Cheating in a marriage is what makes the marriage work...

[FrustratedStandards]

Chi_townD that is very optimistic of you, and I really do appreciate what you said It's so kind of you, and that's exactly what I need to hear right now So thank you.

 

I still don't think it will happen, but if there are men out there who think like you do, then the world has hope

[The Blue Knight]

But, really, how important could sex possibly be to her sister when her sister says she only has to cheat a few times a year to satisfy her needs? Many, many people desire sex weekly or daily. If you only need it a few times a year, it can't be that important. I think it is the risk, thrill, and memories of those, or something similar. Because no orgasm lasts for four long months! But memories of the thrill of cheating (for those who find this kind of behavior thrilling) could last for months.

Assuming the sister is telling the truth. I seriously doubt that it's a "few times a year" to be honest. Sounds like it's much more regular to me for the very reason that you pointed out. But I also find the whole matter strange that she supposedly loves her husband but he can't satisfy her. Huh??? And they've been together did she say 16 years? Something from this story is missing. I don't think the drunk sister was being completely genuine with the accuracy of her domestic situation.

[woinlove]

Assuming the sister is telling the truth. I seriously doubt that it's a "few times a year" to be honest. Sounds like it's much more regular to me for the very reason that you pointed out. But I also find the whole matter strange that she supposedly loves her husband but he can't satisfy her. Huh??? And they've been together did she say 16 years? Something from this story is missing. I don't think the drunk sister was being completely genuine with the accuracy of her domestic situation.

 

Yes, well if there is one thing one learns here, it is that a person who is immersed in cheating rarely tells the truth about their situation. I'm not sure I can recall any case where it seemed like they were being honest, although I recall one that came across as a heartless sociopath and scared me that they might actually be telling the truth. Part of the problem is that people cheating seem to lie to themselves a lot so even when they think they are telling the truth they aren't.

[Cabin]

I haven't read every response here, so forgive me if I'm duplicating...

 

When I read this, it made me think about what an illusion many/most marriages probably are.

 

Stats say that 80% of marriages will experience infidelity at some point. 50% of marriages end in divorce. The remaining half who don't divorce aren't necessarily any happier even though they stick it out for the kids, for financial reasons, for fear of being alone, for fear of failing, etc.

 

Marriages that appear to function, such as your sister's, are wrought with betrayal.

 

I just think it is time for a total paradigm shift in our concept of marriage. The model doesn't work, for many/most, anymore.

 

I know there are some rocking marriages out there. I know there are people who truly have "it" and it means the world to them. And I think that is simply terrific.

 

But for the rest of society, (I'm going to generalize now), who spent too much on carbon-copy weddings with no real clue about WHY or HOW marriage, this is one institution in need of serious revamping.

[2sunny]

Well - for starters - it would be nice to understand M as an agreement!

 

And if and when one person decides to alter the agreement - they should ask for permission first! That would be proper order - AND honest... But most don't do it that way...

[robf1971]

I

I just think it is time for a total paradigm shift in our concept of marriage. The model doesn't work, for many/most, anymore.

 

Yep it's called honesty and integrity!

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Yep sex is important in a marriage. The sooner people understand it the better.

 

Does that absolve sister/wife????? Of course not...... But my issues are much different then just the black and white that always comes from discussing cheating.

 

Your sister is rationalizing her situation and I am sure she believes it 100%. Yes she is happier at home, the family better and in this case she is having more sex with her husband, which she considers unsatisfying.

 

What it does prove to me is what I say over and over.... That affairs are primarily only about sex..... Here though it is a female who has affairs so she can return to a ho hum unsatisfying sex life and it is bearable. Usually it is the male who isn't getting sex at home looking elsewhere.

 

Where she doesn't get my support is the always blanket statement that only women can say.... Sex is not good at home. Men can say the same, but that is because of completely different dynamics. I.e. not enough kink, no excitement, lack of bj's, one position...... But they (males) are getting off (orgasming). A woman saying her husband sucks (as it is intimated here) is either with a non-communicative, sexually repressed male (again 1 position, no oral, no kink), but that to me me means she is not getting off and not vocalizing the issues. What man is happy knowing he can't make his partner cum?????

