What Are Realistic Expectations In Dating?

[Anela]

Well,

 

I wanted to add to this discussion, that I was very glad to see recently the pictures of the wedding of an old forum friend (a different forum).

 

She is a big girl, and doesn't fit the standards of attractiveness that have been discussed in this forum for the most part..

 

But for what I remember about her, she was always a lot of fun! She always had something funny and witty to say, she was cool and easy going, nice, and everyone liked her.

 

I went ahead and created an album with some of her pictures. I think she looks absolutely beautiful, her new husband seems radiant, and in fact they all look so happy.

 

When I see her pictures I think, what a woman! And I imagine her husband must feel so proud to have her.

 

She looks beautiful! and so happy. Thank you for sharing.

[Els]

Of course it was an attack. How else should I interpret, "Unfortunately, all 4 of the women on this thread who are keeping, or interested in keeping, such men, would not be with you because they believe you superficial."

 

Elswyth, you assume so much about me and what I say to women I know, and then reach as far as you can for the conclusion about me that you've already decided upon.

 

Don't you think you are taking this a little too personally?

 

You may not necessarily say it to them, but it is ingrained in your mindset, and eventually it will slip out and show itself. I really do mean no offense and took none; as I have said, I only wish you the best.

[zengirl]

Re: Therapy

 

The reason there are therapy 'failures' is because the people don't want to change. Therapy is not magic. It is also not something done 'to' you. Most people don't need lifelong therapy---unless they are managing a chemical imbalance and will forever be on meds---in order to overcome their issues, but rather can go to solution-oriented therapy when issues arise. The reason that doesn't always work is that people go and don't want to do the work. Yes, there is some self-work to do. It's not just showing up and talking. A good therapist will point out ways you can work on yourself, and that's where most people fall short, especially if insurance is footing the bill.

 

But it's not "therapy" that fails people most of the time -- it's the people who fail themselves. (I'm sure there are some crap therapists, of course. But overall, I mean.)

[EnigmaticClarity]

I agree with FitChick--I'm sure the training and experience therapists have make them MUCH more efficient people to bounce your problems off of than the average person, but over half of the value of therapy is just sitting there and opening yourself up to an objective third party who listens well, is fairly empathic and intelligent, and tries to analyze and offer advice to deal with those problems. I feel able to be objective and open myself up to almost anyone, but I see quite clearly that the vast majority of people are unable to do that for many and varying reasons.

 

I find therapy to be extremely useful--but therapy can come from anywhere. I use forums for it, I use friends and family for it, I use Google searching to find other people's insight on the web for problems as I face them. Professionals seem to mostly be for either closed-minded people who can't open up to others, or people who don't happen to have intelligent, empathic, objective people in their lives they can talk to.

 

If I'm wrong, I'd love to know how.

[zengirl]

I agree with FitChick--I'm sure the training and experience therapists have make them MUCH more efficient people to bounce your problems off of than the average person, but over half of the value of therapy is just sitting there and opening yourself up to an objective third party who listens well, is fairly empathic and intelligent, and tries to analyze and offer advice to deal with those problems. I feel able to be objective and open myself up to almost anyone, but I see quite clearly that the vast majority of people are unable to do that for many and varying reasons.

 

I find therapy to be extremely useful--but therapy can come from anywhere. I use forums for it, I use friends and family for it, I use Google searching to find other people's insight on the web for problems as I face them. Professionals seem to mostly be for either closed-minded people who can't open up to others, or people who don't happen to have intelligent, empathic, objective people in their lives they can talk to.

 

If I'm wrong, I'd love to know how.

 

That’s not really wrong. If you are good at examining yourself and fixing yourself, a therapist is fairly unnecessary. I’ve gone to therapy and found value in it, but most of the times I’ve helped myself with other methods, particularly the study of Zen. But there’s a

 

Someone listening to your problems . . . that’s using therapy as a crutch and is unlikely to be truly helpful.

 

Someone helping you see what you can’t see in terms of SOLVING your problems is the goal of therapy, but since most patients need to come to their own conclusions to some degree (the doctor or counselor can guide them or diagnose them, but if the person doesn’t agree 100%, the problem will never be fixed), a lot of people don’t solve their problems. They don’t want to. They aren’t ready. Nobody can ‘fix’ you but yourself, but trained professionals can help. So can other sources. It all depends on the person and what’s most effective for him/her.

