rajcs25 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I have been married earlier and then divorced. There is this girl that i am seeing now for some time and am serious with. Its an interesting situation now. Of course i am worried about it. Here is what is happening. Her father gave my parents her education degree certificates, her previous divorce decree. We told him we dont need to see it, he came to our home once and put it on table and ask us you can look at it whenever you get chance. We told him, we dont want to see it, we dont need it. Still he did it. He is asking me to submit my documents in addition to proof of my income to him. I have never had this kind of experience before. My parents are very much upset with this fact, that he should have trust by now and this is not the right way to submit yours and thereby forcefully ask other person to submit theirs. We showed him the documents. He now says after 30 days he wants us to submit those documents. I have no idea what on the earth is this? I am confused as to what to do. Folks, please provide advise, as to what should i do, Submit it or not submit it? Link to post Share on other sites
Philosoraptor Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 He seems insane and controlling. Have you talked to this girl about her father's request? He needs to see nothing as he is not part of this relationship. Link to post Share on other sites
KathyM Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I take it you're gf is from a culture that treats marriage like a business arrangement. If so, you may have to comply if you want to keep this girl, or her father may convince her to put a stop to this relationship. If this is not a part of your own culture, I suggest you give careful thought about what it would be like to be married to a woman whose family is so controlling over her life. Do you really want to have her parents call the shots in your relationship? It's not going to stop once you get married. Do you know why your gf's first marriage failed? I'm thinking her controlling parents might have something to do with it. Link to post Share on other sites
Afishwithabike Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I have been married earlier and then divorced. There is this girl that i am seeing now for some time and am serious with. Its an interesting situation now. Of course i am worried about it. Here is what is happening. Her father gave my parents her education degree certificates, her previous divorce decree. We told him we dont need to see it, he came to our home once and put it on table and ask us you can look at it whenever you get chance. We told him, we dont want to see it, we dont need it. Still he did it. He is asking me to submit my documents in addition to proof of my income to him. I have never had this kind of experience before. My parents are very much upset with this fact, that he should have trust by now and this is not the right way to submit yours and thereby forcefully ask other person to submit theirs. We showed him the documents. He now says after 30 days he wants us to submit those documents. I have no idea what on the earth is this? I am confused as to what to do. Folks, please provide advise, as to what should i do, Submit it or not submit it? The scenario you're describing sounds very different from the way most westerners meet and marry. What you're describing is very culture-specific. The question I have is this - are you part of this culture and aware of these practices? He sounds very controlling from my point of view but I don't know the norms of this culture so I'm coming at it from my own upbringing. I would not submit documents to him. What does your girlfriend (fiancee?) think of all this? Link to post Share on other sites
Author rajcs25 Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 You are correct, i live in United States and she lives in a foreign Country. I was born and raised there but i have lived here in United States since last 15 Years. In my family back home, we dont believe in seeing or asking for documents like these. However very few people in that culture do ask for these documents. So its not completely surprising. What is surprising is 'After looking at documents why ask for submitting'. Now in a way you are all right and that's how my parents think that we should not submit and they do whatever they like Looking from other perspective, this girl might not have had progressed in relationship talks with 10 other guys ahead of me, because of this reason or other and very likely document reason. Choice is in my hands, to be 11th guy or submit documents. I can be 11th guy and look for some other girl or i can submit documents and move forward. But the controlling part is what worries me What i am trying to understand is what would be the pleasure he would get in keeping my documents in his closet. Or is it just out of his ego that since he dropped his daughters' documents at our place without even us asking for it, he now wants ours in return. I am very confused over all of this. When everything is going fine between 2 of us, he is unnecessarily dragging it with this. Yes i like the girl. I like her because our thoughts are similar. When we talked and decided to proceed further she did mention that 'My dad will talk with you and if he agrees, then we will proceed' So talking with her now that too on phone will not change anything. She is not a type who will convince her dad as i know all the girls or at least most from this culture are of type when 'Dad' is role model before marriage and if they get good husband, he will be role model eventually. But this was something big i was asked, hence confused that is it wise to do it or not. Thanks for your advice guys Let me know what should be done He mentioned that its not about mistrust, rather it is to increase the trust to infallible level. I have no idea why he told that.. Link to post Share on other sites
