carhill Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 OP, take the ball JazzyFox threw at you and run with it. Make a MC appointment for next week. Take time off work. Arrange for a baby-sitter. Tell your wife in clear words how important this is to you and that your marriage depends on it. Then, go. If you find yourself in that office with her, that's one answer. If you're alone, that's another answer. Accept the answers which life brings you. Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 If she is faced with a clear choice of "sex" or "divorce" and chooses "sex," then she can tell him what her preferences are. Wow, that sounds like the foundation for a really miserable sex life, and marriage. Good luck with that sad approach. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Sounds really intimate and hot, doesn't it? Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I don't see it as part of my job/obligation/responsibility to "turn a woman on!" No? But it's a woman's job/ obligation / responsibility to have sex with you? Even though, with your attitude, it's clearly either a horrible or snoozeworthy experience? You really need to take your pillow and blanket and go sleep on the couch until you become properly trained. It should only take your wife a few weeks to get you straightened out. If it doesn't, it's time for the ultimatum: "Turn me on, or divorce." (if you actually had a wife, that is) Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Oklahoma, have you missed the fact that the OP hasn't been initiating sex, either? THere is a huge communication break down between the OP and his wife. She may be missing the sex, and wishing her husband wanted her like he used to..... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 It's not his job to get her "hot." It's her job to be "hot" for him. No, it's not. Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 OP, if you're still reading, does your wife ever ask you about your day, how you're feeling, about your dreams/aspirations/fears? By that I mean proactively ask. Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 In fact, it's not "A-OK" with me for a wife to "train" her husband that he needs to accept a sexless marriage. It's not "A-OK" with me for a husband to demand sex from his wife with no care about her pleasure - which I am NOT saying the OP did or does; I am responding to "Oklahoma" here. The sexual aspect of a marriage is the responsibility of both partners. Each one is entitled to have their needs met and further, to really feel good about the marital sex. If this is not happening, both people need to work on fixing it. It's not an issue of making demands. If one of the partners refuses to work on fixing the sexual problems, the marriage is likely to be in serious trouble and I would not fault the unhappy spouse (whether it is husband or wife) if they no longer wanted to remain in a sexually unfulfilling marriage. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 A maladjusted reaction to having been forced to eat the dreaded peas as a child. Dude, the "pea analogy" was not used in relationship to the OP and his problem. It was used in relation to YOUR fine advice that the wife put out NOW or go sleep on the couch. As in, "eat your peas NOW or go directly to your room, bad little kid." You are the one bringing the sexual relationship of married people into the realm of an authority figure wielding power over a lesser individual. That's sick. How ridiculous and laughable that Mme. Chaucer would actually float the notion that she--that any woman--would remain sexually unattractive, not "hot," simply out of pure spite at the notion that it would please the man for her to be hot, and she's not going to give him that (because her being hot and the man appreciating that effort are like being forced to eat peas)? But it's typical. What on Earth are you talking about? I can't imagine where you got that from anything I posted. If it makes you laugh, though, I'm happy, because you sound like a rage-fueled psycho. Laughing might help you. Link to post Share on other sites
frozensprouts Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 But that's just the point. When adults are in a healthy relationship with each other, they shouldn't view reasonable requests or expectations about what happens in the relationship as an imposition by a parent, because it's not. It's simply a choice or a request, clearly stated. The problem is when one adult perceives the request by their partner through the lens of a childhood in which they were forced to eat peas. They are psychologically responding like that little child who was forced to eat peas rather than as an adult. Janesays did it; now you've done it. And undoubtedly OP and his spouse have been doing it to each other during their relationship. No one is forcing OP's wife to eat peas. No one is forcing her to have sex. At all. But she is being asked to act like an adult partner in a marriage. She is being asked to make a decision, like