Need honesty from men!

[locamia]

Don't wanna get into the whole story but in getting details of my husbands full disclosure of his past and the secret life he's been leading he just told me that he 'sometimes' thinks about his ex girlfriends while masturbating. I am naive I guess because I've never been with anyone besides him but this hurts especially when added to everything else I have discovered about this man I thought I knew. Is this normal? Do all men do this? And most importantly do men that have been married for 10 years to their soulmate who claim to never have a desire to be with anyone else really feel this way but still be masturbating to memories of other women they've been with? Maybe I'm taking it too personally but it just feels like in a sense he's cheating on me every time he takes a shower!

[carhill]

Fantasies of any sort aren't unusual but IMO he's a d!ck for talking about fantasies about ex'es with you. A wise person knows when to keep such things to themself.

 

My anecdote is, during the years our M was good, and during my prior LTR's, I never thought about any ex'es, crushes, unrequited loves, childhood fantasies, women on the street, etc. Are men typically like this? I doubt it. The smart ones keep their mouth shut. At the point when such thoughts intruded, I kept them private. Their disclosure would serve no useful purpose. Talking about the 'why' they intruded, in my case, could and did serve a useful purpose. Is that universal advice? No. Each M and situation is different.

 

IMO, tell him what you want to feel more positive and loved, not 'cheated upon'. See how it goes.

[Philosoraptor]

This seems to be your insecurity. People are going to think about whatever tickles their fancy, as this is their private time. Does it bother you that it his ex specifically; or is it the fact that he is whacking it thinking about another woman?

[whichwayisup]

Don't wanna get into the whole story but in getting details of my husbands full disclosure of his past and the secret life he's been leading he just told me that he 'sometimes' thinks about his ex girlfriends while masturbating. I am naive I guess because I've never been with anyone besides him but this hurts especially when added to everything else I have discovered about this man I thought I knew. Is this normal? Do all men do this? And most importantly do men that have been married for 10 years to their soulmate who claim to never have a desire to be with anyone else really feel this way but still be masturbating to memories of other women they've been with? Maybe I'm taking it too personally but it just feels like in a sense he's cheating on me every time he takes a shower!

 

You are taking it too personally. Fantasies that come into one's head during jerking off is private and nobody's business, not even your spouse/boyfriend/girlfriend. MOST people, not just men, do this. I have fantasies of women (I'm married and straight), am I cheating on my H because I gave myself a huge orgasm, thinking of women and me in bed while pleasuring myself? No.

 

He shouldn't have told you anything, especially if he cheated on you (not sure what you meant by secret life? Or are you implying he has a secret life about fantasies?).

[locamia]

He has never once admitted to fantasizing so he told me this in an effort to give me full disclosure about his past. I never believed he didn't fantasize but I guess I figured it was faceless people not real ones. Silly me.

 

All I want out of my marriage in order to feel more positive and loved is the simple things. Honesty, commitment, fidelity, and the sense of security and self worth u get from feeling that you are all your husband needs. Right now I don't have ANY of those things. Yes the secret life I speak of involves finding out after 10 yrs of marriage he is addicted to porn and strip clubs and has been cheating on me since day one. Obviously my world has been turned upside down. I am holding onto the hope than he will change his actions but now realizing that neither one of us will ever be able to change his THOUGHTS. I have no problems with fantasizing it is normal and we all do it, but fantasizing about REAL people that he was with 10 years ago to me is not normal when someone says that I am enough for them.

 

Maybe this is just part of my effort to find out if my marriage is worth saving.

 

Carhill: Can I ask what u discovered about yourself or your relationship in finding out the whys?

 

Do any other men fantasize about exes but not have any desire to actually be with them or with anyone else?

[Zaphod B]

Ex-girlfriends - no

Other women - yes.

[carhill]

Carhill: Can I ask what u discovered about yourself or your relationship in finding out the whys?

When I felt abandoned in the M and began to experience such thoughts of a past love, I started talking about what I needed from my now exW to have a healthy synergistic team and to feel loved. I did so for about two years and then had an EA with that past love and disclosed it. We later divorced. That's my singular data point.

[xxoo]

I have no problems with fantasizing it is normal and we all do it, but fantasizing about REAL people that he was with 10 years ago to me is not normal when someone says that I am enough for them.

 

I don't get the distinction, how one means you are not enough and the other is ok.

 

To me it seems normal to fantasize about a sexual experience you had in the past. It doesn't take anything away from you, and the present. Every time you have sex, you are creating a new memory that could potentially become fantasy fodder. He has a lifetime of "mind movies", and some of them will be with women he was with before you.

