The big "Weight" issue in dating...

[verhrzn]

verhrzn, get all of your hormones checked by an endocrinologist to rule out any hormonal disorder. You might have PCOS or be hypothyroid. Do either of those diseases run in your family?

 

Meanwhile here is a great article from Oprah's website about women who said they did everything right but couldn't lose weight. Very instructive. I tried posting a link earlier but it wouldn't let me. So go to oprah.com and search for "I'm doing everything right, so why can't I lose weight?"

 

No I don't have a hormonal disorder. The only thing that runs in my family is depression and bad eyesight. Though my mother's side of the family is naturally (yes, naturally, pictures of my great-great-great-grandmother confirm it) fatter, and I have a body type like my mother/grand mother/that side of the family.

 

Oprah is actually a perfect example of how there is no fix for weight, and how is a complex system. Here is one of the wealthiest women in the world. She has an army of cooks, dietitians, and personal trainers to maintain every ounce that goes into her. And yet she can't lose weight. So, do you really want to argue that this women-who runs a multimillion dollar company, and built herself up as a brand essentially from the floor up-is too undisciplined to maintain her weight?

 

Here Enigmatic, if you were unsatisfied with that article try this one for explanation as to why humans are not closed systems: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110301060532AAjH4L7

[EnigmaticClarity]

Here Enigmatic, if you were unsatisfied with that article try this one for explanation as to why humans are not closed systems: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110301060532AAjH4L7

 

Huh? I said I agreed with the last video that humans aren't closed systems--I just have no idea what that has to do with the idea that if you burn more than you take in, there's no choice but to lose weight or become ill due to some disorder. This article you linked doesn't challenge that idea. Below is the text from the best answer--I agree entirely with this second paragraph:

 

Living organisms are NOT closed systems in the thermodynamic sense, as they exchange energy with the surroundings (take in energy through food, give out energy by doing work on the surroundings and radiating heat).

 

However, all the dieting industry would be able to claim is, if the amount of energy taken in (food) is less than the amount of energy delivered to the surroundings (work, heat), then you will loose weight because the difference has to come from liberating energy from existing storages of energy in your body.

 

I still have the same basic question I've had for over a decade of various people claiming that it's not as simple as eat less than you burn and you'll lose weight--what happens if you keep doing it? I still have never had anyone answer the question, so I still have no idea what happens other than the obvious result--the body has to start consuming itself, or it has to shut down in some way.

Edited February 1, 2012 by EnigmaticClarity

[insertnamehere]

I mean lets switch it. Say there was this drug that caused peoples face to get burned off. It would suck to go around looking at all these people who got addicted and burned off their faces.

 

Every day I use the internet and see completely preventable acts of stoopidz commited. Yet, I rarely complain.

 

This has to be one of the dumbest ****ing threads I have ever seen on the internet. And I've been on 4chan.

 

Fat people exist. They are going to continue to exist. It's not an actionable problem. Say the Serenity Prayer and move on with your apparently too fabulous life that you spend doing nothing but typing on a backwater advice forum complaining about **** that is beyond your control.

 

How hard is this to understand?

 

"Fat people suck". Sure, OK, hooray, you're right. Just the other day I saw a fat and she was so hideous I barfed all over her. In her craven lust for calories she ate all the chunks of barf just like the bipedal dog she is. Fat people aren't just gross, they're a horrific burden upon society and millions of people end up on SSI after they dash their eyes out so as to never have to look upon them again.

 

OK, let's just accept all that as full-on fact for the sake of discussion.

 

Unless you have a Final Solution in mind, this entire thread is meaningless. You can't fix it by playing keyboard commando.

Edited February 1, 2012 by insertnamehere

[phineas]

No, they're wrong because they're wrong. Most overweight people are chronic dieters. They go through a period of strict calorie restriction, lose some weight, then fall off the wagon and gain it all back. Their weight cycles up and down for years as they fail one diet after another. These people have dieted and exercised more than you ever have in your life, but you never see the results because it's an endless cycle of losing weight and gaining weight. Very different from your notion of fat people who never eat healthy and never exercise.

 

Thyroid disease is not the only medical condition that can cause weight gain. PCOS and Cushing's syndrome are also known for causing weight gain. Not to mention all the prescription medications that have weight gain as a side effect: antidepressants, birth control, antipsychotics, mood stabilizers, steroids, anti-diabetes drugs, etc. Some people are on several medications at the same time (people with schizophrenia, for example) and if all their meds cause weight gain, there's nothing they can do to stop it.

