2sunny Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 She's- On the fence on the fence... Cake eater cake eater... What's attractive about a wife that isn't expressing wanting you and ONLY YOU? You are right where you were several weeks ago - SHE is still calling all the shots - holds ALL the power - yet you are ALLOWING all of it. Your daughter would be fine! Start asking friends and family to help you... I can guarantee - when your W is so focused on herself or her MM - she's not thinking of what's best for your daughter! If she was - she wouldn't have had an A in the first place. So you are being delusional about how great your wife is - she just ruined your marriage and your daughters life! For Gods sake - open your eyes to what she is purposely doing! Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I don't push divorce unless the situation is hopeless. Also, when in doubt, do nothing. (making a final decision) In the meantime just focus on your own healing, your child and other things/people in your life. Your wife has to figure things out on her own - Whether she actually IS having a MLC, or fallen for the OM and wants to divorce so she can pursue him (affair or not) is out of your hands. If/when the time comes your wife shows you she's wanting to work on herself, try to salvage/save the marriage, and is genuinally remorseful for her part in tearing apart your marriage and family unit, THEN consider putting the D/separation on hold. She has to be worthy of that second chance. Right now though she isn't there.. I DO hope she wakes up and you two can sort through this, become a close family again, not only for the sake of your child but because of your vows and in the past you two obviously loved eachother to get married and start a family. Link to post Share on other sites
drifter777 Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 It's become really clear to me over the last week that my W is in the middle of a massive mid life crisis. Been reading about that and putting together things she's told me. I think the affair was her way of experimenting and boosting her deflated ego. She didn't date that much in HS and college. She was only sexually active with one other guy before me. Your sincere efforts to understand your wife's motivation for cheating are typical of the denial phase. I know you believe that you are doing the right thing and behaving as an adult, and you certainly are doing that. Your behaving like an adult who is terrified of facing the world on your own. At this time you are willing to accept whatever she did just to end the pain and attempt to put your world back together again. Her lies have been mostly trickle truth, which I'm also learning is common from reading this forum. Always the case, and you will probably continue to uncover more incidents of lying that will crush you. It's been really clear to me that when the A was discovered, both her and the OM were calling it quits. They weren't head over heals in love, I know this, I've read their private conversations. Maybe, maybe not. You are making this assumption based on incomplete information that may prove to be untrue. She hasn't texted him in a while...though she did get a POBox that she thinks I don't know about... She had locked off her computer from me, but she had an emergency andhad to give me the password, haven't seen anything suspicious there. PO Box? Locked computer that she now knows you can access - you don't suppose she has access to another computer? Just drawing attention to these statements. You can't seriously believe she doesn't have ample opportunity to be in contact with him, do you? These statements alone would be enough to cause suspicion in a relationship that has not experienced infidelity let alone your current situation. My goal is not to have my daughter's parents split. I know this feels so right, so noble, but take it from me, it is so wrong. You might want to change this to something like "my goal is that my daughter will grow up with a happy, confident father who loves and cherishes her instead of a bitter, angry father who hates her mother." I'm not saying you should divorce or reconcile but I am saying you need to stop focusing your emotional efforts on your wife and daughter and begin taking care of yourself. Toughing this out and hoping that time will heal this is a terrible mistake. I know this to be true. Now let the insults fly, tell me what a fool and pussy I am! Thank you! Very few of us want to insult you, most of us care about you, a complete stranger, because we've been there and are still working on our own recovery. Trying to help others can be therapeutic. The problem with most of us is that we see so many BS's making the same mistakes we made and, like a parent guiding a child, we want to help you avoid wasting time and creating a situation that will cause you even more pain. Try to keep this in perspective when reading our feedback. