What Are Realistic Expectations In Dating?

[Lonely Ronin]

As to men valuing attractiveness above all else---I do not believe that is the case, in terms of they want the most attractive girl at the detriment of other factors. They DO require a woman who is attractive to them, but many men would rather date a slightly less attractive girl who's also kind, smart, and compatible than a super attractive girl who's all wrong for them. Some would go for the hottest they could get, regardless of other factors, sure, but those are outliers, not the norm.

 

It is shocking though, how so many people (mainly younger) believe this to be the truth.

[verhrzn]

Seriously? That is some EXTREME superficiality. I know you're in So Cal and all, but that's hardcore. Geez. Anywho, back to the subject at hand. . .

 

Agreed. I find it rather bizarre that you actually use that evidence that you DON'T have unrealistic expectations. In what universe is it okay to ask someone to get cosmetic surgery to suit your tastes?

 

 

As to men valuing attractiveness above all else---I do not believe that is the case, in terms of they want the most attractive girl at the detriment of other factors. They DO require a woman who is attractive to them, but many men would rather date a slightly less attractive girl who's also kind, smart, and compatible than a super attractive girl who's all wrong for them. Some would go for the hottest they could get, regardless of other factors, sure, but those are outliers, not the norm.

 

I don't think it's "men valuing attractiveness over all"... I think it's more men put more WEIGHT on attractiveness. So, if Girl A is 100% his physical ideal but only 50% his emotional/intellectual ideal, and Girl B is 50% his physical ideal but 100% his emotional/intellectual, I think a lot of guys (I'd estimate 70%) would go for Girl A.

 

By going for Girl A, they're not signifying that they prefer looks over everything... just that if they have to lose out on something, they'd rather lose out on the intellectual component.

 

In other words, in competing with attractive women, my only pray would be that they have the personality of a troll. If a hot woman also has a nice (or even fantastic) personality, well, obviously I'm going to lose out. My exes didn't dump me for girls who were just hotter... they dumped me for girls who were hotter than me physically AND my equal in personality.

[xxoo]

In other words, in competing with attractive women, my only pray would be that they have the personality of a troll. If a hot woman also has a nice (or even fantastic) personality, well, obviously I'm going to lose out. My exes didn't dump me for girls who were just hotter... they dumped me for girls who were hotter than me physically AND my equal in personality.

 

Stop competing and comparing. Just be irresistibly YOU.

 

There will always be someone hotter, prettier, thinner, curvier, younger, etc. It doesn't matter! There is only one YOU. When a man loves you, no other woman's appearance will factor in.

 

Believe that you are worthy of that kind of love.

[somedude81]

No it doesn't seem that extreme to me.

 

And as I said before, the odds of me being in a serious relationship with a woman who has very small breasts are very low. It would most likely never happen.

[EnigmaticClarity]

No it doesn't seem that extreme to me.

 

And as I said before, the odds of me being in a serious relationship with a woman who has very small breasts are very low. It would most likely never happen.

 

Last stats I saw were that about 15% of women are A, and 10% are D or bigger (naturally, not due to pregnancy or obesity). So your odds of better of getting with very small than very large--unless, of course, you specifically discount them, which is what I'm thinking you're likely to be thinking.

 

My current girlfriend is D, last was A. I'd never suggest an augmentation as the odds of her remembering it forever as her not being adequate for my tastes is too high. Last girlfriend actually asked me about it at one point--I told her I'd be fine with it and she should do whatever made her feel best. That was actually the truth...I'm not a fan of the implants I've seen, the shape becomes unnatural, and I'm assuming the feel does as well, although that part I can't speak for as I've never touched implants.

Edited January 24, 2012 by EnigmaticClarity

[somedude81]

I found this

 

AA cup: 2%;

A cup: 15%;

B cup: 44%;

C cup: 28%;

D cup: 10%;

DD cup: 1%

 

Not sure how accurate it is but it seems correct. Though most other articles I'm finding are saying that the average size is now 36C.

