MM/OW Sex with BS...Dealbreaker???

[woinlove]

Odd that you don't understand what I do say, but you *do* understand something I have never said. I think A's are terrible, wrong, devastating... always have, and I've always said that here.

 

Or... what if my STBXW had multiple A's? She did. Was I surprised? No. Was I hurt? Yes. Being aware and prepared doesn't make a problem not a problem, it just helps you to deal with the problem better.

 

One of the issues a couple of other infidelity sites had with how I dealt with my W's A's was they were not pleased with how quickly I put it all behind me. I was supposed to be blindsided, clueless, holding onto as much hurt, pain and anger as I could possibly muster.

 

No thanks. I have too much life ahead of me to stay stuck in some moment in the past.

 

Huh? I never mention the word wrong. I said "lesser deal". From what you write, that is exactly what is sounds like, infidelity is a lesser deal to you than to most. For some people, infidelity is a deal breaker, for others, it may not be a deal breaker in causing a divorce, but it could still be traumatic and devastating enough, that they insist the WS needs to heal or change in order to stay married, because they will divorce if he/she does it again. You stuck around through multiple betrayals and say you quickly put it behind you. Now you are with another woman who is cheating. What is that if it isn't a lesser deal.

 

In my experience, it is the most loving and trusting people who will be most devastated by deep betrayal. I used to be quite closed off emotionally and betrayals would not have hurt me much and I would have moved on quickly (and did, when a MM lied to me about his R with his BW). So I didn't hurt as much, but I wouldn't recommend anyone to try to close themselves off. Betrayal was a lesser deal to me then, but I'll take my current trusting and loving state over that any day.

[MissBee]

Huh? I never mention the word wrong. I said "lesser deal". From what you write, that is exactly what is sounds like, infidelity is a lesser deal to you than to most. For some people, infidelity is a deal breaker, for others, it may not be a deal breaker in causing a divorce, but it could still be traumatic and devastating enough, that they insist the WS needs to heal or change in order to stay married, because they will divorce if he/she does it again. You stuck around through multiple betrayals and say you quickly put it behind you. Now you are with another woman who is cheating. What is that if it isn't a lesser deal.

In my experience, it is the most loving and trusting people who will be most devastated by deep betrayal. I used to be quite closed off emotionally and betrayals would not have hurt me much and I would have moved on quickly (and did, when a MM lied to me about his R with his BW). So I didn't hurt as much, but I wouldn't recommend anyone to try to close themselves off. Betrayal was a lesser deal to me then, but I'll take my current trusting and loving state over that any day.

 

This is very true...and it is no surprise that commitment phobia and emotional unavailability often go hand in hand with cheating.

 

I'm sorry...but in working through my own emotional unavailability issues...I KNOW from experience that it only ever produces a semblance of what a vulnerable, intimate relationship can be....but usually it is still very unsatisfying as you subconsciously ALWAYS have your guard up and choose relationships that can never fully bloom due to either: it is an A, it is long distance, some other impossible or complicated situation. From all I have seen of SMO in terms of his story...I somehow do not believe that he is oh so happy and content and unperturbed by his situation and is a poster child for how everyone else's life would be if they too believed like him. Why be here if you were living your life in bliss and not disappointed by betrayal...whether that done to you or the ones you perpetrate? It makes me want to pull a Dr. Phil and ask "So how's that working for YOU?" If what I see you express here is your own advice working for you, I have to say that, for me personally, I'm not sold that your stance is very much helpful to living a happier, more fulfilled life.

[SoMovinOn]

I seriously doubt anyone WANTED you to "hold onto as much hurt, pain, and anger as you could possibly muster." I think it just harks back to what another poster said a bit ago about how someone who expects to be cheated on, therefore putting a protective wall up, is that they won't be truly connected to that person. Maybe without that connection your R didn't feel authentic to the W, and that's why she made the poor decision to cheat. Maybe she was looking for that connection, though that was a poor way to go about it.

 

That makes sense, but I didn't expect her to cheat, I just knew it was possible, given her past, her personality, and other factors. I knew that if everything came together the right way at the right time, she'd be looking for something else. I had hoped by then, risking what we had together would mean more to her than what she'd get from an A. Unfortunately (this will sound weird, stay with me here...), we had an awesome M - which allowed her to mask/ignore the issues she needed to deal with. Then she hit mid 40's, she didn't look 25 anymore (she looked 30), my parents died - so I went through a period of mourning/depression, which meant I wasn't propping her up for that period ... pretty much exactly the "perfect storm" I envisioned before our wedding (without knowing all the details).

 

There was no wall. She had all of me, and then some. (before you go there, I had no though my GF would ever show back up in my life... she was nothing more than a fond memory.)

