2sunny Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) I think the poop analogy is perfect. OP has a wife that keeps bringing in the poop... Instead of demanding there be no more poop in the house - he keeps inviting the poop back into the house - with the IDEA that maybe its not poop - he's so hopeful the poop has become chocolate that he believes it's chocolate. The poop will never be chocolate... You've been sitting (sleeping with) in the poop so long it now feels warm and squishy. That's the problem - its comfortable for you... Because you have guilt and shame that trick you into "thinking his is all you deserve" - which is delusional. When you realize what a big poop she actually is - THAT is when YOU may keep the poop away from YOUR daily life. Your POOP has been growing bigger - the poop is spending time and energy trying to find new ways to communicate with her other poop. Two poops growing poop bigger = one big mess of poop! But you are unwilling to "see that it's poop" - you still think the poop is love - or "might be love"! It is NOT love - it IS POOP! Throw out the poop so the house stops being so stinky! Get some FRESH air in there! THAT is when you will see just how much that poop was stinking up the whole place! OMG I'm laughing out loud while I re read this - but there really isn't anything funny about it! Edited February 17, 2012 by 2sunny 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author c0nfuzd Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 I think the poop analogy is perfect. OP has a wife that keeps bringing in the poop... Instead of demanding there be no more poop in the house - he keeps inviting the poop back into the house - with the IDEA that maybe its not poop - he's so hopeful the poop has become chocolate that he believes it's chocolate. The poop will never be chocolate... You've been sitting (sleeping with) in the poop so long it now feels warm and squishy. That's the problem - its comfortable for you... Because you have guilt and shame that trick you into "thinking his is all you deserve" - which is delusional. When you realize what a big poop she actually is - THAT is when YOU may keep the poop away from YOUR daily life. Your POOP has been growing bigger - the poop is spending time and energy trying to find new ways to communicate with her other poop. Two poops growing poop bigger = one big mess of poop! But you are unwilling to "see that it's poop" - you still think the poop is love - or "might be love"! It is NOT love - it IS POOP! Throw out the poop so the house stops being so stinky! Get some FRESH air in there! THAT is when you will see just how much that poop was stinking up the whole place! OMG I'm laughing out loud while I re read this - but there really isn't anything funny about it! so am I 2sunny....at least I can still smile Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 When you make sure - with that boundary intact - that the poop stays away from your daily life - things in YOUR life will stop smelling (looking) so awful and stinky. But as long as you ALLOW the poop around - it will look $hitty. She is the $hit - she just intends to throw her $hitty self on you - and pretend you are her $hit- which you're not - but as long as YOU are close by she WILL blame you for the stench SHE'S creating. She's stinky... Stop allowing her to blame you. Link to post Share on other sites
Author c0nfuzd Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 UPDATE: we went out to a restaurant just the 2 of us (first time since D-day) and initially it was to talk about our issues...by the time we got there, we agreed not to bring them upand we had a good time...it was a nice upscale restaurant and the food was exquisite; the ambience was romantic with instrumental-only melodies in the background; at times she would get quiet and peer me over inquisitively...what could she be thinking? was she reminiscing her moments with OM? was she trying to picture us again 2gether? it was hard to decipher....all the while I would tell her how beautiful she is and just how much I love her; she says that we should do this more often, like once a month to see if it restores our marriage..............but by the time we got back to the car, she had sunk in a depression; was it because of the way I treated her all these years or was she missing him?............it has been 2 days now and I have decided to finally put to rest my constant bickering with her over the A...tension has decreased between us but deeep down I am still not 100% sure it is over between them 2...I have to accept her truth and that's not easy knowing how she played me for over a year; the keylogger is of course very quiet.....................I am still resolved to making this work; I've postponed my decision to D; as long as her A is over, I am ok waiting for her to "fix herself" and then give us a go; I've told her that she can have him all she wants, just to tell me so I can leave...I don't want to be strung along Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 UPDATE: we went out to a restaurant just the 2 of us (first time since D-day) and initially it was to talk about our issues...by the time we got there, we agreed not to bring them upand we had a good time...it was a nice upscale restaurant and the food was