What Are Realistic Expectations In Dating?

[Oxy Moronovich]

Woman date above their league while men date below.

What's your definition of "above their league"? Is this based on status or personality?

 

If you say it's status then that would mean a man's personality is secondary, if important at all. He could be a rich businessman who treats her like crap but he's still above her league.

 

If you say it's personality then that would mean status is secondary, if important at all. That would mean a woman could date a good guy who works in fast food. And a woman is dating below her league if she dates the rich jerk who treats her like crap.

 

Help me out here. What do you mean? This "above their league" crap confuses me.

[iris219]

Dust, you seem to get along well with many female posters here. I can see why iris' posts tick you off.

 

Plus, I definitely think iris is BSing us here. On page 3 she made this quote:

 

 

 

Then on page 5 she makes this quote:

 

 

So on page 3 she says they were interested in dating but she rejected them. Then on page 5 she says they were only interested in hooking up and they rejected her. And still she wonders why people don't believe her posts?

 

I haven't contradicted myself. All you have to do is think a bit about what I said and then it becomes perfectly clear. The last two guys I mentioned in my last post wanted to date me, but it was clear they were only interested in sex. In that sense, they rejected me. I rejected them in the sense that I didn't want sex OR a relationship with them, so I ended contact. What's hard to understand about that?

 

I have repeatedly said on here that there are many more single women where I live. There are few single men, and even fewer single, quality men. This is something I've made clear many times.

 

I wish I was lying or exaggerating. Unfortunately, my posts have been painfully honest.

[Feelsgoodman]

A huge red flag pops up whenever you read a post by a person who constantly, constantly blames their unsuccessful dating life on everything but themselves.

Ain't that the truth. That's why it's hard for me to sympathize with people like verizon, iris, somedude, etc. It's always, always, ALWAYS somebody else's fault.

[verhrzn]

Ain't that the truth. That's why it's hard for me to sympathize with people like verizon, iris, somedude, etc. It's always, always, ALWAYS somebody else's fault.

 

It isn't someone else's fault. I've said several times I think it's my fault for not meeting the regular standards of attractiveness men have.

[Oxy Moronovich]

I haven't contradicted myself. All you have to do is think a bit about what I said and then it becomes perfectly clear. The last two guys I mentioned in my last post wanted to date me, but it was clear they were only interested in sex. In that sense, they rejected me. I rejected them in the sense that I didn't want sex OR a relationship with them, so I ended contact. What's hard to understand about that?

 

I have repeatedly said on here that there are many more single women where I live. There are few single men, and even fewer single, quality men. This is something I've made clear many times.

 

I wish I was lying or exaggerating. Unfortunately, my posts have been painfully honest.

I disagree. I think your posts have been painfully dishonest. Wanting to date you and only wanting sex are two different things. So it seems like you're lying here.

 

Plus, you're trying way too hard to demonize these guys. First, it's because they wear board shorts and bartend part-time. Then your next post make them to be cheaters and users. Then your next posts make them to be alcoholics, drug users, and illiterates. I think your descriptions of these guys are phony.

 

Whether or not you're telling the truth, many posters here have given you sound advice: move. It's too difficult for you to take that advice but it's not too difficult for you to complain. This behavior is irritating people and that's why we're calling BS.

[Oxy Moronovich]

Ain't that the truth. That's why it's hard for me to sympathize with people like verizon, iris, somedude, etc. It's always, always, ALWAYS somebody else's fault.

Agreed. The constant bitching about their love lives does get tedious. I'm actually starting to think these posters are just doing this for kicks. I didn't think it was possible, but I'm starting to think some people online get turned on by portraying themselves as total losers.

 

It isn't someone else's fault. I've said several times I think it's my fault for not meeting the regular standards of attractiveness men have.

That's basically the same thing as saying it's men's fault. You're the female version of somedude.

 

Incidentally, when you had your pic on your avi, many male posters commented you were attractive. So the whole "I don't meet regular standards of attractiveness men have" is BS.

[verhrzn]

That's basically the same thing as saying it's men's fault. You're the female version of somedude.

