MM/OW Sex with BS...Dealbreaker???

[MissBee]

The effect of affairs on children, whether they find out, are told, or just feel the effect on their home environment, could fill several threads on its own. But just wanted to say, good for you for talking your daughter out of writing to the OW. I think this is a common reaction, but, really what good could come of it. In general, I think age appropriate honesty is again the best policy, as children often know or suspect without telling their parents and they should have an outlet for voicing their fears and asking questions.

 

I agree. Kids are pretty perceptive, even young ones, much more those in their teen years. I knew that ever since I was young, my dad did stuff that seemed very suspicious to me when my mom wasn't around and I didn't say anything about it as a kid...but it registered. Later on when I became more aware and when my mom admitted these things or we overheard arguments was when I could trace back to ever since I was a kid and I noticed his behavior was askew or how they related to each other was off too. I did lose some respect for him and for both of them, in that I felt angry that my mom was still with him. But whether it was said or not said...I knew, and my sister and I would discuss it between us.

 

So yes...if that should happen, it's a delicate situation, but honesty is the best policy, as you lying or pretending won't work and will probably mess your kids up more than if you provided that open forum.

 

It's just a bad situation all around, as there is no cute way to say what's going on and as the BS, you're now in a predicament you didn't ask to be in, that will be uncomfortable no matter what.

[RecordProducer]

I can tell you it was hell and I've often thought how much kinder a divorce would have been instead of the constant going back and forth and upheaval that we were subjected to. Infidelity is a cruel act upon children, not just the spouse.

Thanks for sharing, LG. You do realize though that your mom stayed with your dad partially - if not solely - because of you, the kids, right? There were obviously several children for whom she wanted to preserve a two-parent household. She probably never realized how much it affected you. Also, unless she was a successful creer woman or your dad was rich enough to pay generous child support and alimony, she wasn't much in a position to just move out and show him. Not to make you feel guilty - you did nothing - but having kids is what inhibits many women from doing many things in life. Those who disregard their kids as a factor in their decisions (or even worse, find excuses like divorce is better for the kids) end up with angry kids, too. You've only been on one side of the story: a child in a bad marriage. I've been on the other side of the parents' marriage story: torn by my parents' divorce.

 

I would give up almost anything I have achieved in my life to have my parents still married, even if they cheated on each other and argued every day. Anything short of verbal and physical abuse would have saved me from all the repeated trauma I've gone through in my life due to my mother's stupid decisions and her second marriage to a monster who abused both of us (me, sexually, too - she divorced him, but too late, after 18 years).

 

At the end of the day, seeing all these people in their 60s and 70s, divorced and lonely, makes me think I really don't want to end up like this someday. I don't think all the social activities organized in the lounge room of an apartment complex for seniors can replace a spouse. On the other hand, I do agree that your mom could have divorced your dad and re-married happily. Bottom line: bad marriages are bad for the kids; divorces are bad for the kids. Parents should try to be loyal and respectful and work on their marriages for the benefit of their children. Your mom did her end of the deal - that was my wholepoint. Sadly, it was your dad who didn't.

 

How does giving you a pair of earrings and a bracelet prove that things were serious? If it was so serious wouldn't the MM have done what he needed to do to make things right? Like divorcing his wife and planning his future with you?

You're beating a dead horse here. Auntie said the affair was over and she had nice memories from it. Just because he didn't leave his wife for her doesn't mean he didn't care about her - it's not black or white. Breaking up your own family is much worse than cheating, so I respect him more for choosing to keep his family than if he decided to follow his own urge to be with the woman he loved. I don't know why some people immediately assume that if MM really loved his OW, he would've definitely torn his family apart just to indulge his romantic heart.

 

Some people are more selfless and sacrificing than that; they actually put their kids before their love lives. I, as a woman, would not dump my kids' father, knowing that I will see my kids only part-time - just so I can be with my lovely boyfriend, no matter how unbearably in love I may be. We make choices between one thing we want to do and another thing we don't want to do - but have to - all the time. Just like wed on't feel like waking up in the morning and putting up with bosses or clients, but we have to for the sake of a more important necessity.

 

Auntie Em,

I'm so sorry that you lost your parents in such a tragic way.

But my family or friends would never have accepted an adulterous relationship.

Well, I guess your parents are better people than Auntie's parents were? We get the point.

 

RP,

 

I'm a bit confused about your post.