exquisite; the ambience was romantic with instrumental-only melodies in the background; at times she would get quiet and peer me over inquisitively...what could she be thinking? was she reminiscing her moments with OM? was she trying to picture us again 2gether? it was hard to decipher....all the while I would tell her how beautiful she is and just how much I love her; she says that we should do this more often, like once a month to see if it restores our marriage..............but by the time we got back to the car, she had sunk in a depression; was it because of the way I treated her all these years or was she missing him?............it has been 2 days now and I have decided to finally put to rest my constant bickering with her over the A...tension has decreased between us but deeep down I am still not 100% sure it is over between them 2...I have to accept her truth and that's not easy knowing how she played me for over a year; the keylogger is of course very quiet.....................I am still resolved to making this work; I've postponed my decision to D; as long as her A is over, I am ok waiting for her to "fix herself" and then give us a go; I've told her that she can have him all she wants, just to tell me so I can leave...I don't want to be strung along You are contradicting yourself... You say you don't know IF the A is over - but then you say you will keep trying as long as you know it's over. It's a yes or no question to her = has the affair completely ended? IF she won't answer with yes or no directly - its still continuing. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 What could she be thinking? She's thinking she's serving you up a bigger pile of poop and you seem so happy to see that poop as a gift! Link to post Share on other sites
2long Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 If she still works with the OM then it's not over. If she hasn't come 2 you offering 2 do whatever you need her 2 do 2 convince you that she wants 2 repair your marriage after all the damage she's done 2 it, then you know she's not over the affair and is not interested in recovery. You are entering dangerous territory now. Believe me, I know what this is. You are accepting crumbs, which are all she can give you at this time. At some point starting really soon (if you do nothing but "give her time"), you will both become complacent - you will accept that this is "as good as it gets" and she will realize that she doesn't have 2 do anything, except placate you. Then, at some point downrange, likely in many months or even a few years, you'll realize that you don't have a marriage because neither of you has done anything 2 make one (the old one is dead, remember?), and all it will take for you 2 simply up and leave at that point is a small infraction on her part. You'll realize that the tie between you has come undone and you won't care 2 mend it. -ol' 2long 2 Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 UPDATE: we went out to a restaurant just the 2 of us (first time since D-day) and initially it was to talk about our issues...by the time we got there, we agreed not to bring them upand we had a good time...it was a nice upscale restaurant and the food was exquisite; the ambience was romantic with instrumental-only melodies in the background; at times she would get quiet and peer me over inquisitively...what could she be thinking? was she reminiscing her moments with OM? was she trying to picture us again 2gether? it was hard to decipher....all the while I would tell her how beautiful she is and just how much I love her; she says that we should do this more often, like once a month to see if it restores our marriage..............but by the time we got back to the car, she had sunk in a depression; was it because of the way I treated her all these years or was she missing him?............it has been 2 days now and I have decided to finally put to rest my constant bickering with her over the A...tension has decreased between us but deeep down I am still not 100% sure it is over between them 2...I have to accept her truth and that's not easy knowing how she played me for over a year; the keylogger is of course very quiet.....................I am still resolved to making this work; I've postponed my decision to D; as long as her A is over, I am ok waiting for her to "fix herself" and then give us a go; I've told her that she can have him all she wants, just to tell me so I can leave...I don't want to be strung along Smoke and mirrors... Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 This all sounds like surfers thread... The A has NEVER ended - therefore you have no starting point to consider reconciling. Until she gets willing to DO anything and everything to repair the damage she caused (including quitting that job TODAY) - you have nothing! Did you ask her about the message she sent her MM? Ask about the new acct that was to be set up? You say she's gone quiet on the key logger - hats because she's just hiding it better... She's playing you as HER fool... But that is nothing new. Tell her to quit - and have the family move across the country - and she needs to offer up accountability for every move she makes - every single bit of communication with ANYONE! See what she says to that! IF she's not willing - she's likely to always be the cheater - and you are always likely to settle for so little from her! She's trained you - trained you to accept crumbs and call THAT a marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