 

Incidentally, when you had your pic on your avi, many male posters commented you were attractive. So the whole "I don't meet regular standards of attractiveness men have" is BS.

 

The difference between me and Somedude, though, is that he's wrong. He blamed his failure in dating to physically attributes that female posters have said over and over don't matter: his height, being super muscular. He doesn't even really know for sure that's why girls are rejecting him, he's just assuming based on his own insecurities. Lots of female posters have pointed out they have absolutely no problem with short guys, lean guys, "cute" as opposed to "hot" guys... heck, even guys with a bit of a stomach.

 

In contrast, male posters are mostly unified in the things they find physically attractive: Young. Long hair. Skinny/not fat/athletic. Hourglass figure. I have yet to see a single male poster say they love girls who look like butch lesbians, or girls who look like they could really pack away a few cheeseburgers.

 

Since I have been told repeatedly in real life I am not attractive, never been randomly flirted with, AND I am the opposite of all "things 95% of males agree an attractive woman should have," it's not that far of a leap to say," Yep, it's my looks."

 

Not saying my insecurities don't play into it, but it's a reinforcing cycle.... Guys don't like how I look, which reinforces my insecurities, which further makes guys think I'm unattractive.

 

I also have no idea where people got the impression that sooo many guys have complimented my picture. Totaling them up, I think it's like.... 6. And most of those are," Eh, not bad." 'Not bad' doesn't mean they find me attractive, or would seek me out in real life, it just means they glanced at some random Internet person and didn't feel like trolling her. Not exactly great, fool-proof evidence.

[iris219]

I disagree. I think your posts have been painfully dishonest. Wanting to date you and only wanting sex are two different things. So it seems like you're lying here.

 

Plus, you're trying way too hard to demonize these guys. First, it's because they wear board shorts and bartend part-time. Then your next post make them to be cheaters and users. Then your next posts make them to be alcoholics, drug users, and illiterates. I think your descriptions of these guys are phony.

 

Whether or not you're telling the truth, many posters here have given you sound advice: move. It's too difficult for you to take that advice but it's not too difficult for you to complain. This behavior is irritating people and that's why we're calling BS.

 

I’m not sure if you’re annoyed with me on a personal level, or if you’re annoyed that my experiences go against what you assume dating is like for women. I understand it’s frustrating when someone contradicts what we’ve always believed to be truth. That’s why the men on here find me and verhzn especially annoying.

 

If dating means hanging out, getting food, drinks, and having sex, then, yes, I meant “date.” Or is that more of FWB type of thing? I don’t know. I do know I wasn’t interested in that.

 

By focusing only on the negatives, I can see how it seems like I was trying to demonize these guys, but I wasn’t. They weren’t terrible people, just not relationship material for me. I liked the part-time bartender. I wish we were right for each other, but we’re not.

 

It's easy to tell someone to move, but most people can't just pick up and leave. I've applied for jobs in other states and I plan to travel more. I have several trips already planned (and plane tickets bought).

 

You call it complaining; I call it venting.

[Feelsgoodman]

The difference between me and Somedude, though, is that he's wrong.

Brilliant retort!

 

I have yet to see a single male poster say they love girls who look like butch lesbians, or girls who look like they could really pack away a few cheeseburgers.

They may not prefer these attributes, but plenty of men end up dating such women. That's because many men, not being terribly desirable themselves, don't get their pick of the litter and have to settle for women who look like they can pack away a few cheeseburgers.

 

It has been told to you repeatedly that someone with your appearance can have a boyfriend. You may not be hot but you are not a moster either. I've met girls much uglier than you who have had multiple boyfriends.

In fact, I see REALLY fugly girls with boyfriends every freaking day of the week.

 

So yes, even you can have a boyfriend. But you will have to be proactive to find one. Guys in your league are likely suffering from insecurities too. They won't be the ones to confidently approach you to chat you up.

[verhrzn]

Brilliant retort!

 

Be here all week, tip your prostitutes, etc.

 

They may not prefer these attributes, but plenty of men end up dating such women. That's because many men, not being terribly desirable themselves, don't get their pick of the litter and have to settle for women who look like they can pack away a few cheeseburgers.