 

Doesn't all women that get involved with a MM realize they are sharing the man with his wife? Yet still choose to pursue a relationship with him.

The topic is not whether OW understand they have to be willing to share him, but how they feel about it. I think it's not natural to feel okay about a woman sharing her man unless borrowing another woman's man excites her. But, maybe I am wrong. Maybe the thought of their beloved man having sex with another woman can sometimes not induce any feelings of jealousy? Maybe it's just me.

[woinlove]

 

You're beating a dead horse here. Auntie said the affair was over and she had nice memories from it. Just because he didn't leave his wife for her doesn't mean he didn't care about her - it's not black or white. Breaking up your own family is much worse than cheating, so I respect him more for choosing to keep his family than if he decided to follow his own urge to be with the woman he loved. I don't know why some people immediately assume that if MM really loved his OW, he would've definitely torn his family apart just to indulge his romantic heart.

 

Some people are more selfless and sacrificing than that; they actually put their kids before their love lives. I, as a woman, would not dump my kids' father, knowing that I will see my kids only part-time - just so I can be with my lovely boyfriend, no matter how unbearably in love I may be. We make choices between one thing we want to do and another thing we don't want to do - but have to - all the time. Just like wed on't feel like waking up in the morning and putting up with bosses or clients, but we have to for the sake of a more important necessity.

 

 

I would not describe having a secret affair and bringing all that deception into one's family as being selfless and sacrificing or putting the kids before their life love. It is selfish behavior and putting their love life before the children. After the fact, after they've cheated, sometimes the best thing for the M to end, other times to repair the M and home life. In many cases I've seen described, it seems it takes the WS a while to start putting anyone but him or herself first. Although in other cases, the WS appears to "wake up" with d-day, is remorseful and determined to try to put their family first. Those latter cases may be them putting others first, but, in general, in affairs it seems "for the kids" is invoked more often than it is true.

[RecordProducer]

Life is hard sometimes as all of us know.

 

Hugs RP!

I am so sorry to hear about all your troubles. I myself am twice divorced and my kids are from my first marriage. Yes, it's hard to live with all the emotional drama. I wish I could trade everything for a peace of mind - not that I have much to trade!

Hugs back, LG!

[RecordProducer]

I would not describe having a secret affair and bringing all that deception into one's family as being selfless and sacrificing or putting the kids before their life love. It is selfish behavior and putting their love life before the children.

Well, duh, but people make mistakes and that goes for both the cheater and the cheater's spouse. Divorcing your spouse because they cheated is putting your ego before your children's need for a two-parent household. I am not saying it's the wrong thing to do, I am just saying it is prioritizing one's ego.

[woinlove]

Well, duh, but people make mistakes and that goes for both the cheater and the cheater's spouse. Divorcing your spouse because they cheated is putting your ego before your children's need for a two-parent household. I am not saying it's the wrong thing to do, I am just saying it is prioritizing one's ego.

 

I don't agree. Divorcing a cheating spouse could be the best thing for the children. It's not enough to simply share the same postal code -- it's important that the parents can act as a team, showing respect and loyalty to the family. If one can't have that, and I don't think one can have that with a cheating spouse, then I think a parent would be acting in the children's best interests to divorce and establish the best environment they can on their own. If the cheating stops and the person changes, they might be able to rebuild a solid M and a safe and loving home for their children.

 

Sometimes people stay married to a cheater for their own personal reasons (fear of being alone, not willing to give up the lifestyle) and the children end up paying. The idea that divorcing a cheating spouse is selfish, putting one's own ego first, and is not in the children's best interest is simply wrong in many cases. One can't generalize - sometimes the best decision is to divorce and sometimes it isn't.

[beenburned]

I personally would never stay married to a spouse that wouldn't stop cheating!

 

The only successful reconciliations are the ones where the cheating spouse changes his ways, never to cheat again. There will be no more chances if they repeat their behavior.

 

You can not allow someone to constantly disrespect you by cheating.

 

I'm sorry for those of you that had bad childhoods!

 

My H's uncle died of cancer when he was only 28 yrs old. He had 3 beautiful daughters all under of the age of 5. Their mother married a monster that molested all of them throughout their teen years.

 

All of them have been through counseling as adults to better deal with their own families.

[donnamaybe]

I don't agree. Divorcing a cheating spouse could be the best thing for the children. It's not enough to simply share the same postal code -- it's important that the parents can act as a team, showing respect and loyalty to the family. If one can't have that, and I don't think one can have that with a cheating spouse, then I think a parent would be acting in the children's best interests to divorce and establish the best environment they can on their own. If the cheating stops and the person changes, they might be able to rebuild a solid M and a safe and loving home for their children.

