What Are Realistic Expectations In Dating?

[Lonely Ronin]

Sorry, I'm a little confused.

 

You're saying that I have been going above my league?

 

So that I need to lower my standards even more? To what?

 

What do you mean because of my personality?

 

She is saying your personality is bad, and it's severely hurting what 'league' you could potentially play in.

[xpaperxcutx]

Sorry, I'm a little confused.

 

You're saying that I have been going above my league?

 

So that I need to lower my standards even more? To what?

 

What do you mean because of my personality?

 

Oh Somedude, relax. I was kidding. With your attitude and personality, any girl who is right for you will run away from your pessimism.

 

Also, how am I supposed to stay positive when I keep hearing that women always want to date pretty boys, when I know I am not one?

 

Do you have any idea how it feels to know that nobody wants you?

 

It was a hypothetical analysis, doesn't mean it can't be disproven. Honestly I have ****ty dating experiences, myself, and as much as I want to hate men, I can't.

[somedude81]

Oh Somedude, relax. I was kidding. With your attitude and personality, any girl who is right for you will run away from your pessimism.

The reason I get so upset is because I believe that my personality is the one thing I actually have going for me.

 

I know it's hard to believe, but I'm nowhere near as negative in real life. And the last thing I am when I'm with girls is pessimistic.

 

It was a hypothetical analysis, doesn't mean it can't be disproven. Honestly I have ****ty dating experiences, myself, and as much as I want to hate men, I can't.

I'm the same way.

 

I have much anger towards women but I still love them. All I basically want is somebody to take out the thorn.

[verhrzn]

Verhzn could crap on a waffle and you'd just eat it and ask for more!

 

Ewwww, that's just.... way too crude, haha. Nerd Girl don't play that way bro.

[iris219]

So happened to all those less attractive guys you went out with? If none of them were willing to give you a chance, you must have a really sh*tty personality...

 

They didn't reject me. They had major issues--alcoholism; crazy (one guy talked about his therapy sessions the entire date); not entirely single; loser/slacker (one guy showed up in board shorts with his dog); barely had a job (went out with a part time bartender); told me about the model hot chicks he banged on the first date.

 

The last guy I dated was actually very nice. We just didn't click, but we've remained friends.

[eerie_reverie]

As I have said before, you've got some serious self esteem problems and generally come off as even more insanely negative than sumdude.

 

It would take a special guy to take on all of your self-defeating beliefs and issues.

 

I'm not sure what "league" that puts you in, probably sumdude's (which explains you having dated guys like him).

[iris219]

So happened to all those less attractive guys you went out with? If none of them were willing to give you a chance, you must have a really sh*tty personality...

 

They didn't reject me. They would have continued to date me, but they had major issues--alcoholism; crazy (one guy talked about his therapy sessions the entire date); not entirely single; inconsiderate (one guy showed up in board shorts with his dog); barely had a job (went out with a part time bartender); told me about the model hot chicks he banged on the first date.

 

The last guy I dated was actually very nice. We just didn't click, but we've remained friends.

[Feelsgoodman]

So, again, it's her fault? It couldn't possibly be that the men she's met, have unrealistic standards, and overlooked her in favour of hotter women?

If it was one man, maybe. But ALL of them? Rather unlikely if you ask me. And in any event, those guys already went on a date with her, so presumably they were sufficiently attracted to her looks. I'm sticking with the crappy personality theory. So many women these days have such terrible attitudes...I think many of them don't even realize it.

[verhrzn]

As I have said before, you've got some serious self esteem problems and generally come off as even more insanely negative than sumdude.

 

It would take a special guy to take on all of your self-defeating beliefs and issues.

 

I'm not sure what "league" that puts you in, probably sumdude's (which explains you having dated guys like him).

 

But the question I always ask continues to pop up... what's the difference low self-esteem/being negative, and being realistic? If you look at yourself and go," X Y and Z are attractive qualities. I don't have X Y or Z, so I probably shouldn't go for people who DO have X Y and Z" isn't that being realistic?

 

Wouldn't it be worse to be a person who actually isn't that much of a catch, thinking she's amazing? We call that person delusional and say she needs to be more realistic about what she can attract.

 

Which is what I'm trying to do... find that line.

[Feelsgoodman]

They didn't reject me. They would have continued to date me, but they had major issues--alcoholism; crazy (one guy talked about his therapy sessions the entire date); not entirely single; inconsiderate (one guy showed up in board shorts with his dog); barely had a job (went out with a part time bartender); told me about the model hot chicks he banged on the first date.

 

The last guy I dated was actually very nice. We just didn't click, but we've remained friends.

