Fear Of Affairs And The Other Side

[Elizabeth Southerns]

 

One thing I would advise betrayed spouses, other men/women and even wayward spouses is that if someone's behavior seems to go beyond "normal hurt" behavior when an affair ends, get some outside help ( legal, if possible). Not only to protect yourself, but also for them. I don't think this type of behavior occurs very often, but when it does, the person doing so may not even fully realize what they are doing, and may be hurting a lot...maybe they need a "push" to realize things are out of control and they need help.

In the end, yu are not only helping yourself, but them as well.

 

I agree with this. Especially if their are kids involved.

[Elizabeth Southerns]

 

To the OM/OW: Do/Did you fear the BS in any way? Is/Was this individual a threat to you or the relationship that you and your AP is/was engaged in?

 

We were afraid of what she might do to herself, or to the kids.

[seren]

I have never feared the OW, TBH I feared myself more. The rational part of me knew that my anger should be directed toward my H, the irrational part was so dammed angry that someone I didn't know had knowingly taken part in my hurt that I feared I would confront her furthermore that I would change my world view. I didn't fear the OW personally in so much as the thought that my H would leave or harboured any feelings toward her, but I feared the idea of another, if that makes any sense.

 

I helped her to escape her abusive husband when he found out, not by me telling him, and TBH I felt empathy toward her and it helped me to fix her as just another person trying to get through life as best as she could. I knew what me and H had was nothing like what the A was, it didn't make it right, but when I understood the dynamics, it made a weird sort of sense.

 

Since the A and even now some 4 and a half years after D Day she continues to track me down and make odd calls. I don't fear that, but I am annoyed that she just cannot let go. The time she called to pretend she was from the military and told me that H was dead made me fear that she her anger was boiling over. But, my rational head said that she hadn't really thought about it - or maybe I am just too forgiving, who knows.

 

I know that had H intended to leave or if it had felt more like there had been any competition (sorry cannot think of a better word) then I might have felt differently, maybe I would have had to fight for my man, but I didn't and so there was no fear of her in her role, as such. I mainly feared we wouldn't make it and that I woudn't be able to get past what H had done, but as it has turned out I had nothing to fear.

[SoMovinOn]

SMO- I would not call your concern for your gf's well-being fear either.

 

Just out of curiosity, do you guys have a plan in place, because by what you said here has me concerned...you know, I hope she makes a move soon, as this would have me unnerved continuously.

 

Yes. I have several safe places for her to stay, everything from very close to home, to other states very far from here. I have clothes and all the essentials she'd need. Financially she's fine, but there is also a stash with a sizable amount of cash.

[frozensprouts]

God, FS! You went through some awful business with her! I know it must have had such a damaging effect on you guys at the time, but the problem, ultimately, is hers. She will continue to be this way and whilst you and your H do have pieces left to fix after the A, at least you don't have to deal with her cr@p anymore.

 

 

what i have never been able to get my head around is why she fixated on me and my children.

I could understand if she was directing her anger/hurt at my husband ( maybe, in an indirect way, she is) but really, I did nothing to her. If I saw her, I ignored her, as what would the point be in opening that whole thing all over again... I thought it best to leave it alone so we both could move on.

 

The only real actual verbal "contact" I ever had with her before I found out about the affair was when they were still at the "emotional affair" stage. They would spend a lot of time chatting on facebook, and she added me as a facebook friend, which seemed kind of strange as i didn't know her. One night when i couldn't sleep i was using facebook and she came on and started chatting with me, asking me about myself, my kids, my husband, etc. She went on to tell me about herself and her life. I chatted with her for a while, and answered some questions. Turned out she used my answers to run me down to my husband ( i didn't see that until it was too late...why he ever listened to her I'll never know)

 

The weird thing is that she seemed so "normal"...there was little hint, at first, as to the way she'd become. I know I am in no position to try and evaluate why she acted the way she did, but to try and understand her actions ( I thought it would help me deal with her in a way that would be best for everyone)I did some research, and she really does seem to fit the definition of someone with a histrionic personality ( again, I am not in any position to say for sure, but if I am right, it would explain a lot). If it is what is at the root of her issues, then , in a weird way, my ignoring her didn't help, as it just made things worse...she wanted a reaction. Getting legal help was the best thing, as she got a reaction from me. The sad thing is that a lot of people with a histrionic personality have had terrible childhood traumas ( one of the things she did say when she was chatting with me on facebook was that she was abused as a child), and i feel bad for her... I would never wish that on anyone.