Author c0nfuzd Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 You are contradicting yourself... You say you don't know IF the A is over - but then you say you will keep trying as long as you know it's over. It's a yes or no question to her = has the affair completely ended? IF she won't answer with yes or no directly - its still continuing. directly she has said it's over...like 2long says, I am at the point where the smallest infraction I find will cause the D to happen Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 directly she has said it's over...like 2long says, I am at the point where the smallest infraction I find will cause the D to happen No you won't! Because she sent him a text from the plane and you continued to reconcile after that. Stop lying to yourself! You will stay no matter how poorly she treats you. She hasn't changed one thing - and you know it! Dinner was a huge manipulative tactic - and you bought into her lie again! You're a complete doormat at this point. It's as if you beg her to treat you terribly, and when that's not enough - you beg for more. She's been a cheat the entire time you've known her - but you just don't want to believe the truth about her. Link to post Share on other sites
robf1971 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 You're a complete doormat at this point. It's as if you beg her to treat you terribly, and when that's not enough - you beg for more. She's been a cheat the entire time you've known her - but you just don't want to believe the truth about her. It's not even about her cheating anymore, it's about your own self respect. How can you expect your wife to value you when all your actions show that you value yourself so little. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
robf1971 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 it was a nice upscale restaurant and the food was exquisite; the ambience was romantic with instrumental-only melodies in the background; This is rewarding bad behaviour. Personally I would have taken her to MC'd's and made her pay for herself. Unbelievable!!! Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Take her cheating a$$ back - yes! Now that you heard what you wanted to hear - make sure you DO get her back! You may live to regret what you THOUGHT you needed/wanted (her) - mainly because you never had her to begin with... She shows evidence that her priority has always been her OMM... But you need to win! So go ahead - consider it your WIN! I consider it all a big fat fail! Link to post Share on other sites
2long Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 directly she has said it's over...like 2long says, I am at the point where the smallest infraction I find will cause the D to happen No you're not. It's not possible - yet. Most professionals will tell you that it takes between 2-5 YEARS 2 recover from an affair. And recovery needs 2 START first. And it can't start until she's ended all contact forever. Every time she breaks it, you start over. What I am saying is that at some point, if she does nothing but placate you in the meantime, you will have detached so well that you'll surprise yourself by not wanting 2 "try" anymore if you catch her at any small thing. You're still 2 clingy 2 understand that at this point. My W and I had been married for 26 years when I discovered her 11-yr "same time next year" affair. It 2k me 3 years 2 detach 2 where I was at that point where I could happily let her go. I recognized it when she was away for 3 weeks on one of her annual teaching assignments. I was beside myself with joy, enjoying the soli2de. I went days without answering her calls. If she had left 2 resume her affair at that point, I would have wished her 2 live happily ever after, because I would NOT have wanted her 2 come home. -ol' 2long Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 What was the reason for inviting more poop in? I mean - that's exactly what you accepted when you agreed to go to dinner = a bigger helping of her pile of bull$hit. You eat it up like its ice cream! Link to post Share on other sites
Author c0nfuzd Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 I caved in and hired a PI...I am pretty sure their A is over but this will give me more peace of mind; it's possible she may have clued in on the keylogger...it is quiet for past 2-3 weeks (since I talked to OMW) my W's time outside of work is accounted for 100%....it's what she's doing at work that I don't know for sure; thinking I should put a GPS on the car 2 but I don't think it's necessary this PI is a wee pricey but he says he will get me an answer visually and acoustically (not sure how he's gonna do that but whatever) I have also come to an agreement with W that I am willing to wait for her to fix herself via IC as long as she's not in a R with someone else....I want her to be honest if she pursues another man so that I can leave her; I don't want to be the one to find out; I am willing to compromise on how we split the assets provided she is honest; I have the kids' best interest at heart; but if I smell anything fishy again, I am filing the next day Link to post Share on other sites
