What's it like to be married to a Bipolar person?

[carhill]

I agree and know how painful it is to make that choice when one loves someone. My sympathies. IME, once removed from the environment, the 'crazy' goes away for the healthy person. It's a situational psychological response which ends once the stimulus is removed. In my case, it took nearly a year until the nightmares subsided. It didn't help that we (exW and I) were divorcing at the same time. All better now. Hope it works out well for you

[KathyM]

Step-brother (same father, different mothers) of prior example is also medicated bi-polar. I've worked with him on a couple of our real estate projects. Frankly, he's scary. I've never carried a weapon on my person before working with him. He has this wild look in his eyes. Can pound back a case of beer in 30 minutes. Watched him literally fondling my friend's daughter in front of her husband. Totally fearless when manic. Hits all the bullet points on KathyM's list. Can sleep, literally, for days and then be up the same. Fired from his job as a prison guard in the Nevada State prison system. Now driving long-haul big rigs and coming to a town near you. Very charismatic, approaching sociopathic, in behavior. Managed to stay alive for 50+ years. How, I don't know.

Very dangerous for a BD person to be drinking alcohol when on meds. They are supposed to strictly limit or avoid alcohol altogether, regardless of the fact that they are on meds. Sexual promiscuity, loss of self control, loss of judgement are also symptoms of BD.

[carhill]

Unless I have my weapon out and the safety off, I'm not going to tell a guy who's drinking, bi-polar and can kill me with his bare hands that he should not be drinking

 

But I do wholeheartedly agree with you from a medical standpoint.

[dreamingoftigers]

Thank you v v much! And I have gotten nightmares etc.

 

And the crazy does go away when he is gone because I feel like I have more controls and normalcy in my life.

 

A lot of the time it feels like sanity is a floating state with him. If I do "xyz behaviour" than that is okay, but if you do "xyz behaviour" then that is not okay because the stars might look pink on Venus.

 

Ugh.

 

For instance, we tried living on separate floors this summer to give each other space and work out our own issues. He was supposed to pay half of household expenses including childcare for our daughter. He chose instead not to work for the first two months after coming home claiming he needed "a break" etc.

We made the agreement that I could not carry him and that he would have to return that money owed because we were living seperately with separate finances.

 

He instead used what little money he had to go drinking and disappear for nights at a time.

 

Eventually he trashed my room, the entryway, broke the stove and took off.

(very intoxicated that night).

 

Since we have met up again and he has been sober for months, I have requested that he make a payment plan for the approx $3000 he owes me (which I am going to send to his parents anyways because they shelled out for treatment last year with funds that they really didn't have at the time but u didn't know that.)

 

Anyways, he has said that he shouldn't have to give that back because "I am his wife." Yet, when I asked a short time ago if I would be able to borrow some for rent (I was mildly concerned about month-end). He was adamant that I return it to him ASAP.

 

When taking to him about the payment plan, I illustrated the difference and he said that there was a big difference because he "was in school, and struggling."

 

He is taking one course and I am back to school myself next month, plus all of the bills and rent which he no longer pays although I am sure that I would probably entitled to that legally if he wasn't making money under the table.

 

Then the argument became that it was because he didn't "like being told what to do." oh ffs. It's just more "my behaviour and choices are everyone else's responsibility, and if I do the wrong thing, it is because of some failure on your part, because _I_ know that I am a good person."

 

This is the same guy who trashed the place without _any_ provocation and called the police on himself because he wasn't in the wrong here! (they arrested him for public intoxication, I had to give them his shoes. He was out in the street in sock-feet hollering at me. 2 am. Cripes.)

 

You know what? I change my previous thought. He might be bipolar.

[betterdeal]

He might also be a dick.

[RecordProducer]

I once dated someone with bipolar.

He sure does sound like a lot of... um... fun! Poor thing, he.

 

One can be either manic or depressive and never experience the other side.

Then how do you diagnose someone as bipolar if they're only depressive and never experience a manic side?

 

Geesh...what type of woman marries this type of guy? Shiver.