 

It has been told to you repeatedly that someone with your appearance can have a boyfriend. You may not be hot but you are not a moster either. I've met girls much uglier than you who have had multiple boyfriends.

In fact, I see REALLY fugly girls with boyfriends every freaking day of the week.

 

So yes, even you can have a boyfriend. But you will have to be proactive to find one. Guys in your league are likely suffering from insecurities too. They won't be the ones to confidently approach you to chat you up.

 

Thus my question about leagues. Since I'm not the aforementioned "what guys want," then I have to decide which guys are desperate enough that they've decided they should settle. If I have to approach them, then I'm probably gonna end up approaching guys who are out of my league, because I'm approaching guys I'm, ya know, attracted to at first glance.

 

So how can I tell which guys are desperate enough about their own looks to throw myself at?

[Oxy Moronovich]

The difference between me and Somedude, though, is that he's wrong. He blamed his failure in dating to physically attributes that female posters have said over and over don't matter: his height, being super muscular. He doesn't even really know for sure that's why girls are rejecting him, he's just assuming based on his own insecurities. Lots of female posters have pointed out they have absolutely no problem with short guys, lean guys, "cute" as opposed to "hot" guys... heck, even guys with a bit of a stomach.

And this is why I called you the male version of somedude. You're doing the same thing. Many guys like myself and Feelsgoodman, have pointed out there are plenty of ugly women with men. Over and over again, male posters have said you're attractive enough to get men. Hell, even female posters have stated this.

 

In contrast, male posters are mostly unified in the things they find physically attractive: Young. Long hair. Skinny/not fat/athletic. Hourglass figure. I have yet to see a single male poster say they love girls who look like butch lesbians, or girls who look like they could really pack away a few cheeseburgers.

Men have to have some standards when it comes to physical attraction. Even still, there are many guys who date fat chicks. And many butch lesbians don't even want men, so why should they worry about whether or not men find them attractive?

 

I also have no idea where people got the impression that sooo many guys have complimented my picture. Totaling them up, I think it's like.... 6. And most of those are," Eh, not bad." 'Not bad' doesn't mean they find me attractive, or would seek me out in real life, it just means they glanced at some random Internet person and didn't feel like trolling her. Not exactly great, fool-proof evidence.

It was a 90 x 90 pixelated image. It's difficult to get the full idea of your looks. But what little guys can see we're saying it's not bad. Not bad=attractive.

 

By focusing only on the negatives, I can see how it seems like I was trying to demonize these guys, but I wasn’t. They weren’t terrible people, just not relationship material for me. I liked the part-time bartender. I wish we were right for each other, but we’re not.

 

Why are you only focusing on the negatives? What can you gain from that?

 

It's easy to tell someone to move, but most people can't just pick up and leave. I've applied for jobs in other states and I plan to travel more. I have several trips already planned (and plane tickets bought). You call it complaining; I call it venting.

Venting is okay. However, when you're venting about the same thing for months on end, people get bored with it quickly.

[somedude81]

 

The difference between me and Somedude, though, is that he's wrong.

 

 

Brilliant retort!

Oh my god

 

to both of you

[AD1980]

 

 

. If I have to approach them, then I'm probably gonna end up approaching guys who are out of my league, because I'm approaching guys I'm, ya know, attracted to at first glance.

 

 

You complain that Men do that but if women approached all the time as you said they would do the same thing and approach people theyre attracted to instead of thinking well he or she isnt that attractive which probably means shes cool or will say yes

 

So yes if you're not one of the hotties you do probably have to be more proactive to show your other positive traits

[eerie_reverie]

Honestly V... your threads are really offensive.

 

By putting yourself down, you are also disrespecting the majority of women who share your predicament of not being "perfect".

 

If you as a 20-something are not "young" what are you saying about women in their 30's and 40's and their relationships?

 

If you are "fat" at 130, what does that say about me, when I am 25 pounds heavier, and don't have your DD tits? That my bf "settled" for me out of desperation?

 

As I have said before, you are a young, educated girl with giant boobs. The world should be your oyster.

