EnigmaticClarity Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 The girls may also be "hot" because of my own perception. I think most women my age and in my area are very attractive. It's that whole "I find beauty in every person." For example, I looked through the MyBody Gallery for an example of my body type, and I had a really hard time finding one because I thought all of them looked great! So the girls may not be less hot than I perceive them as being. This is why I feel knowing your "level", "league", comparative attractiveness, or whatever you want to call it, is important. If you look at people of all types--ugly, below average, average, above average, hot, superhot--and know how you compare, you can have a better idea for who to shoot for who isn't as likely to later become disillusioned that they "settled." Knowing your comparative worth is a powerful thing. Guys dumping you for upgrades happens more at your age (26) than mine (40). I couldn't do that myself even when I was younger than you, though, so you've either had some ****ty luck or I've got a more distinct sense of honor or a more optimistic view of people to look past their flaws than your exes have. Link to post Share on other sites
ptp Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) The guys I'm talking about are the chubby (or rail-skinny, not a pound of muscle on them) nerds. Maybe I live in a weird area, but there are a lot more women than men around, and the women are usually hot (and nerdy, as well.) So even the supposedly-undesirable guys have their pick of attractive girls. The girls may also be "hot" because of my own perception. I think most women my age and in my area are very attractive. It's that whole "I find beauty in every person." For example, I looked through the MyBody Gallery for an example of my body type, and I had a really hard time finding one because I thought all of them looked great! So the girls may not be less hot than I perceive them as being. Your really believe this? What magical city in the Midwest is this? I have lived in the midwest a long time and in all my travels, I have never run across this mythical city. "Hot" nerdy girls outnumbering undesireable guys? Edited February 15, 2012 by ptp Link to post Share on other sites
ScreamingTrees Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Firstly, i ask of you: Please don't listen to the poster above the one i quoted. Personally, i tend to find such unilateral and oversimplistic advices quite dangerous. But hey, this is my point of view... To each his own. If you were referring to me, do you really think my advice is "dangerous"? To accept who she is and make the best of what she has? How is that really any different from you telling her she's no better or worse, simply different? Same brand of ****, different wordings. That's all any of us can ever do to help ourselves, and some of us don't want to do it until we're just so desensitized to everything else that we just sort of "give up" and hit the point where the only way is back up. I simply stated that most surgeries really don't change much anyway, she's not going to look like a totally different person unless she changes everything about her. And why do that? Why become someone else when there's nothing wrong with you? Chances are she'll find fault with her "transformation" no matter what - and if you keep getting surgery, eventually your ears and nose might fall off wacko jacko style. How would you feel THEN? Would you rather be who you are, or mrs. potato head? Or the cat dudes? Link to post Share on other sites
Professor X Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Your really believe this? What magical city in the Midwest is this? I have lived in the midwest a long time and in all my travels, I have never run across this mythical city. "Hot" nerdy girls outnumbering undesireable guys? Haven I tell you, haven!!! GIVE US NAME OF CITY VERHRZN, PLZ, I BEG YOU!! Link to post Share on other sites
somedude81 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Your really believe this? What magical city in the Midwest is this? I have lived in the midwest a long time and in all my travels, I have never run across this mythical city. "Hot" nerdy girls outnumbering undesireable guys? I definitely want to go where she lives. Hot nerdy girls and none of the guys have any muscle on them. Sounds like I'd make a killing. Link to post Share on other sites
iris219 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 The guys I'm talking about are the chubby (or rail-skinny, not a pound of muscle on them) nerds. Maybe I live in a weird area, but there are a lot more women than men around, and the women are usually hot (and nerdy, as well.) So even the supposedly-undesirable guys have their pick of attractive girls. That makes sense; it’s similar where I live. I was hoping it was different in other areas. This is one of the reasons why I sympathize with you. It is extremely difficult, in many areas, to find single men period. When the women outnumber the men, it's nearly impossible. Really, this is most likely the problem, not your looks or personality. Unkempt, out of shape, unattractive guys where I live get very attractive women because there are no men. These guys are gross, and they’re juggling several attractive women. Many aren’t educated and barely have jobs. I believe the ones in your area at least value education and have some career ambition. That’s another positive! By your assessment, we're both 6's, yet he often told me how much hotter other girls were (he was the one who originally went for my friend and wound up with me, the consolation prize, instead.) He dumped me for a hotter geek girl. So he got the looks he wanted AND the great personality, instead of having to "settle" for the less attractive girl with the personality. What did you do the first time he said he thought other women were hotter? Clearly, you stuck around long enough for him to say this repeatedly. Never do this again! As soon as you're disrespected, you walk or establish a clear boundary. You do not tolerate someone treating you the way he did. Link to post Share on other sites
