Boundary setting question

[Chi townD]

Soooo....don't tell your therapist you're doing it. Remember what I said about giving warnings?

 

When you give the information to the OMW tell her you are very sorry to be the one to bring this to her attention, but make yourself available to her anytime she needs to talk and leave your cell number with the packet.

 

Now, she might get mad at you, or she might not. I've seen where they hate the BH for ruining their life only to come back and apologize after having some time to cool off and then they realize that it wasn't your fault. That you didn't do this and you are hurting too. So, if she loses a gasket, don't take it personal, her life got turned upside down and you were in firing range.

 

DO NOT TELL YOUR WW THAT YOU INFORMED THE OMW, she'll find out soon enough. Then, refer back to my earlier post.

[Ninja'sHusband]

Yup, I plan to try to give her as many options as I can. I'll tell her her husband has done something terrible, and hand her the packet. Or maybe I'll have note that says that...God I just can't picture saying that to a woman I don't know on her doorstep The first page tells her there was an affair, but I don't go into any details or provide proof until the later pages (I have pretty definitive proof...and lots of it)

 

But I do plan to tell my therapist, it's not like she's going to warn anyone..well should could reach out to my wife I guess...but I'm guessing that would probably be frowned upon in her profession. I don't predict that happening. I want to hear her comments, it's still my choice, and if she talks me out of it, then she talks me out of it.

 

I should mention that they have two kids, so I feel pretty guilty about that if this splits up their family. But I do agree with the point that *everyone* is making that the OMW has a right to know and that she might even want to get checked out physically (I haven't done this myself...)

Edited February 17, 2012 by Ninja'sHusband

[Kidd]

Yup, I plan to try to give her as many options as I can. I'll tell her her husband has done something terrible, and hand her the packet. Or maybe I'll have note that says that...God I just can't picture saying that to a woman I don't know on her doorstep The first page tells her there was an affair, but I don't go into any details or provide proof until the later pages (I have pretty definitive proof...and lots of it)

 

But I do plan to tell my therapist, it's not like she's going to warn anyone..well should could reach out to my wife I guess...but I'm guessing that would probably be frowned upon in her profession. I don't predict that happening. I want to hear her comments, it's still my choice, and if she talks me out of it, then she talks me out of it.

 

I should mention that they have two kids, so I feel pretty guilty about that if this splits up their family. But I do agree with the point that *everyone* is making that the OMW has a right to know and that she might even want to get checked out physically (I haven't done this myself...)

 

Not sure why you're giving her a packet. I told the OMW face to face and was just sure to bring evidence. It is common for the OM to paint you as a crazy person before you get a chance to expose. Still, your choice on how to do it. I'm glad you decided to do so. It took me a lot longer and that caused me a lot more pain.

 

As for your W, you will see one of two reactions. 1) she completely flips out as described above. This would tell you that her affair has continued and you have managed to topple her house of cards or at minimum that she values protecting the OM more than helping you and the OMW heal from the betrayal. 2) she somewhat quietly accepts that this was one of the consequences of her actions.

 

Personally, I don't think you need to rush the other decisions (other than NC/quitting the dojo) until you see the result of the exposure. Work on deciding about moving out at the next juncture. Unless she is continuing the affair, there's no real need for either of you to move out. I still see hope for reconciliation here (but that doesn't mean she gets to avoid the consequences of her actions). You are driving the bus now; she's not making the decisions about what you do or what you need to heal. And I agree completely with the other poster that says you will be more attractive this way (although I'm not sure that's a healthy motivation - there's nothing wrong with you; your wife is broken).

 

That said, quit worrying about money. Is that really the right foundation for making any of these decisions?

 

Good luck. What a ride, huh? Keep posting. Drifter is right that you are grtting a solid education from quite a few veterans. The other site you're on is also good. Bet they're saying the same thing.

[imagine]

Dump marriage councilor- they are no good while wife and OM are in contact.

