Has anyone survived a split self affair?

[Snowbird]

donnamaybe - No the A is not "doing the right thing". The A was essentially him rebelling against his habit of having always done that previously. The last three months of counselling trying to fix the marriage following the affair were him trying to "do the right thing" which ultimately proved pointless as he wasn't honest with himself or me.

 

Stellar - I am not the OW. I almost wish I were - I'd be able to walk away with my assets intact and no legal ties to sever!

 

PhoenixRise - He will be told to move out, stay out and do what he wants in the meantime, as per this 180 thing. If he wants to keep dithering, I don't want to know about it. I will spend the time he's doing that getting myself in order and making a plan.

[donnamaybe]

I'm sorry, but how does someone go from always doing the right thing to suddenly getting involved in an A and then, when trying to go to counseling, totally sabotages the counseling sessions by lying to all involved? Mid-life crisis?

[Snowbird]

I don't think he was deliberately lying in the counselling or deliberately trying to mislead. In his head, I think he thinks he really was trying.

 

I do think a mid life crisis is a major part of this, affair or not. As I said, he's gradually lost touch with all aspects of his life, not just his marriage. Friends leaving, death of a parent, being made redundant, all in the last few years.

 

None of this excuses his actions, of course.

[Owl]

So either his affair is a "rebellion", and therefore by nature a temporary thing...or it's an indication of who he really is.

 

Here's my suggestion. Stop worrying about "what kind of affair" this is. From my experience and viewpoint...labels on this kind of stuff is pretty much meaningless.

 

You need to stop, look at the situation, and make a choice. Do you choose to try to reconcile, or do you choose to divorce?

 

Pick one.

 

I don't care which one.

 

But pick one. Develop a gameplan to reach that goal. And then work to get there.

 

Spending time and effort trying to "understand" your H's choice to cheat is a useless excersise. He can't tell you why he did it...and quite honestly, it changes nothing. Either work towards divorce, or reconciliation.

 

I do understand the nature of SW's question to you...because in all of my years posting here and on other sites, I've only seen ONE poster mention the whole "split self" affair concept...and she was (in my opinion) just doing so trying to clutch at all of these reasons why she should just continue to accept such shoddy, heartless treatment from her spineless MM who was a mastermind at manipulating both his wife and his OW into maintaining the situation just the way he wanted it for years on end.

 

Given the rarity of this "split self" concept being raised, SW's question was valid.

 

But, this is why I urge you not to fall into that same trap that this OW did, and use this "split self" concept to justify your H's unexcusable, selfish treatment of you and allow yourself to put up with him continuing to cheat on you. If he can't make a choice...make one for him.

[donnamaybe]

I do understand the nature of SW's question to you...because in all of my years posting here and on other sites, I've only seen ONE poster mention the whole "split self" affair concept...and she was (in my opinion) just doing so trying to clutch at all of these reasons why she should just continue to accept such shoddy, heartless treatment from her spineless MM who was a mastermind at manipulating both his wife and his OW into maintaining the situation just the way he wanted it for years on end.

Gotta cosign this one!

[Snowbird]

Thank you for all your advice on this. I just wanted to post a short update.

 

My husband returned after a week, and we spent that evening talking. He had reached no conclusions, and had made things worse as now it seems the OW was willing to resume the affair. Still didn't know what he wanted, still couldn't choose.

 

He stayed overnight in the spare room then went on to his father's the next day, where he told him what he'd done. Obviously his poor father is devastated and angry. After a few "frosty" (!) days with his father in which he'd told his father he still didn't know what he wanted, he went back into London for a day of meetings and a job interview. He called me Monday evening and I told him I didn't want him back. He was welcome to his other woman, they deserved each other.

 

I'm glad I made that decision as it forces him into her hands. She's getting a currently unemployed, living out of a suitcase, emotionally messed up married man nearly 15 years her senior who cannot decide about what he wants to do with his life and their whole relationship is based on lies and deception. Lucky old her!

