Boundary setting question

[2sunny]

Keep posting here. There are so many here that have experience and expertise in this area... But they can't help if you don't tell them what you may need.

 

Have you separated money yet? Or is she still accessing money at her leisure?

[whichwayisup]

Not good. I'm a complete wreck. The pain is unbearable. So devastated. Can't work... just a total mess. Can't believe my family is going to be ripped apart by this. Thx for asking

 

It is sad and I feel for what you're going through and all the changes that are going to happen. Changes and starting over again, something that you didn't ask for. It's not going to be easy, but what will help you get through this is support from family, friends, us (continue posting) and most of all? Your daughter. She loves you and you'll always be her daddy - No matter what!

 

Take things one day at a time..

[Steen719]

Not good. I'm a complete wreck. The pain is unbearable. So devastated. Can't work... just a total mess. Can't believe my family is going to be ripped apart by this. Thx for asking

 

I know that pain and it does seem unbearable. I just kept thinking that I wanted just a little relief and it seemed like some days, it was just hard to breathe. I am not that far out, but finally, I feel some better. Trust it when people tell you that you will get past it. Talk to your friends and family. Your good friends want to be there for you, just like you would be for them. Really, she is gone. She even lied after you knew about the 4 month part (and continued to be in contact with OM) and my guess is that she still will lie. I can't explain it...but it happens. My X and I have been divorced since Oct. and he still is telling me that he is not dating (already has a serious girlfriend). What??? LOL, he is crazy.

 

Concentrate on the good things if you can. You have a daughter and as whichway says, she loves you and she needs you now, so as hard as it is, try to count blessings when you can. {{{HUGS}}} to you. You will feel better, honest!

[The Blue Knight]

But take a step back and time for what is referred to as the 180. Be a man and don't beg. Start looking out for yourself and ask her if she is 100% sure about what she said.

 

I have been discussing exposure on another site and when you must. Here I definitely think details don't have to be discussed, but telling people what happened is perfectly fair. You have been way too accepting for too long and protecting her.

 

As said the sensei should have been told and same with some family if you needed their help (ie. talk to her). If you separate, definitely why protect her. You both are to blame and were not perfect, but only she had an affair inside a normal sexual marriage.

 

Details are not necessary, outside saying she got too wrapped up in MA and had an affair with another married man and she can't let it go and work to save the marriage.

 

Having had an ex who did something similar to me 20 years ago, I can relate to the emotional roller-coaster you're experiencing right now NH. It sucks and you think that you may be able to find a way to make your way through the emotional maze created by the affair and still save the marriage by "becoming the right husband", and it turns out to be very tough to preserve the marriage in the end after that level of betrayal.

 

I can also relate to the martial arts connection having been a practitioner for many years. And as important as it is to me, if I had hurt my current wife by becoming involved with another MA student and my wife upon finding out told me that in order for us to make our marriage work I had to give up my MA practice at that dojo, I don't think I'd have much choice if I wanted to keep my marriage alive, and I still had any affection for my wife. Frankly, that's not an unrealistic request and I think most of the people here who have responded to your posting agree. Your wife violated the marriage contract. She can't possibly expect you to allow her to continue seeing the OM at this point on any level.

 

I'm not a person who believes in spitefulness or "paybacks" but I do believe the wife of the man involved with your wife had every right to know what was going on. If for no other reason because she's a person and she needs to deal with her own husband's betrayal on some level. In that regard you did the right thing by telling her.

 

Pragmatic gave you some great advice here. Look out for yourself and your daughter and let your wife fend for herself at this point. Your wife appears to have chosen what is really important to her. Let her sleep in the bed she's made for herself.

[2sunny]

NH -

 

Since she's now made her choice = her choices should have severe and quick consequences!

 

Is she out? She should be! She's had all week to move (remember SHE made the choice - she should move)

 

Is she looking for work? She should be - she's gonna need to start supporting herself!

 

Have you cut off her accessing money? You should! That will force her to get to work faster! No more credit cards for her!

 

These are consequences for HER CHOICE!

 

It's not you - it's her = she chose this path!

 

Lay down those firm boundaries now - its critical for her to see the consequences that her actions and choices bring to her!

[seibert253]

NH -

 

Since she's now made her choice = her choices should have severe and quick consequences!