 

Your wife has not apologized or established any protection for the marriage. I would be affronted if this continued. The marriage can still be saved but you need to continue reading Dr Harley regarding PLan A and Plan B.

[Ninja'sHusband]

Dump marriage councilor- they are no good while wife and OM are in contact.

 

Your wife has not apologized or established any protection for the marriage. I would be affronted if this continued. The marriage can still be saved but you need to continue reading Dr Harley regarding PLan A and Plan B.

Ha! Just got his book Surviving an Affair in the mail last night. Read a bunch of it. I've read HNHN and LB already.

[Chi townD]

Okay...so, did you drop off the packet with the OMW yet?

[KathyM]

She would love it if I got involved in the sport...I just have no interest and I think I would resent having to go. I haven't talked about it much here but we have been working on the "why" factor a lot and how to prevent us from getting to this point again. This part of the process has also been very difficult for me as well because I feel like she's in crisis management mode, not really doing anything sustaining. She would disagree with me on that, and I do credit her with make a lot of moves to heal us and to assure that it won't happen again. I just can't handle her going to that dojo anymore, and that's where we are at an impass.

 

Thanks guys for responding so quickly, it's amazing to hear from so many people. One more question, what kind of time frame should I give? My counselor suggested March 1st. I'm much more impatient...I'm so sick of limbo and feeling powerless to know if this marriage is going to continue. I want to heal or move on...not get stuck in limbo land. She's leaving with my daughter today to be with her sister (about 6 hours drive from my house) My daughter is on "winter break", meaning she has thurs and fri off from school. My wife wants a break from all the discussions and heartache. I asked to come as well and that we could all use a break but she refused agree to my coming along. So now I'm considering taking all kinds of actions during the 4 days that I will be alone. I could leave work today or tomorrow and contact the OMW..I could write her parents and tell them, I could move out while they are gone...it's so expensive though...I dunno.

You have to decide for yourself if the infidelity is something you think you can eventually move past and forgive, and if you have it in you to work on rebuilding trust. You have some soul searching to do, so maybe it's a good thing that your wife is giving you some space to sort out your feelings. If you do decide to stay and rebuild, I would suggest insisting that your wife move to a different organization to practice her hobby where that guy will not be present. Also, you should be going with her to her events. Maybe you don't have an interest in that hobby, but you need to show an interest in her and what is important in her life. You have disassociated yourself with this aspect of her (her hobby) which is an important part of her life, and that is why she felt drawn to someone who is willing to share that interest with her. You need to be more involved with your wife's life and what is important to her. Be supportive of her hobbies and her by going to those events (the big ones, not necessarily the practices), so you can show interest in what is important to her. (For an example from my own life, I used to play in an orchestra. If my husband had never showed an interest in my talent, never went to my concerts, never showed support for what was important to me, I would start feeling distanced from him--like something that was very important to me, which I spent a lot of time on, was of no interest to him, and that was a big piece of my life that I couldn't share with him). I suggest that, if you do decide to reconcile, you do not take away the hobby she loves, or she will resent you for it, and it will negatively affect your marriage. Make sure you ask her about her hobby and show an interest often enough. And make sure you are there at the big events to show her your support and interest in what is important to her. She became interested in that other guy because they had a hobby that they shared which you showed no interest in. You need to show an interest in that, since it's so important to her. That doesn't mean you take up the hobby yourself. It means you go to the important events with her to show support. You ask her about the hobby often, and be a part of her life that she can show her enthusiasm for the hobby with. Other men will have less of an appeal for her if she is getting her needs to share her hobby met by you.