[EnigmaticClarity]

most of the times I’ve helped myself with other methods, particularly the study of Zen

 

Same. I studied Zen intensely between the ages of 17 and 22 (I'm 40 now), and I frequently use it to blank my mind and open my senses up to the physical world and/or new lines of thinking when I need to. Great philosophy for getting rid of mental waste and focusing on whatever it is you want or need to focus on.

Edited January 26, 2012 by EnigmaticClarity

[Ross MwcFan]

I tried CBT for a while and it didn't do anything for me. Yeah what I enjoyed the most was actually talking to somebody about my problems.

 

My real, real issue, is that I'm lonely. I've been alone for far too long.

 

For some reason I don't know why, I want the company of a woman more than anything in the world. Even when I'm with buddies, all I can think about is how much I want a girl.

 

Yeah I have some requirements in that women that some would deem unreasonable, but that's just how I am. I didn't choose to like what I like in a girl just how I didn't choose whether I'd be straight or gay.

 

It's been two months since I had any communication with D and I still can't get over her. She's was absolutely everything I ever wanted and I would have done anything for her. I don't understand why our paths were allowed to cross if I wasn't going to end up with her

 

It's so stupid arguing over worst case scenarios what if's, when the one who had it all was right there, but just out of my reach.

 

That's how it was for me when I did CBT, the CBT itself didn't really seem to help, it was the talking to the CBT therapist once a week that helped, it gave me support.

[Ross MwcFan]

Well,

 

I wanted to add to this discussion, that I was very glad to see recently the pictures of the wedding of an old forum friend (a different forum).

 

She is a big girl, and doesn't fit the standards of attractiveness that have been discussed in this forum for the most part..

 

But for what I remember about her, she was always a lot of fun! She always had something funny and witty to say, she was cool and easy going, nice, and everyone liked her.

 

I went ahead and created an album with some of her pictures. I think she looks absolutely beautiful, her new husband seems radiant, and in fact they all look so happy.

 

When I see her pictures I think, what a woman! And I imagine her husband must feel so proud to have her.

 

I think she looks really hot, totally my type. That guy is really lucky.

[FitChick]

I've actually tried it myself a while back to deal with performance anxiety... The counselor taught me relaxation techniques, deep breathing techniques, visualization, positive self-talk, etc., and it did help me quite a bit.

 

If you had used the Lefkoe Method you wouldn't have needed to do all those things. It's effortless You automatically make the right choices and your life changes for the better without you having to CONSCIOUSLY do anything. The lazy man's therapy!

 

I am unaware of any CBT counselor who offers a money back guarantee for people with a fear of public speaking or social anxiety.

 

Everyone needs to find what works best for them so it's good to know what choices you have.

[somedude81]

I understand how much you want female companionship. I sympathize. It must be incredibly frustrating to want something so bad, which a lot of people take for granted, and not being able to get it. It's also understandable that you would want a woman who is physically fit, and with at least an average breast size. A lot of men are infatuated with breasts--nothing to be ashamed of. My husband is as well.

Thank you. It is very frustrating and most people just can't understand.

 

And for the physical, a non-fat woman with at least average size breasts, I've just been that way since I was 12. It's also what the majority of men want but they won't say it out-loud because they fear being called shallow.

 

Nevermind with these guys trying to lay a guilt trip on you for wanting what every other man wants. Now if you were saying that you expect a woman to have a D cup size and wouldn't consider anyone else as dating material, I'd agree with these guys that you are superficial and unrealistic. But from what I've read, that's just a preference, and you would be fine with an average-sized woman.

Exactly.

 

While I think it would be amazing to have a GF that's a D cup or larger, it's hardly a requirement. I've stated time and again that I'm fine with average. My guess is that the woman who are getting on my case are just insecure about their size and looking for a reason to lash out.

 

I definitely understand that feeling. It hurts when I hear/read about women saying that they prefer tall men. But I also understand that it's just the way women are. Also I have never put down a woman who said she wants an average height to tall guy.

 

 

I'm sorry your relationship with that woman did not work out. But it's time to focus on changing what you can to improve your chances of meeting someone who would have potential as a gf.

Changing what I can to improve my chances.

 

That is such a difficult statement. It's very broad. First I need to figure out what needs changing and if it's possible to change.

 

 

 

And next time, don't invest so much time in a relationship that is not moving towards a romantic one very early on. This friends first kind of mentality that some people seem to have is not really the way to go

The thing between me and her was really complicated.