 

Is she out? She should be! She's had all week to move (remember SHE made the choice - she should move)

 

Is she looking for work? She should be - she's gonna need to start supporting herself!

 

Have you cut off her accessing money? You should! That will force her to get to work faster! No more credit cards for her!

 

These are consequences for HER CHOICE!

 

It's not you - it's her = she chose this path!

 

Lay down those firm boundaries now - its critical for her to see the consequences that her actions and choices bring to her![/QUOT

 

^^^^^^^

This

[2sunny]

And get the D filed ASAP. See several attorneys if you need to in order to get one you connect with. Most will give a free consult for the first visit.

[Steadfast]

I've noticed you've been gone for a couple of days. For what it's worth, many of us have been to the dark place you're in now. Some of the best advice to remember now is the old Winston Churchill saying; "When you're going through hell...keep going". Take some solace in knowing this is just about as bad as it gets. There will be other trials. Take one at a time.

 

It will help to find one, or a group of trusted friends to share with and lean on right now. I'd advise against family; they are often very biased. Friends...good ones who understand your need, will keep you centered. Let them know in advance what's coming...what you'll need. If they aren't willing to make this commitment, find someone who is. Feel free to PM me or anyone here you trust. No shame to admit your present need. You'll have ample chances to return the favor and 'pay it forward' in the future.

 

Be a good father. Smile...even if you have to fake it. Pray for guidance and wisdom when you lay down for sleep. Find a food you can eat to sustain yourself. I became a master of the omelet...and many other foods I didn't eat when I was married. Establish a new routine. Rest to improve focus.

 

Keep reminding yourself that you didn't choose this. Remember that in life, trials can shape us into better, stronger people. You will come out of this stronger and wiser than before. You can and will be an inspiration.

[Kidd]

NH, sent you a PM. How about an update? Been hoping you're holding up. We know it sucks. Hope you come back for support.

[Chi townD]

I'm guessing the WW found out about Ninja contacting OMW and she came at him with guns blazing (WHICH IS A NORMAL RESPONSE NINJA!!!) She'll threaten you, tell you that the marriage is over, she WAS going to work on the marriage BUT since you did this.....This is all your fault....he didn't deserve this...blah...blah....

 

Need an update brother!!!!

[despicableME]

It seems his wife had a plan all along... she was just biding her time.

 

She was probably doing some damage control and rewriting her marriage history, so as not to come out looking like the bad guy.

 

She was in contact with OM throughout this whole ordeal.

 

The only one out of the loop was Ninja.

[2sunny]

She most likely stashed money away too - while buying time. Along with making sure her MA classes were paid up thru the end of the year.

[soserious1]

NH,

 

I was a betrayed spouse so let me start by offering you some empathy. This crap hurts & feels like it will last forever but trust me you will feel better.

 

Now for the practical stuff.

 

Your wife is a person of questionable moral character, she is also not equipped to fiscally provide for 50% of her child's needs. If I were in your shoes here's what I would do.

 

Start interviewing & hire a childcare provider or housekeeper ( this won't cost you more than alimony & child support would)

 

Get a GOOD lawyer- don't stint on this,you'll be living with the results of his/her work for a long time.

 

Speak with the lawyer about fiscal issues including canceling ALL credit cards that she has access to & how to handle any money in joint checkings or savings accounts.. follow the advice given carefully. The goal here is to follow the law (she will be entitled some marital assets) but to not leave her with access to enough funds to lawyer up on your dime.

 

 

Request temporary sole custody of the child & that you remain in the marital home to provide for stability for the child, you can also request a temp order for child support ( get that child support clock ticking right away as it will be you great bargaining power in the final settlement)

 

You are going to have to pay out the nose for alimony & child support

anyway, why not go for fill custody & allow your child to remain in her

home, attending the same school? Why should a 9 yr old's life get thrown in the crapper because her mother decided to betray her father?

 

Get custody, get control of the marital home, the housekeeper and your family will help you. Your wife can then attend her dojo & figure out what she's going to do to earn enough money to support herself & pay the child support order that's been assigned her by the court.

Edited March 6, 2012 by soserious1

[2sunny]

Is your wife working yet NH?

