What Are Realistic Expectations In Dating?

[Lonely Ronin]

Google, "why women like tall men."

 

"Because they are confident" will not be an answer. There is a whole bunch of things that will come up that I am not going to discus or even think about because it will just make me feel insecure.

 

I did just that, and the only one of any value in the the first few pages of results is this the first one, because it references actual re-search papers.

 

http://advice.eharmony.com/dating/dating-news/why-do-women-all-seem-to-want-taller-men

 

It is also noted that height is a “masculine” characteristic. Taller men may be seen as more dominant and assertive (Melamed, 1992). In evolutionary terms, a larger man may have been able to provide more protection to their offspring, have greater genetic qualities to pass on to their future children, and thus may be awarded with greater social status.

what normally goes hand in hand with dominance and assertiveness, that's right..... confidence

 

Culture also plays a big part in what we like and what is valued in society. Women may learn to value men who are rewarded in society. For example, taller men may be seen as more powerful and attractive, so women who are with taller men benefit by attaining a higher social status. In addition, if height signals physical dominance, it is likely that taller men make women feel smaller, protected, and perhaps more “feminine” as well.

Again, physical dominance usually goes hand in hand with confidence.

 

 

One factor that becomes important is women’s own height (Fink, et al., 2007). Instead of choosing the tallest of the bunch, many women use a step criteria, requiring that the men they are with are at least taller than they are (Hensley, 1994). Women do not have a exact height preference, but rather seem to be open to a variety of heights, so long as the man is taller than her.

let this one percolate a while, and keep in mind you are taller than most women.

 

In general women are attracted to taller men, a preference which may be explained by evolutionary hard wiring or by societal expectations. But when choosing a man to be with, this preference is moderated by your own height, potential dating options, and relationship expectations.

 

Also as you might expect, height and physical traits are not enough to explain what women want, especially when looking for long-term romantic relationships. More than physical appearance, which plays mostly in short-term relationships, women value personality, intelligence, and career choice (Braun & Bryan, 2006). For dating, women look for men with agreeable personalities – men who show kindness, empathy, and intimacy, and factors like these can play a part in what women find most attractive in a man.

 

According to evolutionary theory, women looking for long-term relationships would want men who would stick by their side and help them provide for and take care of their infants. Thus, finding men who are agreeable, smart, and gainfully employed are signs that they will make good providers.

How many of the traits listed about do you have? Now ponder how your lack of confidence degrades them.

[FitChick]

What, pay hundreds, possibly thousands, of dollars for a cure-all that doesn't have any scientific backing behind it? You're right, I don't have the guts to pour tons of money into a scam...

 

Oh, but you are so wrong! There is scientific research. You know, conventional therapy hasn't been proven to work better than nothing. This isn't conventional therapy where you waste weeks or years of your life and are no better off than you were before. Have a look at their website. Watch the video testimonials by respected professionals.

[FitChick]

I used to work with a tall, rather attractive man, 40, who had a master's degree, was working on his PhD, and had a good job. He was still a virgin and sounded like some of the guys on here. Constantly whining, hoping for pity sex. What a waste.

[Feelsgoodman]

I used to work with a tall, rather attractive man, 40, who had a master's degree, was working on his PhD, and had a good job. He was still a virgin and sounded like some of the guys on here. Constantly whining, hoping for pity sex. What a waste.

I've met men like this too. In fact, they are surprisingly common nowadays. It kind of makes you wonder how they got there (being a 40 year old virgin hoping for pity sex despite being good looking, educated and financially successful) while all sorts of lowlives, criminals, deadbeats, etc. have no problem attracting women.

 

it all goes to show that being a good man and doing what you are "supposed to" (getting an education and a good job) is more of a hindrance then a benefit, at least when it comes to women. And people wonder why men are "underachieving".

[kiss_andmakeup]

Hypothetical.

 

What??! Volunteer!!!

 

If you're not working then what's holding you back? There are tons of non-profit rescues and shelters that need help. I've been volunteering once a week for a local no-kill rescue for the past 6 years and it's one of the most fulfilling things I do.

 

Ross, it seems like you don't have anything in your life that brings you a sense of joy or accomplishment. That has a repelling effect on the opposite sex.

 

Start using your time to make yourself happier and healthier. It will radiate off of you and women will notice, and actually want to get to know you and be a part of your life.

[somedude81]

I've met men like this too. In fact, they are surprisingly common nowadays. It kind of makes you wonder how they got there (being a 40 year old virgin hoping for pity sex despite being good looking, educated and financially successful) while all sorts of lowlives, criminals, deadbeats, etc. have no problem attracting women.

 

it all goes to show that being a good man and doing what you are "supposed to" (getting an education and a good job) is more of a hindrance then a benefit, at least when it comes to women. And people wonder why men are "underachieving".