 

I spoke to a lawyer and I have divorce papers. I can't file them yet as I need a copy of our MC, which I've requested, but will take a couple of weeks. I think I need the breathing space plus some time to mentally and physically separate his stuff that remains in the house.

 

I wish a reconciliation were possible, but I know he's just not capable of doing what would be required, so I'd rather just get out. I'm sure one day his head will clear and he'll realise what he's destroyed (including his relationship with his only blood relative, his father) but I'm not waiting around to see it.

[frozensprouts]

Snowbird,

I'm sorry it had to come to that, but it sounds like you did the right thing for yourself.

Best of luck to you and here's to brighter days ahead:)

[Owl]

Agreed. I think that making a choice (picking a goal) and implementing a plan to reach your goal is your best possible way to deal with infidelity.

 

Now, he's no longer in a position to waffle back and forth and play the two of you against each other...no longer having both of you fighting to meet his 'needs' and let him settle to cake-eat and enjoy the best of both worlds.

 

Don't be surprised if he comes back at a later date trying to find a way to "come back home". Be prepared with a plan on how to deal with that.

[PhoenixRise]

Snowbird

 

 

I am sorry things didn't turn out the way you wanted but I'm glad you made a solid decision in your own best interests.

[Spark1111]

Snowbird, as painful as your decision was, I suspect you may feeling a bit of relief right now.

 

Itstead of obssessing over him, his actions, his OW, his fence-sitting, his confusion -him, him, him!--sit back and enjoy thinking of you!

 

What you want.

 

I agree with Owl in that do not be surprised if, as you grow stronger and more self-assured, he tries to come back.

 

Have definite goals and plans in your mind should that happen. What would it take SNOWBIRD to reconcile with this man, if she even wants to.

 

But kudos to you for even having the strength and courage to remove yourself from his (and her, too) constant drama.

[robf1971]

I didn't want him back. He was welcome to his other woman, they deserved each other.

 

Precisely what all betrayed spouses need to do. Odds on he will come crawling back to you.

[SidLyon]

A marriage can survive a split self affair, but for that to happen both spouses need IC, since both spouses suffer from the same problem, ie wanting to do "the right thing" rather than being in contact with their own emotions. Is this something you feel is true in your case, Snowbird? Would you consider IC in order to save your marriage?

 

I don't believe this is completely correct.

 

Assuming there is such a thing as a split -self affair, which the OP thinks is what happened, I agree that a marriage can survive it.

 

However it cannot be said with certainty that the BS "suffers from the same problem" being "wanting to do the right thing" and not "being in contact with their own emotions". This seems to be some sort of projection that an OW might make to impute some of the negative characteristics of the MM onto the BW.

 

Counseling is of course useful anyway, so your basic advice is sound just not your underlying assumptions.

 

To answer the original question, I believe my fWH had something pretty close to a split-self affair (if such exist). We are now 3.5 years past d-day and we have survived it.

 

The waffling between 2 women can go on for a long time if both women allow it. Bear in mind the OW has "allowed" it for a long time. It's my opinion that the BW is the one, who by not allowing it to continue, can put a stop to the waffling. This may also result in either the marriage or the affair (or even both) ending as the MM realises he cannot continue with both. It isn't easy.

Edited February 23, 2012 by SidLyon

[SidLyon]

As far as I know Emily Brown who coined the term split self affair has never been an OW. It's her ideas I wrote about, not some other woman's.

 

From the article the OP talked about:

 

"And yes, in Split Self situations the betrayed spouse is usually split internally as well."

"Individual therapy needs to be the core treatment modality for Split Selves, ideally for each spouse."

"If only one spouse has worked on healing the internal split, chances for the marriage are very poor - the very growth that is positive for the individual often means outgrowing the other spouse."

 

Ms Brown at least said "usually" although she is wrong.

 

You on the other hand stated it categorically.