 

Sometimes people stay married to a cheater for their own personal reasons (fear of being alone, not willing to give up the lifestyle) and the children end up paying. The idea that divorcing a cheating spouse is selfish, putting one's own ego first, and is not in the children's best interest is simply wrong in many cases. One can't generalize - sometimes the best decision is to divorce and sometimes it isn't.

 

I absolutely agree! Labeling a marriage someone's "love life" is diminishing all that a partnership stands for, part of which is to provide an example to the children of a loving R. If you want YOUR (general your) children to grow up completely disregarding honesty and integrity in their R's, just turn a blind eye and accept the cheating. Kids are not stupid. They will eventually know the truth of the state of their parents' marriage.

[alexandria35]

Well, duh, but people make mistakes and that goes for both the cheater and the cheater's spouse. Divorcing your spouse because they cheated is putting your ego before your children's need for a two-parent household. I am not saying it's the wrong thing to do, I am just saying it is prioritizing one's ego.

 

LOL..now there's some creative spin doctoring. Cheaters are selfless and sacraficing, BS's who divorce are putting their egos above their childrens needs. Are you a cheating MW? Sounds like it and it sounds like if you get caught and your family suffers as a result of your husband divorcing you, you are going to blame it all on him and his big ego.

 

There is nothing sacraficing or selfless about having an affair. Affairs are selfish and a parent who is really prioritzing their children would never risk the pain and devastation that an affair could potentially bring to the family.

 

There is nothing wrong with reconcilling with a one time cheater so long as it's a true reconcillation. Allowing someone to continue to lie, deceive and cheat is not recovering the marriage, it's setting a horrible example for the children.

[MissBee]

LOL..now there's some creative spin doctoring. Cheaters are selfless and sacraficing, BS's who divorce are putting their egos above their childrens needs. Are you a cheating MW? Sounds like it and it sounds like if you get caught and your family suffers as a result of your husband divorcing you, you are going to blame it all on him and his big ego.

 

There is nothing sacraficing or selfless about having an affair. Affairs are selfish and a parent who is really prioritzing their children would never risk the pain and devastation that an affair could potentially bring to the family.

 

There is nothing wrong with reconcilling with a one time cheater so long as it's a true reconcillation. Allowing someone to continue to lie, deceive and cheat is not recovering the marriage, it's setting a horrible example for the children.

 

I definitely agree.

 

No one wants their parents to split up. Working on one's marriage FOR REAL (not just cheating behind their backs while you pretend to be a good spouse and have a sham for your kids' sake [who also won't be fooled]) is laudable. But if it is not working out, you owe it to your kids and your self to end it amicably and do EVERYTHING possible to foster a new arrangement in which they feel no less love, they feel no enmity between the parents, they still see them working as a team and loving them and being decent people towards each other.

 

Of course if one started an affair BEFORE making a concerted effort to communicate and work on the marriage or end things (aside from the people OWoman knows who she says they all went to marriage counseling before they had an A )....then it will be pretty darn hard for your spouse to not resent you and for your image not to be tarnished. It is a lot harder to co-parent when one has given the other reasons to resent them...esp one as hurtful as many find As to be.

 

Divorce is hard, even when infidelity is not involved, but when it comes down to it, I think kids can't be shielded from all harsh realities and your job is to explain some of these realities but make them feel safe and loved amidst those realities. I remember my sister and I wishing our parents would divorce versus fight all the time. Now as an adult, I don't want them to split up, as I can't imagine my family any other way....BUT if they needed to, then I would understand and support it, so long as they are happy elsewhere. Sadly, I doubt my dad, who did all the cheating would be happy smh. He has issues I am sure he needs to work on and I am sure my mom "freeing" him to pursue all the women he wants would devastate him....smh.) I can see my mom moving on much better than he would, as to be a serial cheater, there has to be an emptiness one is trying to fill up that is outside of your spouse or any of these random OW....but that's a tangent.