 

W and I were as connected as anyone could ever be. We were the "it" couple, the perfect couple - the couple everyone envied and wanted to be like. When it fell apart, *everyone* said we were the last couple they'd ever imagine would have any problems, much less split up.

 

I know exactly why W cheated, and it was all about her issues - issues she needed to deal with decades ago, but never did. Thankfully, she is finally doing that now. It's too late to help us ... but, she needs to do it for her, and she is.

 

... but did the people at (that other forum) insist that I hold onto any pain and anger I might have? I can assure you, they did. As I moved past it, I was told I it was all still there, I was just hiding it, lying to them and myself. I was told I needed to embrace it and deal with it on *their* timetable.

[SoMovinOn]

How can one adequately "prepare" for that... for a situation they have never been in before? Even if they know it "could" happen, how can one prepare so that it won't hurt them so much if it does happen?

 

Well, the truth is, one cannot ever be prepared for everything, nor can one ever be prepared "enough". Surely, no matter how much one is prepared, there will still be circumstances which can come up for which there is nothing they could have done.

 

... but ... and I think we may be about at the point of beating this to death ... going to the drunk driver analogy ...

 

If I believe it is impossible a drunk driver would ever cross the center line at the last moment and hit me head on - if such an event were to unfold in front of my eyes, it's likely I'd not even see it. I wouldn't even consider it until metal was crunching against metal. Certainly, at that point, there is nothing I can do.

 

However, if I am at least aware it is possible ... then perhaps I am looking as far ahead as possible, identifying potential problems and identifying potential escape routes. Doing so, maybe I notice something doesn't seem quite right about that car approaching me. Maybe I notice the shoulder to my right is large and free of obstructions. *Maybe*, as he starts to cross the center line at that last moment, I move over to the right onto the shoulder, and we miss each other... Maybe ...

 

... or maybe, in spite of every effort I make, he hits me anyway. Life is hell like that sometimes.

 

How does that apply to infidelity? Just that maybe if you see it coming, you can do something different and it won't happen. Or, maybe you'd see it coming, do everything you could, and it happens anyway. At least in the latter case, you'd not getting hit in the back of the head with a 2 ton bat that you never saw coming. It may not make it hurt any less, it may not make it any less devastating ... or, maybe it will. At the very least, it saves you from the feeling of wondering why you didn't see it, right?

[donnamaybe]

That makes sense, but I didn't expect her to cheat, I just knew it was possible, given her past, her personality, and other factors. I knew that if everything came together the right way at the right time, she'd be looking for something else. I had hoped by then, risking what we had together would mean more to her than what she'd get from an A. Unfortunately (this will sound weird, stay with me here...), we had an awesome M - which allowed her to mask/ignore the issues she needed to deal with. Then she hit mid 40's, she didn't look 25 anymore (she looked 30), my parents died - so I went through a period of mourning/depression, which meant I wasn't propping her up for that period ... pretty much exactly the "perfect storm" I envisioned before our wedding (without knowing all the details).

 

There was no wall. She had all of me, and then some. (before you go there, I had no though my GF would ever show back up in my life... she was nothing more than a fond memory.)

 

W and I were as connected as anyone could ever be. We were the "it" couple, the perfect couple - the couple everyone envied and wanted to be like. When it fell apart, *everyone* said we were the last couple they'd ever imagine would have any problems, much less split up.

 

I know exactly why W cheated, and it was all about her issues - issues she needed to deal with decades ago, but never did. Thankfully, she is finally doing that now. It's too late to help us ... but, she needs to do it for her, and she is.

 

... but did the people at (that other forum) insist that I hold onto any pain and anger I might have? I can assure you, they did. As I moved past it, I was told I it was all still there, I was just hiding it, lying to them and myself. I was told I needed to embrace it and deal with it on *their* timetable.

Well no wonder you say to not be surprised when a cheater cheats.

 

Do you not feel worthy of a woman who doesn't give clear signs she is apt to betray you? No acrimony at all intended with that question. I would prefer to see people happy in a healthy R, even if they do piss me off from time to time.

 

I used to make excuses for my R partners' shortcomings; one who was kind of an irresponsible goofball with a knack for putting his family too far down his priority list, one selfish prick, and another who had a hard time getting along with his co-workers and flitting from job to job, barely paying his way. No more of that for me.

[SoMovinOn]

Huh? I never mention the word wrong.

 

... but I did. I think A's are wrong. I think if someone is done with their M, they should get out, *then* start dating.

 

 

I said "lesser deal". From what you write, that is exactly what is sounds like, infidelity is a lesser deal to you than to most.

 

I doubt it. I think there are all sorts of better answers than an A. I think an A is the worst answer possible.

 

 

For some people, infidelity is a deal breaker...

