Boundary setting question

[2sunny]

I'm reminded - that whatever I spend time and energy focusing on - it tends to grow that bigger/better!

 

Since so much time and focused energy goes to her "hobby" and that includes her OM - it's safe to say that HER MAIN FOCUS isn't repairing the damage she has caused... IF it was her main and ONLY focus - she wouldn't be away this weekend!

 

Now that info has been given to the other mans wife - I wonder if she will be in touch with the OM over her weekend away. IF she's angry with you telling - its safe to conclude that this OM contacted her to say that his wife has been informed.

 

Will be interesting if no contact is intact throughout this weekend...

[turnera]

I should mention that they have two kids' date=' so I feel pretty guilty about that if this splits up their family. But I do agree with the point that *everyone* is making that the OMW has a right to know and that she might even want to get checked out physically (I haven't done this myself...)[/quote']So...you feel guilty that your WIFE cheated with this MAN, and you feel like YOU telling would split up their family?

 

Do I have this right?

 

Uh....didn't your WIFE split up their family?

[turnera]

I've been doing this for 10 years. The one thing I've learned is this: a cheater will never become a good mother/father/spouse unless he embraces total humility. That means telling the important people how he/she screwed up, admitting it, and asking for forgiveness.

 

Has your spouse done this?

[2sunny]

So...you feel guilty that your WIFE cheated with this MAN, and you feel like YOU telling would split up their family?

 

Do I have this right?

 

Uh....didn't your WIFE split up their family?

 

This IS the crux of his disconnect - he's not holding his wife accountable for HER actions...

 

OP - its not you. Unless you allowed this man to have sex with YOU - you didn't DO this - your wife is to blame.

 

Let HER also be accountable for FIXING it. SHE is the one who should be doing all the work to get the M to a great place.

 

But how can SHE... When she away from you on this long weekend? It's VERY telling. Isn't it? Especially if actions show more than empty words.

[Ninja'sHusband]

I've been doing this for 10 years. The one thing I've learned is this: a cheater will never become a good mother/father/spouse unless he embraces total humility. That means telling the important people how he/she screwed up, admitting it, and asking for forgiveness.

 

Has your spouse done this?

 

Ok I'll bite, yes she has. People seem to be awfully worried about me. I'll try to paint a better picture of the positive side of my WW.

 

Positive points:

1. She told me about the affair initially, even if she lied about the scope of it. And yes it was because she got pregnant...still, she told me of her own accord. That was really really hard for her.

 

2. She initiated counseling, found the counselor (via a neighbor's recommendation), and setup sessions.

 

3. She has apologized for the lies and the affair multiple times. Not bad apologies, very good ones. She even studied and got counseling on how to do a better job of this. They were heartfelt, expressed her shame, acknowledged and legitimized my pain, etc. Check out the book "Hold Me Tight" if you haven't read it. The section on forgiveness is great (covers apologies) Her apologies meant a lot to me considering this has been a flaw in her in general, she has a hard time apologizing, so to hear these showed growth.

 

3. She explored herself to figure out why the affair happened, and to let me know. Initially she said it wasn't my fault and there was nothing wrong. Nice to hear, and probably needs to be said especially at the beginning, but probably is never true. There's always reasons...so she began to dig and to find them. We spent 3 months going through old issues, many I never knew about, it's been hellaciously hard, but very necessary for me to feel like this kind of thing won't happen again. I need to know where we stand in our marriage.

 

4. She began exploring the reasons why she lies and to try to understand it. She is afraid of my reactions. she grew up in a house with a lot of avoidance of conflict. Any expression of anger on my part scares her badly. I grew up with a crazy screaming mother..though I tend to think of myself as a reaction against that, being calm. She sees me as explosive. Whatever, it's her POV and I need to know it right or wrong.

 

5. She calls me as soon as class is done if she goes( including the other sport she does) She does not go out with her friends afterward, at all. Since D-Day she has consistently come home MUCH earlier.

 

6. Pretty much everything I've asked for, like her turning towards me with affection when I need it, has been done. Even when it was hard for her. Another example, after her miscarriage she was extremely scared of unprotected sex. I had issues with using protection because she hadn't made the OM do it for the one encounter I knew of at the time, I didn't want to be limited in a way he wasn't. She gave on this point even though it scared her. Since then I've found out about the entire affair...I haven't been receptive anymore.