 

Basically 83% of women are a B or larger. And obviously I'm not the kind of guy who is going to actively seek out the smaller women.

[EnigmaticClarity]

'd never suggest an augmentation as the odds of her remembering it forever as her not being adequate for my tastes is too high.

 

Actually, to broaden that--I'd never mention anything to any woman I was in a relationship that they couldn't change. I group things they can't change without surgery in with that. My ex's A-cups were a slight turn-off...but never did she hear it from me. Telling people about their faults they don't have control over is dickish and cruel.

[EnigmaticClarity]

I found this

 

AA cup: 2%;

A cup: 15%;

B cup: 44%;

C cup: 28%;

D cup: 10%;

DD cup: 1%

 

Not sure how accurate it is but it seems correct. Though most other articles I'm finding are saying that the average size is now 36C.

 

Basically 83% of women are a B or larger. And obviously I'm not the kind of guy who is going to actively seek out the smaller women.

 

That's the exact survey I was quoting from. I've also seen the average as being C, but I think that's entirely due to obesity and that the original figures are natural. I can certainly say that if you count obesity, FAR more than 10% are D or bigger--it's far closer to 25%, easy to see just by noting the people you pass in social situations.

[somedude81]

Oh no, I'm definitely not counting obesity. In that case, the size doesn't count, heh.

 

Then yes, the new C average probably does include overweight women.

[SteveC80]

I think womens breast size is much bigger then those stats

 

Theyres a lot more natural dd's then 1% that ive seen

[Els]

As if any of that stuff would make her like me.

 

Those are things that a good boyfriend would do. Not something that two people who were not dating or not very good friends would do. Frankly, even if I tried, she wouldn't have let me do things like that. Heck, she wouldn't even let me buy her ice-cream. But if we were dating, or had something like that going on, damn right I would have done them.

 

I agree that those things may not necessarily appeal to all women, and may not bring you romantic success with a majority of them. They are things (or similar things, at least) that the bf did for me before we became bf/gf though, and they hugely increased my attraction for him (although it was already pretty high even without all that). Nowhere did I say I was in the majority of women, also. All I have said is that you do not fit the sort of guy that I am talking about. That is not necessarily a bad thing, for the nth time.

 

 

Heh, the posts I made in that thread.

 

The basic context was, if I was in a serious relationship with a woman who was an A-cup or smaller, I would talk to her about getting implants.

 

Realistically though, the odds of me even being in that situation are extremely low.

 

You don't seem to understand that the odds don't matter. It's the intention and mindset that counts where superficiality are concerned.

 

 

 

Seriously? That is some EXTREME superficiality. I know you're in So Cal and all, but that's hardcore. Geez. Anywho, back to the subject at hand. . .

 

 

 

Yes, men like pretty girls. Plenty of men would think the OP was pretty! (Men on LS have said this since she joined!)

 

I mean, she may be losing a guy out here or there to a slightly more attractive girl, but in an average setting, she's well above the curve. I seriously doubt her looks are truly the problem. Sure, it's not good to always go after the SINGLE most desirable guy, especially if that doesn't seem to be panning out, but I don't think that's really her issue either.

 

As to men valuing attractiveness above all else---I do not believe that is the case, in terms of they want the most attractive girl at the detriment of other factors. They DO require a woman who is attractive to them, but many men would rather date a slightly less attractive girl who's also kind, smart, and compatible than a super attractive girl who's all wrong for them. Some would go for the hottest they could get, regardless of other factors, sure, but those are outliers, not the norm.

 

Yep, agreed with all this. I do think that the bolded could possibly be pervasive in some communities or places (college, for instance, perhaps), but that doesn't really matter - I don't think those are the sort of guys that any self-respecting woman would want anyway.

 

Agreed. I find it rather bizarre that you actually use that evidence that you DON'T have unrealistic expectations. In what universe is it okay to ask someone to get cosmetic surgery to suit your tastes?