 

You can't tell just by looking at someone how many diets they've been on or what medications they're taking. You can't tell how much weight they've gained and lost and regained over the years. You can't tell if they're lazy or greedy or self-indulgent. You just like to think they are because it makes you feel superior.

 

 

 

I didn't say thin people are unhealthy because they're too thin. Some of them are, but I was referring to people who are a healthy weight, but are unhealthy because of their lifestyle. I know a lot of thin people who eat like fat people. But they're not fat because they have the metabolism of a hummingbird. If you see those people walking down the street, you might assume they're healthy because they look healthy. What you don't know is that they eat McDonalds for every meal and never exercise. Many college-age men fall into this category. They're unhealthy because their diet consists primarily of nachos, pizza, burgers, and beer, and they could definitely be described as lazy and self-indulgent, but you would never know it by looking at them.

 

And then there are the thin people who are unhealthy for reasons unrelated to their diet. They smoke or do illegal drugs or visit tanning salons on a regular basis. All very unhealthy habits, but you would assume they're healthy just because they're thin.

 

There's just no excuse for being judgmental towards anyone, for any reason. Especially people you don't even know. You think a person's weight tells you everything you need to know about that person? Think again. It doesn't tell you anything. After all, your weight doesn't tell people that you're a self-righteous b*tch, right? They'd have to get to know you to find that out.

 

umm, for those on meds that can cause weight gain, where does the mass come from?

I'm not talking 10lbs of water weight either.

I'm talking fat accumulation. Where does it come from?

[phineas]

 

Unless you have a Final Solution in mind, this entire thread is meaningless. You can't fix it by playing keyboard commando.

 

What if he goes commando while playing keyboard commando?

I think it may just give him that edge he's looking for.

[FitChick]

Oprah has admitted to being a food addict. She has admitted to bingeing and raiding the refrigerator at night. She has admitted to hating exercise. But I respect her because she accepts responsibility for her actions and choices. At this point in her life, I doubt she cares if she is thin and seems more concerned with being healthy. She takes bioidentical hormones and thyroid meds for menopause and hypothyroidism. She tries to teach her audience to take care of their bodies by having medical experts as guests. "You can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink."

 

I've never understood the whining about celebs with trainers and chefs. They don't do the exercise or eat the food, the celeb does. Most of us manage eating and exercising on our own. There are thousands of morbidly obese people at death's door who have lost weight the old fashioned way and not with a gastric band. I don't recall any of them saying they never overate and couldn't understand how they got fat. They all admitted to overeating.

 

Perhaps you are one of those people who sleep eat so are unaware?

[Stung]

Well, I'll never give two ****s what anybody else finds attractive, honestly. Feel free to have whatever preferences--there are plenty of chubby chasers in the world, and plenty more people who find extra weight to be a turnoff. Fair enough, all the way around. I am not personally attracted to obesity, although I do find "thick" women very attractive, and I've never minded love handles or some extra huskiness to a male physique.

 

Slice of life commentary: I was molested by a family member throughout the majority of my early childhood, and for many years had terrible self-esteem and a resultant eating disorder. At six feet tall, I often hovered at about 110 pounds, though more often I maintained at 120. I would go for weeks eating almost nothing, burning my empty stomach with it's own acids. People constantly told me how beautiful I was, and that I looked like a model. Willowy. Elegant. Exotic. People asked me to be in their art portfolios. I got positive reinforcement up the yin-yang.

 

After I was raped, I struggled with clinical depression and had to be put on antidepressants. My doctor had a hard time finding a drug and dosage that worked for me and the ones that finally worked for my head, caused my weight to balloon up. I went from being rail-thin to being pretty chunky for a while there. While I was on those meds, it was almost impossible for me to lose weight.

 

I was in group therapy for a while with many other women, all rape and incest/molestation survivors. Several of them were outright obese. I listened to those struggling, conflicted women tell their life stories once a week for more than a year. Many of the obese ones revealed that their own eating disorders stemmed from a subconscious need to keep men away, to keep from attracting to much male attention, because they were afraid of it. They were in too much fear and pain to handle men finding them sexually attractive, on a very deep level, even if on a surface level they still felt lonely and desired love. It was a cognitive dissonance many of them really had a hard time with, and was part of the reason some of them had sought therapy in the first place. Some of them cried about how judgmental, rude, outright mean other people were to them, because they were visibly imperfect. It was just one defense mechanism--many of the thin women were struggling with binge-drinking or drug addiction, others with having submerged so completely into their relationship that they had lost their own personalities, others with complete frigidity, and still others, like me, had sunk into miasmas of depression.