That's a great point.

 

Why are women letting these men go by while rewarding low-lives?

[verhrzn]

That's a great point.

 

Why are women letting these men go by while rewarding low-lives?

 

Cause these 'fantastic' men don't have a personality or a single shred of confidence, because they might treat women like trash in a very obvious way (ignoring her, treating their relationship like a job interview, being emotionally cold), because they're secretly gay but afraid to come out of the closet so just complain about all the women rejecting them, because they have obnoxiously high standards and are simply being rejected by women who have even MORE obnoxiously high standards (or different standards, like an engaging personality over money)...

 

The possibilities are frankly endless. Honestly, guys on here should take it as a hopeful sign that tall, good-looking, rich guys even have trouble, because it means not all women are shallow or gold-diggers. Isn't that what you guys want... for women to not have such ridiculously high standards? Well, not all do, and so they're dating the low-lives, dead beats and jerks.

[Els]

That's a great point.

 

Why are women letting these men go by while rewarding low-lives?

 

You don't seem to understand that while SOME women do that, OTHER women are more than happy to keep these men. Unfortunately, all 4 of the women on this thread who are keeping, or interested in keeping, such men, would not be with you because they believe you superficial, and yet you refuse to accept or work on that. None of us would also fit your requirements. Catch-22, anyone?

[somedude81]

It's good to see that attack SD day is still on. I was starting to get lonely.

[KathyM]

Oh, but you are so wrong! There is scientific research. You know, conventional therapy hasn't been proven to work better than nothing. This isn't conventional therapy where you waste weeks or years of your life and are no better off than you were before. Have a look at their website. Watch the video testimonials by respected professionals.

Actually, conventional therapy has definately been proven to help people to deal with their issues. In fact, something like 80% to 90% of people reported being helped through therapy out of all who have sought therapy. It is supported by empiracle evidence that therapy is effective. I just did an assignment for my counseling class today that showed which types of therapy were most effective in treating various problems, with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy being the most effective form of therapy used. Studies have been done and have proven that therapy is effective in the vast majority of cases.

[Els]

Aww, c'mon, SD, it's not an attack. I could really care less what sort of girls you prefer or don't. It's just frustrating to see you unhappy time and time again with your loneliness, when we know that this mindset of yours is going to drive away precisely the sort of girl you seem to want - if it hasn't already, unbeknownst to you.

 

If you can't see why a girl might dislike a man who thinks there is nothing wrong with asking a partner to get breast surgery, or why it sounds so immature for your partner's weight gain to be your primary concern re: pregnancy and post-natal care, and so on and so forth... well, I suppose there is little point in me trying to explain it. Hopefully one day you will get it, and when that day comes, perhaps you may finally get a gf who accepts and loves you for who you are, as I would like to think that zengirl, myself, and xxoo love our partners - not the plaster cast of a man that she has in her mind

 

Good luck.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Elswyth

[somedude81]

Of course it was an attack. How else should I interpret, "Unfortunately, all 4 of the women on this thread who are keeping, or interested in keeping, such men, would not be with you because they believe you superficial."

 

Elswyth, you assume so much about me and what I say to women I know, and then reach as far as you can for the conclusion about me that you've already decided upon.

 

Don't you think you are taking this a little too personally?

[Lonely Ronin]

Don't you think you are taking this a little too personally?

 

Dude, if you lived near me I would tell my female friends to avoid you like the plague. You can't even own up to the fact that you posted something on this thread that "most" women would find offensive.

[somedude81]

And then the wandering samurai arrives. To save the women from evil that spreads across the land.

[Lonely Ronin]

And then the wandering samurai arrives. To save the women from evil that spreads across the land.

 

They don't need my help, they are doing just fine slicing you up on their own.

[FitChick]

I just did an assignment for my counseling class today that showed which types of therapy were most effective in treating various problems, with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy being the most effective form of therapy used.

 

CBT makes people feel better because they have someone to talk to who is objective. They could talk to someone they sat next to on a plane and feel better, in my opinion. CBT is not very effective when it comes to changing patterns of behavior because it tries to talk patients out of their beliefs which determine that behavior. Just look at verhrzn's and somedude's many threads on here. It never worked for me nor for the thousands of people, including therapists, transformational professionals and psychologists, who turned to the Lefkoe Method and finally made significant changes in less time for less money. They also incorporated the method in their practices.

 

Health insurance companies are putting a strict limit on how many sessions they pay for instead of having it go on for years and years with little result. Woody Allen is the poster child for ineffective CBT.

 

If you plan to become a counselor, you really ought to consider taking a course with Morty, if he's still offering them.

[somedude81]

I tried CBT for a while and it didn't do anything for me. Yeah what I enjoyed the most was actually talking to somebody about my problems.

