Cheating in a marriage is what makes the marriage work...

[Untouchable_Fire]

This is true.

Which brings me to my next question. Even though I don't agree with cheating AT ALL, if people do it and still maintain a good and healthy marriage, is it so wrong then?

I mean, people complain that sex is so shallow a thing to base a real relationship on, then is it so wrong to get this shallow things elsewhere so you can focus on the real stuff?

I can't believe i'm asking this. I'm just exploring the idea. I mean, if it's so common then obviously it works?

 

It fails to work much more often than it does work. Plus you have to be a sociopath to feel good about it.

 

I can't believe you are actually going to consider bending your morals to accommodate your sisters nasty behavior. In fact, YOU are now complicit in the cheating. You should perhaps consider anonymously notifying her husband that there is some kind of problem. Otherwise you get to be as guilty as a concentration camp prison guard.

 

After reading about your sister and your thoughts on it... I feel like I need a shower.

[FrustratedStandards]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but isn't that the purpose of dating? Maybe it's a sign of the times, but situations like these point to the pitfalls of instant gratification, tossed in with liberal doses of selfishness and shortsightedness. That mindset can be easily handled when buying shoes, but is doomed to failure where marriage and starting a family is concerned.

 

They dated for a little over 3 years (or 3 years exactly i'm not sure) before he popped the question.

 

FS...you appear to have come here wanting to convince everyone else (and yourself) that what your sister is doing is "OK", is "RIGHT", is "NOT A BAD THING"...it doesn't appear to me that you're willing to open your eyes to the fact that what she's doing is wrong, harmful, and ultimately undermining her marriage and even her relationship with you.

 

You're here to defend your sister...you don't appear to be interested in hearing anything other than posts that appear to support her actions and choices.

 

You've got a choice at this point. You can either defend your sister and turn a blind eye to the fact that what she's doing is lying, cheating, and otherwise treating her husband terribly disrespectfully by doing what she's doing....or you can stop, listen to what folks here are telling you, and actually try to convince your sister to do the right thing instead.

 

The bottom line is this...what is it you want from posting this story on LS....and what are you going to do with the advice/viewpoints you get here as a result?

 

Either way, posting just to defend your sister isn't going to be successful...I don't see you convincing everyone else that what your sister is doing is in any way right, or beneficial to her marriage.

 

If I already knew it was wrong, I wouldn't need to post it for confirmation. I guess I was just really upset and this was my way of reaching out. I can't exactly talk to my friends about this, it's a really personal thing that is none of my business, and I am having difficult handling it. I know it's wrong to defend her, I know. I'm in denial. I cannot admit to myself that the person i've looked up to my entire life is a complete lie. I cannot confess this to myself. I feel like I will crumble. I truly do.

 

If she wasn't getting orgasms, why not get a BOB?

 

I've mentioned in a previous post that she had gotten several sex toys. I have a few myself, but I must admit, it's not the same as when a man is attached lol

 

I would be so mad at my sister for saddling me with this information because I don't think there's any way I could act normal around my brother in law, knowing that his marriage is a complete sham and he seems to have no idea. Ugh.

 

If he doesn't or can't satisfy her sexually, then why did she marry him?! Especially unfair in this situation is it doesn't sound like she's ever actually talked to him about her dissatisfaction. Instead, she chose to step outside of her marriage and potentially mess around with her husband's health and mental wellbeing.

 

You're right. I honesty wish she never told me. The moment she did, she shattered my entire image of her, and its so difficult to hold myself together because I have looked up to her my entire life (she is my older and only sibling). I cried all last night. I honestly don't know what to do.

 

Well they dated for roughly 3 years before they got married. She said he doesn't satisfy her sexually but I think what she meant by that was anymore. Maybe he lost interest, or maybe she lost interest in him and thats why she's looking for this "new and fresh" experience elsewhere.

 

I know 100% that it's not a medical problem. He is a sexually healthy man. Again, I didn't ask for details because I was still in shock when she told me, but to paraphrase it was along the lines of "I just get my fix from someone interesting and fun, and (her husband) doesn't give me that anymore."

 

I think maybe it has something to do with the "love fades" thing? I know sex is never like how it was when you first start dating someone, so I guess maybe this is the underlying issue?

 

I don't f*cking know. I just hope she figures her sh*t out.

 

Not to be too personal or anything, but did your sister have sex with her husband before they were married? If so, the she must have known about his ability or lack thereof to "satisfy" her. ( unless there was some kind of drastic change)....