ScreamingTrees Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 This is what I've been saying all along. Looks aren't everything, guys do fall in love with personality, but they have to find you attractive first in order for them to bother getting to know you as a person. If you have an awesome personality, but you're unattractive... guess what, they think of you as an awesome friend, not a girlfriend. I'm not really sure what is so "negative" about acknowledging this truth. Would anyone really dispute it?? Uh.. The fact that this guy went on a date with you means nothing, I guess? He didn't find you attractive at all, you think? Think he was wasting his time? Maybe you think he was trying to get in your pants? How many attractive guys REALLY want to sleep with unattractive girls when there are attractive girls who're just as promiscuous as they are? Anyone with self respect would rather masturbate than have quick flings with girls that they're physically repulsed by. And Nancy, it takes two to tango. Nobody's a saint here. You're either true to your personal moral code, or you aren't. It's down to the individual. Link to post Share on other sites
zengirl Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Your really believe this? What magical city in the Midwest is this? I have lived in the midwest a long time and in all my travels, I have never run across this mythical city. "Hot" nerdy girls outnumbering undesireable guys? I've never seen such a place either, especially in the MidWest. Actually, hot nerdy girls are rare even where there ARE hot girls, IME. I think more nerdy men are hot (in a classically attractive way) than nerdy women, everywhere I've gone. Some nerdy girls I've met are hot -- I like to count myself among them -- but most of my nerdy female friends are average, with many being either overweight (much more than your perceived weight issues, V!) or taking no care of themselves, really. Granted, I live in the South, so maybe there's an option for you V: Move to a major city in the Southeast. I've traveled all over the U.S. and I didn't know there was a hot, nerdy girl mecca (or I guess a mecca for guys who like them) anywhere in the Midwest. I daresay it surprises me too. As to small towns, as iris mentions, I think you're likely to find pretty few attractive men in small towns who aren't snapped up. Men in small towns are less likely to take care of themselves, whereas women in small towns are more likely to be the type to take care of themselves, so you might find that disparity, but really, there's just very few single people in small towns. Iris, it IS different other places. Maybe V lives in a place with less available men, I don't know, but I've lived in oodles of cities with plenty of attractive, single men where they were not, in any way, vastly outnumbered by women. Link to post Share on other sites
Author verhrzn Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 Your really believe this? What magical city in the Midwest is this? I have lived in the midwest a long time and in all my travels, I have never run across this mythical city. "Hot" nerdy girls outnumbering undesireable guys? I'll help ya out; it's not Chicago, Madison, or Milwaukee. There, that should narrow it down, shouldn't it? Or this: go to ConVergence. It's the con I went to last year, and I saw either couples, or lots of groups of girls walking around. Me and a friend actually went on a hunt for single guys, and after an hour only found about 5. Compare that to the Waltz the con sponsored, where there were at least a dozen of us girls without partners. (The DJ actually started asking for single guys to step up because so many ladies were without partners.) Link to post Share on other sites
ScreamingTrees Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I'll help ya out; it's not Chicago, Madison, or Milwaukee. There, that should narrow it down, shouldn't it? Or this: go to ConVergence. It's the con I went to last year, and I saw either couples, or lots of groups of girls walking around. Me and a friend actually went on a hunt for single guys, and after an hour only found about 5. Compare that to the Waltz the con sponsored, where there were at least a dozen of us girls without partners. (The DJ actually started asking for single guys to step up because so many ladies were without partners.) Are you ****ting me? WHERE IS THIS PLACE? ... Minnesota? Hmmm.. Interesting.. Maybe I'll have to take a trip there sometime. Link to post Share on other sites
zengirl Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I'll help ya out; it's not Chicago, Madison, or Milwaukee. There, that should narrow it down, shouldn't it? Or this: go to ConVergence. It's the con I went to last year, and I saw either couples, or lots of groups of girls walking around. Me and a friend actually went on a hunt for single guys, and after an hour only found about 5. Compare that to the Waltz the con sponsored, where there were at least a dozen of us girls without partners. (The DJ actually started asking for single guys to step up because so many ladies were without partners.) Single, nerdy guys don't really go to 'waltzes' (even con-sponsored) without dates, so the latter does not surprise me but the fact that there are WAY more hot, nerdy girls in your assessment in Minneapolis total than there are hot, nerdy guys does surprise me. You're telling me that if you walk into the local brew pub (which is generally a nerdy hangout in ANY city), you find a bunch of hot women and very few single men? Link to post Share on other sites