LOL. In your previous post you said that you had very few deal breakers. All of a sudden you've got an entire list Some of them being really petty too (such as showing up in board shorts). And some of those supposedly "unattractive" men you went out with are banging model hot chicks. And then there is the "very nice" guy that you rejected for, well, being too nice. Am I supposed to feel sorry for you?

[iris219]

But the question I always ask continues to pop up... what's the difference low self-esteem/being negative, and being realistic? If you look at yourself and go," X Y and Z are attractive qualities. I don't have X Y or Z, so I probably shouldn't go for people who DO have X Y and Z" isn't that being realistic?

 

Wouldn't it be worse to be a person who actually isn't that much of a catch, thinking she's amazing? We call that person delusional and say she needs to be more realistic about what she can attract.

 

Which is what I'm trying to do... find that line.

 

I think you know where that line is.

 

I understand why you come off as negative--you're frustrated and rightfully so. It's hard to stay positive when you have nothing but bad experiences.

 

Few validate you when you explain how hard dating can be for women. Instead they tell you any fat, smelly woman can get a man, so you must have a crap personality. They tell me this too even though people in real life think I'm awesome and wonder why I'm single.

 

What you've done wrong in the past is put up with disrespectful treatment from men, and that's had a terrible impact on your self esteem. There is something wrong with them, not you. You need to set boundaries and maintain them. As soon as a guy shows any sign of being mean or rude, move on. You have to assert yourself. I think you probably feel powerless when it comes to men. Practice selective amnesia. Pretend your bad experiences didn't happen, or at least that they didn't have the impact they did. Positive people are able to readjust the past to match the present.

 

I think you seem you like a nice, smart, interesting girl.

[iris219]

But the question I always ask continues to pop up... what's the difference low self-esteem/being negative, and being realistic? If you look at yourself and go," X Y and Z are attractive qualities. I don't have X Y or Z, so I probably shouldn't go for people who DO have X Y and Z" isn't that being realistic?

 

Wouldn't it be worse to be a person who actually isn't that much of a catch, thinking she's amazing? We call that person delusional and say she needs to be more realistic about what she can attract.

 

Which is what I'm trying to do... find that line.

 

I think you know where that line is.

 

I understand why you come off as negative--you're frustrated and rightfully so. It's hard to stay positive when you have nothing but bad experiences.

 

Few validate you when you explain how hard dating can be for women. Instead they tell you any fat, smelly woman can get a man, so you must have a crap personality. They tell me this too even though people in real life think I'm awesome and wonder why I'm single.

 

What you've done wrong in the past is put up with disrespectful treatment from men, and that's had a terrible impact on your self esteem. There is something wrong with them, not you. You need to set boundaries and maintain them. As soon as a guy shows any sign of being mean or rude, move on. You have to assert yourself. I think you probably feel powerless when it comes to men. Practice selective amnesia. Pretend your bad experiences didn't happen, or at least that they didn't have the impact they did. Positive people are able to readjust the past to match the present.

 

I think you seem you like a nice, smart, interesting girl.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

...Realistic... In Dating

 

 

Realistic, in dating, is when you realize that m-m-m-m-m-m-m-MOST of what you're ever going to *get* from a mate will result FAR more from your own investments IN that mate, than it ever could for reasons independent of you and unique to that mate, his looks, his personality, or his bank account.

 

The percentages of two "realistic" people meeting, dating, and mating for the long haul are quite lofty, relatively speaking.

 

When they aren't pairing-off long term that is a near certain indication that one or both isn't realistic.

 

Mating long-term is much like a teeter-totter, where in a partner you mainly need somebody you can trust, and who you can anticipate (mostly for his her 'steady' nature). There will not be a photo shoot on said tetter-totter, so it doesn't matter so much how your partner looks when several feet off the ground on their end.

 

In video game analogies, mating long-term is like "Pong", that ancient game we played alone on our 'Atari' sets in the 1970's. You project your feelings, soul and 'life' toward something/someone on which you can truly depend and anticipate. Then, if your anticipation is keen, and if your partner is trustworthy, those projections you sent forward will carom off of that partner and right back toward you at an angle you'd been projecting/anticipating. This phenomenon is the backbone to the greatest 'satisfaction' you'll ever get from a relationship or a partner.

 

In ideal scenarios each partner is engaged in the same sort of 'projection' simultaneously, with each placing a high priority on merely being trustworthy and consistent (easy to read).

 

In this way it is your own outward projections of your own feelings and emotions toward a trusted target, which afford you most of the satisfaction you're going to get from the relationship.

 

Consider raw sex, if you will:

 

The truth is that your (heavenly, I know) partner does not 'give' you your greatest orgasms. Instead you choreograph a setting in which you each evolve to anticipate the other's body, and the other's motion, and then do what you can to have your own body placed ideally to draw the greatest physical/emotional sensation from your partner's motion and/or vulnerability.