[18Years2Late]

Yes. I have several safe places for her to stay, everything from very close to home, to other states very far from here. I have clothes and all the essentials she'd need. Financially she's fine, but there is also a stash with a sizable amount of cash.

 

Then WTH is she waiting for?...I can't remember are there children involved?...if not...she must b extra afraid of him and think he'll find her no matter where...that is scary...for her nor you per se...but if that's the case I'd say u may b in a little danger as well if she ever leaves...

[MissBee]

Then WTH is she waiting for?...I can't remember are there children involved?...if not...she must b extra afraid of him and think he'll find her no matter where...that is scary...for her nor you per se...but if that's the case I'd say u may b in a little danger as well if she ever leaves...

 

I'm genuinely curious about that as well. I do understand those who have kept abuse a secret from everyone and have been isolated and also have kids and little means of support, why they would suffer with their abuser. But if one can manage to have a boyfriend, who has plans for you and places for you to stay, near or far and your finances are fine and you have no kids....what incentive do you have to stay? How is it not easier to run away with your boyfriend, get a divorce and a restraining order versus secretly having an affair under your abuser's roof? Well I do understand SMO is not free himself...maybe if he were single the running off plan would work...but he has to stick around to help out his wife too, from what I gather, so perhaps that impedes things as well.

[frozensprouts]

I'm genuinely curious about that as well. I do understand those who have kept abuse a secret from everyone and have been isolated and also have kids and little means of support, why they would suffer with their abuser. But if one can manage to have a boyfriend, who has plans for you and places for you to stay, near or far and your finances are fine and you have no kids....what incentive do you have to stay? How is it not easier to run away with your boyfriend, get a divorce and a restraining order versus secretly having an affair under your abuser's roof? Well I do understand SMO is not free himself...maybe if he were single the running off plan would work...but he has to stick around to help out his wife too, from what I gather, so perhaps that impedes things as well.

 

 

I know it sounds mean of me to say it, but, in a way, the affair is allowing this woman to stay in her abusive marriage. The affair gives her moments of escape which perhaps allow her just enough of a "breather" to allow her to stay with her her abuser and tolerate his actions.

 

Is this really helping her or not? Is she okay staying with her abuser as long as she has her moments of escape, or would she be better off leaving all together? Does the affair allow her an "excuse" to stay ( not the right wording, I know, but I don't know a better one) with her abuser ( it's okay being married to and living with a guy who treats me like crud as long as i have a few great minutes with my affair partner)?

 

I guess the only one that can answer that is herself.

[MissBee]

I know it sounds mean of me to say it, but, in a way, the affair is allowing this woman to stay in her abusive marriage. The affair gives her moments of escape which perhaps allow her just enough of a "breather" to allow her to stay with her her abuser and tolerate his actions.

 

Is this really helping her or not? Is she okay staying with her abuser as long as she has her moments of escape, or would she be better off leaving all together? Does the affair allow her an "excuse" to stay ( not the right wording, I know, but I don't know a better one) with her abuser ( it's okay being married to and living with a guy who treats me like crud as long as i have a few great minutes with my affair partner)?

 

I guess the only one that can answer that is herself.

 

It's not mean, it's a critical question and concern, that others have posed as well. It does seem a very strange situation the more I hear. Normally, something is confusing upon first blush, then with added details the kinks unravel and it makes sense, but with this, my response was just like 18Years2Late's...I was like wow okay, in light of that, then why in heaven's name does it seem like no concrete plan or date to leave the situation exist?!