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ninja'sHusband Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) She's- On the fence on the fence... Cake eater cake eater... What's attractive about a wife that isn't expressing wanting you and ONLY YOU? You are right where you were several weeks ago - SHE is still calling all the shots - holds ALL the power - yet you are ALLOWING all of it. True, true, and true, whatever. My daughter is more important than a stupid power struggle or my ego. Your daughter would be fine! If I tried to kick my wife out, it would get REALLY nasty. I'm not kidding, super nasty. There would be no way to hide my daughter from that. I would have to go to court to get her out probably. Our neighbor's H has thrown his W out before...my W said things would have to get physical and there would be calls to the police if something like that ever happened to her (This was before I knew about the A) Even if it was peaceful I wouldn't do it, I don't want my daughter to have to go through her parents separating. Start asking friends and family to help you... I can guarantee - when your W is so focused on herself or her MM - she's not thinking of what's best for your daughter! If she was - she wouldn't have had an A in the first place. So you are being delusional about how great your wife is - she just ruined your marriage and your daughters life! For Gods sake - open your eyes to what she is purposely doing!Her parents know, my father knows, many of my friends know now. My W is completely screwed in the head right now. I can't fix her MLC for her. That's her thing. Yeah, she's focused on her. That's what you do in a MLC. She's becoming someone else, I have to see where she lands. Edited March 9, 2012 by Ninja'sHusband Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Stop calling it a MLC... She is a cheater and a woman who intentionally ruined the family! Call it what it is! She doesn't intend to think of you - so why make it easy for her to treat you AND your daughter with such disregard? She did this with intent! Tell your daughter the truth! Mom has been cheating with another man. She wasn't thinking of OUR best interest when she stays so focused on her other married man! Mom is also so involved that she has no conscience about breaking up our family and his family! Your daughter should know just what lack of character looks like - and that it's her Mother who exhibits those qualities! You can teach your daughter a lesson from this mess - how NOT to be like Mommy! But you probably won't - because you intend to shield your daughter from what IS real - she could benefit from understanding hat life isn't fair- and this IS what it looks like when it isn't fair! And that Dad is willing to be honest about the crap that Mom serves up! Protecting your cheating wife is as good as making it all ok! Stop protecting her! Speak up! Allow your daughter to understand what unacceptable behavior looks like! YOUR WIFE DID THIS - allow HER to suffer the consequences of her choices and behavior. You keep protecting her and that's not going to help you. Speak your truth - have a voice! Tell anyone who will listen - especially your daughter... She deserves to know what's real. Mom is a cheater. She knows something's wrong already - kids always know... She will appreciate knowing what it is. Link to post Share on other sites
BetheButterfly Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Pack her bags and lovingly let her go 'wife, I want you to be with OM, I wish you all the best' Let this OM suppot her financially lol, somehow I don't see it happening. She might actually have to manage on her own for a while. Move on with your life without her. If she comes crawling back then you can deal wit that when or if it happens. Oh tell this guys wife also!! I agree with this. It is very sad when a marriage commitment is broken, and yet it already was broken. If you let her go, maybe she will decide to go, or maybe she will have a change of heart and put her marriage with you as a priority over potentially seeing this man again. I very much admire martial arts and know that if she does not compete, she could still practice her martial arts and maybe even give lessons to kids or other women, instead of putting herself in places without you where she is in a vulnerably weak position to have affairs, you know? And I don't understand why in the world the counselor advises you not to tell the wife of the man who cheated on her. That is very sad advice, in my opinion, because it is preventing his wife from making informed choices. It is important that she know what her husband did, so she can make decisions accordingly for herself. You can tell her in a very considerate way that her husband cheated on her, and with this information, she can decide what is best for herself- to stay with a man who does not value his commitment he made with her, or to leave him. Without knowing this information, how can she make an informed decision? Keeping her in the dark about what he has done is not helping anyone but the cheater himself, to continue cheating. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 She seems like she's not sorry she cheated - she's only sorry she got caught. She's still hiding ALOT! When there's nothing to hide - people don't hide things. She mainly buying time to devise a firm plan that will benefit her further - hence the po box... Probably opened new bank acts etc. Keep your eyes open man! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ninja'sHusband Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 Drifter, in denial of what? My W had an A, lied about it, continued to lie, put her class over our marriage and family, is ready to D, is sucking money for her own benefit. Yeah, all of it's F-d up. Know what? I'll support her for the next year and a half while she gets her masters, whatever. If she still wants to kill the family after that, great. I've already grieved over the marriage and raged over her A. What will hurt is what it does to my daughter, and will be the ultimate blow that I will hate her for. There's no F-ing way I'm going to deal that blow to my daughter myself. I'm not in denial of anything, I know full well that this may end tragically, maybe already has. I've already grieved over my W. I'm just fine now. And 2Sunny, really? wow, just wow. That's not the kind of burden you lay on a sweet 9 yr old girl. