I spluttered....

[FelicityShot]

Wow...how compassionate of you.

 

I am not sure what you are advocating here.

[FelicityShot]

No small survey...I'm a WS too...I also sleep in another room and I don't have sex with my H...but that was prior to my affair...but u should know by know that women (most) can't compartmentalize like a man (most) can...men will have sex anytime, anywhere, with anyone, under any circumstances...especially with the woman he's MARRIED to...

 

Where's DespicableMe? I need help here "Are the hearing themselves?"

 

Have you read the constant stream of complaints about sexless Ms on the other forums here? From MM?

 

I have seen this IRL too. Some MM lie about sex to their OW, some are in sexless MS, and some become more sexless once an A starts.

 

All these things happen.

[Spark1111]

Have you read the constant stream of complaints about sexless Ms on the other forums here? From MM?

 

I have seen this IRL too. Some MM lie about sex to their OW, some are in sexless MS, and some become more sexless once an A starts.

 

All these things happen.

 

Not as often as the women want to believe, sorry, despite the lies you or any other OW wants to believe coming out of the mouth of her adoring, "I will say anything" to get you into the sack again MM.

 

fBS here....we had sex at least twice a week during his affair, but he told her rarely to never.

 

Why? because she wouldn't have continued be available physically to him otherwise. He's a man. He knew that intuitively. So he lied about it.

 

Big shocker, I know.

 

She told him I must have a bf and he started to agree with her. (OK, that works.)

 

If that is not the height of delusional thinking, projecting, I do not know what is.

 

Darling, if I got into bed naked and moved against him, even during the hottest. most passiomate part of your affair, it was a done deal.

 

I am not trying to hurt anyone here. I just want women to wake up about men.

 

Can any men weigh in here and inform? Whatever you think you knew about the sex HE CLAIMED he wasn't having with me, you are so easily deluded and on some level, he knew he could do that to you.

 

Wake up and smell the coffee. Ane NEVER allow yourself to be so

[Spark1111]

SO EASILY mISLEAD, MISINFORMED, AND MANIPULATED AGAIN.

[Spark1111]

Have you read the constant stream of complaints about sexless Ms on the other forums here? From MM?

 

I have seen this IRL too. Some MM lie about sex to their OW, some are in sexless MS, and some become more sexless once an A starts.

 

All these things happen.

 

Women grow as easily bored with men as men grow with their women.

 

Women need romance and an emotional connection to feel sexual with a man.

 

Men make the mistake of thinking women are like men biologically and we are not. When they no longer make the effort to connect emotionally and romantically with us, we lose our sexual desire for them. We are bored with wham, bam, thank you maam.

 

Men climax within 7 minutes (start to finish) with a woman they desire. The average woman takes 18 to 22 minutes to climax with a man who EXCITES her. If men do not understand that, they risk losing the woman sexually.

 

In an affair, a man will invest all the romantic, sexual intensity in a woman that sets her on fire physically; he gives to get.

 

She will do ANYTHING to keep that going and he intuitively knows that. So the texting, the sexting, the emoting, the drama all heighten the sexual intensity and he plays along.

 

She feels she is in love. He is having the most intense orgasms of his life.

 

Everybody wins, Everybody loses. KWIM?

[bentnotbroken]

Women grow as easily bored with men as men grow with their women.

 

Women need romance and an emotional connection to feel sexual with a man.

 

Men make the mistake of thinking women are like men biologically and we are not. When they no longer make the effort to connect emotionally and romantically with us, we lose our sexual desire for them. We are bored with wham, bam, thank you maam.

 

Men climax within 7 minutes (start to finish) with a woman they desire. The average woman takes 18 to 22 minutes to climax with a man who EXCITES her. If men do not understand that, they risk losing the woman sexually.

 

In an affair, a man will invest all the romantic, sexual intensity in a woman that sets her on fire physically; he gives to get.

 

She will do ANYTHING to keep that going and he intuitively knows that. So the texting, the sexting, the emoting, the drama all heighten the sexual intensity and he plays along.

 

She feels she is in love. He is having the most intense orgasms of his life.

 

Everybody wins, Everybody loses. KWIM?

 

:bunny::bunny::bunny:DITTO!

[MissBee]

I find it hard to advise my friend - but I did say it would be a dealbreaker for me. But then the sex with BS if regular would be too.

 

Friend understands the negative traits and non-equal R, but seems unwilling at this point to make the change. If there is such a thing as fog, this suggestion by the MM seems to have helped move her into real time.

 

I don't know why for her it isn't an instantaneous move on thing.

 

But something is interesting about this thread, which I have reflected on. And that is, why if an OW is prepared to share c*ck, why is it so far stretched to share sex toys?

 

I have the same response as most here - yuck. No way. Sicko.

