Male psychology

[xxoo]

About frequency, well, our drives are different. A typical woman can be completely libido-neutral at many points in the day....not sexually aroused at all, and would need to get turned on to have sex. A typical man can be at the edge of aroused all the time, always ready to have sex at the drop of a hat. They need to have more sex on the brain, because they are the hunters.

[Mme. Chaucer]

 

 

Mme. Chaucer, I can't help but personally equate that a man that thinks about banging other women while in a relationship with me, does support some disatisfaction with what I have to offer him. Why is it we tell ourselves that it's natural for us to think about other people (and it is), but that it's not natural to feel worried about what our partners are thinking about and what that means to their involvement with us?

 

Actually, I DO think it's natural to feel worried about it, to a certain extent. Most of us have insecurities.

 

But then, I think you need to deal with that worry on your own. If your partner really is not present for you in the ways you need him to be, you really have a problem with HIM. If he is, but you are preoccupied with what is going on in his fantasy life, then I think you have a problem with YOURSELF.

 

I have read quite a few of your posts about porn and sexuality. I think that many of your points are valid. I am not against porn, but I do know that it's changed the sexual terrain for a generation by now and not necessarily in a good way. I am also not in favor of a lot of the disempowerment of damaged people that is capitalized upon in that industry. BUT, I also am in favor of complete empowerment for sex workers. The sex industry is not going away, so I would like those who are doing the work to reap more of the power and benefits rather than "users" who are in a pimp-like position.

 

BUT, you completely lose me when you go off on your beliefs that it's "wrong" for a person to have freedom to fantasize, or even freely think about whatever they wish to in deference to their partner.

 

I would like to ask you a question: Do you think that it is "wrong" for a person to masturbate when they are in a relationship? Actually, do you believe that masturbation is wrong, in general? If so, is your position informed by the bible?

 

 

I can't stop not thinking that if a man is focusing on other women within his relationship with me, that it infact does point to a certain amount of disatisfaction.

 

"Focussing" is not the same as fantasizing or thinking about.

 

And what if I am only thinking of one man every 6 months and controling myself the other time but he is thinking of 600 women within 6 months. Seems unbalanced.

 

It's this type of thinking where you veer off from reason into the territory of control issues (of your own) verging on the "thought police."

 

As I said above, if your partner is present for you and you are fulfilled, it is really NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS what is going on inside his head. If a guy is obsessed or even preoccupied with thoughts of other women, or with sexual acts / situations that have nothing to do with your sex life together or with what you like, I don't think he is offering YOU a fulfilling relationship. Sexually or otherwise. The answer to that is, however, NOT to think about how he should control his thoughts, or how YOU can control HIM. The answer is to have a relationship with a person who offers you what you need in a relationship, and with whom you can work through rough spots.

 

DY, sexuality is complicated, mysterious and personal. Two people can explore a lot of that within the boundaries of a deep committed relationship. But I believe that is well proven that REPRESSION of ones sexuality is unhealthy, and it will often lead to more and deeper problems which might have been avoided if it were "okay" for people to be free, shameless and guiltless about their own sexual preferences and fantasies.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Mme. Chaucer

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Mme. Chaucer

Actually, I DO think it's natural to feel worried about it, to a certain extent. Most of us have insecurities.

 

However, whenever these type of discussion come up, it seems to be all about the sexual freedom and being sensitive to how a man needs x amount of women to feel happy in his life vs asking men to ever consider how diffucilt this is and how much pressure there is on just a regular women that knows that her man is confronted with millions upon millions of goregous women everyday. Some that he is looking up himself, and some he happens to come across on the street. Very little do we ever ask men to show sensitivity. But we sure see a lot of men asking for women to understand how they just need fast amount of visuals of other women to be happy as men.

 

But then, I think you need to deal with that worry on your own. If your partner really is not present for you in the ways you need him to be, you really have a problem with HIM. If he is, but you are preoccupied with what is going on in his fantasy life, then I think you have a problem with YOURSELF.

 

I think a man's fantasy life is a good reflection of partly where his head is at. There are many men (and women) that present one face to the world, but behind closed doors, are doing other things. I think the type of porn a man looks at, what he thinks about, who he thinks about, can be a reflection of this.