 

But your attitude is so disgusting, I'm not surprised no one wants to fcvk you with a 10 foot pole.

[verhrzn]

Honestly V... your threads are really offensive.

 

By putting yourself down, you are also disrespecting the majority of women who share your predicament of not being "perfect".

 

If you as a 20-something are not "young" what are you saying about women in their 30's and 40's and their relationships?

 

If you are "fat" at 130, what does that say about me, when I am 25 pounds heavier, and don't have your DD tits? That my bf "settled" for me out of desperation?

 

As I have said before, you are a young, educated girl with giant boobs. The world should be your oyster.

 

But your attitude is so disgusting, I'm not surprised no one wants to fcvk you with a 10 foot pole.

 

I'm sorry you feel attacked, but I really, really, really am not speaking about anyone but me. To take what I am saying about myself, and apply it to another person, is silly because... that person is not me.

 

For example, a woman may be 25 pounds heavier than me, but she may carry it in an hourglass figure, or in a more sculpted/athletic way. I've also advocated on these boards that weight, health and appearance are not necessarily linked to each other. I don't consider myself fat because of my weight... I consider myself fat because I carry it primarily in my stomach, and I look flabby and wide.

 

A woman may not be "perfect," but that doesn't mean a guy settles for her. It means there's a strong chance she has some other amazing attributes that are attractive (for example, she may not have long hair, but she has a knock-out figure. She may be a little fuller in the frame, but she has beautiful lush lips, etc.)

 

However, that is not always the case. Sometimes a guy DOES settle. Sometimes a woman really DOESN'T have anything physical to recommend her. I've never tried to apply that label to everyone. What gets me is that people won't acknowledge when it exists.

 

It's like Iris said.... women who come on this board with dating difficulties are immediately shouted down as being at fault or being liars. There is a serious lack of examination of the unrealistic beauty standards our society has for women, the extreme pressure guys are under to select someone who 'fits' a certain projection (example: guys who are actually into bigger girls, but are ashamed of their desires because of the constant social message to date skinnier/more in shape girls, or risk being mocked and called less than a man), in fact, the very notion that physical beauty and femininity are so tightly wound together.

 

I've never understood the extreme hostility people have towards posters like me and Iris. People roll their eyes and rattle the cages of guys like Somedude and Wolf, but no one comes out and calls their attitudes 'disgusting.' Why is their negativity, if not admired, at least allowed and tolerated (and in some cases reinforced by a chorus of other posters who blame the evils of feminism), but a woman coming onto the board with the same problems is universally despised?

 

I'm really not sure what you would have me do. Ignore my past experiences? Delude myself into thinking guys are hitting on me? Obviously the world is NOT my oyster, and it never has been. I've spent my entire life openly mocked for the way I look. I'm sorry if somehow that offends you.

Edited January 20, 2012 by verhrzn

[eerie_reverie]

I Why is their negativity, if not admired, at least allowed and tolerated (and in some cases reinforced by a chorus of other posters who blame the evils of feminism), but a woman coming onto the board with the same problems is universally despised?

 

I would say you guys are equally despised.

[verhrzn]

I would say you guys are equally despised.

 

But I don't see any posters blaming all of mankind. Or all American men. Or claiming men have impossible standards. Iris and I seem to be the anomalies, and that's what seems to bother people so much.

[Oxy Moronovich]

I'm sorry you feel attacked, but I really, really, really am not speaking about anyone but me. To take what I am saying about myself, and apply it to another person, is silly because... that person is not me.

No, eerie revere is right. You are trying to speak for everyone. All you generalizing posts about men like "only a certain type of body type and personality" are speaking for other people.

 

I've never understood the extreme hostility people have towards posters like me and Iris. People roll their eyes and rattle the cages of guys like Somedude and Wolf, but no one comes out and calls their attitudes 'disgusting.' Why is their negativity, if not admired, at least allowed and tolerated (and in some cases reinforced by a chorus of other posters who blame the evils of feminism), but a woman coming onto the board with the same problems is universally despised?