 

I also agree with what another poster said - it's about his W. MM wants to get off in the same way as with W, and will enjoy the kick of the two women involved thing. Gotta be that.

 

Plus the deceit sex hit must have got quickly jaded, and he needs to up the stakes.

 

I wonder about myself - why I have such a strong aversion to this idea. Why is it that I would feel more betrayed if my H went and used my sex toys with an OW, than if he just screwed her? Or even loved her?

 

I don't have an answer for this.

 

Although a man is married, his penis is intrinsically his...it's on his body and I assume some MM take baths. A sex toy is not his, it is completely someone else's, who may or may not wash it. It's easier to assign ownership of objects than body parts and I think the image of a used/dirty sex toy IS grosser than an alive penis. I think that's why it seems worse....

 

Kinda like for example: we kiss and swap saliva when we do...but most would be queasy at the idea of drinking a teaspoon of someone's saliva outside of the act. A sex toy is separated from a human body part, it's an object and can be fetishized...I think that's why it's weird...because this situation has moved into the realm of fetish. I think that's it....this special request to use his wife's sex toys, it's ascribing that object outside of himself with whatever mess is in his head, one that is intimate to his wife, and thus being able to fetishize it and use it on his OW. It's easier for him to objectify the sex toy and get off on that, than his own penis....

Edited February 2, 2012 by MissBee

[daisy love]

I was recently told by a friend who is currently an OW, that her MM suggested bringing around his BS's sex toys for them to use together.

 

He still has sex with his W, but the emotional intimacy is apparently dead.

 

Anyway, I saw this as way beyond red flag and fully into WTF dealbreaker territory.

 

I mean, who is this guy?

 

She reads here, and while she didn't want to post, she was interested in comments that might be forthcoming.

 

I find it difficult to understand an A where the M party is still having sex with the BS, so that is outside my remit. I can't really advise, but surely NOT THAT!

That's just gross and totally unsanitary! But hey, he's using his live member on both his gals, so why not the fake one too.

At least he doesn't want your BFF to drink the wife's pee or something. That'd be like really humiliating, ya know?

[skylarblue]

It should be washed thoroughly after every use...

Hold up. There was a HUGE misunderstanding here. I meant “thoroughly cleaned, once in a while” as in I would allow MM to use it once in a while NOT that it should be cleaned once in a while. That’s totally gross. Of course it should be washed thoroughly after every use!

[skylarblue]

I wasn't going to comment further...but I can't help it. So what would you assume a man's motive is for asking you that? Why can't you use your own or buy a new one? Of all options...what is YOUR assessment of why a man would ask another woman this? What do you think he thinks of her?

 

I would assume either he wanted to use sex toys and mentioned the W’s because it was accessible and convenient and/or he gets off on the idea of using her things on the OW, but I’m relating it by the context of my R with xMM who would probably be both. I’m not saying I could/wouldn’t/can’t use my own or buy new or whoever. I’m not saying I consciously consider it an option, just that I would do it once in while FOR MM if he wanted me to. I’m just not so freaked out by the idea like everyone seems to be. I can’t say what the friend’s MM may think of her by asking. It could mean nothing, it could mean he thinks she’s “whorish”. I don’t know. I just don’t think it has to mean anything as far what he thinks of her or something negative. Again, maybe I'm way far off on this one.

[MissBee]

I would assume either he wanted to use sex toys and mentioned the W’s because it was accessible and convenient and/or he gets off on the idea of using her things on the OW, but I’m relating it by the context of my R with xMM who would probably be both. I’m not saying I could/wouldn’t/can’t use my own or buy new or whoever. I’m not saying I consciously consider it an option, just that I would do it once in while FOR MM if he wanted me to. I’m just not so freaked out by the idea like everyone seems to be. I can’t say what the friend’s MM may think of her by asking. It could mean nothing, it could mean he thinks she’s “whorish”. I don’t know. I just don’t think it has to mean anything as far what he thinks of her or something negative. Again, maybe I'm way far off on this one.

 

So a man who gets off on using his wife's sex toys on you or who pretty much uses you as a means of sticking it to his wife doesn't bother you?

 

Do you think a man who gets off on that is a man who cares or respects you and he's perfectly normal? What do you get out of being with someone like that?

 

I'm curious....you mentioned you'd do it if the MM wanted you to...sooo what about what you want? Forget him...do you get off on that? Is it something you'd suggest yourself OR do you oblige your MM anything he asks of you unquestioningly?

Edited February 2, 2012 by MissBee

[SidLyon]

Hmm I'm a little puzzled about the reactions of some of the OW and fOW here...

 

Yes IMO it's totally gross to share a sex toy with another woman; but no more gross than having sex with a man who's also having sex with another woman.

 

I'm a fBW and would never knowingly share either a sex toy or my H with another woman. On the other hand that's what an OW signs up for isn't it? Sex with a man who's doing it with another (his BW). I don't see the problem for OW, although I never willingly would...

