The Affair makes them stay (married) !

[beenburned]

freestyle,

Absolutely!!

[Barrsitter]

All the posters on this thread and this topic in general who got fried by their MM/MW should form an online dating club. There are, from my observation, some pretty great people on LS. Just sayin....

Edited February 12, 2012 by Barrsitter

[Patrice]

So true .. and if you decide you've had enough, they'll travel on to another another. Talk about selfish people. You learn that the MM/MW who engage in such conduct, are a strange breed ... they don't care who they trample on in the process of not doing something about their miserable existence in the present. Instead you're used as a bandaid .. and yes, they don't leave the marriage. To the OW and OM out there, break the cycle - I'm sure others will be swayed. Heal yourself and don't buy it anymore.

[FelicityShot]

During some exchanges with a friend here on LS, I was reminded one of the biggest lessons that I learned from the A.

 

For a long time I refused to acknowledge it as it seems contradicting the very fact of how an affair can be destructive to the marriage. Then what she said struck me like a dazzling light.

 

Being in an affair or prolonging it with a MM or MW helps them to stay married !

 

The very fact that they find an emotional outlet to escape boredom makes their marriage more tolerable. Most of the situations when the MM/MW is involved in an A is when the M is going downhill. A lot of OW/OM think that the the A will be the catalyst to make them divorce. In reality it produces the opposite effects.

I have observed that married people going through relationship crisis have 2 options : either they cheat or they divorce. Obviously they can also go to counseling but most of them take that option after the A is discovered and sh** has hit the fan.

 

I remember when I met xMW, she was contemplating divorce and her confessions were not biased as we were only friends at the beginning. She was depressed and bored in her relationship telling me how much they have become like room-mates. That was before the A happened. During the A the divorce topic became almost taboo. She even said she was never going to divorce him but at the same time she went through fog, guilt, depression and tremendous longing for me.

 

Being involved in the affair, I contributed to feed her with the passion she was lacking in her marriage making it the safety net she could return to. At the same time it helped her with the conflict avoidance without having to face her own 'demons'. She had the best of both worlds even if she had to pay it with a lot of heartache.

 

 

I wonder about the best of all worlds if it means heartache.

 

My A did not help me stay M. It made me realise straight away the things I thought were wrong in the M did indeed go deep.

 

However, even though I am split from my xH now, I still feel a big connection there. I am the sort of person that maintains connections.

 

So in this way, I can undestand a split where the two people are M, it's not right to continue, but it's hard to let go. Not because of messed up things, but just because that's the way M is.

 

I can understand a WS going back to a M, even if all their passion and intimacy lie elsewhere.

 

Even a bad M is a M, and it would take either a flighty person or a heart of stone to dissolve it.

 

So to dissolve a M, you have to fully have in you that stone or butterfly.

[woinlove]

I wonder about the best of all worlds if it means heartache.

 

My A did not help me stay M. It made me realise straight away the things I thought were wrong in the M did indeed go deep.

 

However, even though I am split from my xH now, I still feel a big connection there. I am the sort of person that maintains connections.

 

So in this way, I can undestand a split where the two people are M, it's not right to continue, but it's hard to let go. Not because of messed up things, but just because that's the way M is.

 

I can understand a WS going back to a M, even if all their passion and intimacy lie elsewhere.

 

Even a bad M is a M, and it would take either a flighty person or a heart of stone to dissolve it.

 

So to dissolve a M, you have to fully have in you that stone or butterfly.

 

Not sure about divorce needing a heart of stone. Or at least it wouldn't seem to need anywhere near the heart of stone that a secret affair does. One can still treat one's spouse with compassion and respect during a divorce, whereas an affair shows neither.

[Patrice]

keblammo .. cheaters will cheat on you .. get with the picture.

[FelicityShot]

Not sure about divorce needing a heart of stone. Or at least it wouldn't seem to need anywhere near the heart of stone that a secret affair does. One can still treat one's spouse with compassion and respect during a divorce, whereas an affair shows neither.

 

Divorce requires more oomph than an A.

Edited February 13, 2012 by FelicityShot

[Patrice]

Of course it does, cake eaters are liars. Period.

[Spark1111]

Ding, ding , ding-we have a winner!

 

Right on the money, beenburned.

I'd also like to add that it's also very common with those individuals afflicted with the Cluster B disorders---NPD, ASPD,BPD (Borderline, NOT Bi-polar)

 

There are times when the CS is broken so badly, that they can't handle genuine intimacy (being authentic) with their spouse, so they are on an endless hunt for positive mirroring.....Their need for constant admiration outweighs their concern for the needs and well-being of their partner.

 

As soon as their partner finds fault with them in any way, they become a threat to the false self which has been created by someone with one of the Cluster B disorders.So the CS looks elsewhere..........

 

Uh, agree with this. Great post beenburned, and Freestyle.

 

Just wanted to add, though, that a website designed to help true bi-polars who have not received meds and counseling stated that the average number of partners they have outside of marriage is 14! Usually during the manic cycle of the disorder which can last from five minutes to years. Obviously, they divorce often and remain untreated.