 

I always said it was... from before we ever got M. I told my W if I ever caught her cheating on me, she'd be out the door the minute I found out. I was wrong. I let her stay, because she said she wanted to.

 

You stuck around through multiple betrayals...

 

Well, yes and no. There was only one D-Day... just to be clear. I didn't discover one A, then deal with it, then she had another A ... Although there were multiple A's, I discovered definitive proof of them all at once, one D-Day, one time dealing with it and getting past it.

 

 

Now you are with another woman who is cheating. What is that if it isn't a lesser deal.

 

I'm sure I'll get some crap about this, but ... I want to be clear on this too ... this isn't an A where I was looking for a date... This is a woman I have loved for most of my life. I screwed up a long time ago and I'm getting a second chance.

 

I'm on the way out, she says she wants out ... we could have waited until we were both D, or at least, both separated, but, realizing that would take some time, we made the selfish decision to have our relationship now. It's wrong in so many ways, but ... weighing everything, that was our choice.

 

 

In my experience, it is the most loving and trusting people who will be most devastated by deep betrayal.

 

I can assure you, you're wrong if you think I am any less, or that I wasn't.

 

One can get over hurt by never really caring in the first place ... or, like me, one can simply choose to always move forward, not holding on to the past, pain, anger, hurt ... because in holding on to those things, the only person who suffers is you.

[SoMovinOn]

Do you not feel worthy of a woman who doesn't give clear signs she is apt to betray you?

 

I love who I love. I don't get to pick that.

 

My W and I had 15 awesome years. No regrets.

 

I'm living to get everything I can out of today, without worries about how it might fall apart tomorrow - I have no assurance I'll be here tomorrow.

 

Then again... I also have a saying "Live like there's no tomorrow, but don't count on it!"

[donnamaybe]

I love who I love. I don't get to pick that.

 

My W and I had 15 awesome years. No regrets.

 

I'm living to get everything I can out of today, without worries about how it might fall apart tomorrow - I have no assurance I'll be here tomorrow.

 

Then again... I also have a saying "Live like there's no tomorrow, but don't count on it!"

 

I have to admire and respect a man to love him. I couldn't admire or respect anyone who would carry on A after A like that or a long term one where the lying continues. Now lust - that's another story. Funny how it took me so long to figure out the difference. My man's penis could fall off tomorrow and it would matter naught to my level of commitment to him.

[Stellar Wench]

Doesn't it get used?

You must be used to the opposite, but when things get used too much they sometimes fall off.

[donnamaybe]

Doesn't it get used?

Um, yeah. It was rhetorical.

 

If your "beloved" had a medical situation where he lost the sexual use of his, would you dump him? Apparently so.

[frozensprouts]

You must be used to the opposite, but when things get used too much they sometimes fall off.

:laugh::laugh:

 

 

 

what i want to know is how would they put it back on? crazy glue? velcro? silly putty?

 

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[bentnotbroken]

:laugh::laugh:

 

 

 

what i want to know is how would they put it back on? crazy glue? velcro? silly putty?

 

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

 

Cement......

[donnamaybe]

Cement......

As in rubber cement? You know if you get your nose too close to that stuff for too long you get light headed, right?

[donnamaybe]

I recall that being part of her marriage vows.

Now there's a special kind of "love."

[18Years2Late]

Um, yeah. It was rhetorical.

 

If your "beloved" had a medical situation where he lost the sexual use of his, would you dump him? Apparently so.

 

Um...seeing how long it's been since I had one to use...I'd have to say yes :o...

[donnamaybe]

Um...seeing how long it's been since I had one to use...I'd have to say yes :o...

You want someone to love you so little in return? A person is made up of so much more than their sexual organ.

 

What a sad situation.

[Owl]

Odd that you don't understand what I do say, but you *do* understand something I have never said. I think A's are terrible, wrong, devastating... always have, and I've always said that here.

 

SMO, here's where I'm confused. And it may be that I simply have stories crossed in my mind and have your situation totally wrong in my head.

 

I THOUGHT that your wife had cheated on you sometime ago, and you "dealt with it". And NOW, you're currently in an affair type relationship with someone outside of your marriage.

 

If I was wrong, I apologize. If I'm right, then I struggle with understanding the break between your words ("A's are terrible") and your actions (in having an affair of your own).

 

We tell many people here that words are just words, but actions are indicators of beliefs/intent/character.

 

Again, if I've got that wrong, that could explain a lot on why I've not quite tracked with your posts and comments.

[18Years2Late]

You want someone to love you so little in return? A person is made up of so much more than their sexual organ.

 

What a sad situation.

 

You have no idea how sad it is...