 

My husband it this....my husband is that... 'I either completely lack any type of social maturity to understand a fellow human being before getting married or I'm an idiot'.

Yes, you're an idiot.

 

Very dangerous for a BD person to be drinking alcohol when on meds. They are supposed to strictly limit or avoid alcohol altogether, regardless of the fact that they are on meds. Sexual promiscuity, loss of self control, loss of judgement are also symptoms of BD.

See, this is another thing: he avoids alcohol and of course doesn't do drugs either, although he smoked pot when he was very young (nothing unusual). But, I've never seen him take any meds and I would know because there would have to be doctors' appointments, presciptions, etc. He has a lot of self-discipline and is extremely intelligent, so I wouldn't be surprised if he actually found a way to hide whatever he has. And he used to be prmoscuous before the aids era.

 

He might also be a dick.

Oh, that's his primary diagnosis...but I meant apart from that one..

[dreamingoftigers]

huh?

 

Why did you give him his shoes? Why did you 'meet up again'?

 

Why are you even talking to this guy?

 

I assume you are not stupid. Something in this story must be missing.

 

1 I gave the police his shoes because they were going to bring him downtown to the drunk tank, and then in the morning the dumbass wouldn't have his shoes. Instead of dealing with a phone call in the morning (I knew he wouldn't call if he had his shoes, but he might if he didn't) I just thought I would just give them his shoes. Made sense to me. It was a two second gesture that cost me nothing in dignity or self-respect.

 

2. We have talked again since because we have a daughter together. Furthermore, he has made many significant efforts to overcome his addictions. I will continue to encourage that and his quest for treatment into the future.

 

3. There is quite a bit missing from the story, but I have crammed a lot of it into threads all over LS, including my own.

 

4. I have crap boundaries and tons of problems processing anger and what to do with it. I have grown a lot in the last 3 years. This is the next challenge. Aside from a few other assorted ones.

[dreamingoftigers]

Actually my story is sadder then that. One other person on LS knows the details.

 

After H trashed the place and was arrested by police, our daughter was seized by Social Services because of his addictive problems and I have a seven year old Mental Health Record for attempting suicide.

 

They took her six weeks after the incident, long after I had kicked him out/he left the house.

 

That was enough grounds for them to take her and place her in Foster Care.

 

I have to complete only three terms for her to come home:

 

1. A mental health evaluation clearing me of having suicidal behaviors (which I have not had since before I even met my husband, and I attended therapy for a two year stint after those issues arose).

 

2. A patenting assessment. Whenever a child is seized, parents must undergo thus before a child is returned.

 

3. Because of my husband biting me last year and then trashing the place later on, I must attend a 14 week long course dealing with domestic violence.

 

He has terms as well:

 

1. 8 weeks of relapse prevention

2. Both assesents listed above

3. Random follicle testing and urine analysis

4. 14 weeks of d

[dreamingoftigers]

Domestic violence prevention.

 

I am extremely confident that I will pass both evaluations.

 

What is extremely heart-wrenching is that I see my daughter grieving and wanted to come home to Mom every Tuesday and Thursday for the combined four hours per week that I am allowed to visit with her.

 

She grieves as hard or harder then I do and wails and sobs at the end of each visit when it is time to go for lunch.

 

The pit of humiliation I am in is the worst ever. I go in each week and see other parents who are obvious drug users or that have been violent with their children. I have something in common with meth heads: my child got seized.

 

They test you. It is even part of the process to see if you are going to lose it or act like a nut. I give them nothing they can use against me. I bought the office and my case worker chocolates for Christmas. I wrote her Foster Parent a thank you note for caring for my daughter at this time.

 

I made a binder detailing my daughter's diet, likes and dislikes etc.

 

I request more visitation every time I see my worker. I request phone calls (they won't allow it). I track every minute that they are late for a visit.

 

I put batteries in some of their broken toys. I bring fruit and oatmeal for my daughter and I to share. I bring toys and makeup and books for my daughter and I to use on our visits to show extra interest.