Author rajcs25 Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 I wont be surprised if her father convinces her to put an end if i dont submit documents. And i wont be surprised if she follows him as well. I just hope all those things dont happen and he gets some sense of 'others also have brains and heart'. Yeah it sucks, its insane, but thats how it is in some cultures and with lots of girls in those cultures. It just adds to my frustration as i have repeatitive experiences dealing with this type of girls... I take it you're gf is from a culture that treats marriage like a business arrangement. If so, you may have to comply if you want to keep this girl, or her father may convince her to put a stop to this relationship. If this is not a part of your own culture, I suggest you give careful thought about what it would be like to be married to a woman whose family is so controlling over her life. Do you really want to have her parents call the shots in your relationship? It's not going to stop once you get married. Do you know why your gf's first marriage failed? I'm thinking her controlling parents might have something to do with it. Link to post Share on other sites
Author rajcs25 Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 Are there any good words that i can tell him that how we feel its forceful on his part to ask like this. Any appropriate words that i could use to make him realize that we know that just because he jumps in the well and asks us 'now you jump', does not mean that we have to. anyone getting any polite better words for this? Link to post Share on other sites
Dust Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I don't submit documents to girl's fathers. In fact I'll go kick ass and take his daughter if I want her that bad. Link to post Share on other sites
Afishwithabike Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Part of me wants to ask what culture this is but I understand if you don't want to share that information. Maybe you could tell us what part of the world, without giving the specific country. If he showed you her divorce decree then she's no blushing virgin so the father's actions seem even more controlling because he's not trying to protect his daughter's virginity from an unscrupulous man. Perhaps he feels his daughter was taken advantage of in her previous marriage and wants to be sure that you're who you say you are. He wants to be sure that you have the income to take care of her. He wants to make sure you're really divorced and free to marry. He doesn't want to just look at the documents. He wants to have the documents so that he can verify it and do his own background check. You have nothing to hide, right? You could "submit" the documents to him. It's up to you. How badly do you want to marry this woman? Can you walk away from her over this? The father isn't asking for anything but several pieces of paper. I find all of it very controlling and I wouldn't do it. I only show my proof of income to the local tax office. Why do you want to marry such a woman? Are you sure you would be happy in the long run with someone with those characteristics especially if you've spent a lot of time in the West since the age of 15. Link to post Share on other sites
KathyM Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Are there any good words that i can tell him that how we feel its forceful on his part to ask like this. Any appropriate words that i could use to make him realize that we know that just because he jumps in the well and asks us 'now you jump', does not mean that we have to. anyone getting any polite better words for this? Don't bother with trying to figure out a way to not comply with this--it won't matter how you say it. If you don't do it, he will consider that defiance and lack of respect towards him. You've already shown him the documents. Why hold out on giving him a copy at this point? If you want the girl, give him the documents. That's their culture and their own family requirements. Most likely, the girl will go along with what her father says, and will probably leave you if you don't comply with this. But like I said, you may want to think twice about marrying someone with such a controlling father as that. Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 If you give any documents I would black out or redact any personal identifying information concerning your ex-wife.. like her name or her property address.. I don't personally feel that he should know who or how to contact your ex-wife and you should really protect her identity. As far as the rest.. I wouldn't do it.. but I'm American and my Religious beliefs are not of that culture. I will say though that in the county I live in all current court documents for the last 10+ years or so are online for anyone to view... Link to post Share on other sites
Author rajcs25 Posted January 28, 2012 Author Share Posted January 28, 2012 Its 'India' And This gentlemen is 'CPA' over there. Part of me wants to ask what culture this is but I understand if you don't want to share that information. Maybe you could tell us what part of the world, without giving the specific country. If he showed you her divorce decree then she's no blushing virgin so the father's actions seem even more controlling because he's not trying to protect his daughter's virginity from an unscrupulous man. Perhaps he feels his daughter was taken advantage of in her previous marriage and wants to be sure that you're who you say you are. He wants to be sure that you have the income to take care of her. He wants to make sure you're really divorced and free to marry. He doesn't want to just look at the documents. He wants to have the documents so that he can verify it and do his own background check. You have nothing to hide, right? You could "submit" the documents to him. It's up to you. How badly do you want to marry this woman? Can you walk away from her over this? The father isn't asking for anything but several pieces of paper. I find all of it very controlling and I wouldn't do it. I only show my proof of income to the local tax office. Why do you want to marry such a woman? Are you sure you would be happy in the long run with someone with those characteristics especially if you've spent a lot of time in the West since the age of 15. Link to post Share on other sites