 

So if u were stranding in a desert for a week and u walked up on George Clooney (or any other hot man of your choosing) naked and holding a glass of water...would u not see more than the glass of water in his hand?...

[Permenthri]

You have no idea how sad it is...

 

So if u were stranding in a desert for a week and u walked up on George Clooney (or any other hot man of your choosing) naked and holding a glass of water...would u not see more than the glass of water in his hand?...

 

I would hope for a mojito rather than water to be in that glass.

[donnamaybe]

I don't have a "beloved".

Ahhhhh. I see.

[donnamaybe]

That's not what rhetorical means. Could you please explain what you mean by your non-standard use of the word?

Oh, gee. Sorry. I'm sure everyone else could figure out I meant "hypothetical" since it was a statement and not a question.

[donnamaybe]

LOL! Hail the abundant monikers. One for each day of the week would make life interesting.

My life is already interesting. Others... apparently not so much.

[SoMovinOn]

I have to admire and respect a man to love him.

 

I love someone for who they are, ... without judging them for imperfections, mistakes, indiscretions.

 

One person I trust more than anyone I know, who I'd trust with my life... was convicted of murder and did time in prison. ... but then, I think it's likely overall, that I hang with a bit tougher crowd than you.

[SoMovinOn]

I THOUGHT that your wife had cheated on you sometime ago, and you "dealt with it".

 

Correct. I was over the A's, willing to R. She never quite got there. We agreed to split. Due to financial, health and some other considerations, we are separated but living together. That will end soon.

 

 

And NOW, you're currently in an affair type relationship with someone outside of your marriage.

 

It's a full on, secret A. She is M. Her H knows nothing about us. (my STBXW has known about it from the beginning)

 

 

If I'm right, then I struggle with understanding the break between your words ("A's are terrible") and your actions (in having an affair of your own).

 

Really? There is often incongruity between words and actions. Humans are far too complex, relationships are far too complex, to boil everything down to simple bumper sticker philosophies.

 

Such as...

 

We tell many people here that words are just words, but actions are indicators of beliefs/intent/character.

 

Actions are just actions. You can't understand something by looking at one single factor. You need to look at everything, words, actions, motivations, previous actions, environment, the details of the situation... before you can even begin to claim to understand someone.

 

 

Again, if I've got that wrong, that could explain a lot on why I've not quite tracked with your posts and comments.

 

You're spot on. ... you just don't understand me or this situation (or, you completely understand, and disagree).

 

How can I think A's are terrible, yet willingly involve myself in one?

... because I think not having this relationship with this particular woman, would be worse. We struggled for 7 months, over getting involved or waiting. Neither of us likes the idea of being involved in a secret A. Neither of us would have cheated on our spouse in any circumstance other than this one.

 

If we weren't both already planning on getting out of our M's - we would almost surely not be involved in our A. (I think the reason she looked for me and contacted me is exactly that ... she was ready to get out).

 

If my M was fine, if we hadn't agreed to D, I'd not cheat on her.

 

One of the issues GF and I both had with getting involved in an A, is the reality we'd both be proving ourselves willing to be involved in an A, and all the lying and deceit that goes with it. It's something we can't erase and will forever be a part of our R.

 

For me, part of the decision was...

"Nice guys finish last"

"The meek shall inherit the earth - one 6 foot plot at a time"

... I've been the nice guy. Did everything for my W (and still do). She lived a charmed life. Everything she dreamed was hers. She helped me come up with the quote;

"If you try to give someone everything, it will never be enough"

... and she blew it, big time. Repeatedly. Even up until recently, she uses and abuses me.

 

SO ... after weighing all the factors, and the one biggest "pro" being, neither GF or I wanted to miss a second chance at this, or miss any more time after all these years apart - we made the selfish choice to be involved now, rather than waiting. For *me*, part of that was - screw being a nice guy, screw doing the right thing... I'm going to take what I want *now*, live life today ... because, we could do the right thing and wait a couple of years ... and one of us could die before it ever happens.

 

I am in this A with her because we have shared a love that spans most of our lives. We should have always been together. We would have always been together, except I blew it. She loved me enough to forgive me for that, for hurting her like I did. No way in hell I'm going to risk blowing it a second time, or, missing it due to circumstances beyond our control.

 

... and all that is just the tip of the iceberg.

[jaloka]

i accept 1-6 except the sex part. i have been with my MM for 6 years now. the reason MM strayed is that he wasn't getting any at home for over 5 years. so our EMA was purely physical, on and off, for the 3 three years and now steady, loving relationship the last 3 years. i know ocassionally they do it since last summer because MM gave his BW an ultimatum, open marriage or he walks. well dumb broad said she would give him borin old sex. grrr. lol. it's so rare that we dont talk about it.

Edited February 17, 2012 by jaloka