Boundary setting question

[turnera]

the message I got from books' date=' counseling, and experience was that I can't force her to do anything. She has to fix this; the actions taken have to be her initiative. [/quote']You're misunderstanding. Of course you can't force her to do anything. But if YOU were willing to live by your morals and LEAVE her if she won't do what you need to heal, then she would have the choice to do it, or lose you.

 

That's called a boundary. "If you do X, then I will do Y." It doesn't tell THEM what to do, it informs them what YOU will do if they do what you don't like.

[2sunny]

I do hope things work out for you and the M, I really do.

 

 

More than that - I hope your W becomes willing to change.

 

I wish you the best.

[Ninja'sHusband]

You both will be harming your daughter if there is no efforts being made in the marriage to save it and make it better.

 

You really think neither of us has made any effort to save the M?

[Ninja'sHusband]

You're misunderstanding. Of course you can't force her to do anything. But if YOU were willing to live by your morals and LEAVE her if she won't do what you need to heal, then she would have the choice to do it, or lose you.

 

That's called a boundary. "If you do X, then I will do Y." It doesn't tell THEM what to do, it informs them what YOU will do if they do what you don't like.

 

Bottomline: I'm not separating and hurting my daughter while we are still a functioning Mom and Dad, which we are.

 

I already tried the ultimatum boundary thing, no I didn't follow through. I decided my daughter was more important. This is just a broken record syndrome.

 

LS: She's had no consequences!

NH: She had a miscarriage, missed lots of classes, wanted to commit suicide, been stalked and made to feel like a criminal, on and on...there's posts more info earlier in the thread.

 

We are healing now, and you guys want me to regress things all of a sudden by starting the war back up? No thank you....I'm willing to try this solution that I think may actually work long term.

[2sunny]

Bottomline: I'm not separating and hurting my daughter while we are still a functioning Mom and Dad, which we are.

 

I already tried the ultimatum boundary thing, no I didn't follow through. I decided my daughter was more important. This is just a broken record syndrome.

 

LS: She's had no consequences!

NH: She had a miscarriage, missed lots of classes, wanted to commit suicide, been stalked and made to feel like a criminal, on and on...there's posts more info earlier in the thread.

 

We are healing now, and you guys want me to regress things all of a sudden by starting the war back up? No thank you....I'm willing to try this solution that I think may actually work long term.

 

Good for you! Seriously - I do hope this plan works for you. I do hope your wife changes enough to consider YOUR feelings as much as you consider her feelings.

 

I do hope some healthy balance is restored to your marriage.

[Owl]

Bottomline: I'm not separating and hurting my daughter while we are still a functioning Mom and Dad, which we are.

 

I already tried the ultimatum boundary thing, no I didn't follow through. I decided my daughter was more important. This is just a broken record syndrome.

 

LS: She's had no consequences!

NH: She had a miscarriage, missed lots of classes, wanted to commit suicide, been stalked and made to feel like a criminal, on and on...there's posts more info earlier in the thread.

 

We are healing now, and you guys want me to regress things all of a sudden by starting the war back up? No thank you....I'm willing to try this solution that I think may actually work long term.

 

NH...realize that I've got no vested interest in your life. Just posting as someone who's gone through is own reconciliation with a wife who had an EA with someone.

 

Are you convinced that she's learned enough, changed enough, and now cares enough to avoid getting into another affair (or resuming this one) in the near to far future? Is she being honest enough with you now to let you rebuild your trust in her?

 

If so...charlie mike. If not...then realize that's the concern that others have voiced as well, and you might wanna re-consider your battle plan.

 

Really hoping that everything works out the best possible way for you.

[Ninja'sHusband]

NH...realize that I've got no vested interest in your life. Just posting as someone who's gone through is own reconciliation with a wife who had an EA with someone.

 

Are you convinced that she's learned enough, changed enough, and now cares enough to avoid getting into another affair (or resuming this one) in the near to far future? Is she being honest enough with you now to let you rebuild your trust in her?

 

If so...charlie mike. If not...then realize that's the concern that others have voiced as well, and you might wanna re-consider your battle plan.

 

Really hoping that everything works out the best possible way for you.

 

 

Honestly no, but she's moving in the right direction again. She has started being a lot more honest and forthcoming, but yeah it hasn't been very long. We've got a long road to go down yet. 6/24 months done out of the average R time right?