[Ninja'sHusband]

You have to decide for yourself if the infidelity is something you think you can eventually move past and forgive, and if you have it in you to work on rebuilding trust. You have some soul searching to do, so maybe it's a good thing that your wife is giving you some space to sort out your feelings. If you do decide to stay and rebuild, I would suggest insisting that your wife move to a different organization to practice her hobby where that guy will not be present. Also, you should be going with her to her events. Maybe you don't have an interest in that hobby, but you need to show an interest in her and what is important in her life. You have disassociated yourself with this aspect of her (her hobby) which is an important part of her life, and that is why she felt drawn to someone who is willing to share that interest with her. You need to be more involved with your wife's life and what is important to her. Be supportive of her hobbies and her by going to those events (the big ones, not necessarily the practices), so you can show interest in what is important to her. (For an example from my own life, I used to play in an orchestra. If my husband had never showed an interest in my talent, never went to my concerts, never showed support for what was important to me, I would start feeling distanced from him--like something that was very important to me, which I spent a lot of time on, was of no interest to him, and that was a big piece of my life that I couldn't share with him). I suggest that, if you do decide to reconcile, you do not take away the hobby she loves, or she will resent you for it, and it will negatively affect your marriage. Make sure you ask her about her hobby and show an interest often enough. And make sure you are there at the big events to show her your support and interest in what is important to her. She became interested in that other guy because they had a hobby that they shared which you showed no interest in. You need to show an interest in that, since it's so important to her. That doesn't mean you take up the hobby yourself. It means you go to the important events with her to show support. You ask her about the hobby often, and be a part of her life that she can show her enthusiasm for the hobby with. Other men will have less of an appeal for her if she is getting her needs to share her hobby met by you.

You make some good points, her problem is this sport is not a very common one and there aren't a lot of dojos. The one she is going to usually cleans up at national competitions. I just did a search for our area and couldn't even find another one that is close to us... As for the events, I do go to demos and such (which are very few) but mostly the events are special training seminars where outsiders don't usually watch. Or they are tournaments out of town, sometimes lasting days, again it would be really strange to be at an event like that as an outsider. I totally see your point though and appreciate it. I am a musician myself and part of her initial attraction to me(17 years ago!) was I was a guitarist in a local rock band. She went to all the shows, cheered me on, took pictures, etc, and I really appreciated that. I wouldn't ever expect her to go to a training camp, clinic, or rehearsal though, and she never has. So yeah it's a hard problem that might break us. My hope is we can find something to start as a family from scratch, maybe fencing. She's only been doing her particular thing for the last 5 years or so...not 37 like someone on the other forum. I've been writing music for 22 years, and I am in the middle of one of the longest breaks I've ever taken from that, just to fix this relationship.

That said, quit worrying about money. Is that really the right foundation for making any of these decisions?

I agree, I'm just having trouble working out the implementation\logistics\details, not giving up on my decision over it.

 

 

 

Also I've had my counseling session where I shared some of the forum posts. My counselor agrees I am justified, she just warns me that my W doesn't seem to be willing to do whatever it takes and that I will have to be ready to leave if I make this call. She saying that if my goal is to save the marriage, that there is a chance that this might end it. She agrees that I am justified and she couldn't handle my situation either.

As for the OMW, she wanted to be really clear that I wasn't going for revenge. I think she is a bit worried it may only cause harm; I'm worried about this too. The OMW and OM seem happy together...but wth is he doing what he did for if he is so content? I talked with him, heard my wife's reports, and read his conversations with my wife on this subject. My wife also said she was content at first...total BS, there were underlying reasons. I'm still pretty sure I'm going to do it today...soon...but feel a little shaky about affecting their 2 kids lives. They are teens, according to my wife, the OM would at least like to wait for a couple years so they are out of the house before he comes clean. My counselor said he's never going to tell, I agree.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Ninja'sHusband

[KathyM]

You make some good points' date=' her problem is this sport is not a very common one and there aren't a lot of dojos. The one she is going to usually cleans up at national competitions. I just did a search for our area and couldn't even find another one that is close to us... As for the events, I do go to demos and such (which are very few) but mostly the events are special training seminars where outsiders don't usually watch. Or they are tournaments out of town, sometimes lasting days, again it would be really strange to be at an event like that as an outsider. I totally see your point though and appreciate it. I am a musician myself and part of her initial attraction to me(17 years ago!) was I was a guitarist in a local rock band. She went to all the shows, cheered me on, took pictures, etc, and I really appreciated that. I wouldn't ever expect her to go to a training camp, clinic, or rehearsal though, and she never has.[/quote']