 

As I recall you are in fact an OW who is having a long term A with a MM you believe to be split-self. You do not know his BW and so impute to her all sorts of attributes you "know" because of what he's told you.

 

You allow him to be in 2 intimate relationships because of your beliefs about split-selves.

 

The OP was asking other BS's whether their marriages had survived split -self affairs. She might not have expected an OW to answer.

 

I think it would be honest if people declared themselves more on this board. You will find my posts on the OW/OM board often say I'm a BW, if relevant, so posters know and can choose whether to pay attention to what I say.

[SidLyon]

The relevance of the words should not depend on the speaker. I was not speaking of my own experience and history. I was discussing Emily Brown's theory about split self affairs.

 

The relevance, veracity and weight given to words often depends on who's saying them. Communication can depend on people's understanding of where someone else is coming from.

 

You said:

 

"A marriage can survive a split self affair, but for that to happen both spouses need IC, since both spouses suffer from the same problem, ie wanting to do "the right thing" rather than being in contact with their own emotions. Is this something you feel is true in your case, Snowbird? Would you consider IC in order to save your marriage?"

 

You made no mention until later of your words being someone else's ideas.

 

I doubt Emily Brown's ideas are sufficiently rigorous to constitute a theory. I think she's wrong in a lot of respects and I am in a marriage that has recovered from something that she sees fit to attempt to describe. Her ideas may sit well for an OW on the other side, but they are by no means universal for the BSs in the marriages.

[sad puppy]

I had an affair and I think my xMM was a split self. He oftentimes referred to his wife as his "burden" or "obligation", and always said as long as I understood he needed to stay for his kids, then I would understand why he was there. His marriage was sexless for 8 years. He comes from a conservative culture, where divorce was extremely taboo.

 

Anyway, he really struggled with his decision. He moved out of his home back in Sep, is still out as far as I know, last spoke/saw him on Jan 1. Last year he attended MC, with no success. This past fall he bagan IC, who knows if that's helping?

 

But in reading about affairs, yes, I see the split self concept as it applies to another friend of mine, they are just really tied to the idea of "doing the right thing", however, apparently they are capable of having an affair, so the slippery slope begins, .. haha.

 

It's a conflict between "doing the right thing" - being the dependable father, husband, ... v. pursuing what makes them happy emotionally, like being with a partner with shared interests, it's is not always about the sex, at least it was not for me. I watched him waffle, tell himself he needed to "man up", ... it was hard to watch someone try to take a big step forward.

 

I learned a lot in this affair, about myself, about him, about the affair dynamic, and all about psychological conditions that make life hard, for anyone, should they find themselves involved in a triangle.

 

Somewhere in all this in my relationship, I believe there is love addiction, love avoidance - 2 more theories I recently read about. My dad died when I was 6 and have always thought that has contributed to my relationship troubles, but having had an affair, maybe I have "picked" a man that would leave me, just as my dad did. I don't know? It's all very sad.

 

So, last I hear my xMM was to have two mediation meetings. But it all may have changed, I walked away, it was very challenging. I love him, I know he loves me, it's pretty simple, if it's meant to be, it will. But I have walked away and do not know if we will ever see/speak again.

 

For us all to become healthy, make the right choices, find our way out of challenging situations that we are responsible for, ...reading about psychological insights, I believe is quite helpful. Life is messy, we get one chance around, so we had better use everything at our disposal to move in the direction of mental health. Good luck to everyone! Life is so hard sometimes.

[sad puppy]

Have a clearly defined goal...and a well-thought out plan of action to reach your goal.

 

Most important 'first steps' you can take towards your own personal recovery from all of this.

 

Owl, I find your advice, regardless of the position anyone is in, to be quite helpful. You sound like the calm, rational adult in the room, getting everyone to focus and pay attention and be proactive.

 

I always look forward to your comments.

[Spark1111]

Emily Brown espouses three types of Affairs:

 

The Conflict Avoidant

 

The Intimacy Avoidant

 

The Split Self (almost ALWAYS a person of middle age in crisis who has ALWAYS suppressed their true feelings for the good of others and they almost ALWAYS choose a single person years younger because they want the passion they never knew how to ask for, or that they never felt they had.)