Afishwithabike Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 CPA like an accountant or does CPA mean something different there? Based on the responses given so far, how do you feel about submitting the documents to him? Link to post Share on other sites
Author rajcs25 Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 CPA Like an accountant Another thing happened now. Her sister with her sister's husband is visiting her for few days since last week. This submission of documents thing only came in picture after her sister went there. I did talk with her sister and she told me 'Congratulations' and i talked with her very nicely, but no idea what came into their mind last monday that out of the blue i got email to submit these documents from her father Thereafter girl was talking with me just fine over SMS/Phone. However yesterday she told me that her sister is telling her that 'She is not spending enough time with her' and her tone was different This morning she sends me a SMS saying its going to be extremely difficult to talk until her sister has left which is after next Thursday. Now is it her sister who is culprit. Part of me has that doubt as her dad when we decided to proceed further did not ask for documents to submit, just saw them. Now when her sister is visiting with her better half, all this drama has started. Her sister is 3 years younger than her. If her sister would have had brains she would have thought well of her as she is married and settled with her husband visiting along with her and she has another brother and parents everyone to talk too Or This is all a story and perhaps her dad might have asked her to use this as a reason to reduce the communication until documents are submitted I am feeling like whole bunch of people in family is controlling except her mom. She is very nice lady. Is it good for me to get into this? Or try to be courageous and find a new person with whom i can have a better life? CPA like an accountant or does CPA mean something different there? Based on the responses given so far, how do you feel about submitting the documents to him? Link to post Share on other sites
Afishwithabike Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 This is your second marriage so if you don't want to end up in a third marriage, pick carefully. Even when things look good on paper, it's ultimately the personality traits of each that can make or break a marriage. If you want someone who can assert herself then find such a woman. If we go with what you think happened, the sister came to visit you, she saw something that made her doubt your credentials, she told the father, the father asked for your documents. Could you be overanalyzing the sister's visit and attributing ulterior motives to her? Link to post Share on other sites
Author rajcs25 Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 I have never met her sister in person. She is the only family member of her family that i have never met. Everything between us and between me and her father was very smooth until her sister visited Yeah for me, my heart is hurt and i hate her sister right now because it started after she came and the SMS Situation in which she has now stopped communicating via SMS as much has lot to do with her sister... As a person she is a good person. But how will i clear all these roadblocks. She did send me couple of SMS one yestereday and one today, but i have feeling she might have sent that without knowledge of her sister/father. However she did not respond to some of my SMS today.. Its complicated. I have been hurt before, once in marriage and once in a thing which did not lead to marriage. I am tired of this now. I have no idea what to do.. If girl is good and everything was good between us, why did her sister/father have to derail the train which was running perfectly fine.. This is your second marriage so if you don't want to end up in a third marriage, pick carefully. Even when things look good on paper, it's ultimately the personality traits of each that can make or break a marriage. If you want someone who can assert herself then find such a woman. If we go with what you think happened, the sister came to visit you, she saw something that made her doubt your credentials, she told the father, the father asked for your documents. Could you be overanalyzing the sister's visit and attributing ulterior motives to her? Link to post Share on other sites
Afishwithabike Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I misread your earlier post. Her sister visited your fiancee not you. Ok, got it. You have two options. Give the father the documents as he asked. He has already seen them so having them in possession is nothing new. The second option is not to give the documents and see what their reaction is to your refusal. Link to post Share on other sites
Author rajcs25 Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 I am ready to give my education and earnings document. I am not ready for giving divorce document Any other ideas? I misread your earlier post. Her sister visited your fiancee not you. Ok, got it. You have two options. Give the father the documents as he asked. He has already seen them so having them in possession is nothing new. The second option is not to give the documents and see what their reaction is to your refusal. Link to post Share on other sites
She's_NotInLove_w/Me Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I am ready to give my education and earnings document. I am not ready for giving divorce document Any other ideas? Raj, this is not as big of a deal as most of us American people would feel it to be. In my opinion, it comes down to how much you want to be with the girl. In your culture you are likely marrying the whole family, not just the girl. Honestly, do you have anything to hide in regards to the divorce documents? Link to post Share on other sites