 

Yes, many overweight people might be lazy. My personal feeling about that is just "so what?" but I guess I could be accused of being lazy, also, since I blew off vacuuming the upstairs today because I wanted some time to read instead, so maybe that's just birds of a feather and all that. Anyway, rambling. Said overweight person might be greedy. They might self-soothe with food. They might, on the other hand, have some kind of problem: a real eating disorder linked to something psychological, or, they could have some kind of physical problem or illness. Physical causation is less common than the other issues, true, but still a real issue that exists in the world and affects a lot of people.

 

I occasionally skim through these weight threads on LS. There are a lot of them so I don't bother most of the time because I've learned they rarely vary from pattern. I often see a lot of people who come off, to me, as being very satisfied to have a reason to feel superior--who determinedly label all overweight people with pejoratives, who pre-judge them universally as character-deficient to the point where they sometimes seem almost demonized. I read this and I just think to myself, that's so unattractive. I wonder to myself why being judgmental or lacking in empathy is not considered as negative as being overweight. Of course, in nature it is fairly common for members of a hierarchical/pack species to turn on other members who have some visible weakness or infirmity, so perhaps it's to be expected to some degree.

[xxoo]

Let's assume for a moment that it is true that ANYONE can be thin if they reduce calories in and increase calories out, which is probably true.

 

But what is different for each person is how much you need to restrict calories in and increase calories out.

 

If being thin meant I had to go without the foods I love, or spend an hour in a gym every night of the week after work, I'd rather be a little fat! Especially if my extra weight did not cause any health problems, and I could still enjoy the activities I love.

 

Question for those highly judgmental of fat people: how much would you sacrifice to avoid being fat? Is there any limit? Is anything more important to you than being the right size?

 

Kate Moss has been quoted as saying, "Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels." Do you agree? I disagree! I'm not advocating gluttony, but good food is to be enjoyed--not counted, analyzed, and avoided.

[aj22one]

 

But what is different for each person is how much you need to restrict calories in and increase calories out.

 

If being thin meant I had to go without the foods I love, or spend an hour in a gym every night of the week after work, I'd rather be a little fat! Especially if my extra weight did not cause any health problems, and I could still enjoy the activities I love.

 

Question for those highly judgmental of fat people: how much would you sacrifice to avoid being fat? Is there any limit? Is anything more important to you than being the right size?

 

Kate Moss has been quoted as saying, "Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels." Do you agree? I disagree! I'm not advocating gluttony, but good food is to be enjoyed--not counted, analyzed, and avoided.

 

The problem is the food nowadays if full of crap due to horrible government farm subsidies. Stuff like HFCS and the like. We'd have far less fat people if we just got rid of the farm subsidies. There'd be no need to sacrifice on food choices.

 

And for me, I don't keep in shape for looks, I just like playing sports. It's incredibly hard to play well if you're fat and out of shape.

[kaylan]

Let's assume for a moment that it is true that ANYONE can be thin if they reduce calories in and increase calories out, which is probably true.

 

But what is different for each person is how much you need to restrict calories in and increase calories out.

 

If being thin meant I had to go without the foods I love, or spend an hour in a gym every night of the week after work, I'd rather be a little fat! Especially if my extra weight did not cause any health problems, and I could still enjoy the activities I love.

 

Question for those highly judgmental of fat people: how much would you sacrifice to avoid being fat? Is there any limit? Is anything more important to you than being the right size?

 

Kate Moss has been quoted as saying, "Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels." Do you agree? I disagree! I'm not advocating gluttony, but good food is to be enjoyed--not counted, analyzed, and avoided.

You can have good tasting food and still be fit and healthy.

 

Problem is that people eat huge portions and sometimes only eat crap.

 

I enjoy being slim, and would totally trade up all my favorite foods to remain in the shape I am in. Luckily I was blessed with good genetics.

 

Either way, "calories in, calories out" is not hard to follow. 35 minutes in the gym, a few times a week isnt all that hard. Considering how much smaller America was in previous generations, theres not much reason that we keep getting bigger.