 

I never let them see me down.

 

Marriage? Hah! That was a cakewalk.

 

And now you know.

By the way, she has been gone since Oct 28th. The earliest I could get either evaluation done from their people is in February. No recourse, no shortening that length of time. The process averages a year.

[dreamingoftigers]

Sorry for the ultimate thread jack.

[carhill]

Wow, that's rough. Thanks for sharing. I hope your process beats the averages.

[KathyM]

He sure does sound like a lot of... um... fun! Poor thing, he.

 

Then how do you diagnose someone as bipolar if they're only depressive and never experience a manic side?

 

Good question. Bipolar is often misdiagnosed or mistaken for some other illness or disorder. If someone only experiences the depressive side, it could be misdiagnosed as depression instead of bipolar, and often is misdiagnosed as that. If he only experiences the manic side, he will be normally diagnosed with bipolar if he meets at least five of the criteria for that disorder. I read over your list again in your OP, and it doesn't sound to me like BD. It could be some other illness or disorder. I have a whole 3" thick book of disorders and illnesses that I'm studying for a current class I'm taking. I'd have to go through it and see which disorder or illness best fits with your list of symptoms. Or he could not necessarily have a mental disorder or illness, but be poorly differentiated, meaning he is not reacting in a balanced way between what he wants for himself vs. being in a cooperative relationship. I'd have to study my diagnostic manual to give you a better idea of what he might have, but I don't believe it is BD, based on the symptoms you described. Everyone has mood swings from time to time. Doesn't mean they are bipolar. They may have poor differentiation and be reactionary at times, and switch to distancing themselves when they feel they are losing their personal autonomy to a relationship's demands. That's not BD, though.

[dreamingoftigers]

I haven't wanted to share it because of the shame it brings. And the judgment.

 

Most of the time it is deserved. But not for my bond with Lah. My current caseworker has stated that she uncategorically disagrees with the original assessor's decision to seize. (the transfer the files from an assessor to a new workers after seizures take place)

 

She can see the need for my H to have terms placed on him but currently the original assessor stated he is not even able to have supervised visits. This is due to the fact that he has an issue with porn. The original assessor has stated that she views that as a form of pedophilia and that he may expose our daughter to it. (WTF?)

 

He has never EVER in any way shown any signs or history of having any illegal or underage materials. It was solely the opinion of the assessor's opinion on the matter. I also took Lah in to be assessed for any kind of inappropriate sexual contact or influence when the suggestion was made shortly before her seizure and the team doing the assessment cleared her as not only being fine but in fact 'cheerful and exceptionally bright.'

 

It was quite an evaluation and getting a two year old to pee in a cup is quite a challenge.

 

My husband is many things. Many annoying and aggravating things. But not that, ever. He was exceptionally good at hiding his porn as well, so unless my daughter knows how to use spyware.... You get my point.

 

Ugh. Ugh. Ugh. The caseworker I have now has tried to expedite my file. Normally getting a parenting assessment would've waited closer to April-May but apparently many parents who have their children seized are apathetic. Many won't even go to the visits (nice, eh?). I won't stop bugging them. I go in on days where I don't have visits to make inquiries and push for the process to be faster. Finally being irritating is paying off.

 

I may not have been a full-fledged mental case before this began, but it may just finalize the metamorphosis.

 

Anyways. I will stop ripping this thread to shreds before I score and infraction.

[dreamingoftigers]

He sure does sound like a lot of... um... fun! Poor thing, he.

 

Then how do you diagnose someone as bipolar if they're only depressive and never experience a manic side?