[18Years2Late]

Thanks for sharing, LG. You do realize though that your mom stayed with your dad partially - if not solely - because of you, the kids, right? There were obviously several children for whom she wanted to preserve a two-parent household. She probably never realized how much it affected you. Also, unless she was a successful creer woman or your dad was rich enough to pay generous child support and alimony, she wasn't much in a position to just move out and show him. Not to make you feel guilty - you did nothing - but having kids is what inhibits many women from doing many things in life. Those who disregard their kids as a factor in their decisions (or even worse, find excuses like divorce is better for the kids) end up with angry kids, too. You've only been on one side of the story: a child in a bad marriage. I've been on the other side of the parents' marriage story: torn by my parents' divorce.

 

I would give up almost anything I have achieved in my life to have my parents still married, even if they cheated on each other and argued every day. Anything short of verbal and physical abuse would have saved me from all the repeated trauma I've gone through in my life due to my mother's stupid decisions and her second marriage to a monster who abused both of us (me, sexually, too - she divorced him, but too late, after 18 years).

 

Do you think that if your mother had moved on to a happy, functional, non-abusive R/M that you would feel the same or would you still want your parents married (assuming their M wasn't happy or functional either)?

 

At the end of the day, seeing all these people in their 60s and 70s, divorced and lonely, makes me think I really don't want to end up like this someday. I don't think all the social activities organized in the lounge room of an apartment complex for seniors can replace a spouse. On the other hand, I do agree that your mom could have divorced your dad and re-married happily. Bottom line: bad marriages are bad for the kids; divorces are bad for the kids. Parents should try to be loyal and respectful and work on their marriages for the benefit of their children. Your mom did her end of the deal - that was my wholepoint. Sadly, it was your dad who didn't.

 

You're beating a dead horse here. Auntie said the affair was over and she had nice memories from it. Just because he didn't leave his wife for her doesn't mean he didn't care about her - it's not black or white. Breaking up your own family is much worse than cheating, so I respect him more for choosing to keep his family than if he decided to follow his own urge to be with the woman he loved. I don't know why some people immediately assume that if MM really loved his OW, he would've definitely torn his family apart just to indulge his romantic heart.

 

Some people are more selfless and sacrificing than that; they actually put their kids before their love lives. I, as a woman, would not dump my kids' father, knowing that I will see my kids only part-time - just so I can be with my lovely boyfriend, no matter how unbearably in love I may be. We make choices between one thing we want to do and another thing we don't want to do - but have to - all the time. Just like wed on't feel like waking up in the morning and putting up with bosses or clients, but we have to for the sake of a more important necessity.

 

So totally agree!!!...that's one thing I'll never fault my xMM for...staying bc of the kids...however I think we are in the minority here...

 

Well, I guess your parents are better people than Auntie's parents were? We get the point.

 

The topic is not whether OW understand they have to be willing to share him, but how they feel about it. I think it's not natural to feel okay about a woman sharing her man unless borrowing another woman's man excites her. But, maybe I am wrong. Maybe the thought of their beloved man having sex with another woman can sometimes not induce any feelings of jealousy? Maybe it's just me.

 

See bolded above...

[bentnotbroken]

Well, duh, but people make mistakes and that goes for both the cheater and the cheater's spouse. Divorcing your spouse because they cheated is putting your ego before your children's need for a two-parent household. I am not saying it's the wrong thing to do, I am just saying it is prioritizing one's ego.

 

 

Not only is this opinion not the truth for most parents who divorce with cheating as a component, but nothing about leaving an unhealthy situation says putting your ego first. I don't know know what your reasons were for leaving either spouse(not a factor) but if you think that your parents divorcing is the reason you make the choices you do.... that works up to a point. Then we must take responsibility for all our decisions no matter the marital status of our parents. Prioritizing one's ego might actually include leaving for the sake of the children instead of staying in the comfort of your home or lifestyle. Just sayin.

[frozensprouts]

The idea that one parent can have an affair( or affairs) and it still not affect the children should the spouses choose to stay together is pretty unlikely.

Even if both parents do their best to hide it from their children, they most likely will still be affected.

Secrets have a way of comming out, whether you want them to or not, and the betrayed spouse, unless she has zero feelings for her husband or zero pride in herself will, at some point, let her feelings show. Her kids won't know why mom is so unhappy, and may blame themselves or get very angry. If they ask questions, mom will have to lie to cover up dad's behavior, and what's that going to teach the kids?

how are the kids going to feel when, as adults, they learn that dad was cheating on mom and the only reason mom stayed with dad and put up with his cheating (I am assuming we are talking about a long term affair that continues after the wife finds out about it , not one that ends when the wife finds out and both spouses agree to work on the marriage) was for the kids. The only reason she endured years of pain and humiliation was because of her kids....imagine the feelings of guilt that could induce.