 

7. She has skipped a LOT of classes. It was hard at first but recently she's barely been to class at all.

 

8. She works out a schedule with the OM and shows me the text messages. I came with her the first time, and once when we decided to see how it was with both of them there. They have NEVER been both at the dojo at the same time without me being there since I found out about the affair (of course I could be wrong)

 

9. Not doing general points...but I want to point out that she is an excellent mother. Amazing actually.

 

This next thing isn't really a positive...but just a point for certain someone who can't seem to let go of the fact that my wife is out of town with my daughter at my sister in law's house.... She went there for a break. She's exhausted. She actually was physically ill from this whole thing for a while. I talk to my daughter and wife every night. I can hear my sister in law in the background. My sister in law knows about the affair and is for NC with the OM. She was the first person to tell me that! They are 6 hours away. I work at the same company as the OM, I can actually see if he is active at his desk because of the IM software chained throughout the company. She's not seeing the OM or even trying to. I'm SUPER sure of this. So SHUT UP ABOUT IT :D:D

 

People here seem to think my wife is hell bent on going to class specifically to see the OM. I really believe that neither of them *intends* to continue the affair. Her claim that it is the only dojo worth anything is legit. She is truly passionate about this art. Her sensei asked her to compete in Japan. I really think she just wants to train. The problem is there is a risk of a regression if she is close to the OM. She will not be happy alternating classes, or skipping events...and I will not be happy playing jailor. F-that. It's gonna be really hard for her to quit, not because of the OM, because she loves the sport. I understand that...I just can't stay in the marriage while I'm home worried 1-2x every week of my life. It feels like the affair is ongoing...and for all I know...it could start up again. I also don't like how much time it sucks away from me. She went to 3 conferences in a month the month the affair started. Talk about distance killing a relationship...and closeness starting a new one. yeahhh, no more of that.

 

Anyway...that's way more than I think I should post here..I should just delete it...cause I still really don't have any more questions. I'm really just trying to stop the thread jacking with unsolicited advice on things I didn't ask about. YOU DON'T HAVE THE FULL STORY AND NEVER WILL.

 

The people who gave me the most helpful advice have already stopped posting, they said what they could and left (Thanks to Kidd and OWL specifically)

 

If you asked my wife she would definitely say I've held her accountable. She feels spied on, yelled at, threatened, cold shouldered, scared her husband is going to commit suicide, scared her daughter is slipping in school because of home problems, physically ill, sleep deprived from so much discussing and arguing, denied from training, distanced from her sister (when I told her about the A...obviously this weekend things are healing between them), and now she may lose her husband in 2 weeks.

 

I am sticking to my guns, I'm setting a timeframe like someone here suggested. It doesn't mean she's getting away scot free, heck no. How many of you have kids? My wife is an excellent mother, it sickens me to see our family ripped apart. I want this to work. I don't care how evil my W sounds to you. I've got a lot invested in this. Don't get me wrong, I'm willing to walk, I've figured out what I can't handle...but if it can work, I'm gonna make it work. There's reasons why she lied. She's working on that, I am too. Read "Hold Me Tight", awesome book.

 

Oh and yes I realize my W's A started this. I was just expressing my remorse for being the messenger to the OMW. Maybe she would have never found out and everything would have been ok...then I came playing God and delivered the info. That's what I worry about.

 

And it's true that for every marriage it takes 2 to fix it. My wife has reasons, no the affair is not my fault...but there were factors leading up. I need to know about those so we can have a healthy marriage. I'm making changes big time on my part. She is too. Hopefully we can get through this, we may not. It may be that I come back and go, "yep, she put her sport above our marriage", but I'll be damned if there's gonna be another affair. And it happens, yeah I'm damned, and so is the marriage and you guys can have your moment of glory because you seem hellbent on the destruction of my family.

[bosunmate]

Good luck Ninja husband, i hope everything works out...

[2sunny]

No one seems helll bent on destruction of your M.

 

You asked about setting boundaries. Since you seem happy with the results/outcome - that's all that matters.

 

Best wishes.

[Steadfast]

Hopefully we can get through this' date=' we may not. It may be that I come back and go, "yep, she put her sport above our marriage", but I'll be damned if there's gonna be another affair. And it happens, yeah I'm damned, and so is the marriage and you guys can have your moment of glory because you seem hellbent on the destruction of my family.[/quote']

 

You're getting angry at the wrong people OP. You came here looking for feedback and you got it. Many of us have advised hundreds of people (and some of us add more than that outside of this forum) and we're heard it all before. Every situation is not the same, but human nature is consistent.

