should I win her back?

[2sunny]

She KNOWS you aren't going to take action - that's why you need to.

 

You are the only one road blocking your happiness... Playing this victim role must have been learned in your childhood.

 

Contrary action is critical if you are to take back some of your power - all the power has always been given to your W... Stop doing that!

 

You are never alone! Know that! There are many ways to live a happy life - but not if you stay with a cheating, lying wife. Why are you bothering to want anything from her? You already KNOW the answers to any question you may need to ask - she cheats - she still lies... She will protect her OM too! She's screaming that she doesn't live you - her actions say it all!

 

She had sex with him today - yet you showed no boundary when you didn't kick her a$$ out immediately! Sheez, what does it take - sex in front of you?

 

Send out all those vivid pictures to all friends and family - telling them this is what she's been doing. If she doesn't like it - she should know that her actions portray WHO she IS - and the pics are just the proof.

 

Send them now! She needs to be knocked off the pedestal she's placed herself on - reality of what SHE thinks she's gotten away with - and that she hasn't - just may start her being a bit less full of herself!

 

No more doormat! Get mad! You should be mad! Respect yourself enough to NOT allow her to treAt you like crap!

[2sunny]

Here's the basis of no way to "win" her back...

 

She's still in the affair fog

She doesn't intend to work on the M

There's no trust - the foundation of any R or M

Without trust - you have nothing

She will lie and cover up to protect her OM

She has no alliance to you - in fact- you are her enemy

You get in the way of her agenda and priority = her OM

 

What makes you think this is a "win" situation? It's not!

 

Stop beating the dead horse to get up - when the horse is dead - get off it and walk away!!!

[robf1971]

if I let her go

 

she's gone already

[robf1971]

live you - her actions say it all!

 

She had sex with him today - yet you showed no boundary when you didn't kick her a$$ out immediately! Sheez, what does it take - sex in front of you?

 

 

Pack her stuff and dump it outside OM's house for goodness sake

[Steadfast]

she's gone already

 

If everything you've written is true OP, than this is true. You're afraid of being alone? You already are. I know it's hard. I know it's unfair. I know you feel guilty and I know you're wrecked. These are all things you need to work through. Just because she's there (or even occasionally sleeps with you) doesn't mean she's there or that the marriage is alive. It isn't. Not to her.

 

Do yourself a favor and take the 'Alpha Male' talk with a grain of salt. You don't need email newsletters on how to attract women and be a 'real' man, you simply need to do what's right. Work on your alpha later. Stop being a doormat now. It isn't good for you or your family. Bite the bullet. The first step out of pain and abuse is facing the reality of where you are. Take a breath. Slow down. Stop the spinning and think. Don't hope. Act.

[stillafool]

she will not go for shared custody...joint custody at the most....where I live, mother automatically gets full custody unless I can prove she is unfit, and sadly adultery does not make a case for this; she gets to keep them and I will be alone....why? what did I do to deserve this? how is it that she cheats and ends up happy after? I want to be around my kids at all times, not just sometimes; quick background, I've never known my father and I always said I would be there for my kids...her cheating can be fixed and so I choose to stick around a wee longer

 

but tonight I got another kick in the nuts as far as trusting her; just as I was starting to believe she is over with A; I was going to pick up our kids from school and I see her turning from another street which I know is the way she would come from if she were to see OM; when I asked her where she was coming from, of course she had a legitimate excuse but I did not believe her; I realized I can't trust her; I know she can lie to my face; and then I said, if you want me to trust you, I need your laptop and phone passwords; her excuse to not giving them to me is that she's still not sure she wants to work things out because of our past (everything that happened prior to A) so she doesn't see why she should forego her privacy at this point

 

fair enough I said, let me know when you are ready and this will be one of the requirements for making our M work....transparency; I told her not to take too long because I've already waited 9 months and I can't wait forever.....if she wants out so bad, then hurry up already and file; I told her I would do it if she doesn't

 

Are you saying that where you live people separate and divorce and the fathers never see their kids again? Are you saying that the courts prevent children from having a relationship with their fathers because of divorce?

Somehow I don't believe that for a moment. If you can't be without your kids what are you going to do when they reach 18 and leave home to pursue a life of their own?

 

Now your wife is still not sure she even wants you anymore and it is clear to me that she doesn't. She has lost respect for you and has put the OM on a pedestal. You continue to beg her to let you know when she will be ready to start working on your marriage even though you have already waited 9 months in your basement.

 

Are you financially dependent on your wife? Do you work?

[2long]

she then made her argument for why she shouldnt have to give it 2 me atm...citing her privacy blah blah blah

 

She doesn't know the meaning of the word. Print this out and nail it to her bedroom wall:

 

The Difference Between Secret And Private

 

Private matters are those traits, truths, beliefs, and ideas about ourselves that we keep to ourselves. They might include our fantasies and daydreams, feelings about the way the world works, and spiritual beliefs. Private matters, when revealed either accidentally or purposefully, give another person some insight into the revealer.

 

Secrets, on the other hand, consist of information that has potentially negative impact on someone else-emotionally, physically, or financially. Secrets, when revealed either accidentally or purposefully, cause great chaos or harm to the secret-keeper and those around him or her.

 

Private: I believe in reincarnation.