 

Though I understand what you mean about friends first not being the way to go. All also add that it's a very bad idea to stick around when a girl has already given a rejection. Trying to win her over like something out of a TV doesn't work.

 

, IMO. You need to try multiple methods of improving your chances of finding people to date. OLD, meet up groups, hobby and interest groups, etc. Then chat people up and invite them out for coffee or whatever. Time to take action and be persistent.

And that's my goal for this year. To try the other methods.

 

You may not necessarily say it to them, but it is ingrained in your mindset, and eventually it will slip out and show itself. I really do mean no offense and took none; as I have said, I only wish you the best.

What is ingrained in my mindset? That I have physical preferences that billions of other men share?

 

What I've learned from that thread in which I first made that comment, is that I simply shouldn't date a girl who doesn't meet my minimum requirements.

 

What more needs to be said?

[Els]

But I also understand that it's just the way women are. Also I have never put down a woman who said she wants an average height to tall guy.

 

SD, I distinctly recall a thread in which you said that if a woman ever rejected you for being too short, you would call her 'a superficial bitch'.

 

All also add that it's a very bad idea to stick around when a girl has already given a rejection. Trying to win her over like something out of a TV doesn't work.

 

 

And that's my goal for this year. To try the other methods.

 

Yep, all sounds good.

 

What is ingrained in my mindset? That I have physical preferences that billions of other men share?

 

What I've learned from that thread in which I first made that comment, is that I simply shouldn't date a girl who doesn't meet my minimum requirements.

 

What more needs to be said?

 

No, for the umpteenth time, what is ingrained in your mindset is that there is nothing wrong or superficial about trying to convince a partner to have plastic surgery. It does not matter whether it is for breast, ass, face, whatever - it just so happens that for you, it is the breast, but they really are all the same principle. That reveals a whole host of other things about the man. You say you have learnt that you just should not date them, but you still do not believe that it is a horrible thing to do. All you have learnt is that 'women do not like to hear it' - that is not the same thing! You defend it tenaciously whenever anyone says that it is superficial.

 

Secondly, your requirements for a woman, all bar one, have been purely physical. Again, that reveals a lot into a man's insight. That is not, as I have said, necessarily a bad thing, but if you refuse to believe that it will lower your chances with women who prioritize other things above a man's appearance and career, you will never understand your situation or cease to bemoan it. It is essentially the same as an overweight woman (let us cite thyroid dysfunction or Cushing's disease, to prevent the argument of 'she can change herself, I can't') saying that she can't help but only like men who are 5'7" and above, with curly hair, so what is she to do? There is no easy answer to that, but when you see her talking over and over about how men don't like nice girls and how her genetics screwed her over, you cannot help but want to give her a reality check.

 

There is a reason people often end up with people 'in their league' - and it isn't as simple as they like to believe. The fact is that people often end up with people of similar mindsets - with degree of superficiality being a primary factor. They prize the same thing, and thus birds of the same feather flock together. THAT is the reason hot girls typically end up with rich men, or vice versa (though not as common), or hot girls with hot men, etc. It is not necessarily because the men and women with average looks and pay are 'settling for what they can get', though I don't doubt that some are. The happy others, however, are with their spouses not because they are 'settling' but because to them, there are other things more important than these, and their partner has loads of THAT. And that is what those who believe in 'leagues' (and thus are themselves believers in superficiality) cannot understand.

 

There are plenty of women who would be fine with your primarily physical requirements for a woman, and perhaps even your suggestion of surgery... but those women are likely to have more superficial requirements for their own man as well. If that is you, all well and good. If not, well.. that is my whole point.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Elswyth

[EnigmaticClarity]

No, for the umpteenth time, what is ingrained in your mindset is that there is nothing wrong or superficial about trying to convince a partner to have plastic surgery. It does not matter whether it is for breast, ass, face, whatever - it just so happens that for you, it is the breast, but they really are all the same principle. That reveals a whole host of other things about the man. You say you have learnt that you just should not date them, but you still do not believe that it is a horrible thing to do. All you have learnt is that 'women do not like to hear it' - that is not the same thing! You defend it tenaciously whenever anyone says that it is superficial.

 

He's implicitly learned it's a bad thing in his admission he just needs to not date those women. He just hasn't admitted it, and you have some obsessive need for him to do so. He's not going to, so just let it go. He got the point that it's not cool to suggest boob jobs to women.