 

No it doesn't seem that extreme to me.

 

 

Well, that is your opinion. The 4 women who posted on this thread - all of us the sort of women who don't mind a 5'5" guy who is a college student at 30 and have tried to genuinely help you in the past - have unanimously agreed that it is extremely superficial. What does that say to you? It's all well and good to be superficial, but if you're looking for an un-superficial woman while being superficial yourself, you're going to have a pretty hard time.

 

With regards to my bf, you may assume what you like, but the fact is also that his ex, whom he was with for 7 years, -was- also the girly-girl model variety, and a polar opposite from me in appearance. The bf has also stuck with me through times when I hadn't slept for weeks and looked like crap, times when I was covered from neck to toe in rashes, and 15 lbs of weight gain, long and short hair. When the time came to do 2 years of LD, he was the one who said that it would be 'no problem', that it would be more than worth the wait (well, the 'no problem' part definitely ended up untrue, but we did make it!). All of these point to a man who values other things far more than the physical (again, there is never a guarantee in life, but believe me, it is difficult to hide that sort of thing for 4 years. If you intend to try to hide it with your next gf, I bet you you will slip up in a few months tops). And that is the sort of man whom I think actually deserves a girl who does not care about height, muscle, appearance, money, career or cars (he does have a very good career now, but was a student when we met).

 

Do you think that you deserve that sort of girl, with your own superficial requirements for them?

Edited January 25, 2012 by Elswyth

[somedude81]

I agree that those things may not necessarily appeal to all women, and may not bring you romantic success with a majority of them. They are things (or similar things, at least) that the bf did for me before we became bf/gf though, and they hugely increased my attraction for him (although it was already pretty high even without all that). Nowhere did I say I was in the majority of women, also. All I have said is that you do not fit the sort of guy that I am talking about. That is not necessarily a bad thing, for the nth time.

What's annoying me is that you are assuming I'm not the kind of guy who would do stuff like that.

 

I would have loved to do those things for D, but in the unspoken terms of our "relationship" I was simply not allowed. She wanted to maintain a certain level of distance, which I was always trying to push. Which most likely led to her getting mad at me and ending our friendship. She recognized that I was trying to do boyfriendish things and would have none of it.

You don't seem to understand that the odds don't matter. It's the intention and mindset that counts where superficiality are concerned.

No, I don't understand.

 

Can we just leave it at that?

 

Well, that is your opinion. The 4 women who posted on this thread - all of us the sort of women who don't mind a 5'5" guy who is a college student at 30 and have tried to genuinely help you in the past - have unanimously agreed that it is extremely superficial. What does that say to you? It's all well and good to be superficial, but if you're looking for an un-superficial woman while being superficial yourself, you're going to have a pretty hard time.

All I've been saying is that I want an average girl. You're making it sound like I have some ridiculous requirement.

 

And because I'm unfortunate enough to be short, I'm not allowed to have any preferences whatsoever.

 

Sorry, just like how I didn't choose to be short, I didn't choose to attracted to thin women with long hair and full breasts. What do you expect me to do?

 

 

but believe me, it is difficult to hide that sort of thing for 4 years. If you intend to try to hide it with your next gf,

And what exactly would I be hiding?

 

 

I bet you you will slip up in a few months tops). And that is the sort of man whom I think actually deserves a girl who does not care about height, muscle, appearance, money, career or cars (he does have a very good career now, but was a student when we met).

BTW, I have muscle, don't look bad, have a decent car, my own place, and am on the path to have a great career. The only thing I don't have is height. Which is basically the only thing I don't have control over.

 

Do you think that you deserve that sort of girl, with your own superficial requirements for them?

I think I deserve a girl who is close to my equal and who has healthy expectations while being able to overlook some minor flaws. And I would do the same.

[Els]

I'm not saying that doing any of that would have increased your chances with D. I did make it clear that I thought D was going nowhere.