 

If this is the case and she has said nothing or just gone through the motions, then his lies 100% on her. Us men are stoopid and need some instruction. If she has tried and he just stinks, that's one thing. If he has put on 100 lbs and done nothing about it, then again it lies on him. But if she has not done everything in her powers to make it better with his active listening and help, then it is her fault.

 

I am however wondering if she does this for no more then the vicarious thrill of the strange and asserting her sexual prowess, then she should come clean and ask for an open marriage or see a therapist to address why she is doing this. Then she is no more then a serial cheater/narcissist.

 

Would like to know more, and know those would be the questions I ask, before I judge.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Toodamnpragmatic

[Cabin]

Yep sex is important in a marriage. The sooner people understand it the better.

 

Where she doesn't get my support is the always blanket statement that only women can say.... Sex is not good at home.

 

But if she has not done everything in her powers to make it better with his active listening and help, then it is her fault.

 

 

I agree with your first statement: sex is important in a marriage. I didn't know how much.

 

But your second statement I have to disagree a little. Male sexuality is pretty straightforward compared to female sexuality.

 

Even if she is communicating with him her preferences, her desires, her step by step instructions to the big O, it doesn't mean sex is going to be something she wants with him.

 

My STBXH wanted to do everything "right" and he cared about taking the time to make sure I was satisfied, you know, but it didn't make for a good sex life at all.

 

The physical chemistry was WAY off. I didn't like the way he smelled, I didn't like his touch. There was NO emotional connection, so the physical stuff just felt plain wrong. The only good part was the inevitable O, but even that was just better taking care of it by myself.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I agree with your first statement: sex is important in a marriage. I didn't know how much.

 

But your second statement I have to disagree a little. Male sexuality is pretty straightforward compared to female sexuality.

 

Even if she is communicating with him her preferences, her desires, her step by step instructions to the big O, it doesn't mean sex is going to be something she wants with him.

 

My STBXH wanted to do everything "right" and he cared about taking the time to make sure I was satisfied, you know, but it didn't make for a good sex life at all.

 

The physical chemistry was WAY off. I didn't like the way he smelled, I didn't like his touch. There was NO emotional connection, so the physical stuff just felt plain wrong. The only good part was the inevitable O, but even that was just better taking care of it by myself.

 

And there is the crux of the matter...... Yes male sexuality is pretty straightforward and there we agree. You sound like you gave the classic ILYBNILWY. You decided to turn off, or never understood all the issues with you ex..... To say you disiked his/smell, chemistry I hope was from the beginning and you were just naive/inexperienced. If he did nothing and you just built up and decided these were issues (reality or made up) were there then I feel terrible for him and again would tell you to seek counseling to understand what made you feel that way.

[FrustratedStandards]

Marriages that appear to function, such as your sister's, are wrought with betrayal.

 

So basically what that means is that marriage doesn't work at all unless one or both of the partners have betrayed in some way. So I wasn't wrong it saying her cheating "saved" the marriage

[Woggle]

If this is what it takes to keep a marriage together then why get married at all? I don't believe all marriages are like this but I would rather just have casual sex with tons of partners than be in this kind of marriage.

[FrustratedStandards]

What it does prove to me is what I say over and over.... That affairs are primarily only about sex..... Here though it is a female who has affairs so she can return to a ho hum unsatisfying sex life and it is bearable. Usually it is the male who isn't getting sex at home looking elsewhere.

 

What man is happy knowing he can't make his partner cum?????

 

I am however wondering if she does this for no more then the vicarious thrill of the strange and asserting her sexual prowess...

 

Men feel awful if they can't please their woman, I think that's probably why she hasn't told him.

 

And I think it's for both, the sex and the thrill. Both go hand in hand also dont you think?

 

(I've never experienced an orgasm with a man) and when I dated this one guy (he was psycho but anyway) he looked through my phone and read all my personal messages between my close friends and I. One of them was with my girlfriend, and I confessed to her that I honestly thought I would be one of those girls who could never have an orgasm. I told her "I think I fall under the 30% or 10% of women, or whatever the percentage is. I just can't orgasm!"