 

Good question. Bipolar is often misdiagnosed or mistaken for some other illness or disorder. If someone only experiences the depressive side, it could be misdiagnosed as depression instead of bipolar, and often is misdiagnosed as that. If he only experiences the manic side, he will be normally diagnosed with bipolar if he meets at least five of the criteria for that disorder. I read over your list again in your OP, and it doesn't sound to me like BD. It could be some other illness or disorder. I have a whole 3" thick book of disorders and illnesses that I'm studying for a current class I'm taking. I'd have to go through it and see which disorder or illness best fits with your list of

symptoms. Or he could not necessarily have a mental disorder or illness, but be poorly differentiated, meaning he is not reacting in a balanced way between what he wants for himself vs. being in a cooperative relationship. I'd have to study my diagnostic manual to give you a better idea of what he might have, but I don't believe it is BD, based on the symptoms you described. Everyone has mood swings from time to time. Doesn't mean they are bipolar. They may have poor differentiation and be reactionary at times, and switch to distancing themselves when they feel they are losing their personal autonomy

to a relationship's demands. That's not BD, though.

 

Another interesting tidbit is that you can actually "see" bipolar under SPECTscanning. It shows up almost like "random patches" of the brain are lit up, almost non-sensical in order. Hence the back and forth. As well as the "racing thoughts." Also why each bipolar is different in the ways that they act out. And why it is harder the find a medication balance. Personally I believe bipolar is an umbrella term for simply "random functioning." As time goes on the disorder itself will be split into more sensical groupings allowing for more accurate diagnosis and medicating/nutrition.

[RecordProducer]

Thanks for the thorough explanation, Dr. D!

 

I think he has the good old AD. (as*hole disorder)

[dreamingoftigers]

i don't know about that. Everything i have read about the brain and Human nature etc. seems to suggest to me that there aren't really "*******s" in the sense that we consider them. I personally believe that we (and therefore by extension our seemingly inexplainsble actions) are a combination of 3 things:

 

1. Our neural function

2. Our history

3. the influence of a higher power or Quantum Field or what have you

 

The third factor is simply because I do believe in God and the influence of God. As I get older I find that I have to because there is so much madness in the world that not believing makes things seem pretty bleak and gray.

I know others don't believe, so that makes the first two factors easier to explain.

 

Our brains are sort of like the hardware portion of a computer. 9 out of 10 of us do not actually have "healthy", "balanced" or normal brains under scan. some of that is the product of genetic oddity, conditions in the womb, injury, nutrition, drugs etc. That would be factor 1

 

factor 2, our history is very much like the programming that goes into the computer. Our history can very much determine our relative functionality just as much as our neural function.

 

Our brains are quite "plastic" or healable and changeable. But they can also become quite set. We tend to scan our environments for things that best reinforce our early history. for instance a child that is often told that they are ugly will into adulthood see 'proofs' of this everywhere whether it is true or not. (if the pattern remains fairly uninterrupted)

 

oxytocin is a great pattern-interrupter. it dissolves away the influence of older pathways. it is also the human bonding hormone, which is why people seem so different in the early stages of love. they are actually accepting new brain inputs and patterns. You would have noticed this monumental shift in yourself when you became a mother.

 

So, in conclusion, when I see a jackass I realize thst either my programming or neural function is faulty in its perception OR their neural function and/or history is faulty. i have a hard time seeing a jackass after that.

[era]

Also - Doctors are hesitant to prescribe anti-depressants to patients who are BiplarII (symptoms include mostly depression) because there's a chance the patient will make a swing right into mania.

[betterdeal]

So, in conclusion, when I see a jackass I realize thst either my programming or neural function is faulty in its perception OR their neural function and/or history is faulty. i have a hard time seeing a jackass after that.

 

The point of seeing a dickhead as a dickhead, and not a patient or an animal with a specific genotype or environmental experiences, is it makes it easier for you to deal with them. When you spend time delving into why they are like they are, you are not spending time creating the right conditions for you. You are prevaricating, and evading the rather daunting task of changing your brain chemistry, the inner most part of you. There is always a selfish reason to everything we do, and when you accumulate days of research yet cannot bring yourself to spend a couple of hours changing the locks, that's yours.

 

I'm sure PolPot, Stalin and Hitler were all as much victims of circumstance as any troubled soul, and in the right circumstances could have been aided to less angry, less violent outlooks on life, but when the circumstances are not right for that, command and control of the situation is the only thing that will change the outcome.