 

Does he never fantasize about you? That would bother me, if he fantasized about everybody BUT me.

 

Would this issue bother you as much if he had been completely faithful to you over the years?

[locamia]

I don't get the distinction, how one means you are not enough and the other is ok.

 

To me it seems normal to fantasize about a sexual experience you had in the past. It doesn't take anything away from you, and the present. Every time you have sex, you are creating a new memory that could potentially become fantasy fodder. He has a lifetime of "mind movies", and some of them will be with women he was with before you.

 

Does he never fantasize about you? That would bother me, if he fantasized about everybody BUT me.

 

Would this issue bother you as much if he had been completely faithful to you over the years?

 

I guess the distinction would be I always knew he looked at porn (but didn't know even a small percentage of his addiction to it) and always figured he fantasized even tho he never admitted so I chalked it up to 'boys will be boys' and I shouldn't take it personally. But I figured he fantasized about porn..only in his head instead of on a screen.. not actual people and definitely not girls he had relationships with 12 yrs ago. If I knew this even before I knew about the cheating it would've bothered me but I wouldn't have made an issue of it. I would have been secure with our marriage and my place in it.

 

He does in fact fantasize about me and I do believe this. We even have home porn (that we made before I found all this out) and I know for a fact he looked at it often. When he told me about the fantasizing he said he thinks about these girls but he always thinks about me in order to 'finish'. But as one might expect I don't know at this point what is true and what is BS.

 

The problem now is that in light of the addictions and cheating he can't explain any of it but maintains that the only thing he knows for certain is that he has never had the desire to be with another woman. I am clinging to the hope that this may be true but if the thought of being with a real life person is so exciting to him that he is fantasizing about it, I just can't convince myself what he says is true. I am slowly running out of things to hold on to I guess. I don't know which way is up. I don't know what is normal and what isn't. I don't know what is reality and what is an illusion of a man.

[thatone]

the whole "i think about you to finish" thing is bullsh*t.

 

it takes a fairly sick mind to be hooked on going to topless bars, imo. simply because it isn't real, there's no way any of those women in such places have any real interest in him, even sexual interest, they're paid to give him attention.

 

i think you're going to have to demand that he make up his mind to either deal with his issues and be with you alone, or you're going to leave him. and don't be surprised if the end result is the latter.

[xxoo]

The problem now is that in light of the addictions and cheating he can't explain any of it but maintains that the only thing he knows for certain is that he has never had the desire to be with another woman. I am clinging to the hope that this may be true but if the thought of being with a real life person is so exciting to him that he is fantasizing about it, I just can't convince myself what he says is true. I am slowly running out of things to hold on to I guess. I don't know which way is up. I don't know what is normal and what isn't. I don't know what is reality and what is an illusion of a man.

 

Look at his actions. He cheated? With another women? How can he claim he had no desire to be with another woman if he had sexual contact with another woman??

 

Thoughts and fantasies are one thing. A man who wants only you will ACT like he wants only you. He won't go to strip clubs seeking out other women to look at. He won't spend hours and hours collecting and viewing images of other women.

 

A man that wants one women might have a memory that he enjoys from time to time, or fantasize about a coworker or movie star or other "fantasy" woman. But he won't go out of his way to seek out more of that woman.

 

What do his actions tell you?

[stillafool]

Look at his actions. He cheated? With another women? How can he claim he had no desire to be with another woman if he had sexual contact with another woman??

 

^^^^^^^^

That is what I don't understand about your thread. Why are you more concerned that he has sexual fantasies about his ex girlfriends than you are about the fact that he has been cheating since day 1.

[standtall]

locamia, I can't figure out why there is a debate in your mind about which one is more troubling

 

Don't wanna get into the whole story but in getting details of my husbands full disclosure of his past and the secret life he's been leading he just told me that he 'sometimes' thinks about his ex girlfriends while masturbating. Maybe I'm taking it too personally but it just feels like in a sense he's cheating on me every time he takes a shower!

 

or

 

Honesty, commitment, fidelity, and the sense of security and self worth u get from feeling that you are all your husband needs. Right now I don't have ANY of those things. Yes the secret life I speak of involves finding out after 10 yrs of marriage he is addicted to porn and strip clubs and has been cheating on me since day one

 

unless you consider the porn/strip clubs cheating....I'm not really sure what you meant by "cheating".