Where did you get the idea that somedude's whining doesn't bother people? Did you not see the post where I and Feelsgoodman said we find it hard to feel sympathy for posters (both male and female) who do nothing but complain?

 

Oh wait, you did see that post because you quoted it. So how can you say you never see men get called out for negativity when you've seen it yourself (and done it yourself, I might add)?

[eerie_reverie]

I'm sorry you feel attacked, but I really, really, really am not speaking about anyone but me. To take what I am saying about myself, and apply it to another person, is silly because... that person is not me.

 

For example, a woman may be 25 pounds heavier than me, but she may carry it in an hourglass figure, or in a more sculpted/athletic way. I've also advocated on these boards that weight, health and appearance are not necessarily linked to each other. I don't consider myself fat because of my weight... I consider myself fat because I carry it primarily in my stomach, and I look flabby and wide.

 

A woman may not be "perfect," but that doesn't mean a guy settles for her. It means there's a strong chance she has some other amazing attributes that are attractive (for example, she may not have long hair, but she has a knock-out figure. She may be a little fuller in the frame, but she has beautiful lush lips, etc.)

 

However, that is not always the case. Sometimes a guy DOES settle. Sometimes a woman really DOESN'T have anything physical to recommend her. I've never tried to apply that label to everyone. What gets me is that people won't acknowledge when it exists.

 

It's like Iris said.... women who come on this board with dating difficulties are immediately shouted down as being at fault or being liars. There is a serious lack of examination of the unrealistic beauty standards our society has for women, the extreme pressure guys are under to select someone who 'fits' a certain projection (example: guys who are actually into bigger girls, but are ashamed of their desires because of the constant social message to date skinnier/more in shape girls, or risk being mocked and called less than a man), in fact, the very notion that physical beauty and femininity are so tightly wound together.

 

I've never understood the extreme hostility people have towards posters like me and Iris. People roll their eyes and rattle the cages of guys like Somedude and Wolf, but no one comes out and calls their attitudes 'disgusting.' Why is their negativity, if not admired, at least allowed and tolerated (and in some cases reinforced by a chorus of other posters who blame the evils of feminism), but a woman coming onto the board with the same problems is universally despised?

 

I'm really not sure what you would have me do. Ignore my past experiences? Delude myself into thinking guys are hitting on me? Obviously the world is NOT my oyster, and it never has been. I've spent my entire life openly mocked for the way I look. I'm sorry if somehow that offends you.

 

Right. I'm not young (by your standards) or thin, so it must be my mid-length hair that is the reason I'm not single.

 

FYI, I can think of at least one attribute you have that a lot of guys find attractive. Giant boobs.

 

There are others but that's one you can't dispute.

[verhrzn]

Where did you get the idea that somedude's whining doesn't bother people? Did you not see the post where I and Feelsgoodman said we find it hard to feel sympathy for posters (both male and female) who do nothing but complain?

 

Oh wait, you did see that post because you quoted it. So how can you say you never see men get called out for negativity when you've seen it yourself (and done it yourself, I might add)?

 

It may bother people, but no body is calling him a liar about his bad experiences. No one says anything like "Oh a man would have to be obese and have horrible breath before he has trouble dating!" Everybody accepts that he's having difficulties, he doesn't have to prove it. And as often as people are annoying by him, there are also people who jump in making claims that it's because American women are too shallow, or too materialistic, or too feminist, or how foreign women are so much better. I don't see anyone making parellel claims about men's standards... that they're too stringent, that a lot of men unjustfully judge a woman's physical appearance.

 

I don't see men get called out for their negativity with the same level of disbelief and displeasure that female posters with the same problems do.

 

Right. I'm not young (by your standards) or thin, so it must be my mid-length hair that is the reason I'm not single.

 

FYI, I can think of at least one attribute you have that a lot of guys find attractive. Giant boobs.

 

There are others but that's one you can't dispute.

 

Did you miss the part about other features making up for ones that idealized? Maybe you have a knock-out figure... how should I know? From everything I've read and everything I've observed, men are visual creatures, and have an idealized set of standards. The further a girl strays from those standards, the more difficult it is to attract a guy. How is stating such an obvious fact offensive?? And how does it have anything to do with you?