 

Secret: I have a wife and a mistress and neither knows about the other.

 

Private: I got terrible grades in high school.

 

Secret: I forged my medical degree.

 

The Difference Between Truth and Honesty

 

Truth is empirical, demonstrable fact. Your bank balance, today’s date, whether or not you’re married.

 

Honesty is about feelings. If you’re honest, you are open and clear about how you feel. You can be truthful without being honest and you can be honest without being truthful (the latter a little more difficult). The best relationships, stating the painfully obvious, are both truthful and honest. Trust is built on both truth and honesty, tempered by the proof of predictability and reliability.

 

-ol' 2long

[RobD70]

you sound like turnera lol.....except turnera was never for or against me killing the M; I see your stance on it but I feel it's 2 aggressive

It may be but its the CORRECT approach, you have to play hardball and you can't be soft or you will continue to be used.

 

You appear to be in denial of your situation.

 

Bottom line, you can't be nice to her. You've basically have been enabling/condoning the affair by your inaction and "weak" attitude towards it. She will walk on you as long as you let her.

 

You kick her out and tell her you never want to see her again and she will be 1000x more attracted to you because of it. She is wanting for you to act like a man, do it.

 

That being said she is not worth staying with so you need to come to terms with accepting a divorce. You will not be happy reconciling with her.

[c0nfuzd]

Are you saying that where you live people separate and divorce and the fathers never see their kids again? Are you saying that the courts prevent children from having a relationship with their fathers because of divorce?

Somehow I don't believe that for a moment. If you can't be without your kids what are you going to do when they reach 18 and leave home to pursue a life of their own?

 

Now your wife is still not sure she even wants you anymore and it is clear to me that she doesn't. She has lost respect for you and has put the OM on a pedestal. You continue to beg her to let you know when she will be ready to start working on your marriage even though you have already waited 9 months in your basement.

 

Are you financially dependent on your wife? Do you work?

 

where I live I can only get full visitations by law, unless she's unfit for a mother (which I think it to be the case because of her warped morals but lawyer says I can't use adultery for custody)...so I can't get full custody, joint yes, shared yes, but not full...she's already said no to shared; my kids are under 10 so I want to be there for them now; when they're 18, my job is done

 

I do work and I don't depend on her....

 

I am just trying to understand why everyone is in such a rush for me to give her the boot; u don't seem to understand that it's not that clear-cut...I've done wrong 2 and if I precipitate our demise, she will look at it as whatever....the way she sees it it's 8 years of putting up with my abuse vs 1 year of her infidelity (which according to her happened AFTER she checked out of M)...and looks like I may have been wrong about yesterday's events; there is a good chance she was telling the truth and I jumped the gun

 

for now, we have decided that I won't initiate conversation with her no more; she says that every time I bring up her A, it's like I am attacking her and she sees it as abuse....again; it seems that we cannot even converse about her A without her feeling oppressed....so I am more than happy not to talk to her; it's weird, I was looking at her tonight and I was actually disgusted with her; it hit me how dishonest and deceptive this woman is; but it's ok; I honestly want her to D me, because it's gonna be a good payday for me...she's even trying to get me to sit with her and go over the assets, but I told her I would not help her in any way with the process; get the lawyers involved I tell her; I don't want anything overlooked because there's a good chance she will try to get me to sign all the while hiding something

 

so I am ready for D whenever, I don't want to initiate it just yet; give it a little more time and then BAM.....I sleep every night upstairs now so I know it's eating at her ego, not having her sanctuary...whatever, cry me an effin river....she's lucky I haven't packed her bags; so, I have a feeling she will initiate D sooner than I think, once she realizes I ain't budging on the sleeping upstairs

[ShatteredReality]

First off, this situation is different than many in that your contribution to the demise of the relationship was substantial. So where you have folks here telling you she should be beating the door down to win you back - that's not going to happen for you. Not for a long time, if ever.

 

If I had left my M 3yrs ago? I can tell you exactly how I believe it would have played out. Firstly, I do not believe the guilt I carry over my actions would be as bad as it is now. If he had kicked me out...I would have come to recognize where I went wrong and I would truly beat myself up about it - but I'd have little remorse directed toward him. I say this because I have seen other women and heard them echo my regrets - but since their M didn't work either, they don't so much feel badly about what they did to their ex. It's actually not very unusual to not feel so bad about such things when you feel you were equally dumped on in the relationship.

 

Up until you found out about the A you always talked about how your wife WAS the victim of your relationship. How you treated her so badly and took her for granted. You didn't appreciate what you had and so you lost it. Let me repeat that. YOU LOST WHAT YOU HAD. Your previous marriage is gone. You're not trying to save anything - there's nothing to be saved. If you want to be married to your wife you need to know that you'er trying to build a new relationship with her that's going to have a history behind it where most wonder how you have managed to beat the "odds".

 

Most of our friends and family don't actually know the half of why we had our troubles 3yrs ago. Neither of us felt we needed the judgement from anybody else coloring our decisions while we were making them. We selected a few confidants and that was it. I believe he did choose one of his brothers and a close friend. I had my sister and my mother. My sister fed me lines about how he drove me to it, how he abused me and did he really expect me to sit there and take it forever? She told me to leave him, now was my chance...my mother was the better choice. I stopped talking to my sister when I realized she was one of the reasons we were choosing to keep the matter private. My mother told me she'd support me in whatever decision I made. She told me she wasn't sure why I'd done what I had, but that she knew deep down I had a good heart and just needed to get back on my feet so I could begin the long journey back up the mountain I'd allowed myself to tumble down. There were some truths to some things my sister said, but ultimately I could not consciously choose any thought path that allowed me to justify my actions.