 

Yes they had sex before they married. No drastic change that I am aware of. If I had to be blunt, my best guest would be she grew bored of him. And yes, you don't grow bored of someone you love. I'm starting to think she only married him because he was a suitable husband and someone she could settle down with. From what I know of the men she dated in the past, they were decent, nice guys and she deeply loved some of them, but those weren't exactly long term material (couldn't maintain a job, already had kids from a pervious marriage etc..)

 

In fact, YOU are now complicit in the cheating. You should perhaps consider anonymously notifying her husband that there is some kind of problem. Otherwise you get to be as guilty as a concentration camp prison guard.

 

No. I will NEVER be responsible for the demise of their marriage. If it has to end, then let it end because they f*cked up, not because of me. It shouldn't be my responsibility to confess someone else's doings.

[PegNosePete]

No. I will NEVER be responsible for the demise of their marriage.

No, because you are not the one who is cheating on your husband. Even if you were to shout it in the streets and hire a billboard advertisement about your sister's actions, you would not be responsible for the demise of their marriage. YOUR SISTER would. She is the one whose actions cause her husband to leave her (if that is even the outcome of telling him).

 

It shouldn't be my responsibility

Well, your sister has made it your responsibility by telling you. You are now complicit in her web of lies whether you like it or not. Whenever you speak to her husband, you will have to lie to him. If you're OK with that then all is good. I wouldn't be able to look him in the eyes ever again knowing that your sister is destroying his life behind his back.

[woinlove]

Frustrated, I'm sorry your sister has done this to you. Obviously what she is doing to her H is much worse, but he isn't posting here. She has put you in the position of expecting you to keep her deception secret and of trying to interact with your brother-in-law as if you didn't know he was being deceived. It's an awful position to be in and I can understand why you would want to try to rationalize it away as not being so bad. Since she wants to keep it from her H, if she had to tell someone else it should have been someone who really has no relationship with her H whatsoever, so as not to put them in the position of playing along with the deception.

 

You don't have a lot of options, if you don't want to be a part of her deception. You could withdraw and just try not to interact with your BIL at all, but that doesn't sound like very pleasant family dynamics, although I would chose it over acting in front of him as if everything is normal. Maybe if you tell her you can't do that and would rather tell her H than have to play along with her deception, that will spur her into telling him herself. However, since she has spent years lying she, I don't think it is likely that she will be suddenly be honest. Perhaps you can get your sister to seek some professional help which ultimately might allow her to live a more authentic life and be less selfish and cruel.

[imagine]

Hi FS,

 

I understand your position of not wanting to tell her husband. What would you say to him if he asks you whether you knew? Do you need to lie?

 

I guess you know and understand the complication of discovery. Folk here describe it as worse than death. The point is- does your sister!

 

I recommend that you guide her to read the anguish in the infidelity section.

 

Sorry that you have been weighed down with this knowledge....

[xxoo]

I think maybe it has something to do with the "love fades" thing? I know sex is never like how it was when you first start dating someone, so I guess maybe this is the underlying issue?

 

Love fades, but usually because it wasn't tended. If you don't tend your garden, it will become overgrown with weeds; flowers wilt and die.

 

Of course, if she was never in love with him, then there's your answer.

 

What makes marriage work: Marry only if truly in love. Tend to each other, and keep love strong. Foster a deeply intimate relationship, in mind and body. The sex will stay satisfying.

 

To conclude that cheating is what makes marriage work is ridiculous.

[analystfromhell]

And I missed it but sex has to be connect with emotions and a sense of self. Physically, despite what the porn movies would have us believe, if we love someone then aren't they attractive? Not finding them attractive or able to "satisfy them physically" is to me an indictment of the relationship not of the supposedly inadequate lover.

 

I guess the scenario might be read as he has a small ****s or something as there's no indication he's anything but unselfish. Either way I find the whole situation both disgusting and think it says nothing about him but everything about her who evidently is satisfied not with one other person but a stream of them. Likely then that marriage to any one of those fish in the sea would find her using the same excuse.

 

I'll say that if you love someone and they love you then each of you will satisfy the other- if not there's something up with communications or affections or personality.

 

Please call me out on this if I'm off base.

[FrustratedStandards]

What makes marriage work: Marry only if truly in love. Tend to each other, and keep love strong. Foster a deeply intimate relationship, in mind and body. The sex will stay satisfying.

 

I agree with you. To be completely honest, I don't believe in "true love" or falling in love. I have never fallen in love myself, and I don't think my sister has either.