 

Few to none of the responders here enjoy what is happening to you. No one that I've read is hellbent on the destruction of anything, except being a pushover. You may not like it, but the odds of saving marriage relationships greatly increase when a swift, sudden rejection is applied by the betrayed. What usually happens is just the opposite, followed by extended periods of limbo, worry, wondering, and the eventual divorce.

 

It isn't easy. If it was, the divorce rate would be considerably lower.

 

Fact: No cheater is a good parent. The first law of good parenting is to place the spouse in a position of respect and security. You wife placed a noose around your children's father and flung him over a ledge. The only thing that's amazing about your wife is her ability to snow you under.

[sanctun]

I'm sorry man,dont know what to tell you other than good luck and hopefully counseeling opens youre eyes for you to make the right decisions.

[2sunny]

I do agree - a good parent would never cheat... Because part of honoring the good parent role is honor and respecting the respective spouse and parent.

 

Nothing good can be described about her parenting when she risked it all for sex/intimacy with another man - even to the point of pregnancy.

 

I do feel sad for how much you wish to keep your eyes closed to her betrayal... She was pregnant for Gods sake!

 

But worse than that YOU haven't been tested for std's - that alone shows how much you intend to live in ignoring what real possibilities are here and on the line.

 

Get tested.

 

And the fact still remain - yes she's taking a break his weekend - good! But it would have been better for the MARRIAGE if she had wanted you along!

 

You give her a break... Check yourself - she STILL holds way too much power in your marriage. That's why things still look completely out of balance.

 

I would have thrown her OUT - so she had some severe and swift consequences - making her uncomfortable enough to NEVER consider corresponding wi that OM again!

 

She texts him! Her intentions on her schedule! For goodness sake - she should NEVER text him again- or ever see him again!

 

Yet you are happy to "support her" in this backwards structure...

 

You have some assessments to consider... I hope you will.

[Ninja'sHusband]

You're getting angry at the wrong people OP. You came here looking for feedback and you got it. Many of us have advised hundreds of people (and some of us add more than that outside of this forum) and we're heard it all before. Every situation is not the same, but human nature is consistent.

 

Few to none of the responders here enjoy what is happening to you. No one that I've read is hellbent on the destruction of anything, except being a pushover. You may not like it, but the odds of saving marriage relationships greatly increase when a swift, sudden rejection is applied by the betrayed. What usually happens is just the opposite, followed by extended periods of limbo, worry, wondering, and the eventual divorce.

 

It isn't easy. If it was, the divorce rate would be considerably lower.

 

Fact: No cheater is a good parent. The first law of good parenting is to place the spouse in a position of respect and security. You wife placed a noose around your children's father and flung him over a ledge. The only thing that's amazing about your wife is her ability to snow you under.

Yes, and like I said earlier, I don't consider 2 weeks to much time at all in the larger scheme. Harley suggests 6 friggin months! I don't think I'm being that easy at all.

I agree on your point about being a parent, but it doesn't discount her good qualities. You don't know my W, you don't know all the great things she's done. I don't feel the need to list them here. Even if we split, she'll continue those things. Neither of us wants the other to disappear from our daughter's life. I think guilt for the A is the worst there right now. She feels incredibly guilty and sorry for how this is affecting our daughter. Guilty enough to save the marriage? I dunno But yeah so I agree, that is her greatest flaw as a parent.

[Ninja'sHusband]

I do agree - a good parent would never cheat... Because part of honoring the good parent role is honor and respecting the respective spouse and parent.

 

Nothing good can be described about her parenting when she risked it all for sex/intimacy with another man - even to the point of pregnancy.

 

I do feel sad for how much you wish to keep your eyes closed to her betrayal... She was pregnant for Gods sake!

 

But worse than that YOU haven't been tested for std's - that alone shows how much you intend to live in ignoring what real possibilities are here and on the line.

 

Get tested.

 

And the fact still remain - yes she's taking a break his weekend - good! But it would have been better for the MARRIAGE if she had wanted you along!

 

You give her a break... Check yourself - she STILL holds way too much power in your marriage. That's why things still look completely out of balance.

 

I would have thrown her OUT - so she had some severe and swift consequences - making her uncomfortable enough to NEVER consider corresponding wi that OM again!

 

She texts him! Her intentions on her schedule! For goodness sake - she should NEVER text him again- or ever see him again!

 

Yet you are happy to "support her" in this backwards structure...

 

You have some assessments to consider... I hope you will.

Yup, I wanted to go, that's my complaint too.

I value her as a mother too much to throw her out, she has nowhere to go where she can come back to be with our daughter. It's confusing. I work..I'd have to hired a nanny. yuck. YOu really don't sound like you are a parent.