 

I have read quite a few of your posts about porn and sexuality. I think that many of your points are valid. I am not against porn, but I do know that it's changed the sexual terrain for a generation by now and not necessarily in a good way. I am also not in favor of a lot of the disempowerment of damaged people that is capitalized upon in that industry. BUT, I also am in favor of complete empowerment for sex workers. The sex industry is not going away, so I would like those who are doing the work to reap more of the power and benefits rather than "users" who are in a pimp-like position.

 

I also agree that there needs to be more empowerment for sex workers. That however doesn't change any of my arguements concerning most people, that aren't in porn, that might be in normal relationships.

 

 

BUT, you completely lose me when you go off on your beliefs that it's "wrong" for a person to have freedom to fantasize, or even freely think about whatever they wish to in deference to their partner.

 

I never said fantasy itself was wrong. I said that we have a culture that perpuates an over ambundance of fantasy. Just like we have a culture that perpuates an over ambundance of food and eating. However, with eating, the affects are much easier to chart then with fantasy and sex. I however believe sex is a bigger addiction then anything food could ever be. Not that fantasy is wrong all the time. That the level our culture promotes and indulgence in it has changed and not for the better.

 

I also believe that since relationships are made up of the mental, emotional, spiritual and physical, that it's important to be committed to loyalty in all these as well. I never personally understood why people would demand physical loyatly and not mental loyatly when relationships are compromised of both.

 

[

B]I would like to ask you a question: Do you think that it is "wrong" for a person to masturbate when they are in a relationship? Actually, do you believe that masturbation is wrong, in general? If so, is your position informed by the bible?

 

I do not think masturbation is wrong in or out of a relationshp. I however think that we have reached an epidemic level of promoting sex in our culture that might promote a lot of unneccesary masturbation for people. We don't require people to act with any self control. We are overshot with so much sexual imagery that our brains soak it up and ask for "more, more, more".

 

I never said or thought fantasy was wrong. I think the level our society promotes these things has gotten out of control. And becaue the affects of such thing are less obvious then someone that eats food, I believe it makes it more dangerous then the epidemic we have with food and being overweight.

 

"Focussing" is not the same as fantasizing or thinking about.

 

It's this type of thinking where you veer off from reason into the territory of control issues (of your own) verging on the "thought police."

 

See now, that is completely unfair. I was completely clear about the fact that I don't expect a man to be perfect, I said to the original poster that people are going to fantasize. But the difference is in how much a person indulges and TRIES to maintain some sense of control vs someone who just decides to pull out anytime they feel a little twinge in their pants.

 

And I sincerely think the comment about "thought police" (I've seen it used many times before), is competely insincere and meant to present a view that had nothing to do with what I said.

 

I also don't want to be with a man that I have to push and probe to be "better". I want to be with a man that wants to do better because *he* had pride in himself. So it has nothign to do with wanting to be the "thought police". It has to do with the lack of self control we seem to have in our culture. 5 years ago you use to hear men say "I only look at porn once in awhile". I don't hear that anymore.

 

I also don't understanding how "focusing" is not hte same as thinking about of fantasizing. Care to explain for me?

 

 

As I said above, if your partner is present for you and you are fulfilled, it is really NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS what is going on inside his head.

 

Being "present" I guess means different things for different people. I don't particularly consider a guy "present" if he's thinking aout all the other women he wants to bang.

 

And it's not really true that it's never anyone's busines what is going on in their partner's head. Everyone is aloud to have their private thoughts and they don't need to share everything BUT what a person thinks about reflects who they are. I wouldn't want to be with a guy that was thinking about girls only terms of sex every chance he got. I don't think that's an unreasonable thing to seek out.

 

The answer to that is, however, NOT to think about how he should control his thoughts, or how YOU can control HIM.

 

None of my comments where about me controling a man. I like men that have respect and pride in themselves to use self control. Both phyiscally and mentally. I made that clear earlier as well.

 

DY, sexuality is complicated, mysterious and personal. Two people can explore a lot of that within the boundaries of a deep committed relationship. But I believe that is well proven that REPRESSION of ones sexuality is unhealthy, and it will often lead to more and deeper problems which might have been avoided if it were "okay" for people to be free, shameless and guiltless about their own sexual preferences and fantasies.

 

We agree. I never said anything to the contrary. I however thing we've reached a point and time with technology that it's no longer just about freedom of sexual expression and healthy attitudes about sex. We are not a sexually balanced and healthy culture just because sex is more available and out there. Any more then when sexuality was repressed. But no one is lamenating for sexual repression. Self control doesn't have to equal repression.