 

As you know, dot, I've been on both sides of this particular coin to varying degrees and I know where you're at. All I can say is that the only way I know of making a material change to your destiny is to make material changes now.

[KathyM]

 

Another interesting tidbit is that you can actually "see" bipolar under SPECTscanning. It shows up almost like "random patches" of the brain are lit up, almost non-sensical in order. Hence the back and forth. As well as the "racing thoughts." Also why each bipolar is different in the ways that they act out. And why it is harder the find a medication balance. Personally I believe bipolar is an umbrella term for simply "random functioning." As time goes on the disorder itself will be split into more sensical groupings allowing for more accurate diagnosis and medicating/nutrition.

Yes, the brain does undergo changes when people develop BD. As I understand it, the brain actually shrinks to some extent. A person with BD is genetically predisposed for that illness, and if they experience stress in their life to a degree that the stress receptors in the brain can't handle it, then people can develop BD symptoms if they are genetically predisposed to it. The impulse control center of the brain shrinks and that causes them to lose control over themselves, and causes lack of good judgement, risk taking, sexual promiscuity, etc. The most common medication given for BD is Lithium, which blocks the stress hormones from reaching the stress receptors in the brain. (I did a research project last summer on the causes of BD, and the research showed that it is caused from stress in genetically predisposed people). On another note, I'm very sorry about what happened to you and your family. If your husband is indeed BD, then he really can't help the erratic behavior and addictions that he is dealing with. He has lost control over his impulses. I'm sorry. I hope he'll be able to go on some medication that will help him, and I hope you'll be able to get your daughter back soon.

[KathyM]

Also - Doctors are hesitant to prescribe anti-depressants to patients who are BiplarII (symptoms include mostly depression) because there's a chance the patient will make a swing right into mania.

True. Doctors don't normally prescribe anti-depressants for BD. Lithium is usually the drug prescribed, which blocks the stress hormones in your body from being received by the stress sensors in your brain. Since stress is what triggers BD symptoms, blocking the stress hormones acts to prevent symptoms from occurring. Lithium is used for both sides of the disorder--mania and depression.

[dreamingoftigers]

True. Doctors don't normally prescribe anti-depressants for BD. Lithium is usually the drug prescribed, which blocks the stress hormones in your body from being received by the stress sensors in your brain. Since stress is what triggers BD symptoms, blocking the stress hormones acts to prevent symptoms from occurring. Lithium is used for both sides of the disorder--mania and depression.

 

yeah, I am totally back on the "he might be bipolar" bus. Especially since any kind of anxiety seems to fry him. Quickly too, and it can be really up or down. And it is getting worse.

[dreamingoftigers]

The point of seeing a dickhead as a dickhead, and not a patient or an animal with a specific genotype or environmental experiences, is it makes it easier for you to deal with them. When you spend time delving into why they are like they are, you are not spending time creating the right conditions for you. You are prevaricating, and evading the rather daunting task of changing your brain chemistry, the inner most part of you. There is always a selfish reason to everything we do, and when you accumulate days of research yet cannot bring yourself to spend a couple of hours changing the locks, that's yours.

 

I'm sure PolPot, Stalin and Hitler were all as much victims of circumstance as any troubled soul, and in the right circumstances could have been aided to less angry, less violent outlooks on life, but when the circumstances are not right for that, command and control of the situation is the only thing that will change the outcome.

 

As you know, dot, I've been on both sides of this particular coin to varying degrees and I know where you're at. All I can say is that the only way I know of making a material change to your destiny is to make material changes now.

 

It was more a statement about why I try to avoid judging people, not why we should go hug dictators and I won't boot out my friend. LOL

She did clean the pee floor. I told her to or it would be Strike One. That is actually pretty bold for me. On the bright side, she also did my dishes

[betterdeal]

It was more a statement about why I try to avoid judging people, not why we should go hug dictators and I won't boot out my friend. LOL

She did clean the pee floor. I told her to or it would be Strike One. That is actually pretty bold for me. On the bright side, she also did my dishes

 

Good for you for saying what you wanted from her - and it worked!