 

Could this be what so many refer to as mid-life crises?

 

Did you know that untreated ADHD in childhood often leads to bi-polar disorder in adulthood?

[Spark1111]

Divorce requires more oomph than an A.

 

Define oomph please. More honesty, integrity, unwilling to avoid conflict, a desire to work together to right the wrongs?

 

An affair is easier because you do not have to do these things?

 

What do you mean by oomph?

[carhill]

Seeking emotional/sexual validation from another human, or accepting it, is a relatively neutral act compared to the negative, fear inducing act of divorcing and breaking up a family. Overcoming the fear and taking actions which bring no pleasure is the 'oomph', IMO.

[Confused4Now]

Talking about my own experience with MW, it is also interesting how she reacted when the "emotional supply" was cut through NC (even if it has never been strict between us).

 

She looked for escape on other things that would make her avoid facing her relationship problems. After the A ended she went to counselling than stopped because she thought it was useless, as she always felt empty and lonely. Then she started abusing with drinking, started smoking (she had never smoked in her life) and traveling restlessly to see her past and present girl-friends. Everything was good to be away from her H. She became obsessed about reading books or religion (there is nothing wrong with that but she had an obsessed behavior). She told me she is doing the right thing staying married but after my conversations with her I realized how her M is no different than before, how she sees herself being a wife as a duty going on with her own issues and her relationship issues. She might be physically with her H but her mind is miles away.

 

Bottomline is I think she doesn't love her H enough to be happy with him but she isn't miserable enough to leave. And unconsciously I helped her to stay. Now she is facing her issues and resuming contact with me once in a while it is her way to receive a 'shot of emotional supply'.

 

Like Morningcoffee said, I was some kind of "misery stabilizer". I filled the void and made her look at her M as "not so bad after all".

This is spot on about my xMW as well...However she was looking for time fillers when I started pulling away in the end. Great post EAST....I keep saying you and I must have been with the same woman. It's amazing your observations are exactly like mine.

 

I'm almost one year of NC and I have not heard a peep...I think she found a new supply from somewhere.

[Emme]

Fear is truly paralyzing. Some people fear the unknown and choose to deal with the issue with minimal collateral damage. Not many want to walk unknown. We do offer whatever is missing East. In the end, no matter what, something is lacking whether it's from their partner and/or themselves.

[FelicityShot]

Seeking emotional/sexual validation from another human, or accepting it, is a relatively neutral act compared to the negative, fear inducing act of divorcing and breaking up a family. Overcoming the fear and taking actions which bring no pleasure is the 'oomph', IMO.

 

Agreed.

 

With cherries on.

[Confused4Now]

Fear is truly paralyzing. Some people fear the unknown and choose to deal with the issue with minimal collateral damage. Not many want to walk unknown. We do offer whatever is missing East. In the end, no matter what, something is lacking whether it's from their partner and/or themselves.

Which is why I don't understand why East talked to his xMW after so many months of NC. The only thing I would want to hear from my xMW is "My divorce is final and I'm sorry what I did to you."

 

I do get the fear part. When I left my marriage hoping to be with my xMW someday. It was the hardest thing I ever did and the unknown is scary but I did it.

[Spark1111]

Seeking emotional/sexual validation from another human, or accepting it, is a relatively neutral act compared to the negative, fear inducing act of divorcing and breaking up a family. Overcoming the fear and taking actions which bring no pleasure is the 'oomph', IMO.

 

How sad for the person supplying the emotional/sexual validation, who may develop feeling for you and hope for a future with you.

 

Truly sad that emotionally and sexually connecting with them was.....neutral, and easier......than avoiding negative fear of divorce.

 

Cowardly, anyone?

[sad puppy]

Yeah, I think cowardice is an extremely big characteristic of cheaters. Afraid to discuss difficult issues, afraid to rock the boat, afraid to be alone, ...

 

So they cheat, and lie to their spouse. It's easy to cheat. And the mess they make, in their wake. Nightmare.

[carhill]

For some, it's a practiced state of mind, honed over many life experiences. For others, they know what they know when they know it. I've seen the differences in the MW's, from the long-practiced, to the 'newbies'. Experience not only hones the skills, it imbues the whole process with a calm confidence. If one examines it dispassionately, there's an elegant pragmatism to it. The ends justify the means.

[johan]

Less is often more!

[East7]

If I would quibble over a word, it might be the word 'makes', replacing it with 'allows' or 'facilitates' or 'enables'. As an OM, I often felt as an 'enabler' and would later learn more about 'co-dependency' in MC. That made sense

 

The original thread title was "The A helps them stay" but LS policy was blocking because (surprisingly) the word "help" is not authorized on the threads.

[East7]

I wonder about the best of all worlds if it means heartache.

 

My A did not help me stay M. It made me realise straight away the things I thought were wrong in the M did indeed go deep.

 

However, even though I am split from my xH now, I still feel a big connection there. I am the sort of person that maintains connections.

 

So in this way, I can undestand a split where the two people are M, it's not right to continue, but it's hard to let go. Not because of messed up things, but just because that's the way M is.