[EnigmaticClarity]

Kate Moss has been quoted as saying, "Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels." Do you agree? I disagree! I'm not advocating gluttony, but good food is to be enjoyed--not counted, analyzed, and avoided.

 

Pretty commonly-used quote, I've heard Stephen Tyler of Aerosmith say the same thing. I agree with it because food is fleeting, lasting at most 15-30 minutes a day, but if you're around people, feeling attractive to them is a far greater high that lasts for far longer. You can see why it'd be MUCH more of a high for Moss or Tyler given how often they're up on display.

[xxoo]

The problem is the food nowadays if full of crap due to horrible government farm subsidies. Stuff like HFCS and the like. We'd have far less fat people if we just got rid of the farm subsidies. There'd be no need to sacrifice on food choices.

 

And for me, I don't keep in shape for looks, I just like playing sports. It's incredibly hard to play well if you're fat and out of shape.

 

I agree, aj22. .

 

If we lived in a culture with purer food, more people could enjoy food without growing fat.

 

Also, if we lived in a time where you had to raise crops to eat, or wash clothes by hand, etc, most people could enjoy food without growing fat.

 

But we live in a culture where it is increasingly difficult to get eat pure food, and increasingly common to SIT 8-10 hours a day to earn a wage. A lot of people either have to avoid food they enjoy, or spend a lot of non-work hours "working out", or both, to avoid being fat.

 

I sympathize. If those were my choices, I'd probably be a bit fat. I wouldn't sacrifice enjoyment of food or excessive time with my family to be a certain size.

[xxoo]

I enjoy being slim, and would totally trade up all my favorite foods to remain in the shape I am in. Luckily I was blessed with good genetics.

 

I would have said the same when I was younger. Not coincidentally, I was slightly anorexic

 

Now that I am older, I'd rather enjoy my favorite food with my family and friends. I do not yet need to make the choice (still thin), but I know the choice I'd make.

[xxoo]

I agree with it because food is fleeting, lasting at most 15-30 minutes a day, but if you're around people, feeling attractive to them is a far greater high that lasts for far longer

 

My perspective is completely different!

 

I have a lifetime of enjoying food with my family and friends. Food is woven into the fabric of our family culture, closely tied to memories of special times together. Recipes are passed down from grandparent to grandchild. It is nourishment of body and soul.

 

Feeling attractive to people around me isn't such a high priority. It is more important to me that others see me as kind, fun, supportive, a good friend, a great mom, a loving wife, etc. That isn't to say that I don't take care of my appearance--I do. But it is not a main focus once I am spending time with the people I enjoy.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

That was such a wonderful and articulate post Stung.

[verhrzn]

I still have the same basic question I've had for over a decade of various people claiming that it's not as simple as eat less than you burn and you'll lose weight--what happens if you keep doing it? I still have never had anyone answer the question, so I still have no idea what happens other than the obvious result--the body has to start consuming itself, or it has to shut down in some way.

 

Here is a really good explanation that I am lifting whole-sale from my fitness forum:

 

We are a open system, but the laws of thermodynamics still apply. The laws of thermodynamics apply to everything. We input energy into our system through food and burn it by living. Just sitting there you are using that energy to keep your organs going and to keep your body temperature where it needs to be. You burn more when you exercise as the muscles are expending more energy than when sitting.

 

The problem is, that our bodies are incredibly complex systems and it is very hard to track exactly how much energy we are absorbing and how much we are burning.

 

For calories in, the term calorie is the biggest problem. A calorie is measured by burning a substance and seeing how much heat it gives off. That's not how our body works, we don't combust the food and absorb the heat. We absorb different amounts from different things than calories would suggest. This is why there are pushes to reduce the amount of calories a gram of protein gives us from 4 down to something like 3.4. Counting calories just isn't a super accurate way of measuring our energy intake.

 

How many calories we burn is even more off. There are all these calculations for base metabolic rate, but this is just an average for those that meat the input criteria. Our genetics and body compositions vary widely, which causes our responses to different stimuli to be very different. My actual BMR may vary widely form what some equation says and the only true way to know it is to go have it measured. Also, once you get in shape, your body becomes more efficient at doing tasks and needs to use less energy to do them because it wastes less of it.

 

So really, the whole energy in/energy out concept is valid and does work, it has to, everything in the universe follows the law of thermodynamics, its just that we don't completely understand how to measure that energy in/ energy out accurately.

