is communicated here is very close to fiction. Priddy much IN REAL LIFE, the people are simply people minus all the drama. I've seen a whole lot of affairs and the reality is that all the parties were lying about something, there wasn't mudslinging, and all parties moved on. Most AP's got together (lest they wouldnot have had the affair in the first place). The BS was usually a WS also and moved on with whoever and most remain together to this day. Did people get hurt? Of course some did. Did they dwell on it. No. They moved on. Mine was an unusual situation, although I walked from the drama and let them have their game, they eventually split and had a drama based divorce. Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 This is a great thread BTW... Link to post Share on other sites
East7 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) I'm sorry but I disagree. I think love is a very selfish thing. I met someone at 22 and wanted him. I wanted a home and a family with him. I saw my whole life with him. I was willing to give up my own home and my career to be with him so I could be happy. He was always beside me in the dreams and hopes but it was very selfish. I do agree sometimes you act in a selfless way when things happen but I think by and large love is very selfish. Don't confuse what I'm saying with doing something selfish when you're in a R with them. I'm saying in itself love is selfish but if it's real love then you can be selfless because the love can be bigger than your selfishness. I totally agree. There is nothing more selfish than love! Love is tightly related to the sense of possession of the beloved partner..All the rest is blah blah... Does anyone seriously thinks that OM/OW care a lot about the BS or then the BS about the OM/OW ? If OM/OW cared about the BS, the A-s wouldn't exist. If the BS were selfless about the OM/OW they would tell WS to go and be with AP without trying so hard to keep them. In some cases they do tell WS to go and never come back, not because their Love is selfless but because of self-respect and pride. To be brutally honest, I wanted xMW for myself whatever it would take. I didn't care much about her H. I didn't feel guilty about her H until a long time after A was over and I realized how being in the A, I was participating to her deceit to someone who was innocent and believed his wife was honest and committed. Edited January 22, 2012 by East7 Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Thanks Donna. It still amazes me how much it helps, even after years apart, to come to a place like this and hash it out. Hope you and your man have a good V Day. I remember our exchange last year about the handcuffs and police uniforms. Yes, LS has a good cross section of people with which to talk things through. That's why I post. It's interesting and usually enjoyable and I have had a few people say they enjoy my posts and even others who claim that my posts helped them. . That cross section of posters includes a staggering amount with the typical sad A story ending in disillusionment and anger and, at least in one small positive way, clarity. And yes, I recall the cuffs and cop outfit conversation! Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Love and a relationship are two different things. The OW/OM, or anyone, if they are truly in love, doesn't allow their partner to be anything - rather, they accept him/her as he/she is. As to whether or not one can be in love with an MP and have a "healthy" R with them ... they can have whatever type of R they choose. Yes, the OW I know who continues to threaten to tell the BS if her AP ends the A has asserted that their A is a healthy loving R. You're right. Whether it is true or not, anyone can claim anything. Link to post Share on other sites
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