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ninja'sHusband Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 I agree with this. It is very sad when a marriage commitment is broken, and yet it already was broken. If you let her go, maybe she will decide to go, or maybe she will have a change of heart and put her marriage with you as a priority over potentially seeing this man again. I very much admire martial arts and know that if she does not compete, she could still practice her martial arts and maybe even give lessons to kids or other women, instead of putting herself in places without you where she is in a vulnerably weak position to have affairs, you know? And I don't understand why in the world the counselor advises you not to tell the wife of the man who cheated on her. That is very sad advice, in my opinion, because it is preventing his wife from making informed choices. It is important that she know what her husband did, so she can make decisions accordingly for herself. You can tell her in a very considerate way that her husband cheated on her, and with this information, she can decide what is best for herself- to stay with a man who does not value his commitment he made with her, or to leave him. Without knowing this information, how can she make an informed decision? Keeping her in the dark about what he has done is not helping anyone but the cheater himself, to continue cheating. Just an FYI, I dropped off a packet to the OMW a couple weeks ago (in her hands). Haven't heard a peep out of her so far. Oh one thing I didn't say was that Steve Harley agreed with you guys that that was the right thing to do. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 She's STILL screwing you over - and YOU are still ALLOWING it ALL! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ninja'sHusband Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 She seems like she's not sorry she cheated - she's only sorry she got caught. She's still hiding ALOT! When there's nothing to hide - people don't hide things. She mainly buying time to devise a firm plan that will benefit her further - hence the po box... Probably opened new bank acts etc. Keep your eyes open man! Yes there's a bank account too. That's how I found out about the POBox. I got a confirmation letter in the mail from her bank confirming the address change. I hid the letter when i got it and looked up the address. The address is a UPS store near our house. I was actually the first to open a separate bank account (before I even started this thread) She knew about it cause I didn't hide it. Now, she's intent on D. Of course she did these things. Link to post Share on other sites
BetheButterfly Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Drifter, in denial of what? My W had an A, lied about it, continued to lie, put her class over our marriage and family, is ready to D, is sucking money for her own benefit. Yeah, all of it's F-d up. Know what? I'll support her for the next year and a half while she gets her masters, whatever. If she still wants to kill the family after that, great. I've already grieved over the marriage and raged over her A. What will hurt is what it does to my daughter, and will be the ultimate blow that I will hate her for. There's no F-ing way I'm going to deal that blow to my daughter myself. I'm not in denial of anything, I know full well that this may end tragically, maybe already has. I've already grieved over my W. I'm just fine now. And 2Sunny, really? wow, just wow. That's not the kind of burden you lay on a sweet 9 yr old girl. Sweet 9 year old girls become women someday. I know from experience. It is so important for her to learn how to have a good relationship with a man, and dads - how they act/react to their wives/girlfriends and how their mom acts/reacts to their husband/boyfriends, is a learning process to kids. I don't think it would be good for you to be mean to your wife no, but also, it is important that your child understand that being kind doesn't mean being a doormat. Sadly, so many women suffer on account of their husbands cheating or abusing them, and many times they have learned that from their parents' interactions with each other. Now, I am not saying that your wife is abusing you, but it is important to address her cheating. I don't think it is wrong of you to request her to not put herself in a vulnerable, weak position where she might have affairs again. I think that is good. I don't think that means that she has to give up martial arts, but if there's a way where you could come with her and encourage her and be with her when she is competing where there are other men, that would be awesome! However, she is going to have to want to make it work too. Marriages that are only one person wanting to make it work don't last long. So, I think it is great that you care for your daughter, but please remember that one of the ways to teach your daughter is by doing your part to make the marriage work and to stand up for yourself when you are being hurt. Just as you would not want your daughter to suffer what you are now suffering, so you need to teach her what to do to not be stuck in a situation where one can continually get hurt. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Yes there's a bank account too. That's how I found out about the POBox. I got a confirmation letter in the mail from her bank confirming the address change. I hid the letter when i got it and looked up the address. The address is a UPS store near our house. I was actually the first to open a separate bank account (before I even started this thread) She knew about it cause I didn't hide it. Now, she's intent on D. Of course she did these things. Sop giving her access to any money! If she wants money - she can get a job! When she gets hungry enough - shell work. In the meantime - make meals and eat with your daughter - be sure your daughter knows what a cheater Mommy is. That is the truth! Acting like she's a great Mom when she's plotting and planning behind your back (and your daughters back too) is a lie. A great Mom and wife doesn't plot and plan to kill the marriage. Do not support her in any way. Start making her miserable. She earned being miserable! The way you are participating now is supporting her bad behavior. Stop being her doormat. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Your fear is killing your chance at recognizing reality. Link to post Share on other sites
soserious1 Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) Judges take a dim view of parents who drag the children into the fray during a divorce. Sitting a nine year down and filling their ears with lurid tales about their other parent is totally inappropriate. What is appropriate? going to court, filing for sole custody & use of the marital home & engaging a mediator to attempt to come up with a shared parenting plan that allows the child full access to both parents. All the child needs to know for now is that mom & dad are separating but that she will be able to remain in her home, go to the same school & see both of them regularly & that she is NOT the cause of this. The child will grow up and form her own conclusions about both parents. NH, you know she's planning a divorce, she's got a po box, at the very least consult a good lawyer who can advise you on the best way to protect your child & your assets while you attempt to sort out your feelings and/or patch things up. Edited March 9, 2012 by soserious1 Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I don't suggest telling details... Just your truth. Mom has been spending time and energy planning her future with another man... And doing things with a man that she shouldn't be doing. Then tell your daughter that you both love her and that will never change. Any questions she has about Mom should be diverted directly to Mom to answer. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ninja'sHusband Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 Judges take a dim view of parents who drag the children into the fray during a divorce. Sitting a nine year down and filling their ears with lurid tales about their other parent is totally inappropriate. What is appropriate? going to court, filing for sole custody & use of the marital home & engaging a mediator to attempt to come up with a shared parenting plan that allows the child full access to both parents. NH, you know she's planning a divorce, she's got a po box, at the very least consult a good lawyer while you attempt to sort out your feelings. I do plan on at least this. I've already stretched out to a few, got a response from one that I may setup a session with. I've taken the hard line with my W already guys, I did what you said and thought I was ready for D if it backfired. Well I was wrong, I'm not ready to split the family up. She can be the one to do that evil act. I want my daughter to see two loving parents, not a war. Love is the example I want to set. I've had enough of this vicarious vengeance every one here seems to crave. I think if I post anymore, I may take it to a forum where WSs can post to. This is just soooo one sided =\ My W and I have put each other through enough hell...I'm not escalating it. Link to post Share on other sites
soserious1 Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) NH, a court order giving you sole custody & ordering your wife to vacate the marital home won't "get nasty" or involve anything "physical" the order generally gives them a bit of time to move & get their personal effects out of the house, if there is a concern about there being a scene or anybody getting "physical" the judge can order that the police accompany her to pick up her belongings at a mutually agreed upon time when your child is not present. The entire thing can be done very quietly & with dignity, if your wife decides to try to up the ante that would be on her & the judge would most likely issue a restraining order against her at that point. Edited March 9, 2012 by soserious1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Her threats a while back prove she had a plan long before you knew anything. When I was married - I never thought about what I would or wouldn't do if/when that situation ever presented itself. But then again - I never considered cheating. And I never intended to ever hurt anyone. I also never had anything to hide. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I do plan on at least this. I've already stretched out to a few, got a response from one that I may setup a session with. I've taken the hard line with my W already guys, I did what you said and thought I was ready for D if it backfired. Well I was wrong, I'm not ready to split the family up. She can be the one to do that evil act. I want my daughter to see two loving parents, not a war. Love is the example I want to set. I've had enough of this vicarious vengeance every one here seems to crave. I think if I post anymore, I may take it to a forum where WSs can post to. This is just soooo one sided =\ My W and I have put each other through enough hell...I'm not escalating it. YOU can display love and loving behavior to your daughter. You can't control what your wife offers... That is where you are delusional... She has already shown evidence that she isn't BEING loving. Not being loving to YOU or the marriage or the family. Call it what it is - when you are honest about her behavior - she will have to address what a mess she has created. You making it pretty for her in the meantime is hurting you AND your daughter. And you are losing time while she takes money and stashes it away and gets her tidy plan underway... All because you want to exhibit living behavior. Exhibit live and honesty to your daughter. Your wife ruined her privilege of decency from you a long time ago - over and over by inviting another man to enter her - that space that should have been saved for you. Why aren't YOU MAD? Start acting like you're going to look out for you and your daughter. Your wife that you THOUGHT you knew has been gone a LONG time. