Boundary setting question

[ISurvived]

Well I hit my breaking point. I exposed to sensei and more dojo members just now.

 

Timetravel back about 18 hours:

 

We are trying to move to a new place soon and time is running out. She mentioned getting a nicer place and letting her parents help us out with the added expense. I calmly reminded her that her father said he would not support a relationship that was not improving. If she is going to deliberately put herself in places where OM will be, we will not improve. I put my foot down that we needed to move somewhere cheaper, not more expensive. She basically ignored any comments about quitting class, kept telling me out daughter is the most important thing.

 

Fun fact, my #1 anger trigger is *being ignored* Anyway I survived last night without getting crazy.

 

This morning though as I was about to leave I said, "If you haven't watched that video I sent you I'd appreciate it if you did." No response at all. So I go, "Do you plan on watching the video?" She basically started talking about priorities and her school. I told her our M is the #1 priority waaayyy above EVERYTHING else. If she wants to focus on our daughter she needs to fix our M first so we have a good environment for her. I need to not go insane and lose my job from inability to function at work. We talked for a while, I called her again from work to she if she had watched the video. She had..but she recognized it as the same stuff I keep telling her and didn't seem to care. She was really clear that she is MUCH happier now that she is in school yes, but she is still NOT quitting her MA. She seems to think that me being there is this perfect fix even though I keep telling her me or her being around the man she Fed for 4 months is NOT a good thing.

 

Anyway, her tone was so confident and final that I resolved to expose right then and there. I can't even handle the *thought* of OM coming back anymore. Add her confident calm rugsweeping and I just go into fits of rage. So F- it. I exposed. I CC'ed her and various other dojo people, and OM. I called her to tell her I exposed. She was actually calm. Who knows what sensei will do? Before she said it would "not be good". Now she thinks he probably won't do anything. Whatever. I made it clear this M is NOT going to work with her being around OM at all. She's going to call her parents, probably play an angry phone message I left...oops.... But she'll tell them the latest, maybe...who knows what distortions\critical omissions she'll put in? She's not decided on D right now. She's pretty dependent on me...I dunno. From here the ball is out of my court. What will sensei do? What will she do? Time will tell. I feel better for my part. phew....

 

Sorry Kidd...hehe that was all I could take I guess....I tried to be patient. I knew I had limits

 

Sorry it came to this NH. If nothing happens with sensei being informed, what is you next move?

 

She may be calm because she has already planned her next move. Is it possible that her parents would "take her in"?

[Ninja'sHusband]

Sorry it came to this NH. If nothing happens with sensei being informed, what is you next move?

 

She may be calm because she has already planned her next move. Is it possible that her parents would "take her in"?

 

She won't go to her parents house. They live thousands of miles away. She needs to stay here because of her masters and her dojo. They were already planning to come up here temporarily to help watch DD while she goes to school though.

 

If nothing comes of sensei knowing, we might just D. I just don't think I can handle this craziness anymore. Eventually I'll get fired, that won't be good for anyone. Better to D than get fired I think. I told her I hated that I was putting my own insecurities over our family...but I just can't take it anymore. I went on to say how disgusting it is that she puts MA over the family..but she continues to deny this. I don't get her logic at all. I can't even put it down in writing its so nonsensical. It's like memorizing the alphabet in a random order....

 

Oh I told her a me with the lawyer as well, in a txt message.

[ISurvived]

She won't go to her parents house. They live thousands of miles away. She needs to stay here because of her masters and her dojo. They were already planning to come up here temporarily to help watch DD while she goes to school though.

 

If nothing comes of sensei knowing, we might just D. I just don't think I can handle this craziness anymore. Eventually I'll get fired, that won't be good for anyone. Better to D than get fired I think. I told her I hated that I was putting my own insecurities over our family...but I just can't take it anymore. I went on to say how disgusting it is that she puts MA over the family..but she continues to deny this. I don't get her logic at all. I can't even put it down in writing its so nonsensical. It's like memorizing the alphabet in a random order....

 

Oh I told her a me with the lawyer as well, in a txt message.

 

OK. Didn't remember the fam lived so far away.

 

Sounds like she just doesn't care anymore. I know that is tough to hear, but this whole thing sucks.

 

Until she can see that you and DD are more important that MA, I don't see any forward movement. Amazing people can be so selfish isn't it. SMH.

[Owl]

She may have seen this coming, and has already done damage control at the dojo, warning the sensei and other class members about her "deranged husband" who "might come in telling lies about me just to get me to stop coming here".

 

That's why exposure should be sudden, swift, and complete in one swoop.

 

We'll see what the sensei says. I'm curious about what you sent...especially the tone and 'professionalism' I hope you displayed.