 

I hope your wife can get her head straight enough to get at least that right. It's one of the few things I did get right in all that muck.

 

The decision to make the M work needs to come from you both. Right now neither of you may be in the correct emotional state to make that decision properly. I would suggest taking a breather from it. Do the research as you see fit, but stop making it the forefront of your concentration. Tell her you can't handle all this distrust and you know the only way to build it back up with each other is full disclosure from both of you. Your past with drugs likely has given her some causes for distrust. In all, neither of you have much to go on when it comes to trusting one another. Yes, I know you've made progress and you've made huge strides - yes you deserve both commendation and recognition for it. It does not, however, erase years of neglect and abuse. It takes a long long time to build back trust for each of you.

 

I need to run...but that's probably good...keeps the post from turning into a novel...start with a date and see if you still even like each others company. If you don't, then what are you working towards, really? And if you go on the date - don't talk about your relationship or anything that has happened...just see what it's like to be alone together for dinner and a movie...or whatever...

Edited February 3, 2012 by ShatteredReality
sp

[c0nfuzd]

First off, this situation is different than many in that your contribution to the demise of the relationship was substantial. So where you have folks here telling you she should be beating the door down to win you back - that's not going to happen for you. Not for a long time, if ever.

 

If I had left my M 3yrs ago? I can tell you exactly how I believe it would have played out. Firstly, I do not believe the guilt I carry over my actions would be as bad as it is now. If he had kicked me out...I would have come to recognize where I went wrong and I would truly beat myself up about it - but I'd have little remorse directed toward him. I say this because I have seen other women and heard them echo my regrets - but since their M didn't work either, they don't so much feel badly about what they did to their ex. It's actually not very unusual to not feel so bad about such things when you feel you were equally dumped on in the relationship.

 

Up until you found out about the A you always talked about how your wife WAS the victim of your relationship. How you treated her so badly and took her for granted. You didn't appreciate what you had and so you lost it. Let me repeat that. YOU LOST WHAT YOU HAD. Your previous marriage is gone. You're not trying to save anything - there's nothing to be saved. If you want to be married to your wife you need to know that you'er trying to build a new relationship with her that's going to have a history behind it where most wonder how you have managed to beat the "odds".

 

I have a friend who doesn't know what I did...most of our friends and family don't, actually. Neither of us felt we needed the judgement from anybody else coloring our decisions while we were making them. We selected a few confidants and that was it. I believe he did choose one of his brothers and a close friend. I had my sister and my mother. My sister fed me lines about how he drove me to it, how he abused me and did he really expect me to sit there and take it forever? She told me to leave him, now was my chance...my mother was the better choice. I stopped talking to my sister when I realized she was one of the reasons we were choosing to keep the matter private. My mother told me she'd support me in whatever decision I made. She told me she wasn't sure why I'd done what I had, but that she knew deep down I had a good heart and just needed to get back on my feet so I could begin the long journey back up the mountain I'd allowed myself to tumble down. There were some truths to some things my sister said, but ultimately I could not consciously choose any thought path that allowed me to justify my actions.

 

I hope your wife can get her head straight enough to get at least that right. It's one of the few things I did get right in all that muck.

 

The decision to make the M work needs to come from you both. Right now neither of you may be in the correct emotional state to make that decision properly. I would suggest taking a breather from it. Do the research as you see fit, but stop making it the forefront of your concentration. Tell her you can't handle all this distrust and you know the only way to build it back up with each other is full disclosure from both of you. Your past with drugs likely has given her some causes for distrust. In all, neither of you have much to go on when it comes to trusting one another. Yes, I know you've made progress and you've made huge strides - yes you deserve both commendation and recognition for it. It does not, however, erase years of neglect and abuse. It takes a long long time to build back trust for each of you.

 

I need to run...but that's probably good...keeps the post from turning into a novel...start with a date and see if you still even like each others company. If you don't, then what are you working towards, really? And if you go on the date - don't talk about your relationship or anything that has happened...just see what it's like to be alone together for dinner and a movie...or whatever...

 

so true SR....everything I've done in the last 9 months counts for nothing in her heart and mind; it doesn't help that she was in an A the entire time but I doubt it would have impacted her as much as I thought it would even if she wasn't in an A the whole time

 

she can't stand to be in the same room as me; she keeps telling me how great it was when I was away for 4 days last week and how everything changed back to what it is now, the minute I returned....so I keep telling her to file so she doesn't have to see my face again...at least I know that now she has a lawyer, not sure if she's contacted the lawyer, she says she hasn't but I can't really believe anything she says, soooooooo....

[2sunny]

where I live I can only get full visitations by law, unless she's unfit for a mother (which I think it to be the case because of her warped morals but lawyer says I can't use adultery for custody)...so I can't get full custody, joint yes, shared yes, but not full...she's already said no to shared; my kids are under 10 so I want to be there for them now; when they're 18, my job is done

 

I do work and I don't depend on her....