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 You are delusional about her being a good Mother. IF she was a good Mom - she wouldn't have had this affair in the first place. Even so - she did. Showing further evidence she's not considering her daughters feelings - she's ONLY thinking of herself. Link to post Share on other sites
Try Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I've had enough of this vicarious vengeance every one here seems to crave. I think if I post anymore' date=' I may take it to a forum where WSs can post to. This is just soooo one sided =\ My W and I have put each other through enough hell...I'm not escalating it.[/quote'] Do not shoot the messengers. Nothing you have done escalated anything that was not going to happen already. Although she will try to blame shift to say otherwise, it is not true. She told her parents that she was divorcing you before she told you. She even told them about the affair without telling you. We are nothing more than the bearers of bad news. Your wife is the maker of that news, not us and not you. Link to post Share on other sites
drifter777 Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Drifter, in denial of what? My W had an A, lied about it, continued to lie, put her class over our marriage and family, is ready to D, is sucking money for her own benefit. Yeah, all of it's F-d up. Know what? I'll support her for the next year and a half while she gets her masters, whatever. If she still wants to kill the family after that, great. I've already grieved over the marriage and raged over her A. What will hurt is what it does to my daughter, and will be the ultimate blow that I will hate her for. There's no F-ing way I'm going to deal that blow to my daughter myself. I'm not in denial of anything, I know full well that this may end tragically, maybe already has. I've already grieved over my W. I'm just fine now. In the context of dealing with infidelity, denial is not refusing to believe your wife had or is having an affair - for you that fact is not in question. What denial means at this point is that you are in survival mode and you are denying the extent to which her betrayal has affected your psyche. It means that you are living moment-to-moment doing everything you can to avoid the pain she has caused because you are terrified of facing life without her. It also means that you are responding pretty much like all BS's do, and there's probably nothing we can say that will help you right now. People don't seem to learn from the mistakes of others, they have to make the mistakes themselves. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 They also learn better and faster when there are consequences for their bad behavior. For now, your wife has suffered very few consequences - in fact, it looks like YOU are suffering from her actions more than she is - that's why it's still backwards. Wen you allow her the fallout and discomfort from her horrible actions by showing what's real and being honest... That is when she may start to realize she screwed up! But she won't - because you are intent on making things "comfortable" for her. As long as you keep doing this - she's not likely to get the idea that life's about to be turned upside down- and she certainly isn't going to show remorse or regret with the approach she's taking. No consequences for bad behavior - the bad behavior gets reinforced and just continues... Especially IF/when you take her back. Re read the180 It doesn't talk about trying to make things easy or pretty or comfortable for the cheating spouse. It talks about doing opposite. I don't see opposite action yet from your side. That is part of why she's still doing things "her way" Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ninja'sHusband Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 It means that you are living moment-to-moment doing everything you can to avoid the pain she has caused because you are terrified of facing life without her. I spent a week crying, unable to work after the ultimatum failed, the pain was unbelievable, the worst I've ever experienced. I faced it. I can live live without her now, what I am worried about is our daughter. Hell, right now I have no W. She doesn't act like my W. I've accepted that. That pain has come and gone. The pain I'm scared of is the pain of hurting my daughter. That's my real fear. I've partially dealt with that pain, that was part of the pain that week I spent away from work. The difference is we haven't actually told my daughter or moved apart yet. There'll inevitably be more pain for all of us there. If you are calling out my fear of that, then yeah, there's truth there. I'm not in denial of it though. It's real, it may happen and I'm afraid of it. Link to post Share on other sites
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