[Ninja'sHusband]

Recent thoughts:

 

It's become really clear to me over the last week that my W is in the middle of a massive mid life crisis. Been reading about that and putting together things she's told me. I think the affair was her way of experimenting and boosting her deflated ego. She didn't date that much in HS and college. She was only sexually active with one other guy before me. She says I was the first person to ever make her feel good about herself. She said never had any confidence before that. She thinks she could have done better if she had had the confidence. None of this excuses what she did of course, I'm just putting it in context of her MLC. The MLC is also about her career, motherhood etc. I think it makes more sense now that the A started at a time when we were trying to get pregnant. She felt a lot of pressure from me to have another baby. I worry about our daughter since she is the only grandchild on both sides. My daughter is going to be pretty lonely when we all get old and she has to take care of all these dying relatives. Anyway my W panicked I think at the thought of spending another X years rearing another child from infancy. She got told by a counselor she could go for her masters in education, so she dived into that head first along with an A. She was half consciously preparing to leave me, why not have an A on the way out? I don't think she thought that consciously, she couldn't even explain the A at first. Eventually she rationalized it as being because of problems with me. "I wouldn't have done it if our relationship was strong". Sure I get that, but now I think the real reason was her MLC and lack of self esteem. One of the things I learned in counseling was that she had a strong need for admiration from me (ala the Harley books)

 

The main advice I read about dealing with spouse in the middle of MLC is to leave them alone, let them work through it. The M might end but the best hope is to give them space to figure things out. I'm going mostly off the book "Divorce Remedy". The concepts of the "180" came from that book.

 

Ok back in time now:

 

I had a phone session with Steve Harley a while ago. He told me only she could fix the wound she had inflicted and that I couldn't do it for her. The more I tried to do her job the more I would drive her away. I told my father what happened, he said threats were not likely to end well (which it hadn't), that there was no such thing as "fair" or "rights" in M, and that most successful M's had a big scar somewhere. Then I called an old crush from HS who I know from facebook. She went through a similar breakup with her H of 18 years. He had been a jealous prick for 16 years according to her, cursing, breaking her stuff, making false accusations, etc. Somehow I missed it in the conversation, but I think she had an affair at the 16 year mark and they D'd at 18 yrs. She told me that it was horrible what my W had done but my jealousy behavior would certainly drive her away. She also told me how horribly difficult it would be to tell the truth about an A and all the details. She said anyone would lie. I kinda believe that, and it seems to be true reading all the stories here. I remember a time getting caught myself doing something weird at a previous job and lying about when caught at first... Granted, doesn't justify anything, just helps me understand.

 

I think I had every right to expect her to stop classes, like everyone here said (and in every article, book, and even according to our therapist), but I think my mistake was using it as a threat and telling her the deadline. I should have kept that to myself. I did however learn how important her MA is to her =( After grieving a week I decided that my daughter was more important than my paranoia over whether my W was going to restart her A or not. I told her in a counseling session that I would stomach it if she went back to class...she's in a pretty messed up place though and still wants a D. She blames me for everything, which I now understand is pretty typical of a woman in MLC. I know some of you swear up and down that she is just trying to get back into the A or still is...you might as well save your time and shut up...I don't believe this is the case. She's been trying to get him to quit the MA. That's what the texts were about that I saw in the phone bill. She's really quite pissed at the OM.

 

She's now realizing that D won't solve her issues, now that she's considering the possibility of continue classes with the OM there. She has extreme guilt and shame issues. She still has to face OM if she continues. He handles the dojo's finances, he judges events sometimes, she worried about fairness. The OMW still attends events sometimes, where my W will see her. (she still doesn't know about the packet I dropped off into the OMW's hands)

 

So, the current situation is we are sleeping separate, she's on the guest bed. I told her I'm not leaving the masterbedroom since that's *our* room. She can come back whenever she likes. I've never kicked her out of our room when I was angry. She's still intent on D, but has conceded that might change. She's returned to class for the first time in 1 & 1/2 months, supposedly OM wasn't there, I'm guessing this is true. Her lies have been mostly trickle truth, which I'm also learning is common from reading this forum. It's been really clear to me that when the A was discovered, both her and the OM were calling it quits. They weren't head over heals in love, I know this, I've read their private conversations. The danger is with them around each other, without anyone who knows about the A, they could restart in spite of their good intentions atm. That's the thing I worry about, not that they are running to find each others arms waiting.