 

He was furious, told me that if I couldn't come, then I should stop faking! This is true, and I stopped faking with him, but then he had sex with me less and less because his ego was hurt. We just kept going and going and we didn't reach a climax, and the guy I was dating felt awful about himself. He then came out with "well maybe its a problem of yours that you cant come" (I guess implying what I said in the text).

 

Our sex life died right there basically, and we broke up. So I agree, no man wants to hear that. It was nice to not have to fake anymore however, and I told him what I liked and what I didn't in bed, so in a way we became VERY honest about that, but it didn't help.

 

Even if she is communicating with him her preferences, her desires, her step by step instructions to the big O, it doesn't mean sex is going to be something she wants with him.

 

My STBXH wanted to do everything "right" and he cared about taking the time to make sure I was satisfied, you know, but it didn't make for a good sex life at all.

 

But shouldn't sex be something you WANT with someone you're married to? Isn't that the point of marriage?

 

And I agree with your second statement. They can do everything right in bed and follow ur instructions or what not (like in the example I used above) and it still won't make the sex better.

[robf1971]

So basically what that means is that marriage doesn't work at all unless one or both of the partners have betrayed in some way. So I wasn't wrong it saying her cheating "saved" the marriage

 

It does rather put one off marriage doesn't it..

[FrustratedStandards]

I was never good with the idea to begin with. I see marriages all around me and that is not a life I want.

 

Then again, long-term relationships are sort of like marriage. You have to map out your entire week to them and let them know if plans change. I hate that. I hate answering to someone.

 

But it seems that in this society, in order to get a decent date or a romantic evening you NEED to have a boyfriend, because there is no such thing as romance with no strings attached anymore.

 

Chivalry is dead. The guy has to love you to do such things. Ugh.

 

Correction: The guy has to love you or expect something more. I enjoy a man's company. I enjoy a romantic evening without having to call the guy the next day. I enjoy no strings attached romance. Does such at thing exist anymore?

Edited February 11, 2012 by FrustratedStandards

[robf1971]

.

 

no such thing as romance with no strings attached anymore.

 

Why would anyone want to be romantic with someone they didn't love!!

[Woggle]

I think that with men who are willing to bend over backwards to please their woman it actually makes them less interested.

 

A friend of mine lived in a sexless marriage that went on for about two years and he tried everything to try and please her. He said he twisted time and space for her but it never worked. Finally he got sick of it and told her that if she didn't want some woman will and he was going to go out get laid without her. He was dead serious as well.

 

Her libido magically returned and they have had a great marriage ever since. I just think sometimes a man needs to stop the bending over backwards and actually present a challenge. Show he has other options.

[Cabin]

To say you disiked his/smell, chemistry I hope was from the beginning and you were just naive/inexperienced..

 

Yes, it was from the beginning. I was early early 20s and naive and honestly thought "that's just how it is for everyone". I didn't really realize that different people bring different dynamics to a sexual connection and that the range of sexual fulfilment (I am not talking pure physicality here) was so darn broad.

 

Had I known all of that I would not have married H.

 

He deserves to have a W who wants to be with him sexually.

[robf1971]

I think that with men who are willing to bend over backwards to please their woman it actually makes them less interested.

 

Yep, it seems that the guys that often get cheated on betrayed etc are the Mr nice guy's. Pleasers who are yes men.

[Woggle]

Yep, it seems that the guys that often get cheated on betrayed etc are the Mr nice guy's. Pleasers who are yes men.

 

Yup. I treat my wife great but that is because she does the same for me. If she flips the script I will do so as well.

[robf1971]

Yup. I treat my wife great but that is because she does the same for me. If she flips the script I will do so as well.

 

I used to be a pleaser, it almost killed my marriage. She told me in MC that it made her lose respect for me. I remember the first time I properly stood up to her after that. She had a go at me about something I did when I took the kids to school. To which I replied, 'If you don't like the way I do things, go do it yourself for once' and walked away. About 10 minutes later she walks in with a tearful apology and a huge kiss and hug.