[Emme]

This economical crisis is truly affecting them. They don't have the time to be f*cking around it's time for someone to get a second job.

[Angelina527]

Either the guy is incredibly cheap (won't spring for new toys), or he's incredibly twisted (gets off on disrespecting his wife). I guess having an affair was not enough disrespect for him towards his wife. He needed to bring her personal stuff into this scenario to up the level of disrespect. He must get off on that somehow. Either that, or he really hates his wife. Next thing you know, he'll be bringing over the wife's clothing and asking his OW to wear them while having sex, or bringing her into his house and doing it in their bed. That's some sick bum she has there. What a prize.

 

This.

 

The entire idea is incredibly revolting and disrespectful to both women, but bringing the wife's personal INTIMATE items into it is just unforgivable.

 

Ewwww...I hope your friends runs far and fast.

[FelicityShot]

Although a man is married, his penis is intrinsically his...it's on his body and I assume some MM take baths. A sex toy is not his, it is completely someone else's, who may or may not wash it. It's easier to assign ownership of objects than body parts and I think the image of a used/dirty sex toy IS grosser than an alive penis. I think that's why it seems worse....

 

 

Yes, this is why. Thanks MissBee. His c*ck is his own, but the sex toys are his W's.

 

I kind of hope for the sake of my friend that the more innocent sounding explanations have some validity - like he is insecure or perhaps so heated up by passion that he has lost his right mind.

 

But instinctively - it's a red flag the size of Kazakhstan.

[Elizabeth Southerns]

Hmm I'm a little puzzled about the reactions of some of the OW and fOW here...

 

Yes IMO it's totally gross to share a sex toy with another woman; but no more gross than having sex with a man who's also having sex with another woman.

 

The sex toys belong to the W. The H's penis (and the rest of him) belongs to the H.

 

The sex toys are not choosing to share themselves with the H and the OW. The W is not choosing to share the sex toys with the H and the OW.

 

The H is choosing to share himself and his penis with the OW.

 

I guess not spotting a difference between something that is owned by another, and someONE that has free will and owns himself signals a different view on "ownership" and free will.

[woinlove]

The sex toys belong to the W. The H's penis (and the rest of him) belongs to the H.

 

The sex toys are not choosing to share themselves with the H and the OW. The W is not choosing to share the sex toys with the H and the OW.

 

The H is choosing to share himself and his penis with the OW.

 

I guess not spotting a difference between something that is owned by another, and someONE that has free will and owns himself signals a different view on "ownership" and free will.

 

Maybe a different view, maybe a different emphasis. Personally, I don't consider the ownership of the sex toys that important. It would not make much difference to me whether the W or H purchased them, whether they thought of them as jointly owned, or owned by the W. Perhaps that makes a difference to you if it all comes down to ownership?

 

For me it is more complex and involves respect and levels of deception. In this case, I imagine the MM may get off on using the toys with his W after using them with the OW, while his W does not have a clue that the toys have been used with OW. In other words, this likely says something about the character of the MM that may have a common element in many A, but is also special (in a negative way) in its depth and focus. The ownership, to me, is not the major issue.

 

ETA: I realize in some affairs, the MM or the OW or both can actually get off on the deception itself. For example, relishing being together in the presence of the BS and knowing they are fooling her/him, getting off specifically on using the marital bed, etc. This strikes me as in the same vein.

Edited February 2, 2012 by woinlove

[donnamaybe]

Maybe a different view, maybe a different emphasis. Personally, I don't consider the ownership of the sex toys that important. It would not make much difference to me whether the W or H purchased them, whether they thought of them as jointly owned, or owned by the W. Perhaps that makes a difference to you if it all comes down to ownership?

 

For me it is more complex and involves respect and levels of deception. In this case, I imagine the MM may get off on using the toys with his W after using them with the OW, while his W does not have a clue that the toys have been used with OW. In other words, this likely says something about the character of the MM that may have a common element in many A, but is also special (in a negative way) in its depth and focus. The ownership, to me, is not the major issue.

 

ETA: I realize in some affairs, the MM or the OW or both can actually get off on the deception itself. For example, relishing being together in the presence of the BS and knowing they are fooling her/him, getting off specifically on using the marital bed, etc. This strikes me as in the same vein.

Some people consistently bring "ownership" into conversations about A's.

 

The whole idea is disgusting. This is one sick ticket. Then again, what else could one expect from a lying cheater?

[woinlove]

Some people consistently bring "ownership" into conversations about A's.

 

The whole idea is disgusting. This is one sick ticket. Then again, what else could one expect from a lying cheater?

 

I think it is rationalization, which is common (some might say universal) in secret affairs. Okay to have sex with MM in the "his" car, but not in "his wife's" car, even though by law both may be considered jointly owned and marital assets. It is common to make distinctions that avoid the central issues as part of rationalizing how one is treating others.