an adult, not like a child, about what the necessary conditions are for the relationship to continue. I seriously hope that when your spouse tells you "Tonight we're having peas with dinner" you don't react the way you would have as a child being forced by a parent to have peas that they didn't like. You either say "Thanks" or "No thanks." You don't, or shouldn't, have a big hissy fit because "You KNOW I HATE PEAS BECAUSE MOMMY ALWAYS FORCED ME TO EAT THEM!!!!! WHY ARE YOU FORCING ME? WHY DO YOU HATE ME???" Because you're not a child anymore, you need to stop bringing a child's perspective to adult issues. We all do, and it can be very difficult. Sex is not peas. Your spouse is not your parent. Being given a choice is not being "forced" to do something simply because the choice forces one to make a decision, take action, make progress or change of some kind. So you are actually saying that whenever your spouse makes a request of you, if you don't happen to feel like doing it, you react the same way as when your Mom forced you to eat peas as a child? When you truly had no choice in the matter? Unbelievable. Absolutely. I wouldn't have said it if I didn't think it would help. It will force them both to clarify whether sex is going to play any significant role in the relationship going forward. Are you actually claiming that if you denied sex to your spouse for years at a time, it would not be legitimate for him to divorce you (or vice versa) in order to find someone he was more sexually compatible with? The alternative would be having an affair which I don't think really solves anything except the immediate sexual need, so I wouldn't advocate that. Well you've stated that you think it's the same as being forced to eat peas by your Mom. (Another difference of course is you never ever expressed a desire or like for eating peas to your Mom in the first place. It's obviously different because they got married with the expectation that they both enjoyed sex, not that they hated it.) Giving someone a clear choice is not a threat. The wife is being given a choice. She doesn't have to ever have sex with him again. But then she needs to know divorce will follow. That's up to her. You know it's funny that you would try to turn the situation completely around. That somehow you view the actuality (not just the perceived "threat") of an ongoing sexless marriage, and the threat that it will continue to be a sexless marriage, as not significant. Yes, it is a choice, and no, no one has been backed into a corner, expect possibly someone who married with the expectation of a satisfactory sex life and is being deprived of it. The problem is you don't like the choice because it takes the wife's power away--not the power over herself, which she always retain!--but her exercise of power over her husband, via continued denial of sexual intimacy. That really bugs you, doesn't it--since it's one of the primary tools in a woman's emotional arsenal. The notion that it's easy enough to take that tool away is just about freaking you out, isn't it? I wouldn't feel forced at all. If my spouse--and this is true whether the issue is sex or anything else--it could be drinking, it could be flirting around, it could be spending too much time on a hobby--if my spouse felt aggrieved enough about something I was doing, or not doing, to mention "divorce," you can BET I would listen very carefully and try my best to deal with her concerns. I certainly wouldn't say "Nyah nyah nyah you can't TELL ME WHAT TO DO!!!!!" I wouldn't reflexively NOT do something that she WANTED me to do simply because it was so important to her....on the contrary, I WOULD BEND OVER BACKWARDS to make her happy. (Because I'm an adult. With a choice. The choice to try to make my spouse happy, even if it requires effort on my part. Not a little child being forced to eat peas.) oh for gods sake, stop being obtuse... the ADULT thing to do in the OP situation, would be for the two of them to sit down together and try, as a couple, to find out where the problem lies. If she has trouble expressing herself about it verbally, then they may be able to find an alternative method for her to do so. Who knows...maybe she is sick, maybe she's dead tired and doesn't know why, maybe she somehow feels like she's not being a good mom, maybe she gained weight, has stretch marks, a "pregnancy mask", etc. from pregnancy and she feels really unattractive, maybe she had a difficult pregnancy/birth and is afraid of getting pregnant again, maybe he's doing something that bothers her, who knows. But she needs to tell him so that they can address it and move forward. If she can't, then getting third party help in the form of medical attention ( if she has a medical issue) or counseling ( if it's a psychological issue) may be necessary. If it were me in his situation, that would be my ultimatum...not "sex or divorce" but rather" find out why we aren't having sex or intimacy and fix the problem or divorce as for how me and my husband handle things...well, we