[somedude81]

SD, I distinctly recall a thread in which you said that if a woman ever rejected you for being too short, you would call her 'a superficial bitch'.

Just because I will, doesn't mean I have.

 

If a girl is really stupid enough to actually say it, then she deserves that response.

 

No, for the umpteenth time, what is ingrained in your mindset is that there is nothing wrong or superficial about trying to convince a partner to have plastic surgery. It does not matter whether it is for breast, ass, face, whatever - it just so happens that for you, it is the breast, but they really are all the same principle. That reveals a whole host of other things about the man. You say you have learnt that you just should not date them, but you still do not believe that it is a horrible thing to do. All you have learnt is that 'women do not like to hear it' - that is not the same thing! You defend it tenaciously whenever anyone says that it is superficial.

The whole breast thing was a worst case scenario where everything else about the girl was perfect except that she had very small breasts. It would always bug me.

 

The closest comparison I can think of would be a woman who loves sex, can't imagine going without, who is in a relationship with a man who has a micropenis who hasn't been able to statisfy her with it. The sex alternatives haven't be enough for her.

 

Her choices are to end it or have him get surgery. Is she a horrible person for even having the thought?

 

Secondly, your requirements for a woman, all bar one, have been purely physical.

Again, that reveals a lot into a man's insight.

And billions of men want the same thing.

 

Just an average woman.

 

It is essentially the same as an overweight woman (let us cite thyroid dysfunction or Cushing's disease, to prevent the argument of 'she can change herself, I can't') saying that she can't help but only like men who are 5'7" and above, with curly hair, so what is she to do? There is no easy answer to that,

Sure there is. She should keep trying till she gets him while working on improving whatever she can.

 

The happy others, however, are with their spouses not because they are 'settling' but because to them, there are other things more important than these, and their partner has loads of THAT. And that is what those who believe in 'leagues' (and thus are themselves believers in superficiality) cannot understand.

I understand perfectly.

 

Hold on to your head, this just might blow your mind. I would consider it settling if I was in a relationship with a woman who is my complete physical ideal but doesn't have anything in common with me nor enjoy anything I do. I would take the the average girl who meets my minimums, any day over the beauty.

[Els]

EC, lack of admittance of fault is not the same as tenaciously defending something that you have said. In the former, he possibly -could- have learnt, but with the latter, he evidently has not. His mindset remains the same, he has simply learnt to apply socially-acceptable behaviour to cover it up.

 

I could care less for whether he admits it or not, and I am only raising the point again because 1) his complaints (that women only date bad boys, etc) are persisting, and 2) he misrepresents my advice by consistently describing it as something else (not being okay to have preferences, being insecure, etc).

[Els]

Just because I will, doesn't mean I have.

 

If a girl is really stupid enough to actually say it, then she deserves that response.

 

So you don't think that she is superficial for wanting a tall guy if she doesn't say it but just implies it?

 

Eh, in that case, there is nothing more that needs to be said. Everything I have said was based on the assumption that you are unhappy that 'women are superficial', based on a number of your previous posts. If you think it's okay for women to reject you based on height, I certainly think you are more than entitled to the superficial requirements that you have.

[Els]

The whole breast thing was a worst case scenario where everything else about the girl was perfect except that she had very small breasts. It would always bug me.

 

The closest comparison I can think of would be a woman who loves sex, can't imagine going without, who is in a relationship with a man who has a micropenis who hasn't been able to statisfy her with it. The sex alternatives haven't be enough for her.

 

Her choices are to end it or have him get surgery. Is she a horrible person for even having the thought?

 

Sorry, forgot to respond to this. I don't think this is comparable, as a reasonably-sized penis is physiologically required, for many people at least, for the act of sex. I think the equivalent of a woman asking her micropenis bf to consider artificial methods of enlarging it, is a man asking a woman with an unusually small or unelastic hymen opening to get surgery to rectify it, because they cannot have vaginal-penile sex otherwise.

 

What would you think about a woman who loves sharp noses and gets absolutely turned on by them, and asks her bf to get surgery for that?

[EnigmaticClarity]

The whole breast thing was a worst case scenario where everything else about the girl was perfect except that she had very small breasts. It would always bug me.

 

The closest comparison I can think of would be a woman who loves sex, can't imagine going without, who is in a relationship with a man who has a micropenis who hasn't been able to statisfy her with it. The sex alternatives haven't be enough for her.