[18Years2Late]

The sex toys belong to the W. The H's penis (and the rest of him) belongs to the H.

 

The sex toys are not choosing to share themselves with the H and the OW. The W is not choosing to share the sex toys with the H and the OW.

 

The H is choosing to share himself and his penis with the OW.

 

I guess not spotting a difference between something that is owned by another, and someONE that has free will and owns himself signals a different view on "ownership" and free will.

 

SMH...no offense please but I find the comparison of the W "ownership" of the H to the W "ownership" of a dildo a little strange...no one "owns" another person...I might have a commitment to my H from a morality standpoint by virtue of some vows and a peice of paper...but he doesn't OWN me like something he bought at the store...and vice versa...I certainly don't own him...and would never think that I did...

 

But I do own sex toys...that I don't share...and wash thoroughly after each use .

[Elizabeth Southerns]

Maybe a different view, maybe a different emphasis. Personally, I don't consider the ownership of the sex toys that important. It would not make much difference to me whether the W or H purchased them, whether they thought of them as jointly owned, or owned by the W. Perhaps that makes a difference to you if it all comes down to ownership?

 

It has nothing to do (IMO) with who paid for them. The sex toys were purchased in the context of the M between the H and the W. They "belong" there.

 

The H's penis was not created, purchased or otherwise brought into being in that context. It was, and remains, his, even if he chose to "lend" it to the M. It does not "belong" to the M in the same way - it belongs to him, as it is a part of him, and is subject to his free will.

 

It's not all about ownership to me, but about free will and choice. The sex toys, being "owned" by the BW, do not have free will to choose to join the R between the H and the OW. They are the property of, and subject to, the say so of the BW.

 

Unlike the H's penis.

[Elizabeth Southerns]

SMH...no offense please but I find the comparison of the W "ownership" of the H to the W "ownership" of a dildo a little strange...no one "owns" another person...

 

Exactly. So comparing a penis to a dildo, as if both were "owned" in the same way by the BW, seems ludicrous to me.

[woinlove]

It has nothing to do (IMO) with who paid for them. The sex toys were purchased in the context of the M between the H and the W. They "belong" there.

 

The H's penis was not created, purchased or otherwise brought into being in that context. It was, and remains, his, even if he chose to "lend" it to the M. It does not "belong" to the M in the same way - it belongs to him, as it is a part of him, and is subject to his free will.

 

It's not all about ownership to me, but about free will and choice. The sex toys, being "owned" by the BW, do not have free will to choose to join the R between the H and the OW. They are the property of, and subject to, the say so of the BW.

 

Unlike the H's penis.

 

Expanding on what I said previously, to me, ownership is not a central issue in matters involving love, sex, intimate relationships, affairs,... How one treats others, honesty, openness, respect are central issues to me, but definitely not ownership. In this we differ.

[woinlove]

It has nothing to do (IMO) with who paid for them. The sex toys were purchased in the context of the M between the H and the W. They "belong" there.

 

The H's penis was not created, purchased or otherwise brought into being in that context. It was, and remains, his, even if he chose to "lend" it to the M. It does not "belong" to the M in the same way - it belongs to him, as it is a part of him, and is subject to his free will.

 

It's not all about ownership to me, but about free will and choice. The sex toys, being "owned" by the BW, do not have free will to choose to join the R between the H and the OW. They are the property of, and subject to, the say so of the BW.

 

Unlike the H's penis.

 

Actually, besides disagreeing on you that the concept of ownership is important in an affair, I really don't understand your post.

 

What do you mean by the sex toys "belong" in the M?? If a H and W share some sex toys and which both he H and W agree he can use on a third party and the third party is fine with this, would you say -- even though there is nothing wrong with having sex with a third party (all 3 here are openly and honestly exercising their free will, right?) , it is somehow wrong for the three of them to agree to use sex toys originally purchased by the H and W to use on each other? Can you please explain exactly what moral code of yours that violates? Because I am just not getting it.

[donnamaybe]

Actually, besides disagreeing on you that the concept of ownership is important in an affair, I really don't understand your post.

 

What do you mean by the sex toys "belong" in the M?? If a H and W share some sex toys and which both he H and W agree he can use on a third party and the third party is fine with this, would you say -- even though there is nothing wrong with having sex with a third party (all 3 here are openly and honestly exercising their free will, right?) , it is somehow wrong for the three of them to agree to use sex toys originally purchased by the H and W to use on each other? Can you please explain exactly what moral code of yours that violates? Because I am just not getting it.

I'm not getting it either. Inanimate objects OF COURSE do not have will, free or otherwise. They cannot promise fidelity to another person. People, however, can and do. They DO promise to not stick their penis in another woman's vagina. But some do anyway. But the toys going in another woman's vagina are somehow worse?