[joystickd]

 

 

See now, that is completely unfair. I was completely clear about the fact that I don't expect a man to be perfect, I said to the original poster that people are going to fantasize. But the difference is in how much a person indulges and TRIES to maintain some sense of control vs someone who just decides to pull out anytime they feel a little twinge in their pants.

 

And I sincerely think the comment about "thought police" (I've seen it used many times before), is competely insincere and meant to present a view that had nothing to do with what I said.

 

I also don't want to be with a man that I have to push and probe to be "better". I want to be with a man that wants to do better because *he* had pride in himself. So it has nothign to do with wanting to be the "thought police". It has to do with the lack of self control we seem to have in our culture. 5 years ago you use to hear men say "I only look at porn once in awhile". I don't hear that anymore.

 

I also don't understanding how "focusing" is not hte same as thinking about of fantasizing. Care to explain for me?

 

 

Its a shame when someone give you some real advice that is true and you get offended and feel attacked

[Mme. Chaucer]

We live in an age and a culture of tremendous excess, and I agree that it's not healthy and that a lot of self discipline is required in many areas in order to not get carried away by the avalanche.

 

That's each individual's own private journey.

 

There has been more than one man to post here on LS about how their personal porn use turned out to be a problem for them in their own lives and how they had to make a choice to change it.

 

One I remember particularly was our dearly departed friend WLIC, who realized that it was negatively impacting his relationship. He expressed himself very articulately about the whole situation. It's too bad that his posts were removed.

 

Bottom line is that I don't think it's useful for anybody to be in a preaching type position about such things. If a person is fine and happy with how they are handling themselves, and they have not been pressed by circumstances to look at certain things - whether it be porn use, recreational drugs, general Internet "addiction," food issues, drinking, procrastination, shopping, whatever - then they are likely to carry on unless / until their OWN life lets them know that it's time to take a look and consider change.

[2sunny]

What someone else thinks inside their head isn't my business.

 

What I DO - shows the world who I am - what I'm about! I tend to show my same self whether someone is watching or not.

 

Being proud of the person I AM - means everything... My actions and words represent that core being of self.

[xxoo]

I never said fantasy itself was wrong. I said that we have a culture that perpuates an over ambundance of fantasy.

 

Nancy Friday's 1973 book was revolutionary because it revealed that women DO fantasize. Women and men always did, but it was considered shameful, and denied. Nevertheless, women and men enjoyed sexual fantasies. Culture may have just caught up!

 

I also believe that since relationships are made up of the mental, emotional, spiritual and physical, that it's important to be committed to loyalty in all these as well. I never personally understood why people would demand physical loyatly and not mental loyatly when relationships are compromised of both.

 

I can't understand how a thought is disloyal.

 

I do not think masturbation is wrong in or out of a relationshp. I however think that we have reached an epidemic level of promoting sex in our culture that might promote a lot of unneccesary masturbation for people. We don't require people to act with any self control. We are overshot with so much sexual imagery that our brains soak it up and ask for "more, more, more".

 

What is unnecessary masturbation

 

People have differing libidos. I didn't need exposure to porn to masturbate daily as a young teen.

[xxoo]

I think a man's fantasy life is a good reflection of partly where his head is at. There are many men (and women) that present one face to the world, but behind closed doors, are doing other things. I think the type of porn a man looks at, what he thinks about, who he thinks about, can be a reflection of this. .

 

I agree with you here.

 

Believe it or not, knowing who and what turns my guy on (besides me) helps me trust him more. It also helps me feel good about myself.

 

Because the women my guy responds to are really awesome

 

Maybe the problem isn't so much that a man has a sexual thought, but rather the type of women he thinks of? I can see how it would be troubling if my man was clearly sexually drawn to women very different from me, in stereotypical "hot" ways. But that isn't the case in my reality.

[Mme. Chaucer]

One of the reasons we are so overindulgent as a culture is a backlash to puritanical mores.

 

Cultures that are more open and accepting about sexuality, nudity, etc., like most in Europe, seem to have less obsessions with sexuality than we do in the US.

 

Things like America's famous outrage about Janet Jackson's boob or President Clinton's "zipper problem" are laughed about in Europe.