 

'Hiding' - you seem to be implying that my bf is actually as superficial as you are but is simply hiding it from me. My point is that I'm fairly observant and it's difficult to hide such a thing for so long.

 

Superficiality is not linked to odds or 'ridiculous requirements' or whether or not the girl is 'your equal in terms of looks'. Superficiality is linked to the level of priority one places on superficial things such as appearance, height, weight, money, etc. Evidently your priority is high, as most men, believe it or not, would not even CONSIDER trying to convince their gf about undergoing breast surgery. To me, that displays a gross lack of concern as to her health and safety, and places your physical preferences over that. Other women may differ, but as I have said, the 4 women here have agreed with me.

 

If you still don't understand, I'm fine with leaving it at that. The conversation cannot continue without tackling that point, though, as it really is a crucial part of the entire debate. :/

Edited January 25, 2012 by Elswyth

[FitChick]

I think quietGuy13 and verhrzn are made for each other.

[somedude81]

I'm not saying that doing any of that would have increased your chances with D. I did make it clear that I thought D was going nowhere.

I agree with you there.

 

But as I said earlier, I'm annoyed that you assumed I'm not the gentlemanly type.

 

 

'Hiding' - you seem to be implying that my bf is actually as superficial as you are but is simply hiding it from me. My point is that I'm fairly observant and it's difficult to hide such a thing for so long.

No, I was implying that your BF could be superficial, but that you are his type so that it never comes out.

 

For me, hiding superficiality would be lying to a GF that I think is unattractive, that I don't care about her appearance.

 

I want to be able to honestly tell a girl I'm dating that I think she's beautiful, has an amazing body, a really cool personality, fun to be with etc.

 

When your BF calls you pretty or compliments your looks do you think he's being superficial?

 

 

Superficiality is not linked to odds or 'ridiculous requirements' or whether or not the girl is 'your equal in terms of looks'. Superficiality is linked to the level of priority one places on superficial things such as appearance, height, weight, money, etc. Evidently your priority is high, as most men, believe it or not, would not even CONSIDER trying to convince their gf about undergoing breast surgery. To me, that displays a gross lack of concern as to her health and safety, and places your physical preferences over that. Other women may differ, but as I have said, the 4 women here have agreed with me.

 

If you still don't understand, I'm fine with leaving it at that. The conversation cannot continue without tackling that point, though, as it really is a crucial part of the entire debate. :/

I really don't see a point in continuing the whole implant discussion because I recognize that I will most likely never be in that situation. There is no point in arguing over what if's.

 

I understand that most women think it's a horrible idea for a man to suggest any physical change about a woman and therefore, it would simply be best if I avoided a relationship with women that I feel would need changing.

[Els]

The implant discussion is integral, as I said, because that was the greatest demonstration of a superficial mindset on your part. Put it this way, if a girl said that if she had a 5'4" bf (that I think you are), she would try to convince him to get height extension surgery, and that's perfectly okay because the average American guy is 5'7"... would you call her superficial?

[Phateless]

Call me superficial but I don't think I would date a girl with fake boobs. They gross me out and to me indicate such a superficial personality type that I'm just too weirded out.

 

I would much rather date a natural A than a fake D. Natural boobs ftw!

[counterman]

 

I don't think it's "men valuing attractiveness over all"... I think it's more men put more WEIGHT on attractiveness. So, if Girl A is 100% his physical ideal but only 50% his emotional/intellectual ideal, and Girl B is 50% his physical ideal but 100% his emotional/intellectual, I think a lot of guys (I'd estimate 70%) would go for Girl A.

 

By going for Girl A, they're not signifying that they prefer looks over everything... just that if they have to lose out on something, they'd rather lose out on the intellectual component.

 

In other words, in competing with attractive women, my only pray would be that they have the personality of a troll. If a hot woman also has a nice (or even fantastic) personality, well, obviously I'm going to lose out. My exes didn't dump me for girls who were just hotter... they dumped me for girls who were hotter than me physically AND my equal in personality.