 

I mean, I don't think SMO will agree, and most who play some enabling role don't usually see their role as harmful/unproductive...as usually it is a symbiotic relationship in which the enabler and enabled gain something from each other by that dynamic.

[18Years2Late]

I totally agree with both of u MB and FS...I mean if my xMM would have done 1/2 of that for me...it would have been a done deal...now I'm glad with my shyte colored glasses that didn't happen but still..

 

If I remember SMO's story correctly her H is more of a verbal emotional abuser...but the fear that it could turn physical is there...and if so...the revelation of an OM could certainly seal that deal...so again...why doesn't she run with everything SMO has offered...even if SMO is not quite ready?...I do think she has a kid though...if my memory serves me correctly...now if the kid is exposed to the abuse...she's crazy to stay...but everyone has a story...

[Spark1111]

what i have never been able to get my head around is why she fixated on me and my children.

I could understand if she was directing her anger/hurt at my husband ( maybe, in an indirect way, she is) but really, I did nothing to her. If I saw her, I ignored her, as what would the point be in opening that whole thing all over again... I thought it best to leave it alone so we both could move on.

 

The only real actual verbal "contact" I ever had with her before I found out about the affair was when they were still at the "emotional affair" stage. They would spend a lot of time chatting on facebook, and she added me as a facebook friend, which seemed kind of strange as i didn't know her. One night when i couldn't sleep i was using facebook and she came on and started chatting with me, asking me about myself, my kids, my husband, etc. She went on to tell me about herself and her life. I chatted with her for a while, and answered some questions. Turned out she used my answers to run me down to my husband ( i didn't see that until it was too late...why he ever listened to her I'll never know)

 

The weird thing is that she seemed so "normal"...there was little hint, at first, as to the way she'd become. I know I am in no position to try and evaluate why she acted the way she did, but to try and understand her actions ( I thought it would help me deal with her in a way that would be best for everyone)I did some research, and she really does seem to fit the definition of someone with a histrionic personality ( again, I am not in any position to say for sure, but if I am right, it would explain a lot). If it is what is at the root of her issues, then , in a weird way, my ignoring her didn't help, as it just made things worse...she wanted a reaction. Getting legal help was the best thing, as she got a reaction from me. The sad thing is that a lot of people with a histrionic personality have had terrible childhood traumas ( one of the things she did say when she was chatting with me on facebook was that she was abused as a child), and i feel bad for her... I would never wish that on anyone.

 

Histrionic personality?????

 

Seems normal, even reserved, in her everyday life????

 

Smolders with drama and anger and over-the-top emotions underneath her controlled surface facade that boils over into.....histrionics when scratched????

 

Was she abandoned by daddy at an early age and then marries a difficult, damaged man who she transforms into a semblance of success but he is abusive and uncaring below the surface....like daddy....and he dumps(abandons) her too????

 

She becomes obssessed with your depressed, mid-life crisising man, and is determined that her love will transform him into his TRUE potential? Is she insanely jealous of you and your marriage and the life you two share? That if she can snare him, she would be the better steward of this man and her life could be transformed into your life????? As if the man can save her from her lonely life and transform it????

 

Does she try to befriend you to garner your confidence and how-to? Does she think if she does this she has an advantage over you? Does she go out of her way to befriend you? Garner your sympathy? While she plots to be the better woman to your man so she can have your life? Your stabily, your family life, your popularity and stability and she thinks your man is her ticket to happiness?

 

FS, did we have the same OW? We could have. Did she become irrationaly angry at you, not him, after DDAY? As if you thwarted her chance at happiness and stability?

 

Histrionic, yep. Lots of drama, subtefuge, excessive obssession with the wife(competition) anger, vindictiveness.

[SoMovinOn]

It's not mean, it's a critical question and concern, that others have posed as well. It does seem a very strange situation the more I hear. Normally, something is confusing upon first blush, then with added details the kinks unravel and it makes sense, but with this, my response was just like 18Years2Late's...I was like wow okay, in light of that, then why in heaven's name does it seem like no concrete plan or date to leave the situation exist?!