[EnigmaticClarity]

My perspective is completely different!

 

I have a lifetime of enjoying food with my family and friends. Food is woven into the fabric of our family culture, closely tied to memories of special times together. Recipes are passed down from grandparent to grandchild. It is nourishment of body and soul.

 

Feeling attractive to people around me isn't such a high priority. It is more important to me that others see me as kind, fun, supportive, a good friend, a great mom, a loving wife, etc. That isn't to say that I don't take care of my appearance--I do. But it is not a main focus once I am spending time with the people I enjoy.

 

None of that need be sacrificed to eat in moderation--nothing at all except for 5 to 10 minutes less time being stimulated by the food.

[EnigmaticClarity]

Here is a really good explanation that I am lifting whole-sale from my fitness forum:

 

You were previously linking people saying that calories in/calories out "doesn't work"...this quote, and your last link, maintains that it does. I agree with both. The last article qualifies it by saying it's hard to do accurately--definitely that's true. But you absolutely can figure out your base metabolic rate--pretty sure I know mine now within plus or minus 200 calories just from years of experience eating different calorie levels with and without exercise added into my routine. And calorie estimates aren't off by so much that they're useless for calculations to lose weight.

[Jane2011]

I almost never read entire threads, so I rarely reply to any one person in particular. But I skimmed enough of this to see the two "sides." I'll say that I'm basically with the "judgmental" people Not to say I'm mean or hateful toward overweight or obese people (not at all).

 

But I tend to think that for most of them, it's something they could control if they wanted to. I definitely know the "type" of overweight person who exercises and eats healthy but is still overweight; they could not be called lazy or unconscientious about eating. (Although if the above situation were the case, I'd probably think they are still doing something wrong, like not practicing portion control). In any case, knowing the type and seeing the type in reality are two different things.

 

Just thinking of the first people who come to mind who I know who are overweight or obese, they are all doing something wrong: (and yes, I know that my random 10 people isn't indicative of the population; I'm just showing where my belief that it's usually controllable and not some big thyroid problem comes from. And why I don't think it's often that the obese/overweight person is doing "everything right" but genetics or their body chemistry is just working against them.)

 

My mother: eats extremely healthily (vegetables, rice, little salt, little sugar) but never exercises and also doesn't practice portion control. I think she eats way too much white rice, and too often.

 

My friend N (female): exercises regularly (she can do 30 minutes on a treadmill and climb three or four flights of stairs, easy) but loves her "bad" carbs. She's stated to me that she'll never be thin, and she knows it, because she just loves bread, pasta, etc. and lots of it.

 

My friend M (female): healthy-eating vegetarian who never exercises. I don't really know all of what she eats and in what portions; I do know that she never exercises, though. She recently went to a yoga class with me and kind of laid off most every move because she couldn't do it, even just basic bends and stretches, etc.) She was thin when I first met her approximately 9 years ago.

 

My friend B (male): drinks a lot and eats a lot and never exercises. He's admirable in many ways; he's very academic and participates in a lot of literary and teaching-related conferences. But his life is all about the mind, very little/almost not at all about body up-keep. He was thinner about 2 and a half years ago when I first met him. His weight gain, he knows, is because he got caught up in school and neglected exercise.

 

My friend (K): never exercises.

 

 

Not gonna do ten people after all. Gotta go to work in a minute. But as I go through this little exercise (no pun intended), it seems to me that in most cases, it's because the person doesn't like to exercise at all. There's something about exercise (in lots of cases, that makes you more mindful about how much you're eating). Exercise creates this natural, internal "belt" around your waist that kind of hems in your instinct to eat a lot. I think if you don't exercise, that natural belt is not there and you eat more.

 

I don't not respect people who are overweight or obese. Not necessarily anyway. One of my above-mentioned overweight female friends is a very intellectual woman who is a lawyer. I respect her education, her intellect, and her kindness as a friend. I'd just respect her more if she took care of her body more.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Jane2011

[kaylan]

None of that need be sacrificed to eat in moderation--nothing at all except for 5 to 10 minutes less time being stimulated by the food.

This.

 

Portions.

[verhrzn]

You were previously linking people saying that calories in/calories out "doesn't work"...this quote, and your last link, maintains that it does. I agree with both. The last article qualifies it by saying it's hard to do accurately--definitely that's true. But you absolutely can figure out your base metabolic rate--pretty sure I know mine now within plus or minus 200 calories just from years of experience eating different calorie levels with and without exercise added into my routine. And calorie estimates aren't off by so much that they're useless for calculations to lose weight.