[Owl]

And I agree with Isurvived...until she prioritizes her family and her marriage about her "sport/hobby/art/whatever"...your marriage stands no chance of recovery.

 

That's where "consequences" come in. Pain motivates people to change, it opens eyes, and it gets folks to understand that there are repercussions to their actions. Of course I'm not talking about 'hurting' her...but letting her suffer some direct consequences for prioritizing her "art" over "her family".

 

Start scheduling MAJOR events for your daughter during her MA nights and events. Make it clear she's got the CHOICE over which is more important to her.

 

And let her make the choice.

[Ninja'sHusband]

She may have seen this coming, and has already done damage control at the dojo, warning the sensei and other class members about her "deranged husband" who "might come in telling lies about me just to get me to stop coming here".

 

That's why exposure should be sudden, swift, and complete in one swoop.

 

We'll see what the sensei says. I'm curious about what you sent...especially the tone and 'professionalism' I hope you displayed.

Yeah I wish I had done mass expose from the start. I had no idea it would come to this.

[The Blue Knight]

She won't go to her parents house. They live thousands of miles away. She needs to stay here because of her masters and her dojo. They were already planning to come up here temporarily to help watch DD while she goes to school though.

 

If nothing comes of sensei knowing, we might just D. I just don't think I can handle this craziness anymore. Eventually I'll get fired, that won't be good for anyone. Better to D than get fired I think. I told her I hated that I was putting my own insecurities over our family...but I just can't take it anymore. I went on to say how disgusting it is that she puts MA over the family..but she continues to deny this. I don't get her logic at all. I can't even put it down in writing its so nonsensical. It's like memorizing the alphabet in a random order....

 

Oh I told her a me with the lawyer as well, in a txt message.

She hasn't made sense going back to some of your original posts. Emotionally, she strikes me as immature or just someone who lives in a world of denial. Either option isn't good. I was married to someone like that previously.

 

I think you're right about putting your job first. In this economy you have too consider your employment. And it's important to put your daughter first right now (as you've pointed out) and Dad needs a job in order to do that. Your wife can say that she's all about putting your daughter first, but I think we know who she's putting first, and it's not your daughter.

 

If you've reached that point, it might be time to make a more drastic move. At this point, your wife is remorseless, has no intention of leaving the MA school that led to this, and she can't even promise she won't see the OM in the future. Those are three big strikes. Contrast that with Sandie's husband who is bending over backwards to save the marriage by doing everything in his power to make it up to his wife.

 

I'd back whatever decision you make. Make sure it's your time line.

[Ninja'sHusband]

Here's an edited version to protect privacy:

Dear XXX and XXX,

 

I have some tragic information to relate. I have deliberated for months on whether or not to send this email. I finally have decided that it is necessary; the integrity of 2 families and XXX depend on it. I regret to inform you that XXX XXXand my wife XXX XXX have betrayed the trust of XXX sensei, myself, XXXXXX, and both family's children by engaging in adulterous behavior for four months (June to early October) at:

 

1) the XXX dojo itself where XXX classes used to be held (using XXX's key),

 

2) at various XXX and XXX events while representing XXX (in dormitories, backs seats of cars, etc),

 

3) at a motel when their families believed they were training in XXX.

 

The unborn baby that was miscarried back in October could have been either XXX’s or my own child. We will never know.

 

I very much want to keep my family intact but cannot tolerate myself or my wife being in XXX's presence at all. Neither XXX nor XXX is willing to step down from XXX to prevent further contact. Ultimately, I know I can only control my own actions, but I believe XXX sensei has the right to know the truth about the level of betrayal and deceit disgracing his organization so he can do whatever he believes is the right thing given the circumstances. As proof, I have attached screenshots of a facebook conversation I discovered between XXX and XXX . I have more proof but suspect this will be sufficient. It was from conversations with XXX that I learned XXX had used his key to enter the dojo after class, so I lack written proof of this part.

 

I am so sorry for the controversy, hurt, and drama. I am sure XXX and XXX will be angry at me for exposing the truth but I believe it is a necessary step to prevent further injury to XXX, my family, and the XXX family. This revelation will surely create immediate pain, similar to when a cancer is discovered, but only with the knowledge of the disease can we work to cure it.

 

Thank you for reading and again I offer my apologies,

 

NH

Edited April 25, 2012 by Ninja'sHusband

[SomedayDig]

Clapping hands!!!

[BetrayedH]

Well I hit my breaking point. I exposed to sensei and more dojo members just now.

