What Are Realistic Expectations In Dating?

[Meeks7]

I'd get over the issue once I get into a relationship.

 

And yeah, I'm aware of the whole catch-22 thing, about how I expect to get into a relationship while I have issues with my height.

 

You need to get over it BEFORE getting into a relationship.

I'd go as far as to say IF you don't get over it, odds are very low you would ever get into a relationship. Sorry. Girls are attracted to confident guys. If you can't get over something as silly as height, you don't stand a good chance of catching a (good) girl.

[xxoo]

I've never heard this before...curse you, nature.

 

How often does this happen? I had heard of them remaining larger, never heard of them getting smaller. WHAT A GYP!

 

I thought breasts most often ended up bigger after having a baby.

 

Haha! Sorry to break the news

 

Every woman is different, and some do get bigger....but that is generally due to being bigger all over (keeping some of the weight gained in pregnancy).

 

Among the thin women I know who returned to pre-pregnancy size, loss of a cup size or more is a common experience.

 

Why does it happen? Women's bodies CHANGE after pregnancy. Full breasts are mostly fat, and fat can redistribute after pregnancy.

 

It doesn't have to be seen as a bad thing. I prefer my smaller size! H loves them no matter what

 

But my point is....having a very narrow view of acceptable body shapes in women can be offputting, even for women that fit the bill. We want to be desired throughout the changes that come with pregnancy, motherhood, and age.

[verhrzn]

I'd get over the issue once I get into a relationship.

 

And yeah, I'm aware of the whole catch-22 thing, about how I expect to get into a relationship while I have issues with my height.

 

Burn it with FIRE, the problem is NOT your height, has never BEEN your height, your obsession with your height is your own insecurity separated entirely from reality or evidence. Stop obsessing about your height and find the actual problem.

[Lonely Ronin]

I'd get over the issue once I get into a relationship.

 

You completely miss the point, you have an extreme insecurity about your height. Regardless of what you say, an insecurity of this magnitude shows through IRL. A woman might not know what your insecure about, but she is going to know your really insecure about something, and that's a huge turn off to most people period.

 

As you are now, i bet you have chased a way a few potential partners already, because I bet you are incredibly needy and don't even realize it. I picture you getting insecure and suspicious if you saw a girl you where dating talking and laughing with a guy taller than you. You need to get comfortable in your own skin, or no woman is going to want to have anything to do with you.

[zengirl]

I fixate on them because they're the one thing I've gotten feedback on that holds me back.

 

First of all: That's patently absurd, though. Even if you don't look as good as your pics, I know 20 girls who are less classically attractive and have great relationships without even thinking about it! I'm sure you see people out and about who are not super-gorgeous who are holding hands and married and so forth. I promise you people who look all different ways find dating and relationship success.

 

You BELIEVE your looks are holding you back, so they are. Until you change your belief system on this, your life will probably not change. You may get lucky and meet someone who makes you feel differently --- some people do experience that --- but most people have to fix their limiting beliefs themselves.

 

Do I think everyone loves how you look? Probably not. Most people are not attractive to everyone. Do I think people could find flaws in your appearance? Probably. Most people (maybe ALL people) have physical flaws. Do I think most people think you look ugly and disgusting and undateable? No. But you do, and therein lies the problem. A lot of how people respond to such questions and discussions depends upon how YOU feel and ask the questions, too, and a lot of how you take the feedback depends upon your own filter, which is out of whack.

 

Exes haven't dumped me for being insecure or not being smart enough. They've dumped me for being unattractive. How could I NOT fixate on the thing that I've been told is what's wrong, and yet I seem unable to fix?

 

Men (and women, frankly) will sometimes say ANYTHING when they feel trapped and want out, and you probably ARE unattractive by the time they want out. Generally speaking, whenever you really want to break up with someone, they start becoming unattractive to you.

 

I also don't see how beating myself up would lead to the feedback. I beat myself up BECAUSE of the feedback. I've always thought I was unattractive in comparison to my peers, but I didn't particularly CARE that I was until after my first boyfriend dumped me for a hotter girl.

 

Even THINKING you're unattractive makes you unattractive, whether you CARE or not. You're missing the point. You think you're unattractive, thus you seek out people (subconsciously) and situations that will reinforce your own low self worth. That's what people do. It's basic psychology; of course you cannot see the cycle since you're trapped within it. You have to get OUT to see it. But you stubbornly dig deeper in. That's human nature too.