 

I mean, I don't think SMO will agree, and most who play some enabling role don't usually see their role as harmful/unproductive...as usually it is a symbiotic relationship in which the enabler and enabled gain something from each other by that dynamic.

 

No kids.

 

18, Frozen, B ... first of all, I can assure you, I've asked and pondered these same questions. There's a whole lot of psychology that goes into what would seem an obvious and easy answer. On the most basic level, most times, she just doesn't see him as that bad or as a threat. She's spent a lot of years making excuses for his behavior and finding ways to be "OK" with it. As this is her second abusive R, in her mind, this is just the way R's are.

 

Most times, since the abuse is primarily emotional, she doesn't perceive him as a threat.

 

Some of it is she just plain doesn't believe she *can* leave.

 

Some of it is just dumb stuff ... a desire to keep the life she has. She would like to keep certain things, or keep them the same. Very dangerous thinking for an abuse victim.

 

Am I enabling her? Making it easier for her to stay with him? ... I assure you, I have considered this as a very likely possibility. Perhaps my R with her makes her M more tolerable. Perhaps if I told her I wouldn't be involved with her until she left & got D, she'd be more motivated to make a move. I struggle with this one because it feels like breaking it off with her for that reason would be manipulative.

 

Does our A present a greater risk of him escalating to very physical violence? Most assuredly. Something else I struggle with.

 

Is the fact that I'm still M to my STBXW a factor? Definitely. GF can never feel she truly has me, she can truly rely on me to be there any time she needs me, knowing I have an obligation to my W. I am focusing a lot of my attention on helping my W get better (alcohol rehab, psychological counseling...) ... and GF definitely has concerns my W will "get better", and I'll decide we can have the M we used to have, and decide to stay with her.

 

And... I enable both of them, with the thinking that I'd like to give each of them the time and opportunity to make their own choices, do things on their own ...

 

So, we're both in screwed up situations, then we throw an A on top of it, which may very well be doing more to keep us in those situations (by allowing us both an "escape from reality").

 

All things I think about, GF and I talk about ... as well as other factors not even touched on here.

[pureinheart]

No kids.

 

18, Frozen, B ... first of all, I can assure you, I've asked and pondered these same questions. There's a whole lot of psychology that goes into what would seem an obvious and easy answer. On the most basic level, most times, she just doesn't see him as that bad or as a threat. She's spent a lot of years making excuses for his behavior and finding ways to be "OK" with it. As this is her second abusive R, in her mind, this is just the way R's are.

 

Most times, since the abuse is primarily emotional, she doesn't perceive him as a threat.

 

Some of it is she just plain doesn't believe she *can* leave.

 

Some of it is just dumb stuff ... a desire to keep the life she has. She would like to keep certain things, or keep them the same. Very dangerous thinking for an abuse victim.

 

Am I enabling her? Making it easier for her to stay with him? ... I assure you, I have considered this as a very likely possibility. Perhaps my R with her makes her M more tolerable. Perhaps if I told her I wouldn't be involved with her until she left & got D, she'd be more motivated to make a move. I struggle with this one because it feels like breaking it off with her for that reason would be manipulative.

 

Does our A present a greater risk of him escalating to very physical violence? Most assuredly. Something else I struggle with.

 

Is the fact that I'm still M to my STBXW a factor? Definitely. GF can never feel she truly has me, she can truly rely on me to be there any time she needs me, knowing I have an obligation to my W. I am focusing a lot of my attention on helping my W get better (alcohol rehab, psychological counseling...) ... and GF definitely has concerns my W will "get better", and I'll decide we can have the M we used to have, and decide to stay with her.

 

And... I enable both of them, with the thinking that I'd like to give each of them the time and opportunity to make their own choices, do things on their own ...

 

So, we're both in screwed up situations, then we throw an A on top of it, which may very well be doing more to keep us in those situations (by allowing us both an "escape from reality").

 

All things I think about, GF and I talk about ... as well as other factors not even touched on here.