 

Timetravel back about 18 hours:

 

We are trying to move to a new place soon and time is running out. She mentioned getting a nicer place and letting her parents help us out with the added expense. I calmly reminded her that her father said he would not support a relationship that was not improving. If she is going to deliberately put herself in places where OM will be, we will not improve. I put my foot down that we needed to move somewhere cheaper, not more expensive. She basically ignored any comments about quitting class, kept telling me out daughter is the most important thing.

 

Fun fact, my #1 anger trigger is *being ignored* Anyway I survived last night without getting crazy.

 

This morning though as I was about to leave I said, "If you haven't watched that video I sent you I'd appreciate it if you did." No response at all. So I go, "Do you plan on watching the video?" She basically started talking about priorities and her school. I told her our M is the #1 priority waaayyy above EVERYTHING else. If she wants to focus on our daughter she needs to fix our M first so we have a good environment for her. I need to not go insane and lose my job from inability to function at work. We talked for a while, I called her again from work to she if she had watched the video. She had..but she recognized it as the same stuff I keep telling her and didn't seem to care. She was really clear that she is MUCH happier now that she is in school yes, but she is still NOT quitting her MA. She seems to think that me being there is this perfect fix even though I keep telling her me or her being around the man she Fed for 4 months is NOT a good thing.

 

Anyway, her tone was so confident and final that I resolved to expose right then and there. I can't even handle the *thought* of OM coming back anymore. Add her confident calm rugsweeping and I just go into fits of rage. So F- it. I exposed. I CC'ed her and various other dojo people, and OM. I called her to tell her I exposed. She was actually calm. Who knows what sensei will do? Before she said it would "not be good". Now she thinks he probably won't do anything. Whatever. I made it clear this M is NOT going to work with her being around OM at all. She's going to call her parents, probably play an angry phone message I left...oops.... But she'll tell them the latest, maybe...who knows what distortions\critical omissions she'll put in? She's not decided on D right now. She's pretty dependent on me...I dunno. From here the ball is out of my court. What will sensei do? What will she do? Time will tell. I feel better for my part. phew....

 

Sorry Kidd...hehe that was all I could take I guess....I tried to be patient. I knew I had limits

 

I'm not judging you at all, brother. I had my limits, too. Generally I don't believe in imposing artificial "consequences" on a person whom you love and with whom you are trying to reconcile. That's a long debate that I don't really feel like having with anyone. But when a WS pushes the edge of the envelope to the extent that your wife did (and mine), I don't think of exposure as an artificially imposed consequence anymore - it transforms into a natural consequence of your wife's actions. Continually backing someone into a corner should not result in a surprise when the person finally comes out fighting. I simply respected your choice not to come out fighting until you had had enough. You had had enough.

[Bellechica]

I predict her father will get her an apartment so she can finish her education and do her MA if the sensei allows her to stay. NH.....you've tried more than any person I have ever seen. I'm sorry it's going so horribly.

[Ninja'sHusband]

I predict her father will get her an apartment so she can finish her education and do her MA if the sensei allows her to stay. NH.....

Might happen. Who knows? Would probably be the best case for us if we D.

you've tried more than any person I have ever seen. I'm sorry it's going so horribly.

Thanks Belle

 

An interesting turn of events. My WW just tried to schedule a MC session. Took a crisis. So surprised... not....

 

I already had an IC scheduled for Monday morn, so probably we'll both go then.

[whichwayisup]

If I lived near you, I'd give you a hug, a hair tussel (something my brother always and STILL does to me, lol) and a high five too.

 

You got pushed past your limit after trying your best to stay calm, give your wife chance after chance after chance..And sadly she kept blowing it and in her own way by ignoring ALL your requests, she's sown you she just doesn't care. Infact, judging by her reaction and how she is calm it may be she's relieved that you finally are the one to pull the trigger.

 

Do keep up with IC, and of course your lawyer. Joint custody with the pretense that the OM is to be NO WHERE near your child and if your daughter is exposed to him then she loses custody. (OK, I am jumping way a head here, but it's just how my mind works)..

 

I feel better for my part

 

So glad you feel better. You took control of the situation and now your wife knows you're not putting up with her bullsh.it anymore. You stood up for yourself and did the right thing. The letter was good too.

 

Now, go kiss your daughter and just know that life is going to be better, reguardless of what your wife does or doesn't do, you have strength and that fear of the 'unknown' and fear of standing up to your wife, worrying about hurting her feelings, really doesnt' matter when she couldn't care less either way. I'm proud of you Ninja.

[whichwayisup]

An interesting turn of events. My WW just tried to schedule a MC session. Took a crisis. So surprised... not....