 

Deep in my heart and soul I truly believe that 90% of people settle. I will settle too (every boyfriend I have ever had took many months to convince me to date them because initially I never liked them, and the break ups weren't heartbreaking or sad for me, but I still never cheated). There is no such thing as "the one" or "soul mate". However, I still think that if you chose to settle down, it should be with someone who you can tolerate in every aspect (including bad sex) because at the end of the day, betrayal is betrayal and nothing justifies cheating.

 

I honestly believe that it's either that, or you end up alone. I think my sister just didn't want to end up alone so she chose this route. Which I think is fine, I just think she should have handled it differently (not cheat).

 

If sex is so important to her, then she shouldn't have settled down with a man who is better in bed even though he might lack in other qualities. At least that way she would remain faithful. (Which brings me to another point: Do we pick people to be with just because we know we can be faithful to them? There are couples who are inlove and care for each other deeply, but who have been unfaithful. There are others who don't give a crap about each other but remain faithful just because "that's what you're supposed to do".)

 

After this entire situation, I must admit that I have this fear within myself that I am capable of the same thing. I am scared to date now because in the back of my mind I keep thinking "What if I cheat too? What if I end up like my sister and date a great guy, but he isn't great in every aspect?" and with that comes the thought "I either have to settle or I will end up alone because i'm too picky".

 

I'm in a really bad place right now.

Edited February 10, 2012 by FrustratedStandards

[woinlove]

I don't think the reason your sister cheats is because sex is important to her if she is only cheating a few times a year. When sex is important to you, you're likely to have it a couple hundred times a year or more, year after year. That's the case with my H and me, even after more than 25 years.

 

Sounds like you sister is talking about sex with someone other than her H, what maybe a dozen times a year, a few dozen times? Doesn't sound like it is for sex. May be for strange sex. Sounds more like she likes to have sex with different men once in a while and then maybe live off the memory of the risk, thrill or whatever it is she is seeking.

 

Or do you think your sister is actually having sex 100x or more a year with men other than her H? If that is the case, then it could be for sex.

 

People who cheat often make up excuses for their behavior and perhaps your sister thinks cheating for sex makes her better than cheating for the risk and thrill of it. Whatever -- she seems to get off on cheating. Some people do.

 

You are not you sister. Just because your sister likes to treat her family this way does not in any way imply you will. You control your own destiny and can choose honesty.

Edited February 10, 2012 by woinlove

[nofool4u]

(Her husband doesn't know she cheats.)

 

Thoughts?

 

I know saying to tell her husband will be out of the question for you as her sister.

 

Aside from that, thoughts? You really don't want me to answer that.

[nofool4u]

I would never be responsible for the demise of their relationship.

 

No, your sister would be responsible for the demise of their relationship.

 

 

It's none of my business and I never repeat what I am told.

 

Ok, if you feel its none of your business, then the next time your sister brings it up, tell her to shut her trap and that you don't want to hear about it.

 

If you aren't going to give the poor guy the information he deserves to have, then you shouldn't be a shoulder for her to unload her bulls**t on.

[nofool4u]

This is true.

 

Which brings me to my next question. Even though I don't agree with cheating AT ALL, if people do it and still maintain a good and healthy marriage, is it so wrong then?

 

Yes, unless both spouses know and don't care.

[nofool4u]

Again, I am going to defend my sister in saying this (even though I don't 100% agree with it). She is cheating to avoid problems in her marriage.

 

Wrong. She is cheating because she is a cheater. She is cheating to get her own personal satisfaction. Has absolutely nothing to do with avoiding problems in her marriage.

 

 

So I guess what i'm asking is, is it so bad what she is doing if it saved her marriage?

 

Since he doesn't know, yes. Its bad.

 

And quit making excuses for her lousy character.

[nofool4u]

If you don't have anything relevant to say, then don't say anything at all. Thanks.

 

I'm no happier about this situation than the rest of you.

 

And what would be your take if she was faithful, and her husband confessed to cheating on your sister? You'd have a much different attitude.

[robf1971]

date a great guy, but he isn't great in every aspect?" .

 

Here lays the problem. People are looking for perfection in someone but it just doesn't exist.

[nofool4u]

Here lays the problem. People are looking for perfection in someone but it just doesn't exist.

 

And this is why I'll never marry again. I'd be too afraid to wind up with someone like her sister.

[PratyekaYana]

To the OP:

 

Has your sister ever considered proposing an open relationship with her husband? In such a scenario, she could remain sexually satisfied, faithful to her spouse, and evasive of the whole cheating ordeal (since sex within an open marriage is by definition not infidelity).