 

Cheating is a form of emotional abuse, and no woman (or man) should have to put up with it ...and no parent should ever show their children, by example , that they should have to endure it.

[Spark1111]

The idea that one parent can have an affair( or affairs) and it still not affect the children should the spouses choose to stay together is pretty unlikely.

Even if both parents do their best to hide it from their children, they most likely will still be affected.

Secrets have a way of comming out, whether you want them to or not, and the betrayed spouse, unless she has zero feelings for her husband or zero pride in herself will, at some point, let her feelings show. Her kids won't know why mom is so unhappy, and may blame themselves or get very angry. If they ask questions, mom will have to lie to cover up dad's behavior, and what's that going to teach the kids?

how are the kids going to feel when, as adults, they learn that dad was cheating on mom and the only reason mom stayed with dad and put up with his cheating (I am assuming we are talking about a long term affair that continues after the wife finds out about it , not one that ends when the wife finds out and both spouses agree to work on the marriage) was for the kids. The only reason she endured years of pain and humiliation was because of her kids....imagine the feelings of guilt that could induce.

 

Cheating is a form of emotional abuse, and no woman (or man) should have to put up with it ...and no parent should ever show their children, by example , that they should have to endure it.[/QUOTE]

 

The latest studies in child psych, a field closely scrutinized by my industry is this: It is not how happy mom and dad are (kids could give a rat's patootie about your romantic happiness) as it is the degree of ACRIMONY in either the marriage or the divorce.

 

So if married and you treat each other with kindness and respect, regardless of an affair, the kids will be fine. No sarcasm. petty digs and arguments, power plays, etc.

 

If divorced, or heading to divorce, and you treat each other with kindness and respect, the kids will be okay.

 

Be sad, lonely, angry, vindictive, preoccupied, depressed about your marriage or your divorce, your kids are on their way to lifelong issues and messed up-ness. Kids love mommy and daddy equally!

 

We always have a choice on how we CHOOSE to respond to the actions of our SO. The damage is done when we do not act like a mature adult in control of our emotions in front of our children.

[18Years2Late]

so the mm does 85% of the childcare. how? does he work fulltime outside the home? did you go to his home to have your affair? or was it outside of his marital home? so between work and his affair, who was taking care of the kids? was he home every day when the kids got home from school to help with homework, make dinner, etc? if he was doing all this, how did he have time for an affair? how much time did he spend with you daily/weekly (including texting, phone calls, in person). how much time did he spend with his kids?

 

did he take off when the kids were sick? did he take them to doctors/dentist appointments? did he go to parent teacher conferences?

 

so many times, the ow loves to preach about what a great dad these kids have, yet he is 'out of town' with his ow or playing with her after work. how exactly is that a good dad? he isn't a good role model, that's for sure.

 

as for the emotions a betrayed spouse goes through during d day, how do you expect a woman to react when she finds out her husband has been off playing hide the sausage with another woman? how do you expect her to react when she finds dirty text messages? how do you expect her to react when she finds out family money has been spent on the mistress? is she supposed to hold her anger until the kids are in bed? her reaction is a direct effect of his behavior. had he not cheated, then the kids wouldn't have to watch mom implode. we read on here about ow who can't get out of bed for days after the affair ends and that behavior is 'okay' cause she is mourning; yet a wife, who has been lied to, betrayed and had her life implode is supposed to suck it up?

 

We are long distance...only saw him F2F twice in 18 months...so yes...he was home with his kids every day except for 8 days in 18 months...he didn't spend all the marital money on me...don't need it...didn't expect it...he did buy me several small gifts but nothing he needed a loan for...we shared the expenses of both trips...at my request...I have a lot more extendible income than he does...but mostly it was because I didn't want him to get caught...H and I don't share money...his job is more flexible than her's and the kids r in school all day...he cooks...spends all weekend doing things with them and she doesn't participate...how do I know?...bc unless he was calling and texting me right in front of her...she wasn't there...and she has told me herself she doesn't like to do those things (TMI...would give away where he lives)...

 

Also...I'm a xMOW with a H and 3 kids...no dday on my end...after the A ended your dam right it was hard for me to get out of bed and just function for days...hell no months...but you know what?...I did it...I did what I had to do to protect my children from knowing anything was amiss...so u know what else?...it can be done...just like people say that MM will move mountains to be with u if he wants to...a mother will move those same mountainseven farther to protect her kids...if she wants to...not saying everyone reacts to trauma the same way...but just saying it can he done...but the BW in my sitch failed miserably at protecting her children...and still is...