 

Don't do anything. Continue on focussing on you and NO MORE convincing her to do anything. If she wants to fight for your marriage and do counselling, sit back and let her make all the effort and jump through hoops.

 

*She is learning (just now) what her consquences are by not doing what you've been asking her to do for a long time now.* She may be reacting out of desparation, or maybe she is waking up. Time will tell, but I just ask you now to back off completely and let her come to you, let her make the effort. No more heavy discussions. You hold all the cards now and she has to see this.

[2sunny]

If I lived near you, I'd give you a hug, a hair tussel (something my brother always and STILL does to me, lol) and a high five too.

 

You got pushed past your limit after trying your best to stay calm, give your wife chance after chance after chance..And sadly she kept blowing it and in her own way by ignoring ALL your requests, she's sown you she just doesn't care. Infact, judging by her reaction and how she is calm it may be she's relieved that you finally are the one to pull the trigger.

 

Do keep up with IC, and of course your lawyer. Joint custody with the pretense that the OM is to be NO WHERE near your child and if your daughter is exposed to him then she loses custody. (OK, I am jumping way a head here, but it's just how my mind works)..

 

 

 

So glad you feel better. You took control of the situation and now your wife knows you're not putting up with her bullsh.it anymore. You stood up for yourself and did the right thing. The letter was good too.

 

Now, go kiss your daughter and just know that life is going to be better, reguardless of what your wife does or doesn't do, you have strength and that fear of the 'unknown' and fear of standing up to your wife, worrying about hurting her feelings, really doesnt' matter when she couldn't care less either way. I'm proud of you Ninja.

 

Ditto this! ^^^^

 

Holy cow I'm so proud of you doing something about this! That's what a boundary looks and feels like! Feels like taking some of your power back! Feels like you are starting to honor yourself and what is right based on principles and integrity!

 

NOW you're actually DOING something instead of nothing!

 

Woo Hoo!!!

 

I could just kiss you!

 

I know it's hard with this change...but IF you go along with her way from this point forward - you're just agreeing NOT to recover anything since she doesn't intend to change a thing.

 

Her calm reaction is creepy. It's almost like a person who's just relieved you actually didn't find out the real truth. Makes me wonder what else she hiding.

 

Either way, stay on path so you honor yourself until she starts REALLY changing.

 

If she makes an appt for MC let her go alone...at least at first. You go to your IC to stay focused on staying strong.

 

I'm proud of you being willing to change, have a boundary and for taking action.

 

Keep an eye on honoring yourself.

[2sunny]

Don't do anything. Continue on focussing on you and NO MORE convincing her to do anything. If she wants to fight for your marriage and do counselling, sit back and let her make all the effort and jump through hoops.

 

*She is learning (just now) what her consquences are by not doing what you've been asking her to do for a long time now.* She may be reacting out of desparation, or maybe she is waking up. Time will tell, but I just ask you now to back off completely and let her come to you, let her make the effort. No more heavy discussions. You hold all the cards now and she has to see this.

 

Let her show evidence of being invested in the MC - shell need to go on her own for months before a counselor needs you to participate.

 

If she goes. I hope she does! I hope she changes.

 

She's got a ton of work to do...her sense of enticement and lack of empathy could take years to break through.

 

Her lack of remorse shows how broken she is to the core.

 

The work a hard hitting counselor needs to do is for her to take action on.

 

 

IF she goes and IF she starts changing and showing willingness to bend over backwards for you - THATS when you might want to consider participating.

 

In the meantime - get busy living! Stay busy and occupied - especially with artistic outlets and with your daughter! Consider a few weekends away to gain clarity and stability.

 

Change brings hope! I'm finally getting a bit hopeful for you...on a small level but that's better than none!

 

You can do this... I believe in you! Never settle! You're a nice man, you deserve a kind and loving woman who will honor you... Whether that's ypurW or not - never settle for anything short of others honoring you as well!

 

We train people how to treat us - it's now time for her to learn how to honor you by sticking to this path. If she won't, then she's not the right gal to love you.

[2sunny]

Remember that her pain is a big motivator.

 

Your nature is inclined to remove or to ease her pain - don't do that!

 

The pain is her driving force to change, if she's gonna change at all - you must just wait and watch to see IF it motivates her to change herself. Minimizing her pain is only taking away any chance that she may start doing things differently, start taking action in the right direction.

 

Her changes must withstand long times - so don't cave and go back to giving in to her manipulations.

[Ninja'sHusband]

Get this: She just sent a NC letter to the OM and CCed me.

 

BUT in the letter she claims she will not quit her MA

 

ROFL. What was the point of that? Basically breaking NC in my mind, nothing else.