 

What a person thinks inside their head are theirs and theirs alone. No person has a right to tell someone else what they should be thinking. I think your husband made a mistake by telling you anything at all about masturbation. You see, this whole masturbation thing with men and women is one of many things different about men and women...men are visual, I want to stick my penis in as many women as possible, we can have sex with a women while not liking her type of creatures. Men are different than women physically, mentally, sexually, and in so many other ways that are too numerous to state her, and it appears that you are using your female perspective to analyze the situation, thereby condemning him no matter what. Now, if his use of porn is causing him performance issues with you, then there is a problem, otherwise leave him alone about what he is thinking about when he is having sex.

[locamia]

I guess when the SINGLE (meaning out of MANY) issue(s) I was having a hard time with on this one particular day is taken out of the context of the bigger picture it looks like I am basing the survival of my marriage on whether of not my husband jerks off to other women. I even got an LMAO in one reply, as if any part of my current situation is humorous right now. But hey, if someone got a good laugh out of it, more power to 'em. So to bring a little light to the situation, and because I could really use some advice right now, the fantasizing thing was only his most recent disclosure, therefore the one I asked for advice for. It means next to nothing as compared to the big picture. And the reason he told me (since most seem to think he should've kept it to himself) is because 1- his recovery program is demanding complete disclosure of his past so he stepped up and gave it to me, and 2- I asked for the info because it didnt make sense after reading part of this program that you can have such deep sexual issues but not ever fantasize..so I called him out on the BS he always fed me.

 

So the story goes..after 3 kids and 10 years of marriage he developed ED at 29 years old, my first thought was he had 'numbed himself' by looking at porn, so I start looking into his porn usage..discovered that it was completely out of control..confronted him about it..spent 7 months trying to get it under control..him continuing to promise he wouldnt but always eventually finding new and different ways to continue to look at it..so then the lies and denial start..a huge red flag for me because he had always been an honest person in my eyes..grew tired of it and it started affecting me emotionally and physically..so one day put him on the spot and demanded he clear his conscience and come clean, at this point thinking he would come clean about his porn usage and the lies and cover-ups related to it. Instead, not only did I get what I wanted, I also got (by his own free will and not because I had discovered anything else) a bombshell....that he had been leading a double life when I would leave the house- and this life involved 2 blow jobs in a car from a girl he worked with between 12 and 9 years ago, frequent (at times..when he wasn't able to control the urges) visits to strip clubs that started 6 years ago (the total number of visits is in the 20's), and 3 more 'back-room-extras' type incidents involving blow jobs at one of these strip clubs (which he at this point stopped going to this particular one so it wouldn't happen but went to other 'safer' ones instead).

 

the whole "i think about you to finish" thing is bullsh*t.

 

It could very well be and at this point it doesn't matter much. I am inclined to thing he might though..he has over a hundred explicit photos/vids of me on his phone and I know he looks at them regularly and has masturbated to them before. When I first found out about the cheating he near had a panick attack when I grabbed his phone and started hitting delete because at the time it all just felt really dirty. I am on an emotional rollercoaster daily and in finding out this new information it's almost like I'm taking what he tells me(in this case the fantasies) and trying to figure out for myself if he really wants me and this marriage and this life that we have or if he wants a life of strippers, porn, and meaningless hookups. He tells me he wants me without a doubt but, obviously, his actions in the past tell me otherwise. It really has little to do with the fantasies themselves and more to do with..is he longing for a life with someone else or with me?

 

i think you're going to have to demand that he make up his mind to either deal with his issues and be with you alone, or you're going to leave him. and don't be surprised if the end result is the latter.

 