ptp Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I'll help ya out; it's not Chicago, Madison, or Milwaukee. There, that should narrow it down, shouldn't it? Or this: go to ConVergence. It's the con I went to last year, and I saw either couples, or lots of groups of girls walking around. Me and a friend actually went on a hunt for single guys, and after an hour only found about 5. Compare that to the Waltz the con sponsored, where there were at least a dozen of us girls without partners. (The DJ actually started asking for single guys to step up because so many ladies were without partners.) The place you are talking about is about as real as the lost city of Atlantis. I did my undergrad at a top engineering school in the midwest on par with Berkeley and MIT thus, it had a huge engineering department. In 4 years, I can count on 2 hands the number of women that fall into the "hot" and nerdy category. Yet you somehow live in a place that has such an abundance of "hot" nerdy chicks that even undesirable guys get them? Puh lease. I have actually been to Minny when visiting a friend and I didn't perceive it the way you do. IMO your view of what constitutes an attractive guy and girl is skewed. To be honest it doesn't surprise me that you think this way. I'll pull a quote from an OKC blog entry you posted about: women rate an incredible 80% of guys as worse-looking than medium. Very harsh When 80% of guys are considered below average in the looks department something is wrong. Link to post Share on other sites
GoodOnPaper Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 But it's getting to the core issue that V is having. The whole feeling that if she isn't #1, then she doesn't count at all. True . . . but why does she feel that way? The answer may be the real core issue at hand. V believes -- seemingly to the point of redemption or salvation proportions -- that there is this ultimate emotional satisfaction associated with being "drooled" over by guys (or at least by one she wants to date). Purely physical attraction always seems to be much stronger than longer-term relationship-based attraction, even when you don't want it to be or feel that it should be (I understand -- I struggle with this myself). The problem is that this mindset may be setting up expectations that no guy will ever be able to meet . . . are satisfying relationships even possible then? Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 V, you say you want a relationship. But you aren't willing to give a guy a chance. Really, you could be seen as incredibly unforgiving. No matter how well he treats you, how much he is attracted to you, you will never trust him if he didn't want you the most from the start. You need to talk to a therapist about this specific thought process. If you continue to be so distrustful, you will be alone for a long time Link to post Share on other sites
Author verhrzn Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 V, you say you want a relationship. But you aren't willing to give a guy a chance. Really, you could be seen as incredibly unforgiving. No matter how well he treats you, how much he is attracted to you, you will never trust him if he didn't want you the most from the start. You need to talk to a therapist about this specific thought process. If you continue to be so distrustful, you will be alone for a long time What guy am I not giving a chance to?? No guy asks me out, and all the ones I pursue reject me for hotter girls. Link to post Share on other sites
Lonely Ronin Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 What guy am I not giving a chance to?? No guy asks me out, and all the ones I pursue reject me for hotter girls. I believe this is a hypothetical scenario, and that she means you are writing off every guy that's doesn't have you at the top of his list. In other words, if you're in a bar and see a guy walk up to a woman, you automatically reject him because he didn't approach you. Link to post Share on other sites
zengirl Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 IMO your view of what constitutes an attractive guy and girl is skewed. To be honest it doesn't surprise me that you think this way. I'll pull a quote from an OKC blog entry you posted about: When 80% of guys are considered below average in the looks department something is wrong. This is a good point. I perused the Minneapolis OKC just now for research and I saw plenty of guys I'd deem 'attractive.' Plenty of attractive girls, but not a bunch of knockouts that give normally attractive girls like V no chance to land a guy. True . . . but why does she feel that way? The answer may be the real core issue at hand. V believes -- seemingly to the point of redemption or salvation proportions -- that there is this ultimate emotional satisfaction associated with being "drooled" over by guys (or at least by one she wants to date). Purely physical attraction always seems to be much stronger than longer-term relationship-based attraction, even when you don't want it to be or feel that it should be (I understand -- I struggle with this myself). The problem is that this mindset may be setting up expectations that no guy will ever be able to meet . . . are satisfying relationships even possible then? Interesting. I've always been the opposite myself, with emotional connections being much stronger than lust, to the point where I can be attracted to a man but don't develop strong lust until I am pretty much in love, so I don't really understand that mindset. I wouldn't categorize lust or purely physical attraction as enduring or strong at all, IMO. Lust fades. Link to post Share on other sites
Author verhrzn Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 I believe this is a hypothetical scenario, and that she means you are writing off every guy that's doesn't have you at the top of his list. In other words, if you're in a bar and see a guy walk up to a woman, you automatically reject him because he didn't approach you. And what, most women wouldn't?? I think most girls wouldn't want to get approached after they see the guy get shot down, because they correctly assume he's just a player in search of a warm body. Don't people want to feel special? Don't people want to feel as if their partner choose them for who they were, and not because he exhausted all his other options? Link to post Share on other sites