 

The only girls I approach/date are ones I'm attracted to physically. So, there are plenty of other girls who are definitely more 'attractive' and sought after than the girls I approach but that's inconsequential to me, and I certainly hope those girls that I do make conversation with don't think they'll lose out to 'hotter' girls. So, really, out of all the girls I'm attracted to, there's nothing that separates them but their personalities.

 

I'm put more weight on physical attractiveness after I approached some girls that I was half-hearted about from first appearances; they were so-so in terms of attractiveness. What happened was they showed an insecure side to them and lack of confidence when they were wary of why I even came to talk to them in the first place as oppose to the other beautiful girls in the room. Some even called me a 'player'. From my experience, I've had few girls, who I considered dating who I found less attractive, who could hold their own with me when we conversed. There are exceptions though. This one girl who I share a few classes with. I wasn't attracted to her at all physically but she is intelligent. She's extremely confident and rarely self-conscious. She's able to discuss about various topics. In the end, I did feel something for her but I just couldn't look past her physical appearance.

 

My point is try not to think of it as losing out to other girls or even competing against other girls. There will always be a girls prettier/hotter than you BUT there will always be girls who are worse off. Hey, at least you've had some experience. Some people go through life without. If a guy thinks he's better off with a hotter girl, screw him. Often times you can't equate personalities. Sure there are similar traits but we are all unique in our own way. It's what defines you. Perhaps those guys who left you for a more attractive girl may not have been that compatible with you. Or perhaps not. The only thing you can do is be the best that you can be. We all have things that could be a better in our lives and I dare say a lot of those things we can fix ourselves and make it better.

[zengirl]

I think if there is a big difference in attractiveness, most men would go for the more attractive one, unless the more attractive one had the personality of an ogre.

 

Depends on the gap in difference, sure. But I think women (at least women in my generation) would feel the same with a large difference in attractiveness as well. I know I wouldn't date someone who was unattractive to me simply because we had a lot in common. Seems like a recipe for disaster.

 

Also, "attractiveness" is always to some degree a relative term, unless we're talking the most beautiful or least beautiful people. Particularly in America. I have lived in countries, as mentioned above, like Korea and Japan where you can basically define "beauty." They prefer very specific features and have very similar looks overall --- they're much more homogeneous racially and appearance wise. I think it's much harder to do so in the U.S. For instance, I consider myself beautiful and have had no trouble finding experiences that reinforce that, but in looking at the laundry list the OP has posted elsewhere, except for being thin and in shape, I'm not sure I have many of them. And, to men who prefer tanned, long-legged California blondes or sexy, curvy Latinas, I'm probably not as pretty as I am to the men who dig girls who look like me (I'm a slim, fresh-faced half-Japanese gal).

 

I do think personality, intelligence, humor, etc., can make up for any discrepancy in appearance, if it's not a large discrepancy, and certainly the OP is attractive enough to make up for this using her personality and other strengths. I think expecting men to think you are more attractive than all other women based on looks alone is an unrealistic expectation, and the OP would be wise to discard that and use her strengths to her advantage instead. Some men will think she's plenty attractive enough, but there will always be women who are more attractive, and there will always be men who are drawn to that.

 

I don't deny there are "comparers" who seek the prettiest woman (or hottest/richest man or whatever) they can get; what I deny is that the average man does this. It's not most guys---it's a subset of men (and women) who are not dateable for any number of reasons, include their attitude towards this.

 

She just has to seek out those types that value a wide variety of things and use her best assets to her advantage, and show off those best assets to men who will appreciate them. So far, the men she has been with have been pretty shallow.

 

Sounds like it. And I'm sure the OP is attracting them because of her own attitude about herself.

 

I don't think it's "men valuing attractiveness over all"... I think it's more men put more WEIGHT on attractiveness. So, if Girl A is 100% his physical ideal but only 50% his emotional/intellectual ideal, and Girl B is 50% his physical ideal but 100% his emotional/intellectual, I think a lot of guys (I'd estimate 70%) would go for Girl A.

