What's it like to be married to a Bipolar person?

[RecordProducer]

RecordProducer- your portrayal of your ex about 3 posts back REALLY resonated with me. I about fell on the floor with recognition of these things through my own stbxw. It's like I was doing a checklist as I read through them, ticking them off (yes, yes, yes). Just...wow.

 

This has been a great, educational thread, btw.

I've learned SO much from this dialogue, even if I haven't participated hardly ever, but thank you all.

And thank you also for sliding in one more voice which confirms that the bundle of these traits exists in people, and they're not coincidentally mixed in a combination.

[betterdeal]

Sadly, there is no Goldilocks position in the middle where you can safely avoid triggering one fear or the other. After searching for that non-threatening midpoint solution for 15 years, I am firmly convinced that -- if it exists at all -- it is a knife edge that is continually shifting.

 

What most people who are like this are looking for is the unconditional love, support and understanding that a family member (normally of the opposite sex) would give them. That directly contradicts the necessarily conditional love that a successful romantic relationship has. You cannot be her brother and her lover at the same time.

 

All three people I know to have been diagnosed BPD are:

 

(a) women; and

(b) presented a real risk to life; and

© have problems expressing, honouring, processing some or all emotions; and

(d) have had very low self-esteem.

[Downtown]

What most people who are like this are looking for is the unconditional love, support and understanding that a family member (normally of the opposite sex) would give them. That directly contradicts the necessarily conditional love that a successful romantic relationship has. You cannot be her brother and her lover at the same time.

BetterDeal, you make an important distinction I did not address: that between conditional and unconditional love. I made the much simpler observation that, regardless of the type of love being shown, the BPDer will experience the intimacy as frightening and painful -- making her feel like she is evaporating into thin air and losing the little bit of self identity she has. She also will likely feel you are controlling and dominating her.

 

Hence, even if were possible for you to be her brother and lover at the same time, you still would hurt her when drawing closer. This is why trying to heal a BPDer by loving her is as futile as trying to heal a burn patient by hugging her. And, because abandonment is at the other end of the same spectrum containing engulfument, you will hurt her by drawing away from her. This means you lose no matter how close or far away you position yourself.

...one definition of the so-called "borderline personality disorder" is "the normal response of a sensitive person to an invalidating environment"

BetterDeal, I just ran across a post I wrote about you last April 30. Although nearly a year has transpired since then, I wouldn't change a word:

BetterDeal, I keep running into your posts on the threads I participate in -- those where a "Non" (typically, a codependent NonBPDer like me) is struggling to recover from a toxic relationship with a BPDer (i.e., person with strong BPD traits, either above or below the diagnostic level). After having read over a hundred of your posts, I just want to report that your insights into that disorder -- and what is required to extricate oneself from such a toxic relationship -- are articulate, compassionate, and downright amazing. Your posts are a treasure trove of valuable information.

 

That is nowhere more apparent than in the thread started by Zach (aka, WhatDoIDo), where your posts shine the brightest,

IMO

. Zach had barely gotten that long thread out the gates (April 5) before (on April 6) you nailed the BPD nature of the behavior he was describing. I was tickled to see, when another member jumped all over you for "using labels," you handled the incident with aplomb and then stayed the course with helping Zach. Because I was

so

blown away by what I saw you do in that thread, I took a look at the threads you started, ending up here in this thread -- where I read about the huge recovery you accomplished over the past year.

 

In case you are unaware of it, I want to say that the level of self awareness you have achieved is extraordinarily rare for anyone -- much less for someone struggling with issues you have had to overcome -- especially the difficulty you had for more than 30 years in being

so

uncomfortable with the strong mixed feelings that we all have to learn to live with. If I understand you correctly, you had to learn to overcome black-white thinking both on the outside (with respect to your ex's thinking) and inside (with respect to your difficulty tolerating your love/hate feelings toward your parents and others. Nobody knows better than you that we all are walking, talking bundles of mixed feelings toward everything and everyone. I applaud your remarkable accomplishment, BD.