Queen Zenobia Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 And what, most women wouldn't?? I think most girls wouldn't want to get approached after they see the guy get shot down, because they correctly assume he's just a player in search of a warm body. Don't people want to feel special? Don't people want to feel as if their partner choose them for who they were, and not because he exhausted all his other options? How can someone YOU JUST MET make you feel special? This makes no sense. Should I feel diminished because I'm not the first gal my fiance was interested in? Should he feel bad because he's not the first guy I dated? Link to post Share on other sites
oaks Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 And what, most women wouldn't?? I think most girls wouldn't want to get approached after they see the guy get shot down, because they correctly assume he's just a player in search of a warm body. Don't people want to feel special? Don't people want to feel as if their partner choose them for who they were, and not because he exhausted all his other options? Hypothetically speaking, what's a reasonable amount of time that should elapse after a guy gets rejected before he should approach you to avoid getting this reaction from you? Or is it just that his previous rejection shouldn't be visible to you? (I'm assuming, since you're no longer a teenager, that there's no practical chance that you would be the very first person a guy would ever have asked out and hence would already have some rejection experience.) Link to post Share on other sites
Lonely Ronin Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 And what, most women wouldn't?? I think most girls wouldn't want to get approached after they see the guy get shot down, because they correctly assume he's just a player in search of a warm body. Don't people want to feel special? Don't people want to feel as if their partner choose them for who they were, and not because he exhausted all his other options? Yes if the guy is hitting on a different woman every 15 minutes, then I agree he is probably a player or drunk, and pretty much every woman is going to give him the cold shoulder. Lets say he goes back and talks with his friends for 4 hours, and then approaches you are you going to reject him? I mean maybe he didn't even see you the first time. If he approaches you a week or month later, are you going to reject him? The question i would very much like to hear you answer, is when is it Ok for the guy to approach you? I get the distinct feeling that most of us(LS posters) think your answer never. Link to post Share on other sites
FitChick Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I want my "how to get self esteem" to read like stereo instructions. "Insert piece A into slot B." This whole "accept the broken cup, feel the natural flow of the universe!" is confusing and vague. I agree, That's why I've been encouraging you to try one phone session (unless you live near Novato, CA) of the Lefkoe Method: "Our change processes are very focused in nature. What this means is that we won't spend weeks or months trying to get at the core causes of your issues. We actually identify the roots of your problems in the first session and then we immediately get to work eliminating these "roots." "And from our nearly 24 years of experience working with over 18,000 people in over 30 countries we've found that almost always the roots of a given problem are a set of beliefs formed early in life. "And we've created processes we call The Lefkoe Method that literally unwire these beliefs for good. When you go through them you will actually find that you can't believe your old belief any more, even if you try! Also, all the consequences of having the belief will literally disappear. You will feel and behave differently and these changes will last for the rest of your life. We've even got independent scientific research that shows that The Lefkoe Method works and that the changes last." I just called the number on their website and spoke to Shelly. She said one session is $200 and you should call (415) 884-0552 to schedule with a facilitator. So I don't know if she no longer works directly with clients but it sounds like they have several trained facilitators who could work around your schedule for a phone session. Link to post Share on other sites
Author verhrzn Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 Yes if the guy is hitting on a different woman every 15 minutes, then I agree he is probably a player or drunk, and pretty much every woman is going to give him the cold shoulder. Lets say he goes back and talks with his friends for 4 hours, and then approaches you are you going to reject him? I mean maybe he didn't even see you the first time. If he approaches you a week or month later, are you going to reject him? The question i would very much like to hear you answer, is when is it Ok for the guy to approach you? I get the distinct feeling that most of us(LS posters) think your answer never. If I don't see it, and I don't hear about it, then there's not really a problem. If it's in front of me somehow (I see it, he tells me about it), then my ideal would be for him to wait to hit on me until the next time he sees me. So if he hits on a woman at a party in front of me, then he shouldn't hit on me until the next party. Link to post Share on other sites
fortyninethousand322 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 If I don't see it, and I don't hear about it, then there's not really a problem. If it's in front of me somehow (I see it, he tells me about it), then my ideal would be for him to wait to hit on me until the next time he sees me. So if he hits on a woman at a party in front of me, then he shouldn't hit on me until the next party. This sounds like a crazy thing that I would say. I'm a pretty delusional person about these things and even I think you should chill out a bit. Link to post Share on other sites
Author verhrzn Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 This sounds like a crazy thing that I would say. I'm a pretty delusional person about these things and even I think you should chill out a bit. ... And exactly why is it so bad?? Again, what girl out there wants to be a number in a line that a guy goes down in order to attractiveness? Link to post Share on other sites
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