 

What I've been trying to demonstrate from the beginning is that IT'S A LOT MORE COMPLICATED. BMR is an average that doesn't take into account body compensation, genetics, the effects of different stimuli.

 

And actually, yes, calorie estimates CAN be completely off, especially if you're cooking your own food from scratch. Go to MyPlate or some other calorie counter and put in a completely unique recipe that you've made. Is that calorie count accurate? Depends on if you put in and measured EXACTLY.

 

Additionally, people are so focused on weight that they miss that thinness does not always equal health. If you're trying to strictly lose weight, calorie in/calorie out MIGHT work (depending on tons of different other factors, as clearly stated in the articles I've linked.) But what if you're trying to lose weight AND build muscle? Calorie counting is now completely useless.

 

As to your earlier question, I calorie count because I indulge in certain food groups that I shouldn't. If I was eating strictly Paleo (no processed foods, no dairy, no grains, limited natural sugar) I could eat however much I wanted without taking into consideration the calories. But because I eat dairy and the occasional cheater meal, I have to be careful of my nutritional intake.

 

Example: if I spent all day eating fruit (which is technically healthy) at a calorie rate of 1500 a day when my BMR is 1800, I still wouldn't lose weight. Why? Because fruit is packed with carbs and sugar, two building blocks that lead to fat retention.

[joystickd]

All I will say is this: Dogs like bones and men like meat.

I prefer my woman to have some meat on her bones. I like curves and big butt and thighs on a woman. Skinny women just don't do it for me.

[EnigmaticClarity]

I don't not respect people who are overweight or obese.

 

Outside of relationships, I'm the exact same way, I almost never think about it. I only start to lose respect when someone starts looking for external factors to blame weight on. I was overweight for years with one of my ex-girlfriends, and she used to blame my weight on age when I was only around 30! Um, yea, right...AGE is what's doing it, not the fact that I rarely exercise and eat most meals until I'm full or even past full, yea, it's AGE. If by "age" you mean I had gotten to the point where I didn't care what other people thought about the way I looked, then sure, attribute that to age if you like, but I knew that my will and choices were the issue.

[Els]

None of that need be sacrificed to eat in moderation--nothing at all except for 5 to 10 minutes less time being stimulated by the food.

 

I think what xxoo is saying is that when grandma prepares an awesome roast meal with drippings, you don't excuse yourself or even worse, pile only salad onto your plate. Fun family recipes are rarely the best foods for weight loss.

 

I think some people put way too much emphasis on losing weight. It gets to the point that they go out for dinner with friends at a nice restaurant, and perpetually order a chicken breast salad, or turn down eating out entirely because they're on a diet. What's up with that?

 

IMO it's perfectly fine to NOT make losing weight the goal of everything that you do. Personally, as long as I'm in the medically healthy weight range, I'm going to be enjoying myself when I want to. In general, I will cut down on the deep fried stuff, choose steamed over fried, lean over fatty, eat my veggies, and check the calorie contents of groceries I put in my cart... But I will still eat the stuff I enjoy. I will still have a cheesecake or ice cream or steak or streaky bacon with hash browns and eggs, when I feel like it. I will still dine out with the bf and have drinks with friends and have a hearty meal instead of skimping on the portions. And if that means I have to be 120 lbs instead of 105 and have a few rolls that would disqualify me from posing for Playboy... well, so be it. The preoccupation that current society has with weight is often pretty disturbing.

[xxoo]

None of that need be sacrificed to eat in moderation--nothing at all except for 5 to 10 minutes less time being stimulated by the food.

 

And if a moderate portion (for you) makes them fat, what then? How much would you moderate your portions to stay thin?

 

I do think Jane is onto something with the exercise portion. Activity is a vital part of avoiding obesity. But, again, consider how much movement has been removed from daily life by desk jobs, cars, and other modern conveniences. How much time does the average person need to spend "working out" to make up for all that time sitting?

 

I think "working out" is misery (I know, blasphemy!). Playing is something I enjoy regularly--sports, running, biking, etc. But going to a gym and working with machines is absurd to me. I think it is a really poor substitute for activity built into daily life, and I'm not surprised many people avoid it.