 

Our lease ends June 30th. At that point we'll either separate, or stay together. My goal is not to have my daughter's parents split. I can temporarily live with my W even if there's no romance anymore... I've worked through all that anger and grief. I'm doing my version of your "180" I guess. I'm detached. I'm not begging, I'm carrying myself with dignity now, and have been. There is realitive peace in the house at this point. We get along fine, just aren't sleeping together. We are taking care of our child, making sure she is happy. I'm praying something works out that will ensure NC w/OM...dunno what that will be. She hasn't texted him in a while...though she did get a POBox that she thinks I don't know about... She had locked off her computer from me, but she had an emergency and had to give me the password, haven't seen anything suspicious there. She's been apartment hunting mostly and dealing with trying to get into her masters program.

 

So yeah, just giving her space, waiting to see what happens. Taking care of my daughter and myself. Putting pride aside, that's not what's most important to me, my daughter is. If my W and I get along, an in house separation is better than splitting the family up.

 

Oh and upcoming craziness is that her parents will be here for a week starting on the 10th. My Mom will show up for part of that time. woot! That's gonna be nuts!

 

 

Now let the insults fly, tell me what a fool and pussy I am! Thank you!

Edited March 9, 2012 by Ninja'sHusband

[2sunny]

I'm glad you're post NH.

 

From what you post - your wife isn't likely to stay with you any longer than she has to ( hence the pobox). But the problem is - she hasn't suffered any harsh and quick consequences!

 

She needs to be kicked out! No money! No credit cards! And she needs to get a job!

 

These will make her head spin! Her school is out! She can't do it NOW... Maybe in a few years- but she ruined that chance when she had her affair. Make her work for money she needs- stop making it so easy for her to continue using you.

 

When she has consequences and realizes how tough life's gonna get - that is when she may show some remorse and gratitude... But you being "understanding and a good listener of her BS" isn't gonna do it.

[Bryanp]

I wish you luck. You sound like you have a handle on things. You sound like a great father.

[turnera]

Sounds like you've reached the level of recognition and knowledge that you need to move forward, no matter what happens. (and I totally get you on the one child thing - there are only 2 kids, in their early 20s, in our families; gonna be a mess).

[Ninja'sHusband]

I'm glad you're post NH.

 

From what you post - your wife isn't likely to stay with you any longer than she has to ( hence the pobox). But the problem is - she hasn't suffered any harsh and quick consequences!

 

She needs to be kicked out! No money! No credit cards! And she needs to get a job!

 

These will make her head spin! Her school is out! She can't do it NOW... Maybe in a few years- but she ruined that chance when she had her affair. Make her work for money she needs- stop making it so easy for her to continue using you.

 

When she has consequences and realizes how tough life's gonna get - that is when she may show some remorse and gratitude... But you being "understanding and a good listener of her BS" isn't gonna do it.

2Sunny, just stop posting. You have no regard for my daughter. I work all day. I want my W to be with her, not some nanny that i can't afford. I love my daughter too much to do something so horrible to her. My W already proved she's willing to walk, wtf is kicking her out gonna to but make things worse?

 

She's had plenty of consequences. I listed many of them in an earlier post, the worst of which was the miscarriage, most horrible thing I've ever seen her go through.

[Owl]

NH...glad to see you posting again. No insults from me...do what you believe is best.

 

My primary recommendation to folks is to pick your goal, and develop a plan to get there. Without clear goals, and without a plan, you get nowhere.

 

You have your goals, and you've found a plan that you believe will get you there.

 

Are they the same goals and plan I'd pick...probably not. But, that doesn't matter.

 

Do what you think you need to do.

 

I do like the idea of maintaining a deadline of June 30...either at that point you're seperated, or reconciling.

 

I understand your wife's focus on MA...I've seen it many times. The difficulty you're going to face is that while she's attending those classes and events...you'll never rebuild trust in her. The rift will continue to widen.

 

Regardless...good luck to you my friend.

[SandieBeach]

Recent thoughts:

Now let the insults fly, tell me what a fool and pussy I am! Thank you!