 

A-cup is more like a 3 or 4 inch penis, AA would be comparable to micropenis--but the comparison is flawed because with micropenis you probably can't even procreate without a doctor helping, and that changes the entire relationship dynamic.

 

I used to think exactly as you do until I met my ex. Pretty sure you'd VERY quickly put it into better perspective if you met a "perfect" woman. It was always an issue for me, yea...but there are always issues in any relationship, you trade one set of issues for another when you go out with someone new, and it really did turn out to be far more minor than I guessed it'd be.

[Anela]

 

While I think it would be amazing to have a GF that's a D cup or larger, it's hardly a requirement. I've stated time and again that I'm fine with average. My guess is that the woman who are getting on my case are just insecure about their size and looking for a reason to lash out.

 

I'm a D cup, and wasn't lashing out.

 

My father is short. Mum dated taller men before she married him, and before she remarried him. He's the only one to ever get her down the aisle. He occasionally admits to feeling "less than", because he isn't some hulking guy, but he used to work out a lot and built up his muscle and strength. He picked me up just fine, when I was sixteen and he was playing.

 

Also, I tried to tell you, and others, last November, how much I can relate to your own situation, but in my own way, and you and those other men dismissed my feelings and what I was saying, all because I'm a woman, and because of your own assumptions. I had been in a good mood that night, until you guys kept doing that, and I ended up in tears.

[somedude81]

Every experience is an opportunity for us as human beings to:

 

1. Learn

2. Grow

 

Unfortunately, many people use seemingly "negative" experiences to grow cynical, bitter and jaded. Instead, learn from the things that went haywire (so to speak) from that relationship, and write it down in a journal. It helps to do that I find.

 

Grow and learn from it.

 

Don't let it bog you down. It will help set you up for a future relationship, but only if you learn how to take the good and bad from it and use that info to help shape you as a man TODAY.

What really gets me is that I've had nothing but negative experiences. Yeah I do learn from each one, but just once in my life I'd like things to actually go right. I feel that if I want to be happy I'm going to have to fight the world and everybody is going to try and keep me down. Then fate thinks it's funny to tease me every now and then, presenting me with what I desperately want, but not letting me have it.

So you don't think that she is superficial for wanting a tall guy if she doesn't say it but just implies it?

 

Eh, in that case, there is nothing more that needs to be said. Everything I have said was based on the assumption that you are unhappy that 'women are superficial', based on a number of your previous posts. If you think it's okay for women to reject you based on height, I certainly think you are more than entitled to the superficial requirements that you have.

You ignored everything else I wrote?

 

Yes I would think a woman is superficial for rejecting me solely based on my height, same as I would be superficial for rejecting a woman for having very small breasts. We can both call each other shallow.

[somedude81]

Sorry, forgot to respond to this. I don't think this is comparable, as a reasonably-sized penis is physiologically required, for many people at least, for the act of sex. I think the equivalent of a woman asking her micropenis bf to consider artificial methods of enlarging it, is a man asking a woman with an unusually small or unelastic hymen opening to get surgery to rectify it, because they cannot have vaginal-penile sex otherwise.

 

What would you think about a woman who loves sharp noses and gets absolutely turned on by them, and asks her bf to get surgery for that?

I don't think sharp noses works as that is not a defining male characteristic. I also wouldn't want her licking my nose and trying to stick it in places

 

A-cup is more like a 3 or 4 inch penis, AA would be comparable to micropenis--but the comparison is flawed because with micropenis you probably can't even procreate without a doctor helping, and that changes the entire relationship dynamic.

Eh, your making things more complicated than I intended.

 

Lets just say in the example, the guy is of a size where it's nowhere even close to enough for her. Better?

 

I used to think exactly as you do until I met my ex. Pretty sure you'd VERY quickly put it into better perspective if you met a "perfect" woman. It was always an issue for me, yea...but there are always issues in any relationship, you trade one set of issues for another when you go out with someone new, and it really did turn out to be far more minor than I guessed it'd be.

You may be completely right.

 

At this point I haven't been in a relationship and I don't know how my thoughts and feelings would change once I get into on. All my requirements could go flying out the door.

 

 

 

I'm a D cup, and wasn't lashing out.

 

My father is short. Mum dated taller men before she married him, and before she remarried him. He's the only one to ever get her down the aisle. He occasionally admits to feeling "less than", because he isn't some hulking guy, but he used to work out a lot and built up his muscle and strength. He picked me up just fine, when I was sixteen and he was playing.