For the things that you CAN go to, then do it. It will mean a lot to her, and will help you to reconnect with her. I don't know what to tell you as far as her being in the same organization with the OM. If there is no other place for her to practice her sport, then you're kind of stuck with having to trust her while in the presence of this OM. Pretty hard thing to do. You'll need lots of reassurance from her that she is committed to be faithful. I don't think I could get past the betrayal, but some here on this board have been able to. You really can't force her to give up her hobby that means so much to her, though. That will only erode your marriage in a different way. I do know a woman whose husband cheated on her and he has to occasionally see this OW through his work. They were able to reconcile because the husband was extremely remorseful for betraying this woman, and continually assured her that he would never jeopardize their relationship again. Perhaps if you got that level of remorse and assurance from your wife, and continued to get it, it would do a lot to help to rebuild the trust. In any case, you have some thinking to do, about whether you can get past this.

[Owl]

No reason that YOU would have to leave, NH. If your wife decides it's over...SHE can be the one to leave the house. She doesn't have to take the kids either...they should stay in the marital home with you.

 

I seriously think you need to get another counselor. I don't believe this one has much of a clue.

[Chi townD]

I'm still pretty sure I'm going to do it today...soon...but feel a little shaky about affecting their 2 kids lives. They are teens' date=' according to my wife, the OM would at least like to wait for a couple years so they are out of the house before he comes clean. My counselor said he's never going to tell, I agree.[/quote']

 

 

You didn't do anything to affect their lives. It was your WW and OM. THEY did this, not you, not those kids and not the OMW. IT'S ON THEM!! according to your wife, the OM wants to wait until the kids leave the house to come clean? What the hell does that translate to? Admit the affair then so....he can start openly dating YOUR WIFE....or make the move to take her away from you completely? Sorry, OM doesn't get to make the rules to fit what he thinks would be most comfortable for him and your WW. He doesn't get to have his cake and eat it too while his wife remains clueless on what a douchebag she's married to. She has the RIGHT to know what's going on in her marriage. She has the RIGHT to make an informed decision to decide what she wants with her marriage given all the information that she should have. If HE (noticied the he not you) didn't want to hurt his kids and his family, then he shouldn't have gotten involved with a married woman. Plain and simple.

[Ninja'sHusband]

Thx Kathy, yeah it's just a rough situation, and I do see my wife's point of view and don't always necessarily vilify her for it...but it's not a situation I want to be in. That's why I hope for a tough change and heal...but might not happen.

 

As for telling the OMW...I should leave right now or I won't be able to do it until next week...but I'm having serious second thoughts. People responding to my posts were unanimous that I should tell, which pushed me strongly in that direction. But most professionals seem to go the other way. Can any one respond to this article?

http://ezinearticles.com/?Should-I-Tell-the-Spouse-of-the-Person-My-Husband-Had-an-Affair-With?---This-Advice-May-Surprise-You&id=1931927

 

I read other polls where people ask the same question and the answers seem much more split than they were when I asked, especially when there are kids involved. Some say stay out, some say tell, many that say tell speak of vengeance, which I don't agree with.

[Chi townD]

She saying that if my goal is to save the marriage, that there is a chance that this might end it. She agrees that I am justified and she couldn't handle my situation either.

 

We've all been telling you that she WILL get EXTREMELY angry with you. You have to remember that affairs are like roaches. They love the dark, but once you throw on a light switch they scatter. Once you bring the affair to light, chances are the douchebag is going to bolt.