 

I am just trying to understand why everyone is in such a rush for me to give her the boot; u don't seem to understand that it's not that clear-cut...I've done wrong 2 and if I precipitate our demise, she will look at it as whatever....the way she sees it it's 8 years of putting up with my abuse vs 1 year of her infidelity (which according to her happened AFTER she checked out of M)...and looks like I may have been wrong about yesterday's events; there is a good chance she was telling the truth and I jumped the gun

 

for now, we have decided that I won't initiate conversation with her no more; she says that every time I bring up her A, it's like I am attacking her and she sees it as abuse....again; it seems that we cannot even converse about her A without her feeling oppressed....so I am more than happy not to talk to her; it's weird, I was looking at her tonight and I was actually disgusted with her; it hit me how dishonest and deceptive this woman is; but it's ok; I honestly want her to D me, because it's gonna be a good payday for me...she's even trying to get me to sit with her and go over the assets, but I told her I would not help her in any way with the process; get the lawyers involved I tell her; I don't want anything overlooked because there's a good chance she will try to get me to sign all the while hiding something

 

so I am ready for D whenever, I don't want to initiate it just yet; give it a little more time and then BAM.....I sleep every night upstairs now so I know it's eating at her ego, not having her sanctuary...whatever, cry me an effin river....she's lucky I haven't packed her bags; so, I have a feeling she will initiate D sooner than I think, once she realizes I ain't budging on the sleeping upstairs

 

Tis is exactly why some here have said divorce her - because she's not honest - and without that - you have nothing.

 

Shared custody - fine- get half time with them... That's good... IF you spend that time with them. Expect her to give you some of her time too - because she will be distracted with her OM and won't have time for them she thinks she will.

 

Since she won't own how she's been participating (cheating) - nothing left to work with - especially since she isn't making great strides to reconnect with you and repair the M to a healthier state.

 

She's as good as gone - she checked out.

 

Best to realize she's not intending to participate - call it what it is - and move forward.

 

Stay focused on what's right - for you and for your kids.

 

She's in a fog and you can't make her see what she's doi is backwards... It's same as when you were using - no one can make you quit until you de IDE- same goes for her affair... It's same as any drug... Makes good people do stupid things!

[Steadfast]

she can't stand to be in the same room as me; she keeps telling me how great it was when I was away for 4 days last week and how everything changed back to what it is now, the minute I returned....

 

Friend, leave her alone. The wounds are open and bleeding. There's nothing you can say now...no words profound enough to change anything.

 

She won't hear them.

 

She's mostly angry with herself...and him. You're handy and the anger has to go somewhere. A profound action by you now? Agree with her. No arguing. Nod and walk. No talking. Get your representation and follow that advice to the letter. Focus on the day's tasks. At some point you can remind her what this has done to you but for now, none of it matters. Be smart. Keep your cool. No reason to fake it. Just...do what you have to do.

 

Good intentions = good actions. Focus on the children. Focus on you.

 

Keep posting-

[robf1971]

You kick her out and tell her you never want to see her again and she will be 1000x more attracted to you because of it. She is wanting for you to act like a man, do it.

.

 

I'm with Rob on this, however I wouldn't do it to make her attracted to you. In fact I'd do it in a loving way

 

'wife I get it, you want to be with OM, I think you should have him, so I've packed your stuff and left it in his driveway. I've contacted a lawyer to arrange our custody arrangement of which I expect 50/50 time.'

 

Set her free like this let her be with OM and realise that his 'sh*t' does indeed smell. You just concentrate on being a good dad and drop off the face of the earth to your wife. Ignore her unless it's something pressing about the kids.

[c0nfuzd]

Friend, leave her alone. The wounds are open and bleeding. There's nothing you can say now...no words profound enough to change anything.

 

She won't hear them.

 

She's mostly angry with herself...and him. You're handy and the anger has to go somewhere. A profound action by you now? Agree with her. No arguing. Nod and walk. No talking. Get your representation and follow that advice to the letter. Focus on the day's tasks. At some point you can remind her what this has done to you but for now, none of it matters. Be smart. Keep your cool. No reason to fake it. Just...do what you have to do.

 

Good intentions = good actions. Focus on the children. Focus on you.

 

Keep posting-

 

I am now more convinced than ever that this is exactly what is happening; had a peek finally at her phone; the only conversation that bothers me is the one with her sister who herself is married and has kids; the advice she gives my W is to D....she knows the details of the A and yet that is the advice she gives.....nice.......I have bolded the part of your advice that I will follow to a tee going forward; I am not ready to walk away yet

[ShatteredReality]

So during everything...forever ago....I couldn't see his progress either. I was probably too wrapped up in my feelings for OM, my self pity and self loathing for both my actions during the affair and my inactions for the years before it...ultimately I was in my own little pool with steam coming up all around me - making it so I couldn't clearly see anything past the small circle I was in. When he first made all of his big changes - I did not see them. I did not trust them. I did not believe them. I thought it was all a trap. And then of course I didn't understand why he wanted to trap me - look at all the things I had done to him...who would want someone like me? So of course that made it even more suspect.