Yeah it can happen, which is why I haven't given up hope.

 

Also, I tried to tell you, and others, last November, how much I can relate to your own situation, but in my own way, and you and those other men dismissed my feelings and what I was saying, all because I'm a woman, and because of your own assumptions. I had been in a good mood that night, until you guys kept doing that, and I ended up in tears.

I don't remember what happened back then.

 

November was a very hard month for me as that was when things between D and I went bad. I was basically crying everyday.

Edited January 26, 2012 by somedude81

[zengirl]

Re: Boobs

 

They don't actually have a whole lot of functionality in sex, unlike a penis, so the comparison isn't exactly apt. The comparison to height is probably much more apt.

 

I know a few men who prefer smaller boobs (A/B), in fact; not saying it's a majority, but some men dislike the look of larger boobs. Most men just like boobs, and they don't really sit around wishing the boobs they were looking at were any different than they are. Men whose brains have been oversaturated with porn might do that, but most men I know are just pretty happy to see boobs in general, especially if they're attached to a girl they think is sexy and beautiful and fun and awesome.

 

Just like that, I also know a few women (I was one of them!) who prefer shorter men. I didn't really date guys shorter than me, but I actively avoided tall guys, preferring guys around the 5'8''ish range. I just married a tall guy who's 6'2'', but on our first date, I was just looking at him and annoyed by how tall he was! Still, I got over it.

 

As to what men like, universally, I used to be REALLY thin in college and have A cup breasts, and I had no trouble attracting men -- of all sorts, including quite desirable men. Many A-list actresses have A cup breasts and make top beauty lists. I really don't think it's even a big deal in terms of turning guy's heads, nor do I think guys really can tell exact weights, dress sizes or cup sizes that well, to be honest. But YMMV.

 

Re: the point

 

At any rate, none of that is the POINT that Elswyth was trying to make. She was pointing out that Somedude cannot reasonably expect to attract women who do not operate with the same degree of superficiality he operates with (which is rather high, IMO, and expressed in immature ways---I think this is likely do to his inexperience in some ways, but it also reinforces his inexperience and failure, as Elswyth says) because women who do not operate with that degree of superficiality --- even if they're gorgeous, big-busted, thin, sexbombs don't want a guy who thinks such superficial things. And, no, you can't keep such attitudes hidden.

 

FTR, I'm a very thin girl with larger than A cup breasts at the moment, but I have no doubt my husband would love me if my breasts were smaller or I gained weight or whatever. He thinks I'm beautiful, but he doesn't see me as some combination of beauty components and he wouldn't dream of nitpicking or changing other facets of mine. And I feel the same -- if he loses his hair or gets a beer belly or grows a Mountain Man beard, I will still love him.

Edited January 26, 2012 by zengirl

[Meeks7]

I feel that if I want to be happy I'm going to have to fight the world and everybody is going to try and keep me down.

 

Brother, I used to think this exact same way, all throughout my mid teens to early 20's. Those were some of the dankest, most depressing and miserable years of my life. Thinking in that "the whole world is out to keep me down" mindset induced tremendous anxiety and self-doubts in me. As a result, my confidence was shot, and my dating life wasn't exactly thriving. No matter how much I tried to "mask" it I can tell you females just have a 6th sense. I would not be surprised if what you are going through now is similar to how I was back then.

 

One day I just threw my hands up in the air and said what the hell am I doing here. The world wasn't against me. It was my own way of thinking that was against me.

 

I then went on this "see the glass as half full" crusade, and eventually, my old ways of thinking slowly died out 1 by 1, until my confidence spiked and I started having a dating life.

 

What really gets me is that I've had nothing but negative experiences. Yeah I do learn from each one, but just once in my life I'd like things to actually go right. Then fate thinks it's funny to tease me every now and then, presenting me with what I desperately want, but not letting me have it.

 

Maybe instead of thinking the world is out to "get you" -- you should think maybe those 9 failed relationship attempts happened so that each one of those nine taught you something different to PREPARE YOU FOR THE 10th. And by the 10th, you will be ready for success.

 

Why, because we learn from mistakes.

 

Do you see how there is a subtle but critical difference in the way of thinking between the two?

 

Instead of woe is me, think the past girls didn't work out because it was only to prepare me for the right one.

 

Be hopeful!