 

At some point... each begins to drive toward his/her own orgasm relying largely on being able to anticipate the partner. (The shared vulnerability inherent in the process serves to enhance the bond between such partners).

 

It simply doesn't matter too much at that point whether the partner is a prince or a pauper.

 

(while it is surely great fun to F*** a 'hottie', it far exceeds that when one can witness the willing emotional and/or physical vulnerability of a partner who is honestly driving toward his/her own satisfaction without being particularly bashful about doing so) (maybe that in some ways explains the turn-on for some 'hotties' who are willing to share a bed with some of us, sexually)

 

"Realistic" is knowing that most of our satisfaction comes from within ourselves...

[Feelsgoodman]

But the question I always ask continues to pop up... what's the difference low self-esteem/being negative, and being realistic? If you look at yourself and go," X Y and Z are attractive qualities. I don't have X Y or Z, so I probably shouldn't go for people who DO have X Y and Z" isn't that being realistic?

If you are such a realist, just go and date guys who don't have X, Y and Z. But all you do is complain. I've never seen you post anything positive here. Your "woe is me" attitude is really grating...and guys pick up on that.

[iris219]

Who are you to be so uptight about their issues?

 

Every girl I've liked has had "issues". One of them had huge scars (and I mean, all the way across her belly and around her leg) on her body from years of self-mutilating in secret. Another girl I liked had her parents in mental institutions and she herself had a few little eccentricities.

 

Actually , come to think about it. Someone that goes to therapy, has "only" a part time job, or liked to drink would be laughable little quirks compared to flaws I'm open to accepting. Why? Because I've got my own flaws and wouldn't want to be written off by people like you for them.

 

Sorry for the double posts--not sure what's going on with my browser.*

 

Thanks, once again, for invalidating my experiences and paraphrasing my words completely inaccurately. I hope you're not this condescending in real life. You are talking to someone who will out up with everything but the most major issues.*

 

I'm a drinker. I don't mind drinkers. I don't even mind heavy drinkers. I mind a 40 year old man who admits to getting drunk every night and who prefaces a date with "I'm not going to remember any of this tomorrow," and proceeds to get falling down drunk.

 

I don't mind if someone sees a therapist. I mind when talking to a guy is like pulling teeth, until he gets on the topic of his therapy sessions, which he describes in great detail. Not appropriate for a first date.

 

I didn't mind that the guy was a part time bartender. I minded that he was 35 and had quit a good job in hopes of his band getting famous. I minded that he had no intentions of ever doing anything other than scraping by. I minded that he told me he had nothing to offer someone like me, that I was way to good for him, so we should just hook up (so essentially, he rejected me).

[iris219]

Who are you to be so uptight about their issues?

 

Every girl I've liked has had "issues". One of them had huge scars (and I mean, all the way across her belly and around her leg) on her body from years of self-mutilating in secret. Another girl I liked had her parents in mental institutions and she herself had a few little eccentricities.

 

Actually , come to think about it. Someone that goes to therapy, has "only" a part time job, or liked to drink would be laughable little quirks compared to flaws I'm open to accepting. Why? Because I've got my own flaws and wouldn't want to be written off by people like you for them.

 

Sorry for the double posts--not sure what's going on with my browser.

 

Thanks, once again, for invalidating my experiences and paraphrasing my words completely inaccurately. I hope you're not this condescending in real life. You are talking to someone who will out up with everything but the most major issues.

 

I'm a drinker. I don't mind drinkers. I don't even mind heavy drinkers. I mind a 40 year old man who admits to getting drunk every night and who prefaces a date with "I'm not going to remember any of this tomorrow," and proceeds to get falling down drunk.

 

I don't mind if someone sees a therapist. I mind when talking to a guy is like pulling teeth, until he gets on the topic of his therapy sessions, which he describes in great detail. Not appropriate for a first date.

 

I didn't mind that the guy was a part time bartender. I minded that he was 35 and had quit a good job in hopes of his band getting famous. I minded that he had no intentions of ever doing anything other than scraping by. I minded that he told me he had nothing to offer someone like me, that I was way to good for him, so we should just hook up (so essentially, he rejected me).

[xxoo]

Dating people should have high expectations for:

 

connection

great sex

a fully functional partner (no untreated mental illness, no addiction, no abuse, able to support him/herself, etc).

 

When the connection is there, the attraction follows. Weight, height, etc all matter a lot less at that point. Once you fall in love, their face and body become the face and body you want.

[Anela]

I think you know where that line is.

 

I understand why you come off as negative--you're frustrated and rightfully so. It's hard to stay positive when you have nothing but bad experiences.