 

I wasn't trying to suggest you are into hugging dictators.

[dreamingoftigers]

Good for you for saying what you wanted from her - and it worked!

 

I wasn't trying to suggest you are into hugging dictators.

 

Here's the thing with me: I am ridiculously clear on what I want and expect from people. If anything I over-communicate (for proof of this, feel free to peruse my posting history).

 

It kind of works like this:

 

1. Sometimes when something greatly pisses me off I have a little trouble trying to articulate what it is I want to express. The first place I go is the childhood programming of "are you kidding me? what the Hell were you thinking, that was (you are) so stupid." "Oh just F off."(This only takes place in my head, even when I get really mad. The worst that tends to fall out is "are you kidding me?" with a nasty "are you really that stupid?" kind of tone. And it has to be a "hey you just trashed my place" kind of night.

 

2. Stage two involves me trying to identify what pissed me off and shove in into the appropriate sentence structure, plus checking my tone and not sounding condescending. At this point I think along the lines of "I feel (blank) when you (blank)." Pretty rudimentry. I NEVER use this.

 

3. As often as possible, I try to take _I_ out of my sentences as the subject. The behaviour needs to be addressed most often, not "I."

 

As well people who use "I" to start sentences more often can actually be seen in general to be more partisan or have a lower self-esteem. Allow me to illustrate:

 

"I feel upset that you haven't cleaned up the dog pee on the floor. I want you to do that (or "You need to do that.")

 

It sets the situation up for conflict, what you kind of say to the person is: If you don't do this, you are kind of a feeling-hurting Bastard, but if you do do this, you are kind of my bitch. It's also making it a bit of a you vs. me thing.

 

So I kind of flip it around:

 

"Seeing the dog pee not cleaned up is grossing me out. It needs to be taken care of right away."

 

See, now the dog pee is the problem, IT is the stimulus and the issue, not my feelings. The behaviour (or issue) comes first plus the way to solve the issue with a sense of urgency tacked on. Maybe even ending it with a positive "it would be really appreciated."

 

_I_ carries a lot of power, so does _you_. What I try to do is limit "I" and "you" To compliments and positives where they get the most payout.

 

i.e. "dinner was excellent" vs. "You made such a great meal"

"You are loved by me" vs "I love You"

 

i think that most people in our culture use the "I" and "you" for the negatives but are gun-shy on using them for positives, where they would be better received and more effective.

 

So in summation my two main obstacles are: articulating anger in a non-shaming way and enforcing the actual boundaries I do make when someone goes "yep, okay" and then does the exact opposite.

[betterdeal]

Hmm. Why do you feel the need to explain your request at all? I mean, most of the time, most people, are aware of certain conventions and lines of ownership. With the example you gave, a "Jo, can you clean up the dog piss." would be my first request.

 

To me, it's not that emotive an issue. I do this with one of my house mates quite often. He's forgetful and away a lot. Consequently, he'll leave milk in the fridge and it'll go off, for example. He's getting better, perhaps because every request is reasonable and a reminder that he has to clean up after himself.

 

If someone is consistently unable to keep their word, I don't rely on it. If I care about them, I will let them know it's okay to think about it and come back to me on it, so they don't feel pressured to say what they think I want to hear on the spot. I also let them know that if they can't keep it, to let me know and we'll work something out.

 

I abstract the problem that needs solving and see who does it as being a case of delegating to the best person for the job, rather than some statement about our interpersonal relationship, or me. The anger, or disgust, or whatever feeling is evoked is a sign that something's up, so I exclaim, gag, sigh, think "bollocks", take a breath then look for the solution and pass it on. It then becomes teamwork.

 

So maybe express the feeling, compose yourself, pass on the problem to its owner, offer ideas to help them prevent it happening again.

 

This is, to me, different from matters of the heart, in which case explaining how you feel and what causes that is often a great way to prevent miscommunication and all its ills.