 

Yes she texted him, at my request, to work things out. The is past tense, before I knew the full story. These were extremely monitored texts, me sitting next to her. OM doesn't know I'm there. Actually on one occasion I did the texting.

[Ninja'sHusband]

Actually this whole thing is a flaw on my plan. I still haven't worked out what I'm gonna do if we split... I can't figure out a proper coparent scenario. I was going to rent an apartment....but dang they are so expensive around here I dunno I need to figure that out on my own probably. I plan to do a lot of thinking about that subject this weekend.

[2sunny]

Yep - I am a parent. And I'm a parent who NEVER ever consider cheating. There's no way anyone can convince me that cheating is good for a marriage... Or for parenting for that matter.

 

You can justify her "good qualities" all you want - but where we're those good qualities when she plotted and planned having her OM inside of her body - a place that you still go to...

 

It's hard to imagine her good qualities when she isn't the woman you thought she COULD be - she's just not all that... Yet you defend her - no wonder she felt so entitled to cheat. She's stilling that pedestal - ands needs some humility by being bumped down a few notches.

[2sunny]

Actually this whole thing is a flaw on my plan. I still haven't worked out what I'm gonna do if we split... I can't figure out a proper coparent scenario. I was going to rent an apartment....but dang they are so expensive around here I dunno I need to figure that out on my own probably. I plan to do a lot of thinking about that subject this weekend.

 

Best left for HER to have the consequence of moving...since her actions created the mess.

 

And it's more easily affordable if she works full time. ;-)

[Ninja'sHusband]

Yep - I am a parent. And I'm a parent who NEVER ever consider cheating. There's no way anyone can convince me that cheating is good for a marriage... Or for parenting for that matter.

 

You can justify her "good qualities" all you want - but where we're those good qualities when she plotted and planned having her OM inside of her body - a place that you still go to...

 

It's hard to imagine her good qualities when she isn't the woman you thought she COULD be - she's just not all that... Yet you defend her - no wonder she felt so entitled to cheat. She's stilling that pedestal - ands needs some humility by being bumped down a few notches.

So are you a BS then? What's your experience? Have you survived an affair? You can't just completely alienate your spouse and expect things to workout. That will only drive them away...maybe that's what you want.

[2sunny]

Has she completely earned your trust back? IF she hasn't - SHE has work to do... And YOU can't do it for her.

[Ninja'sHusband]

Has she completely earned your trust back? IF she hasn't - SHE has work to do... And YOU can't do it for her.

 

No, though she is making some progress. The week of January 25th was a massive setback. I've been telling her that she has to do it, she's finally coming around slowly =\

 

She doesn't trust me not to explode in anger, that's the pattern we're stuck in.

 

That's good that you have never considered an affair. Only time it's come to mind for me is in this mess as a stupid act of vengeance...but not acting on it. Noone to offend with anyway ^^

 

Are you a BS?

[2sunny]

I am a BS. Cheating occurred at the 10 year mark. I did forgive - my one boundary was IF I ever found him cheating again - we would D without a conversation.

 

When it happened at the 20 year mark - that's what I did.

 

I Knew I DESERVED a faithful man - and that wasn't him.

 

He too, was a great Dad - still parents well - just had that sense of entitlement, ya know? Ego involved - he also THOUGHT I would forgive him again... He thought wrong!

 

I had a boundary... I also has self respect. You can't have self respect while at the same time allowing someone to disrespect you. It just doesn't work.

 

No one should have to give up their self respect in order to be loved.

 

Don't think I'm being hard on you - im just here giving you what's real - my truth.

 

I hope in some way I can help you. But I can tell you - justifying her bad behavior by pointing out her good qualities doesn't fly. The good can't outweigh the level of bad that she's done. It's hers to own - don't sugar coat it for her. The more pain she CAN feel from what she's done - the more likely she won't do it again. Pain is always a good motivator.

 

I know it's hard - but you don't want to lose the lesson by reducing her pain.

[2sunny]

No, though she is making some progress. The week of January 25th was a massive setback. I've been telling her that she has to do it, she's finally coming around slowly =\

 

She doesn't trust me not to explode in anger, that's the pattern we're stuck in.

 

That's good that you have never considered an affair. Only time it's come to mind for me is in this mess as a stupid act of vengeance...but not acting on it. Noone to offend with anyway ^^

 

Are you a BS?

 

Can YOU work on communicating effectively without raising your voice?