 

if your wife wants to end the marriage because you let the TRUTH come out, then there was no marriage to save anyways. You may stand a chance of losing her if you expose, and you may stand a chance of losing her if you don't. What if the OM DOES wait until the kids are out of the house so he can leave his wife without having the kids see the mess HE caused and not have to worry about coughing up child support? Decides to get an apartment so your wife and him can be together? That's a possibility.... You have a chance of throwing a monkey wrench in that plan before it even gets off the ground!

[Ninja'sHusband]

There's this article too (same author I think)

http://ezinearticles.com/?Telling-the-Mistresss-Husband---Should-You?&id=2031697

 

They somewhat echo my counselor's previous words, I should focus on my own M. The counter is that I need NC...but this article seems to say telling may not help.

[Owl]

I can find an article and a "professional" to back up any argument on the internet that I'd like to look for.

 

Read those books that you already purchased. SAA, HNHN...the Harley's are strong advocates of exposure as a means to end an affair. Right there is another 'professional opinion' for you.

 

I'll tell you from long time posting experience here and on other sites...telling the OMW will probably do you more good than harm. Yes, your wife may well be upset/angry/hurt that you did so.

 

BUT...it gets you another ally to ensure that the affair remains ended. And ending the affair is the biggest key to saving your marriage possible.

 

ANY action you take to end the affair risks angering your wife. That's a given. She's ashamed of what she's done, and additionally if she is still doing it, she's going to be ticked off at anything you do to prevent it from continuing it.

 

His wife deserves the knowledge and choice on what to do with her own marriage. She deserves to know that they're still in the same dojo/art with each other as well.

 

Your wife needs to suck it up and recognize this as an outcome of THEIR CHOICE TO HAVE AN AFFAIR.

 

Up to you. Not much more I can say.

[Madman81]

Chiming in late...

 

It's probably reasonable for her to continue to go to her dojo. However, you should insist that she only do so on days that the OM isn't there. If he shows up at one of her classes, she must leave. Period, end of sentence.

 

Travelling to international competitions should only be acceptable where he isn't present. If he's going as well, she shouldn't go. Ideally, you should go with her to these.

 

She may see these conditions as too restrictive. But she did the crime, and must now do the time. It really comes down to a question of which is more important to her: her martial arts, or her marriage to you.

 

If she won't agree to these conditions, I think you have your answer.

[Owl]

Question...is your counselor a MARRIAGE counselor, or an INDIVIDUAL THERAPIST?

 

MC's focus on fixing the marriage.

 

IC's focus on fixing the person...almost always without care/regard for the marriage.

 

You might want to keep that in mind...your counselor isn't interested in your marriage. She may well be giving you information that is directly detrimental to any reconciliation effort you may make.

 

Your counselor is recommending NC with who? Your wife? OMW? WHY does she recommend this?

[Ninja'sHusband]

Question...is your counselor a MARRIAGE counselor, or an INDIVIDUAL THERAPIST?

 

MC's focus on fixing the marriage.

 

IC's focus on fixing the person...almost always without care/regard for the marriage.

 

You might want to keep that in mind...your counselor isn't interested in your marriage. She may well be giving you information that is directly detrimental to any reconciliation effort you may make.

 

She's...uhhh...kinda both. She does a lot of marriage counseling but also does individuals.

 

Your counselor is recommending NC with who? Your wife? OMW? WHY does she recommend this?

 

 

No I think you misread me, " The counter is that I need NC...but this article seems to say telling may not help." was my thought to counter the article I read and my therapist. W NC with the OM ^^

[Ninja'sHusband]

Oh and my therapist is kinda both I guess...she does a lot of marriage counseling anyway, but also does individuals. She's a family counselor is probably a better description.

[Chi townD]

Katie Lersch is an author and a blogger and even on her site, she states that she is no expert. So, her opinion is no different than ours.

 

Question is, if the OMW knew that your wife was having an affair and you knew nothing about it, wouldn't you what to know the truth?