 

SMO- just out of curiosity, have you ever read about "Traumatic or Hysterical Bonding"? It just sounds to me like this is what could be going on...

[pureinheart]

I have never feared the OW, TBH I feared myself more. The rational part of me knew that my anger should be directed toward my H, the irrational part was so dammed angry that someone I didn't know had knowingly taken part in my hurt that I feared I would confront her furthermore that I would change my world view. I didn't fear the OW personally in so much as the thought that my H would leave or harboured any feelings toward her, but I feared the idea of another, if that makes any sense.

 

I helped her to escape her abusive husband when he found out, not by me telling him, and TBH I felt empathy toward her and it helped me to fix her as just another person trying to get through life as best as she could. I knew what me and H had was nothing like what the A was, it didn't make it right, but when I understood the dynamics, it made a weird sort of sense.

 

Since the A and even now some 4 and a half years after D Day she continues to track me down and make odd calls. I don't fear that, but I am annoyed that she just cannot let go. The time she called to pretend she was from the military and told me that H was dead made me fear that she her anger was boiling over. But, my rational head said that she hadn't really thought about it - or maybe I am just too forgiving, who knows.

 

I know that had H intended to leave or if it had felt more like there had been any competition (sorry cannot think of a better word) then I might have felt differently, maybe I would have had to fight for my man, but I didn't and so there was no fear of her in her role, as such. I mainly feared we wouldn't make it and that I woudn't be able to get past what H had done, but as it has turned out I had nothing to fear.

 

Seren, this is weird...I understand you letting it go though. I let a lot go and though some harassment continued a couple years after, it did eventually go away.

 

Trying to disguise herself saying your H dead, that is cruel IMO... I'm really sorry that happened to you

[pureinheart]

Like my stand on NC with the BS, it stands the same the other way around. I would rarely ever advise communication with AP. I just don't think it's a good idea either way...

[frozensprouts]

Histrionic personality?????

 

Seems normal, even reserved, in her everyday life????

 

Smolders with drama and anger and over-the-top emotions underneath her controlled surface facade that boils over into.....histrionics when scratched????

 

Was she abandoned by daddy at an early age and then marries a difficult, damaged man who she transforms into a semblance of success but he is abusive and uncaring below the surface....like daddy....and he dumps(abandons) her too????

 

She becomes obssessed with your depressed, mid-life crisising man, and is determined that her love will transform him into his TRUE potential? Is she insanely jealous of you and your marriage and the life you two share? That if she can snare him, she would be the better steward of this man and her life could be transformed into your life????? As if the man can save her from her lonely life and transform it????

 

Does she try to befriend you to garner your confidence and how-to? Does she think if she does this she has an advantage over you? Does she go out of her way to befriend you? Garner your sympathy? While she plots to be the better woman to your man so she can have your life? Your stabily, your family life, your popularity and stability and she thinks your man is her ticket to happiness?

 

FS, did we have the same OW? We could have. Did she become irrationaly angry at you, not him, after DDAY? As if you thwarted her chance at happiness and stability?

 

Histrionic, yep. Lots of drama, subtefuge, excessive obssession with the wife(competition) anger, vindictiveness.

 

http://psychology.about.com/od/personalitydisorders/a/histrionic.htm

 

that is her exactly ( all except the married part.. I'm not sure, bit I don't know that she was ever married, but maybe she was)...

 

I don't know what it is about married guys for her. Heck, we live on an army base, single guys are very plentiful,and I'm sure there's be one who would be happy to be in a relationship with her.

Edited January 31, 2012 by frozensprouts

[Spark1111]

http://psychology.about.com/od/personalitydisorders/a/histrionic.htm

 

that is her exactly ( all except the married part.. I'm not sure, bit I don't know that she was ever married, but maybe she was)...

 

I don't know what it is about married guys for her. Heck, we live on an army base, single guys are very plentiful,and I'm sure there's be one who would be happy to be in a relationship with her.

 

Dating a single guy isn't as much fun because it doesn't have have as much drama!