 

I don't think you are "a fool and pussy" at all. I think you have never been in denial (based on your posts), otherwise you would have stopped posting here. Sometimes people's comments are really harsh, and I think that's because they are responding to you based on their own emotions about the affair. It's hard to separate what we are going through when we give advice and comment on others' problems.

 

In my opinion, if you had acted out of hurt or anger, and kicked her out so that you can feel better short term, you would always look back wondering if you made the right decision. Of course, I am not suggesting that you (or anyone) stays with the cheating spouse for a long time when everything indicates that no true reconciliation can happen. Sometimes things are very clear from the beginning, and the decision to leave is easy to make. BUT you need to be ready to make any major step, and you will make it when you are ready. That way, you will know that you did everything to try and save your relationship, and it will be much easier for you to move on.

[2sunny]

2Sunny, just stop posting. You have no regard for my daughter. I work all day. I want my W to be with her, not some nanny that i can't afford. I love my daughter too much to do something so horrible to her. My W already proved she's willing to walk, wtf is kicking her out gonna to but make things worse?

 

She's had plenty of consequences. I listed many of them in an earlier post, the worst of which was the miscarriage, most horrible thing I've ever seen her go through.

 

I do have regard for all children. It's your W that isn't regarding her daughter... Since SHE is the one who cheated. Was she thinking of how this would affect her daughter when she has been cheating? Nope

 

Is she thinking of her now? Who knows - from what you type - it looks like she's thinking of herself mainly - and how she can continue being a cake eater.

 

Don't blame me for pointing out ways to knock her off that fence she's sitting on.

 

You not having a firm boundary for her and the M isn't going to help you... It just buys her time to devise her exit plan.

[soserious1]

2Sunny, just stop posting. You have no regard for my daughter. I work all day. I want my W to be with her, not some nanny that i can't afford. I love my daughter too much to do something so horrible to her. My W already proved she's willing to walk, wtf is kicking her out gonna to but make things worse?

 

She's had plenty of consequences. I listed many of them in an earlier post, the worst of which was the miscarriage, most horrible thing I've ever seen her go through.

 

I'm wasn't trying to upset you nor did I call you names with my earlier post.

 

Let me remind you of one thing though.. if your wife is truly not sincere & remorseful for her conduct, chances are good you will end up paying her hefty alimony & child support & that will be MUCH more expensive than hiring a babysitter. Oh and the court won't care if you can "afford it" or not, they'll seize everything you own, take any professional licenses you might hold & ultimately jail you if you fail to cough up the $.

[2sunny]

NH - before you stated clearly that you were divorcing.

 

Now you type as if you still hope to get back together and it appears that you are willing to do anything to stay with her - including disregarding your own feelings. This isn't a healthy boundary for you.

 

You can correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

It appears you may be in denial about what's really happening. Denial doesn't help you... It helps her.

[Ninja'sHusband]

NH...glad to see you posting again. No insults from me...do what you believe is best.

 

My primary recommendation to folks is to pick your goal, and develop a plan to get there. Without clear goals, and without a plan, you get nowhere.

 

You have your goals, and you've found a plan that you believe will get you there.

 

Are they the same goals and plan I'd pick...probably not. But, that doesn't matter.

 

Do what you think you need to do.

 

I do like the idea of maintaining a deadline of June 30...either at that point you're seperated, or reconciling.

 

I understand your wife's focus on MA...I've seen it many times. The difficulty you're going to face is that while she's attending those classes and events...you'll never rebuild trust in her. The rift will continue to widen.

 

Regardless...good luck to you my friend.

 

Yeah the NC thing is still an open issue and I'm not happy with it. I just can't force her to do anything. I need to let her figure out things for herself. Now she's having to think about NC for other reasons than just me demanding it. I have some hope that things will work out, I think me forcing it my way is just killing us though. The OMW has the info, thanks to you guys. My W is under pressure from her parents, that much is clear to me now. My W actually doesn't want to be around the OM or be judged by him. It's up to her to figure this out, I can't do it for her. I'm just going to put on my patient face and hope for the best (while working on my half of the relationship)

 

 

2Sunny I think this addresses your last post as well. I agree that it's unhealthy and that we can never fully heal without NC. Steve Harley would agree with that as well. He said I couldn't begin to address the issues that led to the A without first having my wound healed.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Ninja'sHusband