are adults. We TALK about issues that come up, and there have been some pretty big ones. I can't claim that we solved them all in the best way, but we also don't give each other ultimatums as a "first resort"...they are ( and I only recall ever using one once) an option of last resort. If he doesn't like something but I do, we talk about it and try and reach a comprise that makes both of us happy....sometimes I do things that I don't enjoy because it makes him happy and that makes me happy. also,please keep in mind that the OP is only able to present his side of things ( which is completely understandable)...what is her side? We have no real way of knowing, as no matter what our own life experiences may be, we have no way of knowing what hers are... and remember...getting counseling,help in your marriage from a clergy member, psychologist, etc. does not mean your marriage "failed"...any more than seeing a doctor if you have a health problem means that you have failed. Link to post Share on other sites
frozensprouts Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 They already have a really miserable (actually non existent) sex life and miserable marriage. I'm not sure why you think communicating clear expectations and boundaries for the sexual part of the relationship is a sad approach. It's a mature, adult approach. It's almost as if you wrote your comment without even bothering to read what was actually happening in OP's marriage. That's not very helpful. something I'd like to know... would you rather have your wife have sex with you because she loves you and wants to do something that will make you happy and bond the two of you closer together or would you want her to have sex with you because she is scarred that if she doesn't say "yes" you'll ask for a divorce but maybe I am misunderstanding what you wrote...please tell me if I am wrong. are you saying a man should tell his wife: " having sex is important to me because i enjoy it with you and i want you to enjoy it too, but you don't seem to enjoy it or want it. Something has to change. I given it some time, and since nothing has changed, then we need to get a counselor, etc. to get to the root of the problem. if that fails, and nothing changes, then I don't see us staying together as I am not happy living like this. " ( this makes sense to me. You have expressed your unhappiness, set your boundaries in a way that gives her every chance to respond positively, and created a potential for the two of your to resolve some issues that you may have and become even closer as a couple) or are you saying " as your husband, i have a right to expect to have sex with you. so it's either we have sex when I want it, or I am out of here" ( I don't think you'd use those words, of course, but the intent ) which is it that you are saying? Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I'm not sure how more of a direct initiation or request for sex there could be then "We are having sex tonight" with the ultimatum of a divorce if the initiation is refused repeatedly. That's how you initiate sex? Wow! HOT! Link to post Share on other sites
frozensprouts Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Sorry ladies--she's responsible for her lack of ability to be intimate. Not OP. It's not his job to get her "hot." It's her job to be "hot" for him. but what is his job? isn't it to be "hot" for her? I'm sorry OP, but this discussion has gotten some what sidetracked. There is some wisdom is the posts though...I hope you and your wife are able to get this all sorted out in a way that makes both of you happy... I would highly suggest counseling to the two of you...it may make a world of difference Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Where did I ever say he shouldn't care about her pleasure? Again you're drawing a completely irrational conclusion. From this: I don't see it as part of my job/obligation/responsibility to "turn a woman on!" Women generally know within seconds or at most minutes if they are sexually attracted to a man. No "turning on" is necessary Being "turned on" sexually is part of sexual pleasure. That's what foreplay, romance, etc. help with. Being "turned on" is not the same as being attracted to someone, though there can certainly be crossover. The problem you and others are having is your extreme resistance to the notion that the man in the relationship has a choice, too. He does NOT have to stay married to an unloving, asexual woman. Sorry if it freaks you out but understanding that we ALL have a choice is essential to making any progress. I have zero resistance to that notion; that's why I wrote: If one of the partners refuses to work on fixing the sexual problems, the marriage is likely to be in serious trouble and I would not fault the unhappy spouse (whether it is husband or wife) if they no longer wanted to remain in a sexually unfulfilling marriage. Drives some of you women crazy that a man would respond to perpetual sexual blackmail by exiting the relationship entirely. But