 

You will be heard more effectively if you deliver a message without creating anguish while delivering it.

 

Nothing good comes from someone yelling at me - in fact, I tend to NOT listen.

 

Practice... Get mad, yes... But deliver the words without yelling.

 

Mine sounds like this (my soft but firm voice) I'm not digging what you are doing - and I'm not happy about your actions right now - so I think it's best if you leave now.

 

That is what I have delivered to my kids when I am fuming mad. No raised voice - just a clear and solid message - when I really wanted to say "GET THE F OUT"! Ahahaha

[2sunny]

I don't post with any agenda about what position a person here may be in - I tend to try to encourage posters to look at truth, evidence and respecting themselves and others.

 

I tend to stay away from judgement and just look at info given, written words convey a huge message! Your writing style tends to carry the burden of fixing this FOR your wife... It doesn't work that way.

[Ninja'sHusband]

Yup that's one of the things I'm working on. I want her to be able to handle some expression of anger though. She claims I'm out of control if I even have tension in my voice. And in the 2 weeks following learning about all the lies, the most painful weeks of my life...it's the most difficult to not show anger.

 

I'm not justifying anything by bringing up her good qualities. I'm trying to show you she's not pure evil, she's human with human failings. People had gotten the idea that there was nothing worth fighting for. There's something worth fighting for.

 

I'm really sorry you had to go through that 2x. I can see where you are coming from more now. Thanks for sharing that.

[2sunny]

I understand.but as much as you are fighting for it is she?

 

Is she providing you COMPLETE honesty, restoring YOUR peace of mind? Giving ALL her love to YOU in her actions and her words? Making the M work HER TOP priority?

 

IF she's so intent on her hobby - and THAT hobby involves a world with her OM - the hobby is OUT - IF she plans to restore the M.no two ways about that!

 

She CAn get a new hobby...or a new husband. Let her choose.

 

I hope she let's go of the hobby and EVERYTHING to do with the OM - I really hope she does. You sound like a pretty nice husband. But you deserve better than a wife who keeps the hobby that keeps her connected to her world with her OM.

 

She could have still been involved with her hobby if SHE hadn't ruined it by cheating...but she messed that one up - and there ARE consequences to bad behavior - so SHE should be offering to quit! But she's not, and that itself shows she's not as remorseful as you think she is.

[2sunny]

Bottom line is - honor self... You can't expect her to honor you if you aren't willing to honor yourself.

[Ninja'sHusband]

I understand.but as much as you are fighting for it is she?

 

Is she providing you COMPLETE honesty, restoring YOUR peace of mind? Giving ALL her love to YOU in her actions and her words? Making the M work HER TOP priority?

 

IF she's so intent on her hobby - and THAT hobby involves a world with her OM - the hobby is OUT - IF she plans to restore the M.no two ways about that!

 

She CAn get a new hobby...or a new husband. Let her choose.

 

I hope she let's go of the hobby and EVERYTHING to do with the OM - I really hope she does. You sound like a pretty nice husband. But you deserve better than a wife who keeps the hobby that keeps her connected to her world with her OM.

 

She could have still been involved with her hobby if SHE hadn't ruined it by cheating...but she messed that one up - and there ARE consequences to bad behavior - so SHE should be offering to quit! But she's not, and that itself shows she's not as remorseful as you think she is.

 

No I don't think she is, and it saddens and angers me...and makes me question whether I want to stay or not. But I don't believe in perfect magical love. It sucks ass, but I want this family to work. If I didn't have a 9 yr old daughter, yeah it would have been over already. You're right, I'm pretty pissed at being put in this situation and am on the verge of leaving because of it. The thought of me leaving regardless at this point has come up for me, before I came to this forum. Even my therapist today said that my W didn't seem like she was willing to bend over backwards and do what it takes to fix things... So yeah this is last call. If we survive my wife will have a lot of proving to do. We both do. If she were here in this discussion she'd be bringing up lots more of my transgressions, many of which she's right about. Takes 2 to break it, 2 to fix it. People don't cheat without a reason, from what I've learned no-one expects themselves to cheat. It's not some inborn character flaw. People cheat because they had unfulfilled needs..what's wrong is when they aren't honest with their spouse and tell them what's wrong (this is dealbreaker #2 for me...my W is making progress on this...slowlllyyy) So the spouse never gets to address it...and boom an affair happens, blindsides the BS cause they thought everything was roses. My part of this cycle is anger expression against someone who can't handle anger at all. My wife's problem is being victimized by even small amounts of anger and lying to avoid conflict.