 

I can understand a WS going back to a M, even if all their passion and intimacy lie elsewhere.

 

Even if I have never been married, I can understand how heavy a marriage can weight in someone's life.

 

On the other hand, infidelity is not the only cause that makes people divorce. Infidelity may be a consequence of something dysfunctional (I put apart plain cake-eating). The divorce is very hard to handle but most of the people who have grieved after an A say that the A hurts much more than a regular divorce. The only difference may be in the fact that the decision to divorce is much more extended in time and those who take initiative to break the M, make a gradually and well pondered decision.

 

 

Even a bad M is a M, and it would take either a flighty person or a heart of stone to dissolve it.

 

So to dissolve a M, you have to fully have in you that stone or butterfly.

 

Which raise the question : which is more cruel, to cheat or to divorce ? Personally I would prefer being dumped rather than lied and cheated on. I prefer an upfront "I don't love you anymore" rather than "I loved someone else behind your back and you had no idea but I'm staying with you because I realized that grass is not greener"

[East7]

Seeking emotional/sexual validation from another human, or accepting it, is a relatively neutral act compared to the negative, fear inducing act of divorcing and breaking up a family. Overcoming the fear and taking actions which bring no pleasure is the 'oomph', IMO.

 

It is difficult to gauge which of the consequences is the more devastating. I wouldn't qualify it of "neutral".

 

Even if affairs don't have "material" impacts, the emotional impact is very heavy for all the people involved.

 

Where I agree is that breaking up with an AP is "materially" much more easy than a divorce which implies legal assistance plus assets split, shared custody etc etc. A WS can "dump" an AP overnight and everyone's life will "materially" go on as before.

[carhill]

Ever flirt with someone at a party? Call up a friend? Accept a compliment from someone? Suggest that 'we get together sometime'? All part of the slippery slope of seeking emotional/sexual validation. Was it really that hard? Difficult? Fear/anxiety inducing?

 

IME, the strokes MW's have gotten from me over the decades were easy for them. Nothing. Merely letting it happen. Compared to breaking up their family to 'move on', almost a non-event. That's why they did it. A couple LS ladies here called it 'situational ego feeding' when I described specifics. Whether the dynamic lasted a night or years (I've experienced the gamut), it was still easy and 'convenient', compared to the specter of divorce.

 

My own data point reflects the same dynamic. Was it more 'neutral' to reach out to an old love or end my unhealthy M? Divorce scared the shyte out of me, as well it should have, given the cleaning my clock took in it. Sending a BD card to an old love, not so fear-inducing. Talking on the phone. Traveling. Bla, bla.

 

IME, the people who really good at affairs are both practiced in situational and long term ego feeding and know how to smoothly get what they want, as well as being amazingly compartmentalized in their human relations. Their pragmatism is something I admire, separated from the pain and hurt it causes. Comparatively, I was lousy at it, on both sides of the street. Something for everyone, I guess.

[East7]

Fear is truly paralyzing. Some people fear the unknown and choose to deal with the issue with minimal collateral damage. Not many want to walk unknown. We do offer whatever is missing East. In the end, no matter what, something is lacking whether it's from their partner and/or themselves.

 

Fear of the unknown is a very good point. I think it can be so powerful that it may overweight the desire to be with the AP. But that is a selfish fear because the "unknown" goes both ways and most AP are willing to face it.

 

The unknown is not the only thing they fear. Most WS fear the pain they will inflict to their BS if they go with the AP. Guilt is a powerful retention web.

[jlola]

I don't think it is fear of hurting affair partner rather than fear of the unknown.WS want it all. They want the marriage,security and the fantasy romance. You can't have it all in one person and deep down they understand that. The romance, the longing, the chemistry, the soulmate love can only be obtained through the context of the affair. after that it becomes real life.

 

 

Most are not watching out for anyone but themselves. What benefits them. If affair person is richer than husband and they can guarantee WW they will be married when she divorces most would leave. they would trade up financially in a heartbeat.

Ex: Larry King's wife. Screwing 30 year old gym coach. But would not leave Larry.....That is unless gym coach won a 200 million dollar lottery and asked her to marry. then you would see how fast she would leave.

 

It is simply watching out for #1. If a MM knew he would not have to pay his wife half of what he had or support and the new woman would be there for him and he would not have to downgrade he would probably leave also..

 

Most people who have affairs are very selfish.. You would have to be in order to carry on deception for so long.

 

The #1 excuse is, I will not get to see my kids as often as I do now. LOOK!!!! You are in an affair. Anytime you spend with affair partner in real life, on the phone or internet, in fantasy land or whatever is taking time away from your kids so who are they kidding. If time with kids was so important they would make it precious now.

 

Folks prone to affairs are like monkeys. Always swinging to the other vine. But they want 100% guarantee they will not have to have consequences for their actions. Unfortunately they really do not care to see the destruction they leave behind.

 

They have already demonized,disrespected,lied to and manipulated their spouse. And now they feel guilty for leaving? A Judas does not feel guilt. Only entitlement.