 

My real, real issue, is that I'm lonely. I've been alone for far too long.

 

For some reason I don't know why, I want the company of a woman more than anything in the world. Even when I'm with buddies, all I can think about is how much I want a girl.

 

Yeah I have some requirements in that women that some would deem unreasonable, but that's just how I am. I didn't choose to like what I like in a girl just how I didn't choose whether I'd be straight or gay.

 

It's been two months since I had any communication with D and I still can't get over her. She's was absolutely everything I ever wanted and I would have done anything for her. I don't understand why our paths were allowed to cross if I wasn't going to end up with her

 

It's so stupid arguing over worst case scenarios what if's, when the one who had it all was right there, but just out of my reach.

[KathyM]

CBT makes people feel better because they have someone to talk to who is objective. They could talk to someone they sat next to on a plane and feel better, in my opinion. CBT is not very effective when it comes to changing patterns of behavior because it tries to talk patients out of their beliefs which determine that behavior. Just look at verhrzn's and somedude's many threads on here. It never worked for me nor for the thousands of people, including therapists, transformational professionals and psychologists, who turned to the Lefkoe Method and finally made significant changes in less time for less money. They also incorporated the method in their practices.

 

Health insurance companies are putting a strict limit on how many sessions they pay for instead of having it go on for years and years with little result. Woody Allen is the poster child for ineffective CBT.

 

If you plan to become a counselor, you really ought to consider taking a course with Morty, if he's still offering them.

CBT is solution oriented and meant to be more short term therapy. I've actually tried it myself a while back to deal with performance anxiety when I had to perform solos with an orchestra in front of hundreds of people. The counselor taught me relaxation techniques, deep breathing techniques, visualization, positive self-talk, etc., and it did help me quite a bit. It's been shown to be the most effective method of therapy for many different conditions, and it's backed up by empirical evidence of producing positive results. It teaches new behaviors. It's not just talking to somebody, it's focused on skill building. I also took a marriage fitness course a while back, taught by a popular counselor, which would be considered Behavioral Therapy. It helped my marriage a lot to learn skills that strengthened our marriage and improved our connection. CBT focuses on learning new patterns of behavior to replace dysfunctional ones. It's meant to be short term, and solution focused. I think you are confusing CBT with Psychoanalytic Therapy, which goes on for a lengthy period of time, and is not shown to be highly effective. CBT is proven to be the most effective type of therapy used for a variety of conditions--backed up by studies on its effectiveness. I'm actually planning to specialize in couple's counseling, and plan to use a lot of the techniques I learned in Mort Fertel's Marriage Fitness course. I think he has an effective method of improving couple relationships.

[KathyM]

I tried CBT for a while and it didn't do anything for me. Yeah what I enjoyed the most was actually talking to somebody about my problems.

 

My real, real issue, is that I'm lonely. I've been alone for far too long.

 

For some reason I don't know why, I want the company of a woman more than anything in the world. Even when I'm with buddies, all I can think about is how much I want a girl.

 

Yeah I have some requirements in that women that some would deem unreasonable, but that's just how I am. I didn't choose to like what I like in a girl just how I didn't choose whether I'd be straight or gay.

 

It's been two months since I had any communication with D and I still can't get over her. She's was absolutely everything I ever wanted and I would have done anything for her. I don't understand why our paths were allowed to cross if I wasn't going to end up with her

 

It's so stupid arguing over worst case scenarios what if's, when the one who had it all was right there, but just out of my reach.

I understand how much you want female companionship. I sympathize. It must be incredibly frustrating to want something so bad, which a lot of people take for granted, and not being able to get it. It's also understandable that you would want a woman who is physically fit, and with at least an average breast size. A lot of men are infatuated with breasts--nothing to be ashamed of. My husband is as well. Nevermind with these guys trying to lay a guilt trip on you for wanting what every other man wants. Now if you were saying that you expect a woman to have a D cup size and wouldn't consider anyone else as dating material, I'd agree with these guys that you are superficial and unrealistic. But from what I've read, that's just a preference, and you would be fine with an average-sized woman. I'm sorry your relationship with that woman did not work out. But it's time to focus on changing what you can to improve your chances of meeting someone who would have potential as a gf. And next time, don't invest so much time in a relationship that is not moving towards a romantic one very early on. This friends first kind of mentality that some people seem to have is not really the way to go, IMO. You need to try multiple methods of improving your chances of finding people to date. OLD, meet up groups, hobby and interest groups, etc. Then chat people up and invite them out for coffee or whatever. Time to take action and be persistent.

[Meeks7]

81, I don't think the 4 female posters are attacking you. If anything, you should rid yourself of this defensive mindset and instead be open to their viewpoints. I find one learns so much more when one is open, as opposed to "woe is me, the world is against me."