 

He asked me if I wanted to be married to him anymore. I told him honestly that I didn't. He asked me if I thought I could ever love him again...then he asked that before I answered that I really think about the answer - don't just give some knee jerk response or lash out to hurt him. So I did think for a minute...the response I came back with I think surprised us both. But basically what I realized was this - It wasn't that I had NO love for him, it wasn't that I couldn't love him, it was that any love there was for me to give him was held under pain the size of a large boulder. On top of that boulder of pain was sitting another one made of fear. So I told him I was afraid of loving him, afraid of giving myself to him in that way again, afraid of being vulnerable to him in any way shape or form. I hated things he had done, but I didn't hate HIM. SO....how does your wife REALLY feel about you?? You say she can't even stand to see your face? What is the reasoning behind that? Is it really hatred? Or is it guilt, fear, pain???

 

I am not saying stay and stick it out, but I am also not saying cut and run...I'm saying calm, logical, honest communication needs to happen between you both. And don't cry. If you have to cry, excuse yourself to another room. If she cries, don't comfort her, just wait until she's got a handle on herself and then move forward.

 

Personally, I'd take a break from all relationship communication and just live for a minute. Breathe and get your bearings. But, when it comes time to have that conversation...have it.

 

And as for her levels of honesty with you. Well yeah...that's a definite problem. You won't be able to trust anything she says whether she's being honest or not for a long time. Trust, once broken, takes all the time in the world to rebuild and is far easier to tear down a second time or third time. Three years later and if I spend too long at the grocery store I have a litany of questions to answer when I get home. Not every time...but during his moments of insecurity - like if we're arguing a lot or something. I have spent a lot of time away from the house in the last week and a half and he's been completely ok with all of it - but just the week before that we were fighting constantly and anytime I left the house he asked me when I got back if I met anybody at the store or wherever I was going. I am not saying that if you stay together it will be roses and daisies...you will hit hard times like any other relationship - and you'll have barrels of junk to dig through if you want to make those hard times more difficult....

 

You said something about thinking too much had happened to be able to salvage anything...I remember thinking that, too. If you truly believe it, then it is true. If, however, you don't...well then it's not.

 

There was this one example on Marriagebuilders or one of that Dr's articles about a woman who cheated on her H, left him and moved in with her OM, then left her OM and came back to her H. She blamed her H for her A even. Well H chose to reconcile and they worked out the marriage - eventually reached a point where they were both glad they had - but the thing that got me was that the woman never apologized to her H. She felt the wrongs she had done were equal to his before it and they were all on even ground...so they both put all of their wrongs in the past and just moved forward. I cannot imagine not apologizing...I still apologize...

 

Anyhow...this is getting long...take a breather. As far as leaving her or not leaving her...try to just take it a day at a time right now. I do, however, believe you should make an appt with a lawyer. If she's got one, so should you. Having one doesn't mean the marriage is doomed - but it does help to protect you in the event this goes the next step down rather than turning and going back up.

 

Also, if she's had an abrupt change in how she's handling you I'd be wary about OM. Just as she's addicted to him - he is addicted to her. He gets a rush out of having her fawn over him and wait around for him like a puppy.

 

You need to reach a point where you are no longer "angry" at her for her actions, instead you need to just be calm, firm...angry outbursts or giant crocodile tears will both push her further away. Don't tolerate her going back to OM - but if she's not cheating again/still, then you don't have to run for the door just yet.

[c0nfuzd]

So during everything...forever ago....I couldn't see his progress either. I was probably too wrapped up in my feelings for OM, my self pity and self loathing for both my actions during the affair and my inactions for the years before it...ultimately I was in my own little pool with steam coming up all around me - making it so I couldn't clearly see anything past the small circle I was in. When he first made all of his big changes - I did not see them. I did not trust them. I did not believe them. I thought it was all a trap. And then of course I didn't understand why he wanted to trap me - look at all the things I had done to him...who would want someone like me? So of course that made it even more suspect.

 

He asked me if I wanted to be married to him anymore. I told him honestly that I didn't. He asked me if I thought I could ever love him again...then he asked that before I answered that I really think about the answer - don't just give some knee jerk response or lash out to hurt him. So I did think for a minute...the response I came back with I think surprised us both. But basically what I realized was this - It wasn't that I had NO love for him, it wasn't that I couldn't love him, it was that any love there was for me to give him was held under pain the size of a large boulder. On top of that boulder of pain was sitting another one made of fear. So I told him I was afraid of loving him, afraid of giving myself to him in that way again, afraid of being vulnerable to him in any way shape or form. I hated things he had done, but I didn't hate HIM. SO....how does your wife REALLY feel about you?? You say she can't even stand to see your face? What is the reasoning behind that? Is it really hatred? Or is it guilt, fear, pain???

 

I am not saying stay and stick it out, but I am also not saying cut and run...I'm saying calm, logical, honest communication needs to happen between you both. And don't cry. If you have to cry, excuse yourself to another room. If she cries, don't comfort her, just wait until she's got a handle on herself and then move forward.

 

Personally, I'd take a break from all relationship communication and just live for a minute. Breathe and get your bearings. But, when it comes time to have that conversation...have it.