 

Squashing things rarely works. Prohibition helped booze flourish. The "War on Drugs" has been quite a boon to organized crime.

 

Try and limit porn, control the Internets more, or control individuals' access to it and see where that takes us.

[mtber75]

Is the OP 12 yrs old? How could a grown adult be unaware of this?

 

Or if they are Jesus Freaks...Fantasizing about other women is a sin? Like porn, I only fantasize about it! Nothing more or less!

[mtber75]

That's what most women like to tell themselves in order to sleep soundly at night until the rude awakening comes Plenty of threads on here prove this.

 

99% percent of the men would cheat if's with an attractive woman and if there's a 100% guarantee that it would never be found out about.

 

 

I beg to differ...

 

WHAT kind of a stupid statement is this! Sorry that your man cheated on you? But if I'm in a committed and loving relationship I will not cheat even if I don't get caught...See I was raised to respect people and cheating is CLEARLY not respecting your partner!

[EnigmaticClarity]

What are the odds of the passive-aggressive misandrical point of view from this thread lasting 3+ months like the porn thread has? I give it a 70% chance myself--I'm sensing FAR more than enough disillusionment with the male libido around here for it to last at least that long.

[carhill]

One I remember particularly was our dearly departed friend WLIC, who realized that it was negatively impacting his relationship. He expressed himself very articulately about the whole situation. It's too bad that his posts were removed.

 

Not to fear, they still live on. Here's an example, relevant to the male psychology of porn use.

[Mme. Chaucer]

What are the odds of the passive-aggressive misandrical point of view from this thread lasting 3+ months like the porn thread has? I give it a 70% chance myself--I'm sensing FAR more than enough disillusionment with the male libido around here for it to last at least that long.

 

Be fair; there are only a couple of voices of "misandrical point of view" speaking on this thread, and a lot of feminine defense of the male libido.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Not to fear, they still live on. Here's an example, relevant to the male psychology of porn use.

 

Thank you, Carhill.

[EnigmaticClarity]

Be fair; there are only a couple of voices of "misandrical point of view" speaking on this thread, and a lot of feminine defense of the male libido.

 

Absolutely, but wow, those few voices burn intensely with a fire that seems to rage on indefinitely. I would like to apologize on behalf of my fellow males who I'm guessing have wronged these women in the near or distant past--I assure you, we're not ALL evil like they were!

[Disenchantedly Yours]

We live in an age and a culture of tremendous excess, and I agree that it's not healthy and that a lot of self discipline is required in many areas in order to not get carried away by the avalanche.

 

That's each individual's own private journey.

 

There has been more than one man to post here on LS about how their personal porn use turned out to be a problem for them in their own lives and how they had to make a choice to change it.

 

One I remember particularly was our dearly departed friend WLIC, who realized that it was negatively impacting his relationship. He expressed himself very articulately about the whole situation. It's too bad that his posts were removed.

 

Bottom line is that I don't think it's useful for anybody to be in a preaching type position about such things. If a person is fine and happy with how they are handling themselves, and they have not been pressed by circumstances to look at certain things - whether it be porn use, recreational drugs, general Internet "addiction," food issues, drinking, procrastination, shopping, whatever - then they are likely to carry on unless / until their OWN life lets them know that it's time to take a look and consider change.

 

Are you suggesting that I am preaching Mme. C? Aren't you not doing your fair amount of "preaching"? Or are we both just sharing our thoughts on this topic?

 

Yes, we all know there are other unhealthy avenues that people can get wrapped up in. Often I find people mention these to limit the conversation or sexuality and porn specifically.

 

I'm sorry to hear about WLIC. I am not familiar with this poster.

[Els]

Well, I asked the bf this question just for funsies, today. His response was that many other guys do, but he doesn't *shrug*. I know skeptics here will laugh at that, the same way as they're laughing at the men here who also say they do not... and they're welcome to do so. He has been very forthcoming and blatantly honest, almost to a fault, about many other things though, so I don't see why he'd lie here.

 

He thinks a major reason other guys do, is because they are with girls primarily for sex, and because they don't have the confidence to attain the girls that they truly want, so they just settle for whichever girl they can get and use her as a placeholder for other fantasies. I agree with his former assessment, but not the latter. I do think that the sort of guy for whom sex is not a primary motivator in relationships, is less likely to allow his mind to wander in such directions about random women. His puzzled question was, "Why would I want to imagine having sex with random women whom I don't have feelings for?".