 

IME, men don't analyze relationships this way unless they are either REALLY unsuccessful at dating or looking for outs. Men who are looking for real relationships are poor analysts of love, really. Women do that stuff. Men. . . they want to be hit over the head with it, they're much more romantic than given credit for in most cases (the ones who really are BF material), and they don't sit around comparing women to scoresheets. Not when they actually dig a woman. Men fall in love much more quickly than women in many cases.

 

I will say I think men are slightly more DRAWN to beauty (whatever there idea of beauty is) and certainly they are less able to FORCE themselves into a relationship with someone they're not instinctively drawn towards than many women will do, based on their analysis. Usually if a man sits down to analyze these things, it means he's not in love with the woman and is finding the door. When a man has a true connection to a woman, the last thing he wants to do is analyze it! YMMV.

 

Superficiality is not linked to odds or 'ridiculous requirements' or whether or not the girl is 'your equal in terms of looks'. Superficiality is linked to the level of priority one places on superficial things such as appearance, height, weight, money, etc. Evidently your priority is high, as most men, believe it or not, would not even CONSIDER trying to convince their gf about undergoing breast surgery.

 

Right. That's an extreme level of superficiality and the likelihood of dating someone with whom you'd have to bring it up has NOTHING to do with how superficial it is.

[Els]

I think quietGuy13 and verhrzn are made for each other.

 

Uh... no. If we absolutely must talk in such horrific terms, quietguy13 is as much out of verh's 'league' as verh is out of Brad Pitt's.

[Els]

The only girls I approach/date are ones I'm attracted to physically. So, there are plenty of other girls who are definitely more 'attractive' and sought after than the girls I approach but that's inconsequential to me, and I certainly hope those girls that I do make conversation with don't think they'll lose out to 'hotter' girls. So, really, out of all the girls I'm attracted to, there's nothing that separates them but their personalities.

 

I'm put more weight on physical attractiveness after I approached some girls that I was half-hearted about from first appearances; they were so-so in terms of attractiveness. What happened was they showed an insecure side to them and lack of confidence when they were wary of why I even came to talk to them in the first place as oppose to the other beautiful girls in the room. Some even called me a 'player'. From my experience, I've had few girls, who I considered dating who I found less attractive, who could hold their own with me when we conversed. There are exceptions though. This one girl who I share a few classes with. I wasn't attracted to her at all physically but she is intelligent. She's extremely confident and rarely self-conscious. She's able to discuss about various topics. In the end, I did feel something for her but I just couldn't look past her physical appearance.

 

My point is try not to think of it as losing out to other girls or even competing against other girls. There will always be a girls prettier/hotter than you BUT there will always be girls who are worse off. Hey, at least you've had some experience. Some people go through life without. If a guy thinks he's better off with a hotter girl, screw him. Often times you can't equate personalities. Sure there are similar traits but we are all unique in our own way. It's what defines you. Perhaps those guys who left you for a more attractive girl may not have been that compatible with you. Or perhaps not. The only thing you can do is be the best that you can be. We all have things that could be a better in our lives and I dare say a lot of those things we can fix ourselves and make it better.

 

This is a fairly normal and reasonable way of looking at things, IMO. I think a common mistake made in approaching superficiality is that people look at it as 1) necessarily a bad thing, and 2) a black/white thing. The fact is that there are degrees of superficiality - wanting a girl with small breasts to undergo surgery is extreme IMO, but not dating a guy/girl who is very obese is much less so. Also, it isn't necessarily a bad thing to be superficial - the girls who have rejected nice, intelligent guys based on superficial criteria have every right to do so, and the guys who have rejected nice, intelligent girls based on superficial criteria have equally as much right to do so. However, one should be mindful and accepting of the consequences of such, and not expect lack of superficiality in one's partner when one cannot offer the same.