 

And as for her levels of honesty with you. Well yeah...that's a definite problem. You won't be able to trust anything she says whether she's being honest or not for a long time. Trust, once broken, takes all the time in the world to rebuild and is far easier to tear down a second time or third time. Three years later and if I spend too long at the grocery store I have a litany of questions to answer when I get home. Not every time...but during his moments of insecurity - like if we're arguing a lot or something. I have spent a lot of time away from the house in the last week and a half and he's been completely ok with all of it - but just the week before that we were fighting constantly and anytime I left the house he asked me when I got back if I met anybody at the store or wherever I was going. I am not saying that if you stay together it will be roses and daisies...you will hit hard times like any other relationship - and you'll have barrels of junk to dig through if you want to make those hard times more difficult....

 

You said something about thinking too much had happened to be able to salvage anything...I remember thinking that, too. If you truly believe it, then it is true. If, however, you don't...well then it's not.

 

There was this one example on Marriagebuilders or one of that Dr's articles about a woman who cheated on her H, left him and moved in with her OM, then left her OM and came back to her H. She blamed her H for her A even. Well H chose to reconcile and they worked out the marriage - eventually reached a point where they were both glad they had - but the thing that got me was that the woman never apologized to her H. She felt the wrongs she had done were equal to his before it and they were all on even ground...so they both put all of their wrongs in the past and just moved forward. I cannot imagine not apologizing...I still apologize...

 

Anyhow...this is getting long...take a breather. As far as leaving her or not leaving her...try to just take it a day at a time right now. I do, however, believe you should make an appt with a lawyer. If she's got one, so should you. Having one doesn't mean the marriage is doomed - but it does help to protect you in the event this goes the next step down rather than turning and going back up.

 

Also, if she's had an abrupt change in how she's handling you I'd be wary about OM. Just as she's addicted to him - he is addicted to her. He gets a rush out of having her fawn over him and wait around for him like a puppy.

 

You need to reach a point where you are no longer "angry" at her for her actions, instead you need to just be calm, firm...angry outbursts or giant crocodile tears will both push her further away. Don't tolerate her going back to OM - but if she's not cheating again/still, then you don't have to run for the door just yet.

 

thank you for the post....it makes me feel like I am not crazy for not listening to the others who want me to quit; it's interesting to hear from someone who has been in my W's situation and see how they view things

at this point, I am severing all communication with her, unless she addresses me...just this morning we had an argument over the kids this time, not her A...so it seems to me that no matter what I say or do at this point is like an attack on her...she is just so frazzled and with Steadfast's POV, it certainly makes sense; whatever resentment she feels towards herself and OM, she takes it out on me...so I will make myself as small as possible in the house and let her breathe..

at this point, I am almost 100% sure she is done with A....logically it makes sense that she is finished...all the evidence points that way right now and I am not just talking about keylogger...her mood and actions all point to a disastrous ending of the A....from everything I have read from her to him, my W was completely head over heels (no pun intended lol) for him....I did not even know she could fall this hard for another man; she did things for him in less than 1 year that I could not get her to do for me in 15 years...she loved and worshipped this man...and that is why I think she has such a hard time coming to grip with the harsh reality...OM has decided to fix his M, she is back to where she was b4

[RobD70]

I'm with Rob on this, however I wouldn't do it to make her attracted to you. In fact I'd do it in a loving way

I went with a more hardline approach because I can tell you how many times I've heard where the BS went into a-hole mode after finding out about an A and the WS reacted positively to it. Honestly I would not suggest being a prick or even act mad but I would make it known that the A was a deal breaker. The WS doesn't really know what they will be losing until its too late.

 

In this case, there isn't really much hope. I should have said "respect" instead of attraction but they both hurt each other to the point where it would be better for both of them to end it. Some marriages are not worth saving.

[Purewil1]

I've been reading your thread for quite sometime and I wanted to make a comment.There's a lot of talk about getting into an alpha stage. And that's easier said than done... I get it. But whatever you decide to do there needs to be an omega stage. What I mean by this is that you will have to end a lot of things going on. Even if divorce is not an option you still need to bring some things to an end. A new beginning cannot thrive properly without the old being let go (usually).

 

I understand that you have done things in the past in this relationship. But that's just it... it's in the past. It is nothing more than what you make it (after it's happened of course). You and her need to move on from the past. Easier said than done, yes. Your bad decision doesn't lead to other people making bad decisions ( notice I didn't say mistakes) Part of getting past what you've done and what she's done is taking accountability. I see that on your part but not hers.

 

Which brings me to my final point (cause I don't want this to be long) you yourself cannot choose to save this marriage. Your marriage isn't going to get a jump start with one of you doing the jumping. And cowering in a corner while she decides she wants to behave badly isn't going to do anything but promote more bullsh*t to come your way. I've probably said what everyone else has said but still... I guess my point is your not going to get a man's product by being a b*tch. Don't mean to be harsh, just a little tough love.