 

Few validate you when you explain how hard dating can be for women. Instead they tell you any fat, smelly woman can get a man, so you must have a crap personality. They tell me this too even though people in real life think I'm awesome and wonder why I'm single.

 

What you've done wrong in the past is put up with disrespectful treatment from men, and that's had a terrible impact on your self esteem. There is something wrong with them, not you. You need to set boundaries and maintain them. As soon as a guy shows any sign of being mean or rude, move on. You have to assert yourself. I think you probably feel powerless when it comes to men. Practice selective amnesia. Pretend your bad experiences didn't happen, or at least that they didn't have the impact they did. Positive people are able to readjust the past to match the present.

 

I think you seem you like a nice, smart, interesting girl.

 

Agreed. thumbs-up to you.

[hydorclops]

Dating people should have high expectations for:

 

connection

great sex

a fully functional partner (no untreated mental illness, no addiction, no abuse, able to support him/herself, etc).

 

When the connection is there, the attraction follows. Weight, height, etc all matter a lot less at that point. Once you fall in love, their face and body become the face and body you want.

 

Yeah, yeah, Booorrring.

 

Now, what league am I in? What's my market value?

[xxoo]

[quote=Wolf18;3806716

XXOO

 

You know why I'm not attracted to thin men?

 

Because I've been head over heels crazy about a stocky man (including fat) for 20 years

 

I never was attracted to stocky guys before him. See what I mean?

[irc333]

You know when you're being UN-realistic when it comes to dating when you reach a certain age...let's say....35-40....single, never been married, no kids.....is when both your friends and family members are telling you you're being unrealistic.

 

Believe me, when you start hearing it from them, it's time to switch tactics.

[verhrzn]

I think you know where that line is.

 

I understand why you come off as negative--you're frustrated and rightfully so. It's hard to stay positive when you have nothing but bad experiences.

 

Few validate you when you explain how hard dating can be for women. Instead they tell you any fat, smelly woman can get a man, so you must have a crap personality. They tell me this too even though people in real life think I'm awesome and wonder why I'm single.

 

What you've done wrong in the past is put up with disrespectful treatment from men, and that's had a terrible impact on your self esteem. There is something wrong with them, not you. You need to set boundaries and maintain them. As soon as a guy shows any sign of being mean or rude, move on. You have to assert yourself. I think you probably feel powerless when it comes to men. Practice selective amnesia. Pretend your bad experiences didn't happen, or at least that they didn't have the impact they did. Positive people are able to readjust the past to match the present.

 

I think you seem you like a nice, smart, interesting girl.

 

Yeah you make some excellent points. Honestly, it's really reassuring to hear that you've had negative experiences as well. You've always come across in your posts are level-headed and intelligent, and knowing that there are other women in a similar situation to mine makes me feel less negative.

 

Sometimes I think posting on this site is also bad for me because I get caught up in other people's feed back loops.... I come here to lament a little about having negative experiences and I end up having to explain, defend and prove that I'm having negative experiences to begin with, which just reinforces my frustration.

 

Anyway, thanks for making me feel less alone and giving us girls with bad dating experiences a not-so-negative spokesperson.

[colliejoanie]

This sports analogy is played out. So is the idea of "market value" and all the other zero sum game nonsense.

 

Lovers, boyfriends, wives, husbands, girlfriends, and all these types of possible relationships are much more mundane in reality than you might think if you've never had one.

 

Think about common and simple friendship instead of sports or business. Simple friendship is much like a romantic relationship. Think how ordinary friendship is. Does your best friend need to be the best person possible? If you really like someone, are you settling somehow?

 

Disregard this idea if you want. But I assert that people skills, relationship skills, kindness, and empathy, as found in ordinary friendships, have more to do with romance than how you think you rate to the opposite sex.

 

I don't even want to read any more......this is perfect.

[Star Gazer]

Woman date above their league while men date below.

 

So perhaps this is why I'm single. On the whole, the single men in my appropriate age range are either my equals (few) or well below me (the majority).

[SJC2008]

Women date up because they can. If a woman is SLIGHTLY above average she will probably have been hit on at bars/clubs, put on a pedastal, thus blowing up her ego. We can't complain, us men "created the monster". I once read that the most successful relationships are when the woman is slightly better looking than the man, don't really know the science behind that one. In the same artilel, it said relationships where the woman pursued (though rare) had a higher fail rate. That one's obvious, if she's got the you know whats to go get her a man, all she has to do is get another one if she gets tired of her current. That being said people say you shouldn't "league" yourself but I say be realistic. I'm a decent looking guy and can get average to slightly above average girls, in person anyway, forget about it online lol!