[Heather2]

she is using the dogo's as her hunting grounds..some people go to bars..ect..she is playing you ..dont use your child as a reason to stay you will ruin her life..you are not in your right mind to provide a stable loving setting for your child if your ninja wife is torturing you and your chasing her down keeping tabs.....Leave ninjaloser in the shadows and take care of yourself and your child..

[Ninja'sHusband]

Alright from Harely's site:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]If your unfaithful spouse is unwilling to end an affair the right way, I know of a way to help speed up its demise: Expose it. Your own family should know: Your parents, your siblings, and even your children. The family of your spouses lover should also know, especially the lover's spouse. The pastor of your church should be informed as well. Exposure of an affair is like opening a moldy closet to the light of day. Affairs do well when they're conducted in secret, but when they're in full view for all to see, they appear as they are -- incredibly foolish and thoughtless.

I guess I didn't think it applied to me because it sounded like only if the affair was ongoing (which I'm sure it is not)

 

But the key is what he says earlier, it must be stopped *the right way*, meaning no contact. Ugh, I hate flip flopping like this in my mind. It's exhausting. I should go jump in my car like everyone is saying. Ok 10, 9 8 642321

[/FONT]

[2sunny]

The more options you ALLOW her - the more likely she's not going to quit her affair.

 

Give her ONE option - take it or leave it!

 

She stays in the M and does anything and everything in HER power to repair the damage she caused - or divorce!

 

That's the option!

 

As long as she continues to have her "hobby" as a part of her life - she keeps inviting the possibility of her OM to have contact. So her "hobby" needs to stop today IF she intends to continue with the M!

 

Exposé away! To all involved! SHE participated in what SHE created! SHE should own how SHE participated and honor what she did!

 

If she hadn't DONE it - there would be nothing to tell - but she did do it - and now there is something to tell - that's HERS... And IT now affects you, your M, your family and friends! In a VERY big negative way - her ACTIONS affected (still does) others.

 

There is NO honor in how she has participated. She isn't the woman you THOUGHT she could be (honorable). UNLESS she changes it, you are continuing to live with someone who doesn't show any idea of living the honorable life.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

My wife too is very involved in MA too and goes 4-6X/wk. Fortunately I have no worries or issues (and right now she is sidelined). I have not read all the posts and not 100% sure about telling the OMW. What would do is tell the sensei. One or the other must leave, that much is true.

 

My wife witnessed this at her dojo, where two married couples (with kids) were carrying on. She is good friends with the woman and the OM was a sensei. My wife was completely oblivious. Btw the OW left and the sensei stayed.

 

Simply this can not go on or be accepted at the Dojo and the head should know and do something.

 

Tough spot and tough decisions. You do not know the OMW, and the affair you claim is over. What you should worry about is that there are plenty (too much chance) of interaction.

 

Sad at the end of the day it is her decision as to what she does and the OM.

 

Of ourse if you do catch them again you expose. Right now you tell your wife that ou and her are visiting the sensei and discussing this.

 

And no you shouldn't join or take it up to keep an eye on your wife.

[Owl]

I guess I didn't think it applied to me because it sounded like only if the affair was ongoing (which I'm sure it is not)

 

But the key is what he says earlier, it must be stopped *the right way*, meaning no contact. Ugh, I hate flip flopping like this in my mind. It's exhausting. I should go jump in my car like everyone is saying. Ok 10, 9 8 642321

 

The PHYSICAL affair may not still be ongoing (hard to prove or disprove at this point, when she's away from the house so much at the same time he is for classes)....but....if she's got any kind of contact with him, the EMOTIONAL affair may well be continuing as well.

 

The affair ENDS when NC is in place. Right now...NC between her and him is NOT in place if she's still participating in recreational events where he is in attendance.

 

I'm not going to spend any further effort convincing you to do anything. This is YOUR marriage...it's up to you to do what YOU FEEL is the best thing for you to do.

 

I've given my reasons and suggestions.

 

Now it's up to you to do whatever it is you think is best, armed with that knowledge.