[Woggle]

I used to be a pleaser, it almost killed my marriage. She told me in MC that it made her lose respect for me. I remember the first time I properly stood up to her after that. She had a go at me about something I did when I took the kids to school. To which I replied, 'If you don't like the way I do things, go do it yourself for once' and walked away. About 10 minutes later she walks in with a tearful apology and a huge kiss and hug.

 

That is how it usually works. I apologize if I genuinely feel I was wrong but never to keep the peace.

[FrustratedStandards]

Why would anyone want to be romantic with someone they didn't love!!

 

For the sake of being romantic At least, that's how I feel. I enjoy being romantic with someone without having to love them.

 

Yes, it was from the beginning. I was early early 20s and naive and honestly thought "that's just how it is for everyone". I didn't really realize that different people bring different dynamics to a sexual connection and that the range of sexual fulfilment (I am not talking pure physicality here) was so darn broad.

 

Had I known all of that I would not have married H.

 

He deserves to have a W who wants to be with him sexually.

 

Are you still married to him? Or did you divorce? Just curious.

 

Yup. I treat my wife great but that is because she does the same for me. If she flips the script I will do so as well.

 

My sister treats her husband great too, but she still cheats on him. To me that doesn't say much anymore.

[Woggle]

For the sake of being romantic At least, that's how I feel. I enjoy being romantic with someone without having to love them.

 

 

 

Are you still married to him? Or did you divorce? Just curious.

 

 

 

My sister treats her husband great too, but she still cheats on him. To me that doesn't say much anymore.

 

If she cheats on him she does not treat him well. Also I bet things are different in their home then what you see. Cheating women tend to have this undercurrent of contempt for a man being cheated on.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Men feel awful if they can't please their woman, I think that's probably why she hasn't told him.

 

And I think it's for both, the sex and the thrill. Both go hand in hand also dont you think?

 

(I've never experienced an orgasm with a man) and when I dated this one guy (he was psycho but anyway) he looked through my phone and read all my personal messages between my close friends and I. One of them was with my girlfriend, and I confessed to her that I honestly thought I would be one of those girls who could never have an orgasm. I told her "I think I fall under the 30% or 10% of women, or whatever the percentage is. I just can't orgasm!"

 

He was furious, told me that if I couldn't come, then I should stop faking! This is true, and I stopped faking with him, but then he had sex with me less and less because his ego was hurt. We just kept going and going and we didn't reach a climax, and the guy I was dating felt awful about himself. He then came out with "well maybe its a problem of yours that you cant come" (I guess implying what I said in the text).

 

Our sex life died right there basically, and we broke up. So I agree, no man wants to hear that. It was nice to not have to fake anymore however, and I told him what I liked and what I didn't in bed, so in a way we became VERY honest about that, but it didn't help.

 

 

 

But shouldn't sex be something you WANT with someone you're married to? Isn't that the point of marriage?

 

And I agree with your second statement. They can do everything right in bed and follow ur instructions or what not (like in the example I used above) and it still won't make the sex better.

 

To play pop psychologist, the more you post about your issues, settling, the inability to orgasm (for the most part), sounds like you and your sister may have issues from your past to explore.

 

So add to that you and your sister were/are experts in faking? This really sounds like deep seated issues.

 

BTW some men have no idea that they are not good in bed or know what to do..... Heck most of us are wandering around in the dark as to what to do to turn on women (lol)......

Edited February 11, 2012 by Toodamnpragmatic

[kaylan]

When you fake in bed, you cheat yourself.

 

How can you ever find out what works for you in bed if you are constantly making men feel like you are getting off?

 

First you need to figure out how to orgasm alone during masturbation.

 

Then you need to quit the faking, find an understanding partner and get things done.

 

My ex could only orgasm from oral in the beginning. Hell she didnt even orgasm from that until we had some practice together. But she never faked. Whats the point in that?

Edited February 12, 2012 by kaylan