[robf1971]

To the OP:

 

Has your sister ever considered proposing an open relationship with her husband? In such a scenario, she could remain sexually satisfied, faithful to her spouse, and evasive of the whole cheating ordeal (since sex within an open marriage is by definition not infidelity).

 

Yeah but she probably wouldn't be able to handle her husband having sex with others. Cheaters are terrible at handling being cheated on.

[The Blue Knight]

This is true.

 

Which brings me to my next question. Even though I don't agree with cheating AT ALL, if people do it and still maintain a good and healthy marriage, is it so wrong then?

 

I mean, people complain that sex is so shallow a thing to base a real relationship on, then is it so wrong to get this shallow things elsewhere so you can focus on the real stuff?

 

I can't believe i'm asking this. I'm just exploring the idea. I mean, if it's so common then obviously it works?

 

Sex is only viewed as "shallow" by those who for whatever reason don't find much satisfaction in sex. But sex is indeed an important part of a monogamous relationship. If it wasn't, your sister wouldn't be cheating to get her sexual needs met.

 

Regarding your question, is it wrong? Well, considering her husband doesn't know about his wife getting f**ked by other men so that she can be pleased, I'd have to say, yes . . . it's wrong.

 

If he was agreeable to this or they sat down and came to terms with an open marriage that would be one thing. Still fairly bizarre in my book, but at least both are in the loop and giving consent. That's not the case here.

[xxoo]

I will settle too.

 

Easily solved: don't settle.

 

Try to figure out why you are so difficult to please. Do you think maybe it is a form of self-protection? If you keep you standards unreasonably high, you never risk falling in love. And if you never risk falling in love, you never risk getting hurt. Maybe?

 

Believe me, love exists, and it is powerful. When you fall in love, none of the standards matter. You feel so good in that person's presence, it doesn't matter if they are fat, thin, short, tall, rich, or poor. Love is a drug.

[woinlove]

Sex is only viewed as "shallow" by those who for whatever reason don't find much satisfaction in sex. But sex is indeed an important part of a monogamous relationship. If it wasn't, your sister wouldn't be cheating to get her sexual needs met.

 

But, really, how important could sex possibly be to her sister when her sister says she only has to cheat a few times a year to satisfy her needs? Many, many people desire sex weekly or daily. If you only need it a few times a year, it can't be that important. I think it is the risk, thrill, and memories of those, or something similar. Because no orgasm lasts for four long months! But memories of the thrill of cheating (for those who find this kind of behavior thrilling) could last for months.

[FrustratedStandards]

Sounds like you sister is talking about sex with someone other than her H, what maybe a dozen times a year, a few dozen times? Doesn't sound like it is for sex. May be for strange sex. Sounds more like she likes to have sex with different men once in a while and then maybe live off the memory of the risk, thrill or whatever it is she is seeking.

 

You are not you sister. Just because your sister likes to treat her family this way does not in any way imply you will. You control your own destiny and can choose honesty.

 

Now that I think about it you're probably right. She just wants to be single again I guess, without leaving her stable life behind. It's a paradox. That's why I don't want to get married, I like being single and having open options. Maybe my sister is like that too, only she got married, and now she regrets it and tries to make up for the lack of fun by cheating?

 

And thank you. I really do appreciate the support in those last few lines. It helps to hear that.

 

And what would be your take if she was faithful, and her husband confessed to cheating on your sister? You'd have a much different attitude.

 

Of course I would! I grew up with my sister and I love with with all my heart. I'm not close at all with my brother-in-law. He's like that distant uncle that you know you're related too but never share much with. See him once a year for holidays. That kinda thing.

 

Here lays the problem. People are looking for perfection in someone but it just doesn't exist.

 

Not perfection necessarily, but picky is picky. If I don't settle I know I will end up alone. I just know it. My username is "Frustrated Standards" for a reason. If I was picky with my men (the way I truly am) and didn't date them if I didn't really like them that much, then I would be a 28 year old virgin who has never been kissed.

 

To the OP:

 

Has your sister ever considered proposing an open relationship with her husband? In such a scenario, she could remain sexually satisfied, faithful to her spouse, and evasive of the whole cheating ordeal (since sex within an open marriage is by definition not infidelity).

 

I don't think so. Actually, given her attitude about the whole thing, i'm pretty sure she hasn't. I don't think her husband would like the idea either. And if she harmlessly suggested it (even if she wasn't cheating on him) that would imply that she was interested in extramarital sex, and that alone would create problems in the marriage.