 

Back then, I considered my looks kind of... inconsequential. It wasn't until that first brutal dumping I realized that the whole "Oh beauty is only skin deep, your looks don't matter!" was utter bs.

 

Well of course looks matter! I've never said they don't. And yes, I can tell it bothers you that how you look is part of who you are -- just PART of it, but it's not inconsequential. Not in dating and not elsewhere either. How you look impacts how people perceive you in many ways. And is a part of who you are.

 

Well I minimize feedback on this site because the feedback is coming from a single picture (or two) that I'm not sure accurately represent me in real life. How is that a sign of low self-esteem?

 

Everything you say about your looks is a sign of low self esteem! As to how that shows you minimize feedback, it establishes a pattern of being unable to take a compliment. You are sure you're ugly, so you seek feedback that resonates as true and suggests that you're ugly. Doesn't mean you ARE ugly.

 

And exactly how does one go about "working on these issues"? How does one convince themselves that it's either okay to be unattractive, or that being unattractive isn't their problem when ALL the evidence points to that being the problem exactly?

 

Wrong thing to convince yourself. The thing you need to convince yourself is to LIKE the way you look. How? Different methods, but in your case I'd say some kind of therapeutic outlet, since you already exercise and don't have a particular fixation (like acne) that needs to be medically treated.

[somedude81]

Jesus Man it's not just her.........

 

How would you feel if your where dating a woman and she told you, "I think you should have leg extension surgery so you're taller", because that would make you closer to her ideal man? Suggesting a woman get implants is pretty much the same thing.

The discussion between me and zengirl was not about implants or surgery.

 

You need to get over it BEFORE getting into a relationship.

I'd go as far as to say IF you don't get over it, odds are very low you would ever get into a relationship. Sorry. Girls are attracted to confident guys. If you can't get over something as silly as height, you don't stand a good chance of catching a (good) girl.

 

You completely miss the point, you have an extreme insecurity about your height. Regardless of what you say, an insecurity of this magnitude shows through IRL. A woman might not know what your insecure about, but she is going to know your really insecure about something, and that's a huge turn off to most people period.

 

As you are now, i bet you have chased a way a few potential partners already, because I bet you are incredibly needy and don't even realize it. I picture you getting insecure and suspicious if you saw a girl you where dating talking and laughing with a guy taller than you. You need to get comfortable in your own skin, or no woman is going to want to have anything to do with you.

 

 

There are more things I need to work on about myself than getting over my height.

 

 

My insecurity comes from me being rejected by every single girl I have ever liked.

 

Frankly, my height is just the first thing I blame when I get rejected. Of course, getting tons of data that supports the fact that women like tall guys isn't helping.

 

 

Haha! Sorry to break the news

 

Every woman is different, and some do get bigger....but that is generally due to being bigger all over (keeping some of the weight gained in pregnancy).

 

Among the thin women I know who returned to pre-pregnancy size, loss of a cup size or more is a common experience.

 

Why does it happen? Women's bodies CHANGE after pregnancy. Full breasts are mostly fat, and fat can redistribute after pregnancy.

Well that's depressing.

 

But my point is....having a very narrow view of acceptable body shapes in women can be offputting, even for women that fit the bill. We want to be desired throughout the changes that come with pregnancy, motherhood, and age.

Frankly, I have no idea how things will be once I'm in a serious relationship. Talking about how I'll react after my wife has kids seems like something from the twilight zone.

 

Burn it with FIRE, the problem is NOT your height, has never BEEN your height, your obsession with your height is your own insecurity separated entirely from reality or evidence. Stop obsessing about your height and find the actual problem.

 

Burn it with FIRE, the problem is NOT your appearance, has never BEEN your appearance, your obsession with your appearance is your own insecurity separated entirely from reality or evidence. Stop obsessing about your appearance and find the actual problem.

 

[Ross MwcFan]

Agreed--most women would find him vanilla and boring. Some would be drawn to that if they're that way themselves, but it's tougher to get a spark going if you're both that way.

 

I'm fairly passionate about a number of things, but even if I wasn't, a connection with a woman itself is something I easily get passionate about. I'm highly libido-driven and crave affection, love, and sex, so I'm greatly passionate about talking with women. Sometimes that comes out more awkwardly than others on dates, depending upon the woman and my mood. Without passion for women, there'd be little or no spark on dates, and without sparks, romance usually doesn't happen.

 

Women are something that I can be passionate about, I forgot about that.

[verhrzn]

Burn it with FIRE, the problem is NOT your appearance, has never BEEN your appearance, your obsession with your appearance is your own insecurity separated entirely from reality or evidence. Stop obsessing about your appearance and find the actual problem.