sexual blackmail and coercion is fine if men do it? Because "if you don't have sex with me, you are sleeping on the couch, and if you refuse 3 times, I'm dumping your ass" certainly is coercive and sexual blackmail. No. That's where you get it wrong. They're not "entitled" to have their needs met. They're entitled to "try", not to a "guarantee." This, I agree with, and it's actually what I intended to say. I don't, in fact, think that married people are "entitled" to having their sexual needs met within the marriage; I think they are "entitled" to expect their spouse to make good effort to fulfill them If the OP is a horrible sexual partner (not saying you are, OP!) and constantly neglected his wife's pleasure, and she did communicate with him about how it could be much better - and he still was BAD - I don't think it's her "wifely duty" to continue to be used as a hole. But, I'll repeat - I don't think anybody is duty bound to stay in a sexless, or sexually bereft marriage. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
frozensprouts Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 oklahoma... first asking you to stop being obtuse is not name calling and yes, i did have trouble, at first, giving him an ultimatum. I wanted to do everything I could to keep our marriage together. I mae huge allownaces for him to figure out what he wanted. But here is the area where you yourself are thinking like a child...you are basically acting like a child and saying " if you don't give me the cookies I'm going to run away from home "and mommy gives you a cookie. The child then walks away with a big grin on his face because he got his own way, who the heck cares how his threat made his mom feel My didn't stay because I gave him an ultimatum. While that may have worked to get him to decide to stay in our marriage in the sort term, that wouldn't have been enough to make him stay if he was really unhappy...and why would I have wanted that anyway? What purpose would it serve? To keep our marriage together knowing he had only stayed because I made an ultimatum but he was really unhappy? To me, that seems abysmally cruel. Yes, if the OP makes that demand, she may have sex with him, all the while feeling like she's being forced (I know you don't see it that way, but a lot of people would). Is that really what he wants? Or would he want to have sex woth her knowing that she, fully and freely, wothout fear or threat, wnats to have sex wth him because she loves him? Counseling will help with that...your idea will not. ( and, BTW, I did suggest that if she has trouble expressing her thoughts through speaking, then writing them may help. The same may work for him.) Link to post Share on other sites
Floridaman Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) Facts: -i'm 32 and she's 30 No exaggeration, I'm almost certain that we had sex maybe 2-3 times last year. Maybe i'm to blame because I know she's tired most of the time from being one-on-one with baby all day so I don't push sex..but then she never initiates it either. She almost seems perfectly content with how we are. She's very much into Motherhood which i love but at times i feel like she forgot all about us. It's been like this for 3 years. I'll give her hugs, i'll give her kisses, i'll rub her feet at night while we're watching TV, I'll try to be affectionate but she doesn't give much of that to me anymore. At times i've tried to bring it up and she will get quiet and deny that it's her fault that I could just ask....But, Is it mutual? Does she even want to? Why should I have to initiate it all the time? Part of me thinks she's just not as into me as she once was, God, this sounds so similar to someone else's case we all know about, minus kids. Even the same ages when we met, though we're in our late 40s now... (I'm the "young" one. Was always going for hte "older" gals in my late 20s... Figured they'd be more interested in a relationship... Our's has been sexless for a lot longer, FOR YEARS !!! (like a decade maybe) Yup. There are many like us in this situation. Things are improving on my end, though. Am not as "timid" and a "gentleman" like I used to be with women. I'm starting to make moves and she'd better "come along" when I make my moves.... Edited February 20, 2012 by Floridaman Link to post Share on other sites