dreamingoftigers Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I tried to have a hard line at first and kept caving. Don't let the other posters beat you up too hard. You will do what you will do when you are ready. Not because LS made you. WWs are a pretty sad lot. They can be pretty damn tricky and manipulative. I would be very very careful and keep your legal ducks in a row waiting. Good for you to verify what she is up to. Link to post Share on other sites
Steadfast Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I tried to have a hard line at first and kept caving. Don't let the other posters beat you up too hard. You will do what you will do when you are ready. Not because LS made you. We've got to remember to be understanding, but don't encourage someone to fail just because you did. IMO, better would be to say "I kept caving...it did me no good". I caved a couple of times too and I don't recommend being played. In fact, I think I may have ruined a couple of chances to see her respond positively (that is to say, to show her true colors) but I didn't under the pretense of giving her 'time and space.' Women who are in love men don't need or want space; they want them. I keep saying that. Hmm...is that fact so difficult to understand? Hang in there. Hiring the PI was probably a good move. Dreaming's advice above is some to take. Regardless of the results, get your affairs in order. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
robf1971 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 ....I want her to be honest if she pursues another man so that I can leave her; She's not been honest with you for years and you suddenly expect her to be now. Massive consequences is what turns people honest eg a thief ending up with a 3 year prison sentence. What consequences has she suffered for her behaviour, Id say a big fat zero. Link to post Share on other sites
Steadfast Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 She's not been honest with you for years and you suddenly expect her to be now. Precisely. That's been mentioned before but thus far swept under the rug. Spouses are programmed to trust; it's a requirement for a happy, healthy relationship. So what happens when that trust is broken? Unfortunately, many cannot 'reprogram' and continue to live under the assumption that the cheating spouse will somehow, magically, come clean because they demand it. If I'm not mistaken, that's the 'dangerous territory' 2long mentioned and why the betrayed can only trust the actions of a cheater. Not the promises of one. That said, if this woman continues to work with her affair partner then she isn't being sincere. Again, if she hasn't expressed a clear, passionate desire to do everything in her power to restore the health of her marriage (that is, if it ever was healthy) that our friend confuzd has nothing. Many of us gave our cheating spouse 'space' only to discover that single, devastating action removed any chance of reconciliation. She will not fear losing something she has no fear of losing. Link to post Share on other sites
Author c0nfuzd Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 I think that while we were married, she was faithful...I have 0 evidence of her being with him except for the last year which is the time she had checked out of M............the 1 night stand she had prior to M is something that still I cannot understand and not sure how it all fits into this mess....one thing is clear is that she won't admit 2 anything at this point until we start counseling which she is open 2 but I am not.....I want her to b completely over her feelings for OM b4 we go into MC Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 She's probably not going to "be completely over her feelings for OM" for the better part of a year or more. As long as there is NO CONTACT (to include no longer working with him), between her and OM...MC can work. Otherwise, it's a waste of money and effort. I'd say go ahead and start MC with her if/when you're convinced the affair is no longer ongoing. You're not going to be able to make any real headway until she does "open up" to you. She SHOULD open up to you on her own, and the two of you should use the MC as an arena to sort through the real difficult stuff. That's how it worked in our recovery. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Is she still working with her OM? Is she completely focusing all her time on ONLY you? What is she spending her time doing when she's home? Link to post Share on other sites
Steadfast Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 ....one thing is clear is that she won't admit 2 anything at this point until we start counseling which she is open 2 but I am not.....I want her to b completely over her feelings for OM b4 we go into MC It'll be years before she is. My prediction is she's planning on using 'MC' to end the marriage for good. I'm jaded because professional, mainstream marriage counseling is perhaps the cruelest joke of all. Chances are, she'll get the encouragement she's looking for. Here's hoping your current plan works out. Get your head clear- Link to post Share on other sites
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