I have. And if he hadn't stepped up I wouldn't still be here. Since the disclosure of the cheating (which was almost 3 months ago) he has been on a mission to make it right. As far as treating the addiction, he is seeing a therapist for it, we go to a separate therapist together, he has started an amazingly informative online recovery program, and now is looking into starting a 'rebooting' process to attack to issues of porn addiction and erectile dysfunction. And thats all just the mental health aspect. Aside from that he is like a different person..bought a new wardrobe because he has always worn stained and ratty 15-yr-old band tshirts and now feels scummy in them, pays more attention to the kids and they are responding 10-fold, opens up to me for hours on end about his behaviors and his feelings, is attentive to my pain and emotions- he wont even go up to bed at night without talking it out if he knows I am in a bad place emotionally, and now is extremely aware of his issues with anger and tries to stop it in its tracks. Our son really pissed me off yesterday to the point where I just stopped talking because I knew I would say something nasty. My husband gets into the car and instead of snapping gets into this calm discussion with my son about the incident. It blew me away. Since when is mommy the angry one!? As far as the sexual stuff, I cant say any of this with 100% certainty only because most of this can be done secretly and, as with any addict covering their tracks, can be easily lied about. But as far as I know he has been committed to the obvious (no porn or strip clubs- and I've been checking up on the porn and have found nothing), and also to not even masturbate- by his own choice (he doesnt know this but I also have ways of checking up on this and as far as I know he hasnt). He was almost scared of masturbating at first- I think he thought it might trigger an urge to use porn. The list really goes on. He has done everything right since the disclosure of the cheating. And not because I am telling him to. He has cried more than I have ever seen a man cry in my life. He is very confused as to how he let it get so out of control but anyone that knows an addict, knows they have to admit they have a problem before they will ever do anything about it. One thing that sticks out in my mind is that he said whether with porn or with strip clubs- is that he would always do it because he cant control himself and then every single time would tell himself that was the last time and he would never do it again.

 

So the big question now is..is it enough, and is it too little too late? Can I live with the things he has done in the PAST, even if the future sometimes looks bright? Can I live with the fear of him being capable of doing it again? Can I live with feeling like I will never be enough for him? Does he, or any man for that matter, deserve a second chance? Does this man deserve ME? I have devoted myself and my life to him since day one and never been dishonest or unfaithful. Do I not deserve better than this? I don't know how to answer any of these questions. These questions torture me every second of every day. They are the last thing on my mind when I go to sleep and the first thing when I wake up. On the good days I picture us not only together but being stronger than ever. On bad days I picture me creating a happy new life for myself without him and him sitting in a one bedroom apartment with nothing but a laptop, a flash drive full of porn, and a limp dick in his hand. Sorry..sad but true. Any thougths or insights on any of this would be so appreciated. I feel like I am not even thinking straight anymore so any outside perspectives are extremely helpful..good or bad.

 

Look at his actions. He cheated? With another women? How can he claim he had no desire to be with another woman if he had sexual contact with another woman??

 

Thoughts and fantasies are one thing. A man who wants only you will ACT like he wants only you. He won't go to strip clubs seeking out other women to look at. He won't spend hours and hours collecting and viewing images of other women.

 

A man that wants one women might have a memory that he enjoys from time to time, or fantasize about a coworker or movie star or other "fantasy" woman. But he won't go out of his way to seek out more of that woman.

 

What do his actions tell you?

 

^^^^^^^^

That is what I don't understand about your thread. Why are you more concerned that he has sexual fantasies about his ex girlfriends than you are about the fact that he has been cheating since day 1.

 

locamia, I can't figure out why there is a debate in your mind about which one is more troubling

 

 

or

 

 

unless you consider the porn/strip clubs cheating....I'm not really sure what you meant by "cheating".

 

What a person thinks inside their head are theirs and theirs alone. No person has a right to tell someone else what they should be thinking. I think your husband made a mistake by telling you anything at all about masturbation. You see, this whole masturbation thing with men and women is one of many things different about men and women...men are visual, I want to stick my penis in as many women as possible, we can have sex with a women while not liking her type of creatures. Men are different than women physically, mentally, sexually, and in so many other ways that are too numerous to state her, and it appears that you are using your female perspective to analyze the situation, thereby condemning him no matter what. Now, if his use of porn is causing him performance issues with you, then there is a problem, otherwise leave him alone about what he is thinking about when he is having sex.

 

LMAO! Good lord, I'm a woman and even I don't believe that bullsh*t story that he thinks of you to 'finish' off. What a crock.

 

Secondly, you say the guy has been cheating since Day #1. Why the hell are you even still with him? And in light of the fact that he's a serial cheater, does it really MATTER who he thinks about when he's jerking off? I think you've got MUCH bigger problems than who this cretin is thinking about when he's jerking off. Since he lives for his genitals, something tells me he does that a lot.

 

Charming.

[standtall]

. and also to not even masturbate- by his own choice (he doesnt know this but I also have ways of checking up on this and as far as I know he hasnt).

 

ROTFLMAO..you should listen to how this sounds.

 

Oh my, please do tell your secret so us men can share it to avoid the masturbation police.

 

On a serious note, your husbands blowjobs with hookers and cheating with live, breathing people should be your number one concern, but you seem to have zoomed into the porn. I am wondering if he admitted to the physical cheating as a smokescreen to cover up the real porn/sexual issue. I also wonder, what kind of porn is it that he prefers...is it illegal/real perverted stuff, or is pretty straight up? Maybe he has a LGBT issue?