soserious1 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I think a lot of relationships become sexless over time because one or both partners has let life get in the way. Then you've got a situation where you're having all sorts of awkward talks, the thought of having sex seems too complicated. Add in any resentments carried by the partners & you've got a problem that will just get bigger & bigger. A lot of sex experts recommend that for people stuck in this situation "just doing it" regardless if you want to or not is the only sure fire cure to get the sexual aspect of a marriage back on track again. Sort of get the body involved & the mind will soon follow. I spent a good 2-3 years living an almost celibate marital life,( strained, unsatisfactory couplings 3-4 times a year that left me feeling unwanted & undesirable) the last year of our marriage we had had ZERO sexual intimacy. While my wording might have been a bit more compassionate than some that has been used here, I do wish that I'd set a boundary much sooner, we begin having sex again starting now or we make an appointment with either a marital counselor or a divorce lawyer. What destroyed me in the end wasn't the fact that he no longer found me sexually attractive but rather the years of groveling, turning myself inside out trying to please him, trying to fix a problem that he in the end really didn't wish to fix. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author InBloom Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 Hey All, i've been away, thank you all for the responses and advice... UPDATE: We had sex and she initiated it. About a day after posting, out of the blue, she said we should have a "date night" and the next night we did. Put toddler down to bedtime, We had a nice little dinner, listened to records like we used to, a nice bottle of wine and you what happened next.. It totally threw me, and since, she's been a lot more affectionate and loving. I didn't even have to talk to her about anything. Best believe i've changed my thinking since and want to make sure that she knows that she is desired by me. A lot of you mentioned and i agree that everyday things you get caught up in can change a relationship, you become different. We went from young lovebirds having sex 2-3 times a night to once or twice a year. But the "I love yous" were always there and the common respect. just the passion and romance took a backseat to hectic work schedules and a baby i guess. That and our problem with good solid communication. I've learned she wants romance. She wants it to feel romantic not just a quickie. I want to plan more "dates" which we totally, totally need. In the last 2 years we've out of the house together without baby i think maybe twice. I also have made an effort now to get into better shape. I want to make sure I look great to her as well. I'm not overweight but yeah, I could stand to workout a little. Link to post Share on other sites
JazzyFox Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 great news! happy to hear it! just for the record, being romantic can mean so many things ... for me, when "hubby" takes charge of me+house+chores and allows me to relax with some tea and my favorite tv show ... it automatically builds that "lovin feelin" but it could also be a foot rub. he always gets a good return on his investment 2 Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Inbloom, this is a great update. I'm happy to hear that you and your wife reconnected, and have plans to grow closer. One question: What took you so long? Why did you let so much time go by before dealing with it head on? And even then your wife initiated the change! Be more proactive. Rock the boat! Link to post Share on other sites
Author InBloom Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 One question: What took you so long? Why did you let so much time go by before dealing with it head on? And even then your wife initiated the change! Be more proactive. Rock the boat! aw, ya know, just simple getting caught up in the busy routine, working, focusing on baby, not wanting to "rock the boat" as you say. It's truly silly. Yeah, my Wife initiated! It just showed me she does care, It influenced me to keep things fun and romantic and put more effort into keeping things fun and romantic. I'd hate to talk about it with her now and ruin anything. Things between us feel like they are getting better in that area. I promise myself though that I won't wait so long if it ever happens again. Link to post Share on other sites
The Blue Knight Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 jeeze... your solution sounds like what my mom used to do to get me to like eating peas. Everey time we had them, she'd put some on my plate and tell me i had to eat them, as if i did eat them enough, eventually i'd learn to like them. Guess what...I still hate peas, and looking at them reminds me of how much I used to dislike my mom forcing me to eat them, which made me hate them even more. now go and eat your peas:laugh: A username change is in order - frozenpeas Link to post Share on other sites
frozensprouts Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 A username change is in order - frozenpeas :laugh::laugh:don't like brussels sprouts either:laugh::laugh::sick::sick: Link to post Share on other sites
The Blue Knight Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 :laugh::laugh:don't like brussels sprouts either:laugh::laugh::sick::sick: You're a complicated woman Link to post Share on other sites
Floridaman Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 ***** bumped to prevent thread locking ******* Link to post Share on other sites
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