 

What drives me crazy is why people insist on arguing with my experiences. I have been called ugly and physically unattractive to my face multiple times. I NEVER get called attractive or cute without "fishing for compliments." I've never been called pretty, hot or beautiful at all. Guys don't know I exist except as someone to complain to when the hot girl ignores them. It's been this way my entire life. So why do people continually shout me down for just stating what is MY truth, and trying to work from there?

[Feelsgoodman]

Thus my question about leagues. Since I'm not the aforementioned "what guys want," then I have to decide which guys are desperate enough that they've decided they should settle. If I have to approach them, then I'm probably gonna end up approaching guys who are out of my league, because I'm approaching guys I'm, ya know, attracted to at first glance.

 

So how can I tell which guys are desperate enough about their own looks to throw myself at?

How do you think men figure such things out? Trial and error. First you approach guys you are most attracted to. When they reject you, lower your standards a notch and try again. Repeat until you start getting more yes's and than no's. Once you've reached that point, you'd know what is realistic for you.

[Dust]

c'mon folks lets not kick the women while she's down. I have to deal with depressed guy after depressed guy while entertaining myself on this site. They post pics of their bodies shirtless... now I feel I was so close to getting some bikini pics of a depressed girl. Depressed bikini pics bonus LS points... Verhzn send me bikini pics with your face in some of the pics. Then I'll tell you "what are realizstic expectations in dating!" Pay no heed to these women saying you are bringing them all down. The girl telling you that used to be a stripper... not that anythings wrong with that. I actualy have a bigger problem against the men who would go and waste all their money on that type of thing when the beach is free! (most breaches right)(nude beaches too)

[carhill]

Given that the OP stated this back on 5 August, 2011:

 

 

"I Love Sex But Am Afraid Guys Think I'm A Slut

I am 26 years old, and since I became sexually active at 20, I've had five partners. 3 of those partners were committed relationships, 2 of those were not."

 

I'd say the expectations have been pretty realistic. Since becoming sexually active, in six-seven years she's had three committed relationships of six+ months each. For some on these forums, especially some of the male posters, that would be the epitome of success.

 

For myself, if I ask a woman on a date, she's met my expectations for attractiveness. Otherwise, why would I bother? The remaining primary expectation, human decency, is proved or refuted over time. When I look back at every dating situation which has been ended by myself, I ended it simply because the lady could not or would not meet my relatively modest expectation of human decency. That standard applied to both treatment of myself as well as what I observed of her behavior with others. The classic example LS'ers use, generally women, is to watch how a man treats the wait staff at a restaurant. That's what I'm driving at.

 

OP, IMO, your best advice will come from female friends, those with successful relationships, whom you know in real life. You know how to attract men. You've been successful attracting men, as well as growing relationships to a certain point. You're doing something right. Grow that. If you don't have any close female friends, grow those relationships first. The process will transfer over. With same-sex friends, there's no sexual draw and the dealings are arms-length and equitable. No short cuts. Good luck.

[misssmartypants]

My rule is that dating should be enjoyable and fun. If how you go about it is not fun and enjoyable then something is wrong. It could how you are prioritizing dating or just that you really aren't in the right frame of mind.

 

I don't believe in legues. I do know that people with things in common are more likely to be compatible. Exercise buffs will enjoy each other. More than an exercise type with a tv addict.

[eerie_reverie]

c'mon folks lets not kick the women while she's down. I have to deal with depressed guy after depressed guy while entertaining myself on this site. They post pics of their bodies shirtless... now I feel I was so close to getting some bikini pics of a depressed girl. Depressed bikini pics bonus LS points... Verhzn send me bikini pics with your face in some of the pics. Then I'll tell you "what are realizstic expectations in dating!" Pay no heed to these women saying you are bringing them all down. The girl telling you that used to be a stripper... not that anythings wrong with that. I actualy have a bigger problem against the men who would go and waste all their money on that type of thing when the beach is free! (most breaches right)(nude beaches too)

 

And the one positive thing that came out of that experience, was my knowledge that the only common denominator in what men are attracted to ... is confidence.