 

As far as looking a dirty pictures of women, IMHO, it is more a values issue than anything. If you don't share the same values..ie you think that looking at porn is cheating/dirty/sinful, and he doesn't, well then there is a major problem with your marriage.

[stillafool]

It sounds like your husband is doing everything he can to win back your trust. Whether it is enough or not is up to you. You are fooling yourself if you think you can control his fantasies. Hell, I can't even control my own and I am a woman. I can't help who I view as sexy but I can control my actions. I find it hard to believe that if your husband is a sex addict and he only got BJ's in his car and nothing else , but whatever. The point is he does seem to be trying.

[locamia]

Guys I'm just looking for hope. I am looking for something positive to grab onto in this negative situation. I have had what I thought was a good marriage for 10 years to a man that I still want to believe is a good person somewhere in there, no matter how much I despise him right now. I also have 3 children with him. I don't want to regret walking away immediately without being sure it is not worth saving. It may not be. And I will do just fine without him. Believe me I think to myself every day that I know I deserve better than this. I can handle the negative comments and the poking fun even thought it doesn't feel good to be made fun of in a situation like this. Maybe I'm being irrational. Maybe I seem like a Nazi. Guess what..if I am now its not by choice. I am not the same person I was before learning of his sexual deviance. I am PERFECTLY AWARE that I can not control my husbands thought or actions. And the porn was only a huge issue for me BEFORE I found out about the cheating! However the addiction to it is undeniable therefore needs to be addressed also.

 

The point I was trying to make is that everything he is doing right NOW he is doing on his own, not because I gave him any ultimatums or told him to. I stepped back from the situation so that I could see how he would handle it on his own, without me having to tell him what to do to TRY to make it right. I'm not saying that any of it is enough but to some people it might be worth something. Say whatever you want about anything I have said, but please explain at what point I became the bad guy. Does anyone have anything insightful or helpful to say or should I just keep coming back on here looking for help only to get eye rolls and LMAOs?

[norajane]

Yes, I think it's very common for men to think about all kinds of women while masturbating - exes, people they used to be hot for but never dated, people they are attracted to but never dated, the girl at the coffee shop, the woman in the check-out line, celebrities, girls in porn, Victoria's Secret models, and you. They may or may not tell you about it, but they do.

 

Normally, this isn't a problem. In your circumstances, your hubby has issues and only you can say whether this bothers your or not. I don't know how easy it is to rationalize it under the circumstances and tell yourself that it's not bothersome because everyone does it.

[standtall]

Say whatever you want about anything I have said, but please explain at what point I became the bad guy.

 

No offense intended, you just sounded funny when..to paraphrase...'I have my ways of knowing if he masturbates', which still sounds funny as I type it. You're not the bad guy at all...just offended by what he is doing, which is not good or bad, merely your opinion of what he does.

 

As far as your plea

Does anyone have anything insightful or helpful to say or should I just keep coming back on here looking for help only to get eye rolls and LMAOs?

 

I said this

 

As far as looking a dirty pictures of women, IMHO, it is more a values issue than anything. If you don't share the same values..ie you think that looking at porn is cheating/dirty/sinful, and he doesn't, well then there is a major problem with your marriage.

 

because my wife and I view porn the same way..it is sinful...and while we do not have a problem, we do know other couples that do not share the same values, and their differences of opinion about porn is not only a source of friction in their marriage, but is also a symptom of the difference of their core values. This can be a major issue in a marriage. You indicated to me that this may be a factor in your situation as well from your statement

 

And the porn was only a huge issue for me BEFORE I found out about the cheating!

 

which is a view, quite apparently, that your husband does not share. Perhaps you should do an assessment of your shared values in your marriage and see if you and your husbands problems center around that.

 

Again, there is one thing I cannot get my head around in your postings. Why are you so concerned about the porn, when he is getting blowjobs from hookers and cheating on you with real people? Most people would consider the latter 2 some major deal breakers in a marriage.

Edited February 6, 2012 by standtall

[Feelin Frisky]

Fantasies are necessary because the mind is the true organ of sex. But it is just plain inconsiderate and often emotionally disturbing to tell a partner the details. Why would anyone think to blab that out? But IMO everyone is entitled to use their mind as they see fit. I don't know what anyone else thinks in those times of sexual gratification so I can't say what is normal or typical, just that it's personal and should remain so when in a relationship where disclosure will hurt or upset.