Afishwithabike Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Yes, I was wondering why you wouldn't show the divorce decree. In the same situation, I would probably not show my pay information but I would show my education information and divorce document. Where I live, the divorces are no-fault meaning the divorce document doesn't specify the reason for the divorce (abuse, cheating, etc.) I don't know how divorces are done in India. Perhaps reasons for the divorce are specified in the divorce document. Is there something in the divorce document you don't want the father to see? Are you afraid he might contact your former wife for more information about your first marriage? If you don't want him to contact your ex-wife you could make a copy of the divorce document and black out her name. Link to post Share on other sites
Author rajcs25 Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 Yes i dont want them to contact ex. Its no brainer ex-girl or her family will not speak good about me and same thing with us. In fact i am kind enough, once someone came to me asking about my ex and i told 'I dont want to comment'. But my ex or her family would have a great meal that day if someone goes to them by telling them whole bunch of things which never happened about me Ok, what if this happens, of course the new girl or her family should have brains to look at me and judge me by how much they know me. But ex could tell any weirdest things in the world. I just dont want the new girl or her family to have those crazy things in their subconscious. If someone goes and tells weird things after i get married, its not a problem, as then they see who i am every day, if we are living together, i know i am a very nice person hence they will see good things But i simply do not want to take any chance to get the waters muddy before i get married... Another thing i am looking for it logic behind keeping documents at their place Now if everyone started asking for keeping documents in possession and if his daugters' ex person started circulating papers with his daughters' name to 10 different people, how will he feel??????????????????? When we go to notarize a document, the notary person sees the document and notarizes, even notary person does not ask to keep a copy with him or her.. Keeping a copy of son-in-law's divorce document is ridiculous I would rather agree on something like, i can provide my future wife a copy of the document right before we are getting married if its purely trust or ego issue. But why to her father??????????????????? Lets say i give documents, but i need to understand logic and be ok about it before i take that step Let me know your thoughts folks... Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 If you are going to give him the documents and feel uncomfortable about releasing third party info (your ex's).. by the way..I would feel that way.. Then just redact (remove, mark out) her personal contact info on the copies you give to him. There is no reason he should be contacting her and if his concerns are that you are in fact divorced then it will be enough. Only remove identifying info protecting her, he may also want to know you have no kids or how many.. etc etc.. and if you have other financial ties to her still. Link to post Share on other sites
Author rajcs25 Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 I can try to tell him on the phone after getting logic that i can remove the ex info and give it. What if he says that i gave you the documents with ex info What do i say then? We never asked and never wanted those documents, he came and left it on the table in living room. It was a ridiculous behavior he did. I dont know if the girl even knows about this or not. But her communication has stopped with me citing reasons of her sister being at her place for now. She said it will be difficult to talk until then I dont want to appear needy hence i have also not called her since i was told this on a message by her. What should i do.. If you are going to give him the documents and feel uncomfortable about releasing third party info (your ex's).. by the way..I would feel that way.. Then just redact (remove, mark out) her personal contact info on the copies you give to him. There is no reason he should be contacting her and if his concerns are that you are in fact divorced then it will be enough. Only remove identifying info protecting her, he may also want to know you have no kids or how many.. etc etc.. and if you have other financial ties to her still. Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 What if he says that i gave you the documents with ex info What do i say then? You're a big boy... don't do anything that makes you feel so uncomfortable that don't know what to do.. In other words, if you feel uncomfortable about his seemingly unreasonable request then tell him NO... Just be prepared to accept any and all fallout from your decision.. and that might include no marriage to his daughter. What kind of marriage will it be anyhow if her father creates this kind of drama over not seeing but having possession of your divorce papers ? I vote you stand your ground on what you feel is right.. Link to post Share on other sites
Author rajcs25 Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 Everything was going on track. We thought we were perfect for each other First the father asked for documents Now she is not even talking with me. Today is the day her sister has left, still no SMS from her. Should i wait for her to send me SMS, or should i start With regards to her father, me and my family are going to ask him logic behind him asking for having divorce documents in his possession. You're a big boy... don't do anything that makes you feel so uncomfortable that don't know what to do.. In other words, if you feel uncomfortable about his seemingly unreasonable request then tell him NO... Just be prepared to accept any and all fallout from your decision.. and that might include no marriage to his daughter. What kind of marriage will it be anyhow if her father creates this kind of drama over not seeing but having possession of your divorce papers ? I vote you stand your ground on what you feel is right.. Link to post Share on other sites
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