 

 

In the letter she also made complaints of me exposing to the dojo and continuously contacting OMW. lol. Pretty heartfelt and remorseful eh?

 

(I've had one short conversation with OMW btw besides the 1 or 2 sentences we exchanged the day I dropped off the packet)

 

 

Oh and I picked up "Not Just Friends" Probably a waste...but w/e. Good read so far, rings true.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Ninja'sHusband

[whichwayisup]

Get this: She just sent a NC letter to the OM and CCed me.

 

BUT in the letter she claims she will not quit her MA

 

ROFL. What was the point of that? Basically breaking NC in my mind, nothing else.

 

 

In the letter she also made complaints of me exposing to the dojo and continuously contacting OMW. lol. Pretty heartfelt and remorseful eh?

 

(I've had one short conversation with OMW btw besides the 1 or 2 sentences we exchanged the day I dropped off the packet)

 

What this means is, she's been in contact with him and NOW she is putting NC into play/place. Hello, this means that she was seeing or at best, talking to him. You sure she was at school?? I mean, think about it, how HAPPY you said she was with her 'new friends'? I don't know of ANYBODY as an adult who comes home beaming and talking about all the new friends they've made at school. To me that reeks of a big fat lie, to cover up what she was really doing. Kind of makes you wonder eh? Does me.

 

Hmm, she's still placing blame on you and everybody else, except HERSELF. Screams that she is selfish and sorry to say this? Narcissist. Yuck..She is showing N behaviour and is quite manipulative. And she doesn't plan on quitting dojo/MA. WTF.

 

This isn't good. At all. There's no heartfelt remorse, or shame in what she's done and still doing. Sad to say this but your wife is not thinking at all and makes me wonder if she has a problem inside her head that hasn't ever been diagnosed. Hense the Narcissism that is oozing out of her.

 

Please go to your own therapist and continue working on yourself, getting strong and you decide if she's worth fighting for. From what you've said tonight and how she's reacted - she's not worth fighting for.

[Bellechica]

NH,if she shows no remorse after all this then what do you do? I know I've been accused as being like your wife but I'm on LS because I regret my A and want to save my M.

Your wife when faced with the reality of losing you and your daughter has ONE choice in my mind, and it's her family, unless you've abused her. If her "fog" is so messed up to chose otherwise then it is on her......

[2sunny]

She has no room to complain about anything right now. Shows she's still resisting. Also evidence that she doesn't INTEND to quit her MA - and still willing to contact her OM.

 

All violations!

 

She said she was (supposedly) in NC - so why the need to contact? Oh yeh, just to warn him that a storm is brewing. She's protecting him by telling him.

 

So she broke her NC again!

 

What are you planning to do about her openly disrespecting your wishes again? On both counts (not quitting MA and by contacting him openly).

 

It's as if you are expected to approve just because she tells you. NO! That's encouraging her to continue contact and then passively show you after that she did what she shouldn't be DOING!

 

She's a piece of work!

 

Get mad!!!! You have every right to be flaming mad! Speak gently... But show your disapproval. Maybe show disapproval by having her out.

 

Either way, she's still not uncomfortable enough to earn your trust - she just smashed it to smithereens!

[turnera]

Yeah I wish I had done mass expose from the start. I had no idea it would come to this.

I wish we could create ONE thread that's just full of BH's saying this. Maybe it would make a difference to all the future WHs.

 

btw, we KNEW you would come to this place eventually. You all do. You just usually refuse to listen to us.

[2sunny]

I'd respond to her e mail by stating one thing:

 

"you are f-Ed up, and a woman who doesn't deserve my love and respect."

 

That's all I would say.

 

Leave it at that and see IF she starts begging! I doubt she will. She's too important to act any differently than her entitled self.

[turnera]

Ok, now YOU seem like you have all the answers. Ignore her. Refuse to talk to her. If she manages to talk to you say nothing but 'until you are ready to go NC with OM for forever, I have nothing to say to you. I am moving on. Let me know if you are ever willing to forego OM AND MA; If I'm still available, I may listen to you.'

[2sunny]

Get this: She just sent a NC letter to the OM and CCed me.

 

BUT in the letter she claims she will not quit her MA

 

ROFL. What was the point of that? Basically breaking NC in my mind, nothing else.

 

 

In the letter she also made complaints of me exposing to the dojo and continuously contacting OMW. lol. Pretty heartfelt and remorseful eh?

 

(I've had one short conversation with OMW btw besides the 1 or 2 sentences we exchanged the day I dropped off the packet)

 

 

Oh and I picked up "Not Just Friends" Probably a waste...but w/e. Good read so far, rings true.

 

She's just SO disrespectful it makes me almost throw up.