 

 

It's been two months since I had any communication with D and I still can't get over her. She's was absolutely everything I ever wanted and I would have done anything for her. I don't understand why our paths were allowed to cross if I wasn't going to end up with her

 

Every experience is an opportunity for us as human beings to:

 

1. Learn

2. Grow

 

Unfortunately, many people use seemingly "negative" experiences to grow cynical, bitter and jaded. Instead, learn from the things that went haywire (so to speak) from that relationship, and write it down in a journal. It helps to do that I find.

 

Grow and learn from it.

 

Don't let it bog you down. It will help set you up for a future relationship, but only if you learn how to take the good and bad from it and use that info to help shape you as a man TODAY.

[Ariadne]

Well,

 

I wanted to add to this discussion, that I was very glad to see recently the pictures of the wedding of an old forum friend (a different forum).

 

She is a big girl, and doesn't fit the standards of attractiveness that have been discussed in this forum for the most part..

 

But for what I remember about her, she was always a lot of fun! She always had something funny and witty to say, she was cool and easy going, nice, and everyone liked her.

 

I went ahead and created an album with some of her pictures. I think she looks absolutely beautiful, her new husband seems radiant, and in fact they all look so happy.

 

When I see her pictures I think, what a woman! And I imagine her husband must feel so proud to have her.

[Anela]

I've met men like this too. In fact, they are surprisingly common nowadays. It kind of makes you wonder how they got there (being a 40 year old virgin hoping for pity sex despite being good looking, educated and financially successful) while all sorts of lowlives, criminals, deadbeats, etc. have no problem attracting women.

 

it all goes to show that being a good man and doing what you are "supposed to" (getting an education and a good job) is more of a hindrance then a benefit, at least when it comes to women. And people wonder why men are "underachieving".

 

I think the difference there is confidence, or the illusion of such. I've noticed the differences for myself, when it comes to my own extreme shyness compared to putting myself out there.

[Anela]

You don't seem to understand that while SOME women do that, OTHER women are more than happy to keep these men. Unfortunately, all 4 of the women on this thread who are keeping, or interested in keeping, such men, would not be with you because they believe you superficial, and yet you refuse to accept or work on that. None of us would also fit your requirements. Catch-22, anyone?

 

This, too.

 

I've only ever been interested in the *good* men.

[Anela]

Aww, c'mon, SD, it's not an attack. I could really care less what sort of girls you prefer or don't. It's just frustrating to see you unhappy time and time again with your loneliness, when we know that this mindset of yours is going to drive away precisely the sort of girl you seem to want - if it hasn't already, unbeknownst to you.

 

If you can't see why a girl might dislike a man who thinks there is nothing wrong with asking a partner to get breast surgery, or why it sounds so immature for your partner's weight gain to be your primary concern re: pregnancy and post-natal care, and so on and so forth... well, I suppose there is little point in me trying to explain it. Hopefully one day you will get it, and when that day comes, perhaps you may finally get a gf who accepts and loves you for who you are, as I would like to think that zengirl, myself, and xxoo love our partners - not the plaster cast of a man that she has in her mind

 

Good luck.

 

This.

 

I meant to add yesterday, that I wasn't picking on you. I admitted in another thread, that I wasn't ready to post something, because I was feeling sensitive and didn't want to put myself out there.

[Anela]

I understand how much you want female companionship. I sympathize. It must be incredibly frustrating to want something so bad, which a lot of people take for granted, and not being able to get it. It's also understandable that you would want a woman who is physically fit, and with at least an average breast size. A lot of men are infatuated with breasts--nothing to be ashamed of. My husband is as well. Nevermind with these guys trying to lay a guilt trip on you for wanting what every other man wants. Now if you were saying that you expect a woman to have a D cup size and wouldn't consider anyone else as dating material, I'd agree with these guys that you are superficial and unrealistic. But from what I've read, that's just a preference, and you would be fine with an average-sized woman. I'm sorry your relationship with that woman did not work out. But it's time to focus on changing what you can to improve your chances of meeting someone who would have potential as a gf. And next time, don't invest so much time in a relationship that is not moving towards a romantic one very early on. This friends first kind of mentality that some people seem to have is not really the way to go, IMO. You need to try multiple methods of improving your chances of finding people to date. OLD, meet up groups, hobby and interest groups, etc. Then chat people up and invite them out for coffee or whatever. Time to take action and be persistent.

 

Nobody was trying to guilt-trip him over breast size. They were just warning him that the body can change after pregnancy, and that asking someone to go through breast augmentation surgery is a bit much.

 

I have a decent sized chest, and I know all too well how many men out there appreciate them; I've never liked the idea that someone might want to date my boobs, though (instead of me, as a person).