 

 

Again, the problem with drawing parellels between you and me (as several posters have done) is that I DO have evidence that it's my appearance. Like, people in high school telling me I was too ugly to be seen, so they shoved me into a locker for a few hours. People making jokes about how I should kill myself because I'm so unattractive. Being mooed at in bars. Being told by several male friends that they'd totally date me, if I was attractive. Being told DIRECTLY by exes that I was unattractive to them.

 

And your evidence is, a single girl told you one time she wouldn't date short men. (If 5'7" is so very short.) That's it. That's all. Everything else is your insecurity and you laying all the blame for your failure at dating on that SINGLE trait, without ever actually CONFIRMING with the women who rejected you that that was indeed the reason (which I can pretty much bet the farm that for 9 out of 10 cases, it wasn't.)

 

And I have NO idea where you get this notion that there's SO much evidence out there girls like "tall" men (they like tall-ER men, as in men taller than themselves.) For every single female saying they prefer a man over 6' are two females saying they couldn't really care less about height, even in an ideal situation.

 

Compare that to nearly EVERY single male poster saying their ideal girl is incredibly hot and attractive. Give me a break.

[somedude81]

V, we're like two brick walls having an argument.

 

I'm tired of it and it doesn't do anything to help.

 

Can we stop making war?

[somedude81]

Women are something that I can be passionate about, I forgot about that.

Sorry Ross, I don't think that counts.

[Ross MwcFan]

Sorry Ross, I don't think that counts.

 

EC seems to think it does, from what I quoted. But personally, I honeslty wouldn't know whether it does count or not.

 

I guess I could say that I'd be passionate about saving animals lives and/or easing their suffering.

[iris219]

Again, the problem with drawing parellels between you and me (as several posters have done) is that I DO have evidence that it's my appearance. Like, people in high school telling me I was too ugly to be seen, so they shoved me into a locker for a few hours. People making jokes about how I should kill myself because I'm so unattractive. Being mooed at in bars. Being told by several male friends that they'd totally date me, if I was attractive. Being told DIRECTLY by exes that I was unattractive to them.

 

Stop it, V! You are fixated on this and it's seriously unhealthy. You have repeated this "evidence" of your unattractiveness many times before. Stop trying to confirm your unattractiveness by citing the same few pieces of evidence. These few examples confirm nothing, although I understand that it made you feel awful.

 

You have been missing an important point: It doesn't matter if you're ugly or pretty. Ugly people do not leave society and crawl under a rock. They live full, satisfying lives. The find meaning based on factors besides how they look. They accept what look like and their self worth isn't dependent on it.

 

You have to work on accepting what you look like. You have to untangle the idea that your worth as a person is defined by your attractiveness. It's not about others finding you attractive. It's about accepting yourself, and this is where therapy will be helpful. If you don't do this now, you are going to have a terrible time with your self esteem as you age and your attractiveness decreases.

Edited January 25, 2012 by iris219

[FitChick]

Again, the problem with drawing parellels between you and me (as several posters have done) is that I DO have evidence that it's my appearance.

 

That's why both you and somedude would be perfect candidates for the Lefkoe Method. The more you say the more I am totally convinced your main problem could be fixed in one session. No one would recognize you afterward. It would be like a creature from another planet inhabited your bodies. Your entire world view would change for the better.

 

Pity neither of you have the guts to do it.

[EnigmaticClarity]

EC seems to think it does, from what I quoted. But personally, I honeslty wouldn't know whether it does count or not.

 

I guess I could say that I'd be passionate about saving animals lives and/or easing their suffering.

 

It's extremely useful because it makes you seem more in the moment in dates by hopefully making your conversations with women more zesty and heartfelt if you truly are passionate about women, so it counts. Somedude is right in that it's not enough--most women will want you to have other things you're passionate about besides them, they'll want you to have a fulfilling life away from them, outside the relationship.

 

Do you actually do anything to save animal's lives or ease their suffering, or was that a hypothetical?

[FitChick]

Jennifer Flavin-Stallone and her husband Sly have been together about 20 years. He paid for her plastic surgery while they were dating. He's had surgery himself, so for both of them this wasn't a problem.

[Lonely Ronin]

The discussion between me and zengirl was not about implants or surgery.

 

Really, you didn't say this?

The basic context was, if I was in a serious relationship with a woman who was an A-cup or smaller, I would talk to her about getting implants.

 

In this post?