 

I told him I did not know the answer to that question either.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Elswyth

[Disenchantedly Yours]

xxoo

Nancy Friday's 1973 book was revolutionary because it revealed that women DO fantasize. Women and men always did, but it was considered shameful, and denied. Nevertheless, women and men enjoyed sexual fantasies. Culture may have just caught up!

 

Oh, culture caught up alright. And it accelerated right over that line.

 

I never once suggested that women don't also fantasize.

I never once suggested that fantasizing was unhealthy.

I never once suggested that people, men or women, were perfect or that you should expect perfection.

What I do suggest is that we live in a culture of over-abundance and sex is included within that. I think it's a lie to believe that when it comes to sex, everything is okay, healthy or right.

 

 

I can't understand how a thought is disloyal.

 

The best way I know how to explain it is that within my relationships, the mental, spiritual, emotional and physical are all important componants of what makes up our relationship. The thoughts we have toward one another, the emotions we express to one another, the way we act physically toward each other are intertwined. Therefore, for me, loyatly is important in all these facets. I think it matters where my head is at. It matters what thoughts I am thinking.Just as it matters what emotions I am feeling for someone and how I act phyiscally.

 

I am not suggestion that that takes away all thoughts. I am not suggestion that I am perfect or that other people should be either. I just see a lack of even attempting to "try" any form of self control in today's culture. People seem to underplay the mental aspects. Certainly thoughts will come into your head, thoughts you may not even want there. But what one does with those thoughts matter. Do they indulge? Or do they redirect themselves and master some self control?

 

What is unnecessary masturbation

 

People have differing libidos. I didn't need exposure to porn to masturbate daily as a young teen.

 

Of course people have differing libidos. But we also live in a culture where we are given sexual messages quite often. Often, directing our thoughts there more then they might have gone there naturally. I think you probably have a lot of people relaying more on porn then in recent generations because it's simply there.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

What are the odds of the passive-aggressive misandrical point of view from this thread lasting 3+ months like the porn thread has? I give it a 70% chance myself--I'm sensing FAR more than enough disillusionment with the male libido around here for it to last at least that long.

 

Be fair; there are only a couple of voices of "misandrical point of view" speaking on this thread, and a lot of feminine defense of the male libido.

 

How about you both be fair and just simply come out and *say* you are suggesting has "misandrical point of view". Instead of indirectly talking around it while still attempting to suggest untrue things about other posters.

 

I don't think most men and women here hate the other gender at all. I don't think anyone that responded to this thread hates men or women. Lets not throw untrue labels around because of our dislike of certain posters.

[Els]

DY, here's a novel suggestion - there are men who fit your requirements. Yes, they really exist. See my post above. Why not just be with them and let the other men do as they wish? There are women who don't mind.

[Woggle]

I think I have found the female version of me.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

What are the odds of the passive-aggressive misandrical point of view from this thread lasting 3+ months like the porn thread has? I give it a 70% chance myself--I'm sensing FAR more than enough disillusionment with the male libido around here for it to last at least that long.

 

Be fair; there are only a couple of voices of "misandrical point of view" speaking on this thread, and a lot of feminine defense of the male libido.

 

How about you both be fair and just simply come out and *say* who are suggesting has "misandrical point of view". Instead of indirectly talking around it while still attempting to suggest untrue things about other posters.

 

I don't think most men and women here hate the other gender at all. I don't think anyone that responded to this thread hates men or women. Lets not throw untrue labels around because of our dislike of certain posters.

[xxoo]

I never once suggested that fantasizing was unhealthy.

 

Certainly thoughts will come into your head, thoughts you may not even want there. But what one does with those thoughts matter. Do they indulge? Or do they redirect themselves and master some self control? .

 

If fantasy is not unhealthy, why the need for self control and redirection?

 

 

I think I have found the female version of me.

 

Very introspective, Woggle!

 

Does it sound reasonable from the other side?

[Woggle]

 

 

 

 

Very introspective, Woggle!

 

Does it sound reasonable from the other side?

 

No but surprisingly it doesn't get me angry. I get angry when there is a complete lack of empathy for men and when it is celebrated when men are mistreated. She just has issues trusting men. Of course all men are not like that but when you have experienced certain things it is hard to see the good.