[Anela]

 

Re: the point

 

At any rate, none of that is the POINT that Elswyth was trying to make. She was pointing out that Somedude cannot reasonably expect to attract women who do not operate with the same degree of superficiality he operates with (which is rather high, IMO, and expressed in immature ways---I think this is likely do to his inexperience in some ways, but it also reinforces his inexperience and failure, as Elswyth says) because women who do not operate with that degree of superficiality --- even if they're gorgeous, big-busted, thin, sexbombs don't want a guy who thinks such superficial things. And, no, you can't keep such attitudes hidden.

 

 

I get that. That's the way I've always felt, and that's what I was trying to communicate to him earlier.

[somedude81]

Re: Boobs

 

They don't actually have a whole lot of functionality in sex, unlike a penis, so the comparison isn't exactly apt. The comparison to height is probably much more apt.

I don't really know about that. Does a woman get sexually excited just by looking or thinking about a tall man?

 

While it's true that breasts don't have any real functionality in sex, they are a large part of my excitement. Just thinking about a woman with large breasts is enough to get me horny. My fascination with them borders on extreme and I've always been this way.

 

I know a few men who prefer smaller boobs (A/B), in fact; not saying it's a majority, but some men dislike the look of larger boobs. Most men just like boobs, and they don't really sit around wishing the boobs they were looking at were any different than they are.

I definitely agree with you. While a large number of men love big breasts many men prefer them to be smaller. What I've noticed is that those men tend to focus on the ass or thighs instead.

 

 

 

Men whose brains have been oversaturated with porn might do that, but most men I know are just pretty happy to see boobs in general, especially if they're attached to a girl they think is sexy and beautiful and fun and awesome.

I don't think porn has anything to do with it. I've liked large breasts for several years before I became aware of porn.

 

Though I do agree with you that breasts are even better when they are on an awesome girl. Which is another reason why I'm struggling with getting over D. She was totally cool and fun in so many ways and she was at least a D-cup, and no that's not why I call her "D"

Just like that, I also know a few women (I was one of them!) who prefer shorter men. I didn't really date guys shorter than me, but I actively avoided tall guys, preferring guys around the 5'8''ish range. I just married a tall guy who's 6'2'', but on our first date, I was just looking at him and annoyed by how tall he was! Still, I got over it.

I have never met a woman who preferred short guys. And 5'8 is only an inch shorter than average. ~5'9.5

 

The vast majority of women would prefer a guy above average than one who is below it.

 

As to what men like, universally, I used to be REALLY thin in college and have A cup breasts, and I had no trouble attracting men -- of all sorts, including quite desirable men. Many A-list actresses have A cup breasts and make top beauty lists. I really don't think it's even a big deal in terms of turning guy's heads, nor do I think guys really can tell exact weights, dress sizes or cup sizes that well, to be honest. But YMMV.

Yeah men's tastes do vary. But there's no denying that the big boobed woman is desired.

 

Re: the point

 

At any rate, none of that is the POINT that Elswyth was trying to make. She was pointing out that Somedude cannot reasonably expect to attract women who do not operate with the same degree of superficiality he operates with (which is rather high, IMO, and expressed in immature ways---I think this is likely do to his inexperience in some ways, but it also reinforces his inexperience and failure, as Elswyth says) because women who do not operate with that degree of superficiality --- even if they're gorgeous, big-busted, thin, sexbombs don't want a guy who thinks such superficial things. And, no, you can't keep such attitudes hidden.

OK, that's a little complicated for me to understand.

 

Are you saying that its superficial to be attracted to large busted women and that those women would not want a guy who's attracted to them?

 

No, that doesn't make any sense. I don't get your point.

FTR, I'm a very thin girl with larger than A cup breasts at the moment, but I have no doubt my husband would love me if my breasts were smaller or I gained weight or whatever. He thinks I'm beautiful, but he doesn't see me as some combination of beauty components and he wouldn't dream of nitpicking or changing other facets of mine. And I feel the same -- if he loses his hair or gets a beer belly or grows a Mountain Man beard, I will still love him.

That's great for both of you.

 

But as I pointed out, I've never been in a relationship. I have no idea what my views will be once that actually happens.

Edited January 26, 2012 by somedude81

[FitChick]

I have never met a woman who preferred short guys.

 

Because you've never met one, they don't exist? Gee, I wonder who all those humanoids are married to/dating short men? Alien hybrid life forms? Well, that would explain it.