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3810952&postcount=196

 

There are more things I need to work on about myself than getting over my height.

 

 

My insecurity comes from me being rejected by every single girl I have ever liked.

 

Frankly, my height is just the first thing I blame when I get rejected. Of course, getting tons of data that supports the fact that women like tall guys isn't helping.

You might have more than one issue, but as you just said, it's the first thing you blame when you get rejected. It's your biggest hang up, and most likely your biggest limiting factor.

 

Of course women like tall guys, most of them have the one thing that you appear to be lacking the most, confidence.

[skelterhelter]

My expectations? Don't cheat, lie, do drugs or disrespect me/others. Be able to support yourself financially and always treat others with kindness. That is all I want.

[EnigmaticClarity]

Jennifer Flavin-Stallone and her husband Sly have been together about 20 years. He paid for her plastic surgery while they were dating. He's had surgery himself, so for both of them this wasn't a problem.

 

What surgery has he had? Is it related to his nerve-dead cheek he's had since birth that helps make him look so distinctively tough?

[verhrzn]

That's why both you and somedude would be perfect candidates for the Lefkoe Method. The more you say the more I am totally convinced your main problem could be fixed in one session. No one would recognize you afterward. It would be like a creature from another planet inhabited your bodies. Your entire world view would change for the better.

 

Pity neither of you have the guts to do it.

 

What, pay hundreds, possibly thousands, of dollars for a cure-all that doesn't have any scientific backing behind it? You're right, I don't have the guts to pour tons of money into a scam...

[somedude81]

Really, you didn't say this?

 

 

In this post?

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3810952&postcount=196

I wasn't aware that Elwsyth and Zengirl were the same person.

You might have more than one issue, but as you just said, it's the first thing you blame when you get rejected. It's your biggest hang up, and most likely your biggest limiting factor.

How is me blaming my height a limiting factor?

Of course women like tall guys, most of them have the one thing that you appear to be lacking the most, confidence.

 

Women like tall guys because they are tall.

[Ross MwcFan]

It's extremely useful because it makes you seem more in the moment in dates by hopefully making your conversations with women more zesty and heartfelt if you truly are passionate about women, so it counts. Somedude is right in that it's not enough--most women will want you to have other things you're passionate about besides them, they'll want you to have a fulfilling life away from them, outside the relationship.

 

Do you actually do anything to save animal's lives or ease their suffering, or was that a hypothetical?

 

Hypothetical.

[EnigmaticClarity]

Hypothetical.

 

Well not that inspiring to a girl then. If you did something like volunteer at an animal shelter and told me that on a date, it's so selfless and sympathetically caring I'd think you were lying about it in a lame attempt to get into my pants. If I pressed you on it and it were clearly real, though, it's one of many steps that might actually get you into my hypothetical girl-pants.

[Lonely Ronin]

I wasn't aware that Elwsyth and Zengirl were the same person.

 

Don't try and change the subject, you posted the line I quoted, and that is exactly why you are getting grief on this thread from multiple people.

 

 

Women like tall guys because they are tall.

 

This stupid believe is exactly why you will continue to fail with women.

 

If I had to pick one thing tall men have (IME), that you don't, it would be confidence. Your lack of confidence seems to be directly tied to the fact that you think women aren't attracted to you because of your height. Therefore it is your biggest limiting factor. Confidence might not attract women to you, but not having it will surely drive them away.

[somedude81]

Reread the exchange between Zengirl and I.

 

Google, "why women like tall men."

 

"Because they are confident" will not be an answer. There is a whole bunch of things that will come up that I am not going to discus or even think about because it will just make me feel insecure.

[irc333]

If you think about it, there's always unattractive people getting together and even in relationships.

 

So can there be an excuse?

 

Stop it, V! You are fixated on this and it's seriously unhealthy. You have repeated this "evidence" of your unattractiveness many times before. Stop trying to confirm your unattractiveness by citing the same few pieces of evidence. These few examples confirm nothing, although I understand that it made you feel awful.

 

You have been missing an important point: It doesn't matter if you're ugly or pretty. Ugly people do not leave society and crawl under a rock. They live full, satisfying lives. The find meaning based on factors besides how they look. They accept what look like and their self worth isn't dependent on it.

 

You have to work on accepting what you look like. You have to untangle the idea that your worth as a person is defined by your attractiveness. It's not about others finding you attractive. It's about accepting yourself, and this is where therapy will be helpful. If you don't do this now, you are going to have a terrible time with your self esteem as you age and your attractiveness decreases.