 

Sex is only viewed as "shallow" by those who for whatever reason don't find much satisfaction in sex. But sex is indeed an important part of a monogamous relationship. If it wasn't, your sister wouldn't be cheating to get her sexual needs met.

 

This is true. Some posters suggested she cheats not for the sex but rather for the thrill, which makes more sense, because like you say, if sex was that important, she would be cheating much more often.

 

Easily solved: don't settle.

 

Try to figure out why you are so difficult to please. Do you think maybe it is a form of self-protection? If you keep you standards unreasonably high, you never risk falling in love. And if you never risk falling in love, you never risk getting hurt. Maybe?

 

Believe me, love exists, and it is powerful. When you fall in love, none of the standards matter. You feel so good in that person's presence, it doesn't matter if they are fat, thin, short, tall, rich, or poor. Love is a drug.

 

I'm not difficult to please. Not at all. I'm just really picky. On top of that i'm 5'10 so that eliminates half the world of men simply because they are shorter. My particular problem is attractive vs. LTR qualities. It's always either or. I have trouble finding a man with both.

 

I should use my sisters example. She settled for the long-term qualities, but now cheats on her husband.

 

I guess i'm doomed for loneliness then. Better then cheating on someone I guess.

 

But, really, how important could sex possibly be to her sister when her sister says she only has to cheat a few times a year to satisfy her needs? Many, many people desire sex weekly or daily. If you only need it a few times a year, it can't be that important. I think it is the risk, thrill, and memories of those, or something similar. Because no orgasm lasts for four long months! But memories of the thrill of cheating (for those who find this kind of behavior thrilling) could last for months.

 

You are probably right. She likely just used the "sexual frustrations" excuse to justify why she wants other men and not her husband. I just don't understand why she got married then, if she still enjoys the single life. Her mind-set is probably like mine. "I'll never find what I want anyway, might as well settle down with a great guy." This obviously made her make some bad decisions....

 

At least I can learn from her, cuz I plan on settling too. I should take this as a lesson. Ugh, I really don't want to be an old cat lady.

Edited February 10, 2012 by FrustratedStandards

[nofool4u]

Of course I would! I grew up with my sister and I love with with all my heart.

 

And because of that you are willing to look the other way, whereas if the roles were reversed you'd throw her H under the bus the first chance you got.

 

I understand the caring sibling thing. But I wouldn't defend my own sister's actions. And if she wasn't willing to tell her spouse, and I never told him either, then I'd be telling her not to ever burden me with her sorry excuses or talk of cheating again.

 

 

I don't think so. Actually, given her attitude about the whole thing, i'm pretty sure she hasn't. I don't think her husband would like the idea either. And if she harmlessly suggested it (even if she wasn't cheating on him) that would imply that she was interested in extramarital sex, and that alone would create problems in the marriage.

 

Unless her husband would be into swinging, there is no "harmlessly suggesting" it to him.

[woinlove]

 

At least I can learn from her, cuz I plan on settling too. I should take this as a lesson. Ugh, I really don't want to be an old cat lady.

 

Yes!! It's good you are asking questions, seeking advice, trying to understand your sister's behavior better, because as you say, you can learn from all this. But you don't have to settle. You just have to be open to love, be sure of your values and what makes you feel good about yourself, and be honest and kind. I knew I did not want a conventional marriage and as soon as we started getting serious, I talked about this with my future H and we agreed before we even married, that it would be an open marriage. We don't use the "open" part that often for sex, but we are always honest and open with each other and we try to be kind and respectful. It has worked for us for 25 years. Not suggesting this for you, as most people don't want this, but just as an example, that it really is up to you to define the kind of life you want.

[Chi townD]

 

Deep in my heart and soul I truly believe that 90% of people settle. I will settle too (every boyfriend I have ever had took many months to convince me to date them because initially I never liked them, and the break ups weren't heartbreaking or sad for me, but I still never cheated). There is no such thing as "the one" or "soul mate". However, I still think that if you chose to settle down, it should be with someone who you can tolerate in every aspect (including bad sex) because at the end of the day, betrayal is betrayal and nothing justifies cheating.

 

 

Wow, this paragraph really brought me down. I do believe that there is true love. And I do believe that there is a guy out there that will steal your heart. The kind of guy that can respect you for who you are. A guy that makes your heart race when you see him and your heart ache when he's away. A guy that will be your best friend and someone you can talk to about anything. A guy that will touch you in such a way that you can imagine a life without him. I believe he's out there and he looking for you right now.

 

So, don't lose hope.