[seren]

My son was in his early 20's when he came home early and heard me and H having the most almighty screaming match when he told me about the A (me screaming, he not). When my son walked through the door I could have ripped my tongue out. I asked if he had heard, which of course he had, I then said OK, you need to go and give your Dad a hug, he needs it and that the A didn't mean he had to take sides. That was truly the first thing I said and thought of, don't quite know why as I sure needed a hug myself, but the presevation of their relationship meant everything.

 

My son did indeed go hug his Dad, told him he loved him, but that he was a pr***. Son then came into the kitchen where I was helping myself to gin, hugged me and then said that it explained why H had been acting so weird and had been such a different person. I have to say I think I acted on autopilot. Had our son been younger, he would still have noticed the changed, often distant behavoiur and noticed that I was upset a lot. Kids are far more perceptive than we give them credit for and they blame themselves if ther parents aren't getting along.

 

I don't think staying with the WS is good for the children, EXCEPT, if it is done with both agreeing terms and conditions and both sticking to it. if the WS was saying one thing and doing another, that would soon be felt by everyone. I cannot think of anything more cruel well of course I can) than someone continuing an A after D day and promising NC, this is no reconciliation and certainly is nothing for the WS to be applauded for.

 

Divorce can sometimes be a positive thing for families, if, the parents act responsibly and put the wellbeing of their children first. makes me so mad when people use children as both excuses and pawns. As for people with crap childhood's using this as a reason they have A's. Well, if you (general) know that, then get help, do something about it and don't allow your past to make you a victim, I speak as an A student in crap childhood's. I use mine to ensure that my son never, ever got to feel as I did.

 

My H's fear was that our son would hate him for what he did, I am so glad that, that isn't the case. No one's children should be used as pieces of a game, but then in an ideal world, people would leave before potentially considering breaking up the family, to think that continuing to have A's does not impact upon the children is naive and possibly wishful thinking, if only for the weird behaviour that goes on when the A is in full swing.

[frozensprouts]

The latest studies in child psych, a field closely scrutinized by my industry is this: It is not how happy mom and dad are (kids could give a rat's patootie about your romantic happiness) as it is the degree of ACRIMONY in either the marriage or the divorce.

 

So if married and you treat each other with kindness and respect, regardless of an affair, the kids will be fine. No sarcasm. petty digs and arguments, power plays, etc.

 

If divorced, or heading to divorce, and you treat each other with kindness and respect, the kids will be okay.

 

Be sad, lonely, angry, vindictive, preoccupied, depressed about your marriage or your divorce, your kids are on their way to lifelong issues and messed up-ness. Kids love mommy and daddy equally!

 

We always have a choice on how we CHOOSE to respond to the actions of our SO. The damage is done when we do not act like a mature adult in control of our emotions in front of our children.

 

I see what you are saying, but I wonder how many women or men could consonantly look the other way and show no emotional reaction to their spouses long term affair...

 

How many people could continue, for years and years, to never show any kind of emotional response to their spouses cheating? I would expect it would be really hard, as most kids, as they get older, will know when something is bothering mom or dad. No matter how much we lie to protect them, they find out the truth anyway. i know more than a few adults who knew dad was cheating on mom or who found out when they were an adult, and it bothers them a lot...but at least now they know what was going on all those years.

 

If the children do find out one day that dad was cheating on mom for years and years and mom just put up with it and lied to hide it, what has this taught the kids?

 

 

 

that women should have to put up with being treated badly by their husbands ( or men by their wives, if the situation is reversed)

 

that dishonesty is okay and an acceptable way to solve a problem

 

that emotions need to be suppressed and a happy "facade" be kept n place , no matter how bad you are feeling

 

I'm not saying that the parents should drag out their dirty laundry and air it in front of the kids, rather i am saying that if a husband ( or wife) wants to continue their extra marital relationship after their spouse finds out, then their spouse should never feel obligated to stay " for the sake of the children" when they are miserable. Rather, they should end the marriage on the best terms possible...if the children need to know why, then all they need to be told is something along the lines of mom and dad still love you, but aren't happy living together anymore, and it's best for all of us if mom and dad to live apart...we will still all be a family and we still love you just as much and will do everything we can to make you happy.