[EnigmaticClarity]

The implant discussion is integral, as I said, because that was the greatest demonstration of a superficial mindset on your part. Put it this way, if a girl said that if she had a 5'4" bf (that I think you are), she would try to convince him to get height extension surgery, and that's perfectly okay because the average American guy is 5'7"... would you call her superficial?

 

Height extension surgery is very invasive and expensive, and the risk of decreased mobility is significant--perhaps even unavoidable, not sure you can play sports after having that done. I've only ever seen it done to people around 4' and under, and even then it seemed more risk than reward. A better analogy is whether or not a guy who would ask a woman to get implants would consider penis lengthening for himself, which carries minor risk and takes quite a bit of patience and a long duration of treatment, yet from what I've heard tends to yield modest (1" to 2") results.

 

Both procedures carry a somewhat unknown long-term risk. In the 1970s and 1980s, doctors didn't understand the risks of silicon, but now they're understood. But are there other risks even with saline and simply the presence of a foreign object in the body, perhaps an increased risk of cancer in the surrounding tissue? Difficult to measure until we've had another 50 to 100 years of experience with them. Same goes for the "traction" method that is the only one I've consistently heard works for guys--I'm skeptical it doesn't carry long-term risks. Certain tribes have been doing that for hundreds or thousands of years, but eh, they don't tend to live that long, either, wouldn't be surprised if it cause an increased risk of problems once you hit 60, 70, 80, etc.

Edited January 25, 2012 by EnigmaticClarity

[Els]

The greatest risk with breast surgery, besides long-term complications, is that you need to undergo general anaesthesia for it to be performed, and it is considered major and invasive surgery. Not sure penis-lengthening surgery is the same, and not inclined to read medical papers on it at this time, but if it is, sure, we can substitute that in.

[EnigmaticClarity]

The greatest risk with breast surgery, besides long-term complications, is that you need to undergo general anaesthesia for it to be performed, and it is considered major and invasive surgery. Not sure penis-lengthening surgery is the same, and not inclined to read medical papers on it at this time, but if it is, sure, we can substitute that in.

 

I think surgery is only for extremely short, so short it's useless for sex, to take something like less than 2" and make it somewhat more usable. The risk of ED is great, and a percentage of the people who have that surgery have to also get implants to get erections. Over half of a penis is inside the body--most of the length and shower/grower difference is a genetic roll of the dice that determines how much is inside the body and how much is outside, with some ethnic groups (particularly Africans) having less inside and more outside--and they cut some tissue to bring a few inches of what's inside to the outside, but the procedure sometimes impacts function.

 

I was thinking of traction--it takes months, perhaps a year or more. Wikipedia and other sources claims it's the only procedure that usually produces results yet carries the least risk. I haven't researched it to determine the medical community's opinion of it.

[zengirl]

I think there's something pathologically and absurdly superficial about trying to "improve" a person. You are basically not even seeing that person as a person, but as a collection of traits. "Oh, I like THESE features, but change these." People are not dolls.

 

I don't see anything wrong with saying that you're more attracted to any particular type of person -- some things may seem more nitpicky than others overall, and some may be downright universal --- though it is, as Elswyth says, still superficial. To SOME degree, everyone is superficial, probably.

 

But to actually get the notion that you would suggest someone surgically alter themselves, and that such a thing would be at all in the realm of OKAY, that's living in the land of the superficial, regardless of the surgery or its dangers. It's not about the potential complications. Even if my hubby were to tell me to wear more makeup or cut my hair a specific way, I'd be offended---and not because it's dangerous or whatnot, but because it's. . . absurd to try to pick and poke at someone's appearance that way. (Not the same as stating preferences---I don't mind if my hubby says he likes a particular dress or does prefer my hair in a particular style I wear as opposed to others or if we're going to an event and he thinks something would be more appropriate. But attempting to change another person's appearance is just kinda gross.)