 

Plus, there isn't the competitive aspect and that is what truly empowers! These affairs are less about love or sex, although sex is used to manipulate, as it is about empowering oneself in the winning away of a MM.

 

Spidey women I call them. And they are out there.

[donnamaybe]

Dating a single guy isn't as much fun because it doesn't have have as much drama!

 

Plus, there isn't the competitive aspect and that is what truly empowers! These affairs are less about love or sex, although sex is used to manipulate, as it is about empowering oneself in the winning away of a MM.

 

Spidey women I call them. And they are out there.

There has to be something seriously psychologically wrong with someone who targets married people like that. Hard to comprehend.

[nofool4u]

To the BS: Do/Did you fear the OM/OW in any way?

 

Nope. I simply didn't want anything to do with him and had no desire to confront him. He was about to be thrust into his own special kind of hell. Living with my X.

 

I did confront him face to face to let him know I'm not intimidated because he contacted me because he didn't like what I was saying about his soon-to-be-cheating girlfriend.

 

 

Is/Was this individual a threat to you or the relationship that your WS is/was engaged in?

 

Well obviously they are a threat if they are boning your spouse, no? Even if the affair ends, the relationship was threatened and, IMO, will continue to be from that point on.

[nofool4u]

There has to be something seriously psychologically wrong with someone who targets married people like that. Hard to comprehend.

 

There is a guy like that in my small town. He made the mistake of sleeping with the wrong guy's wife. Now, not that I condone physical violence in any way, but this guy got the beatdown of his life.

 

Of course he had charges brought against him, but I play poker with the arresting cop. He told the guy that the husband was arrested because it was the law, but he played with fire and got burned. He also told the guy that maybe next time rather than arresting the husband, it just might be a case of trespassing, basically giving him the hint.

[MissBee]

No kids.

 

18, Frozen, B ... first of all, I can assure you, I've asked and pondered these same questions. There's a whole lot of psychology that goes into what would seem an obvious and easy answer. On the most basic level, most times, she just doesn't see him as that bad or as a threat. She's spent a lot of years making excuses for his behavior and finding ways to be "OK" with it. As this is her second abusive R, in her mind, this is just the way R's are.

 

Most times, since the abuse is primarily emotional, she doesn't perceive him as a threat.

 

Some of it is she just plain doesn't believe she *can* leave.

 

Some of it is just dumb stuff ... a desire to keep the life she has. She would like to keep certain things, or keep them the same. Very dangerous thinking for an abuse victim.

 

Am I enabling her? Making it easier for her to stay with him? ... I assure you, I have considered this as a very likely possibility. Perhaps my R with her makes her M more tolerable. Perhaps if I told her I wouldn't be involved with her until she left & got D, she'd be more motivated to make a move. I struggle with this one because it feels like breaking it off with her for that reason would be manipulative.

 

Does our A present a greater risk of him escalating to very physical violence? Most assuredly. Something else I struggle with.

 

Is the fact that I'm still M to my STBXW a factor? Definitely. GF can never feel she truly has me, she can truly rely on me to be there any time she needs me, knowing I have an obligation to my W. I am focusing a lot of my attention on helping my W get better (alcohol rehab, psychological counseling...) ... and GF definitely has concerns my W will "get better", and I'll decide we can have the M we used to have, and decide to stay with her.

 

And... I enable both of them, with the thinking that I'd like to give each of them the time and opportunity to make their own choices, do things on their own ...

 

So, we're both in screwed up situations, then we throw an A on top of it, which may very well be doing more to keep us in those situations (by allowing us both an "escape from reality").

 

All things I think about, GF and I talk about ... as well as other factors not even touched on here.

 

Thanks for your thorough response.