[ShatteredReality]

thank you for the post....it makes me feel like I am not crazy for not listening to the others who want me to quit; it's interesting to hear from someone who has been in my W's situation and see how they view things

at this point, I am severing all communication with her, unless she addresses me...just this morning we had an argument over the kids this time, not her A...so it seems to me that no matter what I say or do at this point is like an attack on her...she is just so frazzled and with Steadfast's POV, it certainly makes sense; whatever resentment she feels towards herself and OM, she takes it out on me...so I will make myself as small as possible in the house and let her breathe..

at this point, I am almost 100% sure she is done with A....logically it makes sense that she is finished...all the evidence points that way right now and I am not just talking about keylogger...her mood and actions all point to a disastrous ending of the A....from everything I have read from her to him, my W was completely head over heels (no pun intended lol) for him....I did not even know she could fall this hard for another man; she did things for him in less than 1 year that I could not get her to do for me in 15 years...she loved and worshipped this man...and that is why I think she has such a hard time coming to grip with the harsh reality...OM has decided to fix his M, she is back to where she was b4

 

I'm happy to give my experience as an example of what could be happening in your wifes head anytime. It's all in the name of trying to make the best of a bad situation, right? I did something awful and terrible - the least I can do is try to help someone else understand the madness behind it all when they find themselves smack in the middle of a similar situation.

 

But it's important to remember that there's more to the story of where your lives are right now than the small portion you can see with the magnifying glass you carry around. (that we all carry around when looking at our own lives)

 

Steadfast is a great resource. He'll help advise you on how to get out of this with - if nothing else - self respect and some dignity. I went back and read his last post and I agree completely. Don't poke the bear right now - don't let her bowl over you by any means, but it's likely best to simply not engage right now.

 

As for the bit about her doing things for OM that she never did for you...I sort of did that too...and I think I can sort of explain that. I mean I didn't go out of my way to allow him to do things to me that I hadn't allowed anybody else to do before - nothing like some of the stories I have heard or anything...but...Ok well here's my theory on this. Completely unresearched btw (there is my disclaimer that this came from me). She already was doing something she never thought she'd do. She was in the middle of this affair...and...well for me it went like this - in the beginning it was him pursuing me relentlessly, following me into empty rooms and trying to steal kisses and hugs as I ducked and dodged and squeaked like a nervous mouse whenever he made physical contact. So the beginning - I don't know - I have no idea why he kept coming back! But he did. And once he got that first kiss planted...well that was it for me...I stopped fighting the attraction, I started to allow myself to be in rooms alone where I knew he could find me...I began to hope he would in fact. Even though I ran out of the room after that kiss...it was all that was needed in my case to break my resolve. Sadly. Pathetically. So then...after that I realized I was already doing something I never thought in a million years I was even capable of doing - I was having an emotional affair that morphed into a physical one. I had allowed this to happen. Well, once you're there...what self respect do you have left?? You tell yourself - wow - this guy must be something special if I am allowing myself to become this person in order to be with him...and BAM - next thing you know he's no longer some scumbag trying to get into your pants - he's this amazing man who adores you and wants to save you from the worst parts of your life and yourself. You begin to idealize him and build around him this persona that likely doesn't exist. So if he asks you to do something you wouldn't normally do?? Yeah...well it's not that big of a stretch at that point.

 

Like gateway drugs - one leads to another leads to another leads to another.

 

It's sick. It's an addiction...and once you're over it you look back on it with the same distaste you would any other - except instead of some drug coming into your life and wreaking havoc on everything you hold dear - it's a PERSON. So there's someone who can SHARE accountability. In the beginning I took all the blame...for awhile I put most of it on him...now I recognize it's equally shared and as such I war with how much I can hate him without hating myself. I'm much more content to just feel slightly ill whenever I have to go back to that place I worked with him where I believe he still works...and as such, that feeling of dizzy nausea keeps me far enough away that I have been known to outright refuse training sessions when they're scheduled in that building.

 

Sorry...ran on and on again...

[ShatteredReality]

I am now more convinced than ever that this is exactly what is happening; had a peek finally at her phone; the only conversation that bothers me is the one with her sister who herself is married and has kids; the advice she gives my W is to D....she knows the details of the A and yet that is the advice she gives.....nice.......I have bolded the part of your advice that I will follow to a tee going forward; I am not ready to walk away yet

 

Ummm...yeah...that's family. My sister told me to get out while I could. Now, 3yrs later...she still tells me I should leave him. She rarely has a nice thing to say about my husband. I've had to tell her to stop talking about him pretty much altogether. I never vent to her during difficult times unless it's spur of the moment and I am with her when he does something to tick me off or something. Even then, once I realize who I am venting to, I tone it way down. My sister is married and has kids. She also has one abusive ex in her past and is very jaded against men in general. Her current H - she paints him a saint...but if she ever leaves him we will all hear about how terrible he was. Your wife will not get balanced advice from her sister ever...and now, after all of this? Truly never. But your wife will have to recognize that for herself. Don't ever speak poorly of her sister to her. Take the higher ground. Seriously. The most you should ever say is that you don't like that she allows her sister to speak negatively about you to her. And you can't even start saying that yet. So...let that one go.

[bestplayer]

First off, this situation is different than many in that your contribution to the demise of the relationship was substantial. So where you have folks here telling you she should be beating the door down to win you back - that's not going to happen for you. Not for a long time, if ever.

 

If I had left my M 3yrs ago? I can tell you exactly how I believe it would have played out. Firstly, I do not believe the guilt I carry over my actions would be as bad as it is now. If he had kicked me out...I would have come to recognize where I went wrong and I would truly beat myself up about it - but I'd have little remorse directed toward him. I say this because I have seen other women and heard them echo my regrets - but since their M didn't work either, they don't so much feel badly about what they did to their ex. It's actually not very unusual to not feel so bad about such things when you feel you were equally dumped on in the relationship.