[OWoman]

I told xMM once when we first started talking (because I could tell he was uncomfortable with some things...for example: going out to eat with W on Valentine's Day)...I said look...all I ask from you is total honesty...because there are some things that I know without a doubt:

 

1-you are married

2-you have sex with your W

3-you go on vacations with your family

4-you go out of eat with your family

5-you buy your W gifts on special occasions and birthdays

6-your W and family take priority over me 100% of the time*

 

Those things are not secret and are package deals when I chose to have an A with a MM...I am ok with that...and when/if they become dealbreakers I'll let u know...

 

Am I alone here?...anyone else felt like that during their A?...

 

 

Apart from #6, which ran counter to our agreement, I took those things as read, too. After all, I had a life I did not intend to give up, including other sex partners I did not intend to give up, so why should they be denied that?

 

During my last A, however, things shifted. We discovered we had both become sexually exclusive with each other as we'd fallen in love and lost all desire for any other.

 

And no, I didn't "only hear that he wasn't sleeping with his BW from the mouth of a known liar". It was her complaints about it that alerted me to the fact. Even during their D it was one of the things she hammered on and on about - how hurtful his sexual rejection of her was, how hateful he was for not finding her sexually attractive, how cold he was to walk away from her best attempts at seduction and how hard her (then) BF had to work to restore her sexual confidence.

 

I think whether sex between the MP and their BS is a dealbreaker or not depends on the nature of the negotiated R between the MP and the AP. If the MP has pledged sexual exclusivity toward the AP, and then resumes or commences sexual relations with their BS, it certainly is a betrayal of the same order as the MP having sex with the AP constitutes a betrayal of the M, and the AP has the same right to feelings of betrayal, anger, hurt etc that any person in any R might feel when confronted with the discovery of betrayal. If an explicit agreement has been broken, that is... If it was merely based on assumption (as is the case in many Ms, too) then the ground is rather shakier.

[frozensprouts]

If it was merely based on assumption (as is the case in many Ms, too) then the ground is rather shakier.

 

I don't know about where you live, but where I live, part of marriage is no having sex with people outside of the marriage ( of course, there are exceptions. The idea that people who are married shouldn't have a right to be upset that their spouse is having sex outside the marriage because they just assumed they'd be faithful and there was no actual agreement not to is ridiculous.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but you don't seem to place much value in marriage...

[donnamaybe]

I don't know about where you live, but where I live, part of marriage is no having sex with people outside of the marriage ( of course, there are exceptions. The idea that people who are married shouldn't have a right to be upset that their spouse is having sex outside the marriage because they just assumed they'd be faithful and there was no actual agreement not to is ridiculous.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but you don't seem to place much value in marriage...

Yeah, I guess one could then assume that the cheater should expect their spouse to go f'ing around too.

 

But we all know that is SO not what they want! Cake and eat it...

[18Years2Late]

Apart from #6, which ran counter to our agreement, I took those things as read, too. After all, I had a life I did not intend to give up, including other sex partners I did not intend to give up, so why should they be denied that?

 

During my last A, however, things shifted. We discovered we had both become sexually exclusive with each other as we'd fallen in love and lost all desire for any other.

 

And no, I didn't "only hear that he wasn't sleeping with his BW from the mouth of a known liar". It was her complaints about it that alerted me to the fact. Even during their D it was one of the things she hammered on and on about - how hurtful his sexual rejection of her was, how hateful he was for not finding her sexually attractive, how cold he was to walk away from her best attempts at seduction and how hard her (then) BF had to work to restore her sexual confidence.

 

I think whether sex between the MP and their BS is a dealbreaker or not depends on the nature of the negotiated R between the MP and the AP. If the MP has pledged sexual exclusivity toward the AP, and then resumes or commences sexual relations with their BS, it certainly is a betrayal of the same order as the MP having sex with the AP constitutes a betrayal of the M, and the AP has the same right to feelings of betrayal, anger, hurt etc that any person in any R might feel when confronted with the discovery of betrayal. If an explicit agreement has been broken, that is... If it was merely based on assumption (as is the case in many Ms, too) then the ground is rather shakier.

 

Exactly!!!...that's were the lying (the dealbreaker for me) comes into play...

 

If I'm told by xMM that 1-6 are not true...than I will assume the are not true...then when I found out the are true...buhbye...

 

If I don't ask...xMM does offer that info...I will always assume that 1-6 are true...