 

Hopefully, at some point fruitful decisions become easier to make. I do see what you're trying to do but I think, and I think you realize, it leads to an inertia versus change. The situations kind of lulls along on a lazy river without there being any kind of breakthrough. I was reading a book the other day that was discussing love and how one of the aspects people never think about, is that being able to love fully is also being able to say "No" to your loved ones as well as to yourself, and that if you find you have an inability to say no, it is because of either fear, guilt or shame. It was a moment of enlightenment for me and makes sense with regards to enabling.....which often goes hand in hand with fear and guilt and worse, it only gives an illusion of help and love, when one's own fear and guilt is at play and in reality, no one is being helped.

 

 

Also, SMO, I'm sure you're capable of lots of things, but it is unlikely that you can "take care of" and help two women who are respectively dealing with emotional abuse and substance abuse, while you also have an emotional involvement with them...one romantic and one because she was your wife. At some point in life, some issues are stuff we have to work out as individuals, even if you're a part of a couple. Which is why IC is also needed before couple's therapy sometimes, as the individual units have their own business to tackle before they can join with another. It also, I'm certain, has effects on you that you have to work through as an individual that neither of them can help you with either. Everyone needs to take care of themselves in this situation and I'm not trying to be callous, but the blind leading the blind seems to be at work here. Spreading yourself thin between an affair and a marriage where abuse and dysfunction are going on on both ends will faster wear you down than help these women....it's almost guaranteed. In that same insightful book, the author talked about helping versus rescuing and how even when you attempt to rescue, the people still have to learn their lessons anyway.

 

Your situation isn't something easy, was never trying to make it seem like such, but I do hope for the sake of all involved, that someone (maybe it won't be you) will get off the lazy river, so everyone else in the dynamic can get off it too. As from what you're saying and my own intuition, you can't truly be satisfied with the status quo....and without different actions (as the same ones haven't done the trick), this could go on indefinitely. So with sincerity, I do wish for you or someone else to do something differently to agitate and move the situation, as existing in this dynamic indefinitely doesn't seem like balls of fun, neither does it seem like much help nor growth and actualization of individual and couple potential is being reached either.

Edited February 1, 2012 by MissBee

[SoMovinOn]

Nice response Bee. Thank you.

 

Hopefully, at some point fruitful decisions become easier to make. I do see what you're trying to do but I think, and I think you realize, it leads to an inertia versus change. The situations kind of lulls along on a lazy river without there being any kind of breakthrough.

 

We definitely had gotten to the point where it seemed like everyone was waiting for someone else to do something first. Once one domino fell, all the others would fall.

 

I'm waiting for my W to move out.

W is waiting for her friend to break up with his GF so she can move into the apartment he has.

GF is waiting for W to move out before she leaves her M....

 

... and W, rather than moving forward, was steadily digging in deeper and deeper ... maybe knowing I would keep her here.

 

It's clear, I am the only one who can start this change. I have. W starts inpatient alcohol rehab tomorrow. She had become non-functional. Drunk 24/7. I know she's not getting a job, not moving out, until she cleans up and gets sober.

 

Step one. ... and a long way to go.

 

 

I was reading a book the other day that was discussing love and how one of the aspects people never think about, is that being able to love fully is also being able to say "No" to your loved ones as well as to yourself, and that if you find you have an inability to say no, it is because of either fear, guilt or shame. It was a moment of enlightenment for me and makes sense with regards to enabling.....which often goes hand in hand with fear and guilt and worse, it only gives an illusion of help and love, when one's own fear and guilt is at play and in reality, no one is being helped.

 

Enlightening for me as well, although, I am sure a part of me knew this. Guilt? That would be my main choice. I am not ok with letting her live with the consequences of her actions and choices. I can't put her out on the street if I don't think she has a shot at being ok.

 

 

but the blind leading the blind seems to be at work here.

 

Yes... all three of us with issues.

 

 

Spreading yourself thin between an affair and a marriage where abuse and dysfunction are going on on both ends will faster wear you down than help these women....

 

It has. I am about at the end of my rope. The past 48 hours have been grueling.

 

 

As from what you're saying and my own intuition, you can't truly be satisfied with the status quo....

 

I am not, and I regret some of the decisions I've made recently (such as giving my W two years to get out, rather than having her go immediately).