[Downtown]

I have come to know, and been blessed with the knowledge that how much we loved someone need not be coupled with grief that is as intense as love. So there is hope for us, but it is intense and specialized therapy.

Dreaming, thanks so much for sharing some of your experiences with us so we can get a glimpse of what a BPDer is suffering from. Like BetterDeal, you have a remarkable level of self awareness, especially for a BPDer. Due to the wonders of the Internet, I've met and conversed with nearly a hundred self-aware BPDers like you on other forums.

 

In my private life, however, I've never knowingly met anyone like you because, when BPD traits are strong, such self awareness is rare. Moreover, even when the self awareness is present, the BPDers usually lack the ego strength to stay in therapy long enough to make a difference. I therefore would be surprised if as many as 1 in 100 BPDers are able to achieve what you've already accomplished.

[betterdeal]

RecordProducer, regarding your most recent post, I feel you misunderstand my position, and were making a pointed remark with that. I shall try to explain my position more clearly:

 

These behaviours, thoughts and feelings do exist in conjunction with each other and not by random chance. That is not what I have problems with. My bone of contention is with the diagnoses on several grounds namely:

 

The term "borderline" means on the borderline with schizophrenia or psychosis. It says more about the lack of understanding on the part of some individuals (let's call them "psychiatrists") than the other individuals (let's call them "patients") to whom they refer.

 

The 126 possible combinations that would land you with the label of "BPD" mean a lot of people will qualify for it. You will probably qualify for it on the wrong day with the wrong assessor.

 

It's a catch-all that depends too much on the assessors' personality, not fact. Nowadays, current thinking in healthcare is increasingly that if there is no significant risk to life a diagnosis is not necessary or even helpful.

 

It has been used to dismiss people, not help them. This compounds the problem. When the people who are paid to help consider you manipulative, difficult, evil even, beyond help, and dismiss your experiences, you experience further invalidation, which is by and large, the root of the problem for such troubled individuals.

 

A downward spiral begins. Seeking help results in more harm. dreamingoftigers had her child stolen by the state in part because of letting a state official know about her diagnosis. That creates more pressure, more shame, more invalidation. It's the equivalent of kicking a man in the kidneys when he's down. Her ability as a mother, her child's safety and development, were not found to be wanting: on the contrary, they were found to be exemplary. I have huge amounts of respect for dot, for being able to progress despite the maladaptive coping mechanisms of the system.

 

So what does one do if at every turn one is told their feelings, experiences, thoughts are wrong? If their fears are dismissed at key moments in their life when a simple "I know" would make the world of difference? Do it enough, tell someone they are wrong at a very fundamental level and they'll start thinking they are going crazy. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

My argument is more academic than personal, although (perhaps because) I have personal experience of it from both sides of the coin. It's about how we as societies behave.

 

I don't wish to undermine your experience with your ex. It was clearly a difficult relationship, and one you are still involved with today, two years on. It's a relief to discover there may well be fundamental issues in him that meant things went the way they did. It can help enormously in delineating between what's his and what's yours, what are his and your challenges. That in turn can help you focus on your own development and growth, and help you put to rest the shame / blame / guilt / anger vicious circles.

 

It not me - it's you!

 

Well, most probably it's a bit of both of you. And without that experience; without having met someone with those issues, who knows if you would ever have had the opportunity to discover yours? That's how I see it, anyway. Every fire is a lesson learnt.

 

The book I recommended to Zach - Lost in the mirror - is one I'd heartedly recommend to anyone interested in this subject. Rang chords in my mind apropos my ex's behaviour and my own also. As BPD describes something on a sliding scale, it may well do the same for you too.

 

Downtown, the knife-edge you described; I remember it well! Like a tiny ledge between two storms. Impossible for anyone to live on. And thanks for the reminder about that exchange with Zach. I wonder what he's up to these days? I may get in touch and see how things are.

Edited January 31, 2012 by betterdeal

[Shane Jimison]

Your husband is in serious problem. He needs an advise or treatment from doctor.