 

Up until you found out about the A you always talked about how your wife WAS the victim of your relationship. How you treated her so badly and took her for granted. You didn't appreciate what you had and so you lost it. Let me repeat that. YOU LOST WHAT YOU HAD. Your previous marriage is gone. You're not trying to save anything - there's nothing to be saved. If you want to be married to your wife you need to know that you'er trying to build a new relationship with her that's going to have a history behind it where most wonder how you have managed to beat the "odds".

 

Most of our friends and family don't actually know the half of why we had our troubles 3yrs ago. Neither of us felt we needed the judgement from anybody else coloring our decisions while we were making them. We selected a few confidants and that was it. I believe he did choose one of his brothers and a close friend. I had my sister and my mother. My sister fed me lines about how he drove me to it, how he abused me and did he really expect me to sit there and take it forever? She told me to leave him, now was my chance...my mother was the better choice. I stopped talking to my sister when I realized she was one of the reasons we were choosing to keep the matter private. My mother told me she'd support me in whatever decision I made. She told me she wasn't sure why I'd done what I had, but that she knew deep down I had a good heart and just needed to get back on my feet so I could begin the long journey back up the mountain I'd allowed myself to tumble down. There were some truths to some things my sister said, but ultimately I could not consciously choose any thought path that allowed me to justify my actions.

 

I hope your wife can get her head straight enough to get at least that right. It's one of the few things I did get right in all that muck.

 

The decision to make the M work needs to come from you both. Right now neither of you may be in the correct emotional state to make that decision properly. I would suggest taking a breather from it. Do the research as you see fit, but stop making it the forefront of your concentration. Tell her you can't handle all this distrust and you know the only way to build it back up with each other is full disclosure from both of you. Your past with drugs likely has given her some causes for distrust. In all, neither of you have much to go on when it comes to trusting one another. Yes, I know you've made progress and you've made huge strides - yes you deserve both commendation and recognition for it. It does not, however, erase years of neglect and abuse. It takes a long long time to build back trust for each of you.

 

I need to run...but that's probably good...keeps the post from turning into a novel...start with a date and see if you still even like each others company. If you don't, then what are you working towards, really? And if you go on the date - don't talk about your relationship or anything that has happened...just see what it's like to be alone together for dinner and a movie...or whatever...

 

Completly agree with u .

 

 

I rarely post here but I couldn't help myself when I see some posters are blindly forcing their so-called best practices of saving a marriage regardless of the dynamics of this particular situation . There is no point in manipulating your partner in to staying with you . In this case , divorce threat wouldn't be effective because at all because OP's wife did have some genuine concerns due to some past issues. She will make a right decison only when situation cools down & both of them aren't so charged up beacuse of this whole mess .

 

Best of luck

[c0nfuzd]

update....her mom asked me to move into their home for next 2 months to give W her "space"

 

this "space" word is really getting to me.....she's had 9 months of space and look at what she was doing the whole time....her excuse is that I was still in the house and it wasn't really space; my excuse is that even if I was out of the house, she was still in an A, so how could she get space anyways

 

I'm just getting so fed up with all this crap...seriously; I've been dragged thru mud for 9 months and now I have to leave the house because she can't handle me being around...I told her mom if I agree to this, in 2 months she has to make that decision once and for all...either work for the M or let's go for D...

 

so, I want to understand why so many of yaz are so against me moving out of my house besides the obvious that I wasn't the one that cheated...I have her mom's word that her daughter/my W will not use this against me if we should go ahead and D....now before you all speak up, I should mention to you that I have HUGE respect for her mom...put it this way, I have more respect for her than I do for my own mother...that should tell you what I think of when she speaks; she says her daughter really needs this and that she will also work with her to make sure she does not D; she can't guarantee it, but she says she sat outside of our M for far too long and now she is taking the reins to bring back some sense into W....she believes that as long as I can put behind me the A, her daughter can also let my past go and give a serious try at MC

 

what say you?

[2sunny]

Hell no - don't move!

 

Possession is 9/10's of the law!

 

Since SHE wants space - and someone needs to move - have your W move. Her Mom has space - she can and should move since she cheated.

 

She's probably afraid to have her Mom "see" what really IS going on in her life (the OM). She probably doesn't want Mom to see how she's been operating.

 

Don't move! Tell her to go!

[2long]

You've got 2 be kidding me!

 

You're ac2ally considering this offer??

 

If she thinks her daughter needs 2 be away from you for 2 months, she should offer a room 2 HER, not YOU.

 

STAND YOUR GROUND FOR YOUR FAMILY AND YOUR MARRIAGE. I don't know if you think I one of the ones saying only 2 dump her, but I'm not. You have that choice 2 make, not me. I can only offer suggestions based on my own experiences and what little I know of your sitch.

 

Just remember, and maybe remind your mother in law, this: Your WW's confusion and need for space comes from having been dumped by the OM and having 2 face the reality of what she's done. It has nothing 2 do with you. So why would you change your lifestyle and your relationship with your kids 2 "give her space", especially when you're the only one with a sane mind in operation at the moment?

 

STAY PUT, black dangit!

 

-ol' 2long