[beenburned]

There is no assumption of fidelity in marriage. There was vows said before God, family, and friends that include "forsaking all others", until death do you part.

 

And furthermore, if ANY MM/MW vowed to their AP that they would not have sex with their spouse, they need to be immediately kicked out for such brutal disrespect. Forget any forgiveness to someone that is so emotionally abusive.

[woinlove]

Since I was in love with someone who wanted to marry and I had views on monogamy which I knew to differ from the norm (it was not important to me, but full openness and honesty were) I discussed this with him ... repeatedly...in great detail...and considerable length...both before and after marriage... we still discuss it sometimes. We made sure our formal wedding vows contained no references to implied monogamy.

 

Essentially all the affairs we encounter on LS occur in locations where adultery has a legal meaning. Anyone marrying in such a location (i.e. not, for example, in a country where multiple wives are legal and perhaps expected) who does not plan to be monogamous, but keeps this information from their spouse, is not acting in a way I can respect. Perhaps this is common for a cheater, although I suspect a lot of cheaters actually actively give their spouses reason to believe they will be and are monogamous and may even value monogamy when they marry - just they decide not to tell their spouse when they change their minds. In other words, they lie and deceive.

Edited February 7, 2012 by woinlove

[MissBee]

Approaching the issue just on a basic premise of logic and rationality: if a person is married and made vows in front of family, friends and even God (for those who did this type of symbolic ceremony). If they did ALL that....and are now having a SECRET affair, behind this other person's back...how and what gives you confidence or how can you be shocked should they betray you and your INFORMAL A agreement?

 

Why would an A agreement hold more weight than a formal, marriage agreement?

 

This is a serious question I am asking. I am not arguing that all MPs lie to the AP or what have you...I'm simply asking, looking at the circumstances objectively...a MP breaking formal vows and having a secret A...how, if one is rational, can they truly be shocked that this person breaks an informal A "vow"? What rationale is behind that feeling?

 

For me...as much as I cared for him, I am also pretty rational. I didn't think he was a raving liar and if he were, I do get that A or not, you feel badly...but then isn't there a part of you that feels like it should be expected? This person's reputation has preceded them, so to speak....so to be completely shocked is as a result of ignoring certain realities and buying into the principle of uniqueness, i.e. I know they are lying to their spouse but they wouldn't do it to ME though. My question is....WHY? Why wouldn't they? What makes you different? To take it further, does it matter if you're different...so long as THEY are the same? I suppose many times people assume this person's character is not objective and stands alone outside of their relationship and imagine that the relationship has an effect on this person's behavior, so if they are with them now, then they will be different....when many times, it does not. They are themselves no matter who they or married to or having an affair with....

Edited February 7, 2012 by MissBee

[donnamaybe]

Approaching the issue just on a basic premise of logic and rationality: if a person is married and made vows in front of family, friends and even God (for those who did this type of symbolic ceremony). If they did ALL that....and are now having a SECRET affair, behind this other person's back...how and what gives you confidence or how can you be shocked should they betray you and your INFORMAL A agreement?

 

Why would an A agreement hold more weight than a formal, marriage agreement?

 

This is a serious question I am asking. I am not arguing that all MPs lie to the AP or what have you...I'm simply asking, looking at the circumstances objectively...a MP breaking formal vows and having a secret A...how, if one is rational, can they truly be shocked that this person breaks an informal A "vow"? What rationale is behind that feeling?

 

For me...as much as I cared for him, I am also pretty rational. I didn't think he was a raving liar and if he were, I do get that A or not, you feel badly...but then isn't there a part of you that feels like it should be expected? This person's reputation has preceded them, so to speak....so to be completely shocked is as a result of ignoring certain realities and buying into the principle of uniqueness, i.e. I know they are lying to their spouse but they wouldn't do it to ME though. My question is....WHY? Why wouldn't they? What makes you different? To take it further, does it matter if you're different...so long as THEY are the same? I suppose many times people assume this person's character is not objective and stands alone outside of their relationship and imagine that the relationship has an effect on this person's behavior, so if they are with them now, then they will be different....when many times, it does not. They are themselves no matter who they or married to or having an affair with....

 

All very good points.

 

Yes, so many times people make the mistake of thinking that a love interest will find them so wonderful that they will.see how great a future with them could be. The thing is, when dealing with some folks there is no level of wonderful good enough to turn them from a selfish cheating liar into someone with honesty and integrity.