 

If you embrace her theories, ALL three have major emotional problems that require a lot of therapy; the SPLIT SELF the most, years actually. They have so lost touch with their TRUE feelings, they no longer no what their true feelings are, or how to express them if they do.

 

Not one of the three sounds like much of a relational catch for a long-term partner, IMO.

 

Can't save them. Can't change them. Only they can change themselves.

[sad puppy]

Yep and in my case, actually all 3 types were present in my xMM. And it's thru all my research that I realized he needs a lot of work and I needed to step out. I keep reminding myself of this everyday. It boils down to lack of courage as a man, a very confused, lost man.

[donnamaybe]

 

The bolded above is always true in a relationship. You can not change your partner. Each of you needs to go down the path of change of your own will.

 

And some want no change whatsoever. They are precisely where they want to be which is having one person at home and another on the sidelines enabling the cheater in his/her lying and sneaking.

[sad puppy]

And some want no change whatsoever. They are precisely where they want to be which is having one person at home and another on the sidelines enabling the cheater in his/her lying and sneaking.

 

This is absolutely correct! Things my xMM said to me: "I don't want to lose everything I have worked for", "I don't want to lose you", 2 incongruent statements, it's gonna be one or the other. If he had the dream choice of whatever he wished to come true, he absolutely would have chosen to stay married with the benefits of "not losing everything he worked for", the social position of "good husband and father" (yeah, right), the family vacations, the built in wife taking care of the kids while he was out at night, ... and me, on the side, for romance, sex, attention, affection. For him, I am sure, this would have been ideal.

 

But I began battering him about the situation just about 6 weeks into our affair. We never saw each other much, but when we did, yeah, it was a very strong love, no doubt. But he kept mosying along the path, and I started getting very demanding about the "cake and eat it situation". He did eventually tell her about the affair, moved out, and only time will tell if he separated on his way to divorce or separated on his way back to the sexless, dysfunctional marriage. And btw, this ridculous behavior of cheating, distance in the marriage, separating, telling kids that "daddy has a lady friend and that's why mommy is sad" is BS for people that claim to "love their kids so much". BS! Figure out your path one way or the other & stop impacting your kids with your lack of courage & honesty - one way or the other. Geez.

 

But, yep, as long as these guys can keep the whole ball of wax going, they will. That's why the OW need to speak up, make their voice heard, and walk the hell out. I figure this applies to most of the cheaters, they would like both - all the while cheating both women out of a relationship built on love, honesty, devotion. Took me quite awhile to drum up the courage to put a fork in it and go NC, but it must be done.

[frozensprouts]

perhaps, when one gets right down to it, does it really matter what kind of label you put on affair...people still get hurt by it...you can rationalize that all you want, but it doesn't change that one simple fact.

[Radagast]

perhaps, when one gets right down to it, does it really matter what kind of label you put on affair...people still get hurt by it...you can rationalize that all you want, but it doesn't change that one simple fact.

 

I find it interesting that understanding gets dismissed as "rationalisation". What is so frightening about learning? Personally I prefer to understand why something happens as a first step in learning how to address it.

[donnamaybe]

I find it interesting that understanding gets dismissed as "rationalisation". What is so frightening about learning? Personally I prefer to understand why something happens as a first step in learning how to address it.

Learning? Really?

 

I don't think it takes classroom time to know that lying and sneaking around are a coward's way and a despicable way of handling things.

[frozensprouts]

I find it interesting that understanding gets dismissed as "rationalisation". What is so frightening about learning? Personally I prefer to understand why something happens as a first step in learning how to address it.

 

i agree, but my response was to a poster who seemed to be trying to negate that pain an affair could cause because they seemed to feel that labeling something somehow excused it - i.e.- if you label it, it somehow excuses it( those posts have since been removed )