 

I'm still hearing people say I should have D'ed. Yeah I bluffed, though unintentionally. Oh well. If I had D'ed, I'd be D'ed...and that's not where I want to be. Sure it would've taught my W that I meant business..but wtf, I would have put my daughter through hell...spent how much money I don't have, etc, etc. It just doesn't work for me when you get down to it.

 

I do worry about her future boundaries with other guys...she's about to start a masters program (just got accepted to a school today!)...but yeah I can only guard so much and try to make our M as solid as it can be.

 

Anyway, sorry it pains you to see a BS try to R in the face of a WW who is going nuts and acing selfish. Things are getting better though, hopefully that trend continues. We've made a lot of progress in the last few weeks...it only validates what I'm doing is right.

[2sunny]

Honestly no, but she's moving in the right direction again. She has started being a lot more honest and forthcoming, but yeah it hasn't been very long. We've got a long road to go down yet. 6/24 months done out of the average R time right?

 

I'm still hearing people say I should have D'ed. Yeah I bluffed, though unintentionally. Oh well. If I had D'ed, I'd be D'ed...and that's not where I want to be. Sure it would've taught my W that I meant business..but wtf, I would have put my daughter through hell...spent how much money I don't have, etc, etc. It just doesn't work for me when you get down to it.

 

I do worry about her future boundaries with other guys...she's about to start a masters program (just got accepted to a school today!)...but yeah I can only guard so much and try to make our M as solid as it can be.

 

Anyway, sorry it pains you to see a BS try to R in the face of a WW who is going nuts and acing selfish. Things are getting better though, hopefully that trend continues. We've made a lot of progress in the last few weeks...it only validates what I'm doing is right.

 

I don't see where people tell you to get divorced. But you keep reading it that way.

 

That poster said say what you mean and DO what you say. He/she also said that your wife hasn't had consequences. Yet you interpret that as "you say just divorce".

 

Set a boundary. Stick to it.

 

Hopefully a healthy one that doesn't allow her to keep walking all over you and calling the shots.

 

She's been getting her way all along... Time for you to start making demands and see if SHE lives up to what YOU EXPECT.

 

Time to bump her out of her self entitled and spoiled mode. Time she start getting busy showing YOU EVIDENCE THAT SHE WANTS TO DO ANYTHING NECESSARY TO AMKE THE MARRIAGE HAPPY AGAIN. If she's not - then the M isn't her priority - and there's not much to work with there.

 

She should be giving you PROOF of anything and everything you may want or need. She should be kissing your a$$! If she's not - she's probably still cheating.

[Owl]

Honestly no, but she's moving in the right direction again. She has started being a lot more honest and forthcoming, but yeah it hasn't been very long. We've got a long road to go down yet. 6/24 months done out of the average R time right?

 

They say it typically takes 2-5 years to recover a marriage from infidelity, and that's if everyone does everything right.

 

It took my marriage 2 years to reach a point that I considered us "recovered", and we had a wonderful foundation to rebuild from, and a very short term affair that she needed to "get over". Given what you've described, I don't know how I'd judge the 'recovery' efforts made so far, so in truth I'd suspect it's going to take LONGER to recover, given the lack of effort on her part.

 

I'm still hearing people say I should have D'ed. Yeah I bluffed, though unintentionally. Oh well. If I had D'ed, I'd be D'ed...and that's not where I want to be. Sure it would've taught my W that I meant business..but wtf, I would have put my daughter through hell...spent how much money I don't have, etc, etc. It just doesn't work for me when you get down to it.

 

I'm not saying that you should have D'ed. But giving an ultimatum without being willing to back it up does make you look weak. Looking weak loses respect, and as I've mentioned before...if your wife can't respect you, she certainly won't fall back in love with you.

 

You need to be willing to set boundaries still. And ensure that you're willing to enforce them to the fullest extent when they're violated...or you'll remain looking weak in her eyes.

 

I do worry about her future boundaries with other guys...she's about to start a masters program (just got accepted to a school today!)...but yeah I can only guard so much and try to make our M as solid as it can be.

 

There's no way your marriage will ever be "solid as it can be" if this situation isn't directly addressed and resolved. Avoiding forcing this to resolution is just going to give her license and reason to do it again.

 

But...it's possible that you're the exception, and this will all work out for the best. If you like those odds...go for it.

 

Anyway, sorry it pains you to see a BS try to R in the face of a WW who is going nuts and acing selfish. Things are getting better though, hopefully that trend continues. We've made a lot of progress in the last few weeks...it only validates what I'm doing is right.

 

I'm not convinced what you've posted is 'progress'...but I'm also not the guy living in your situation either. If you're happy with it...that's all that matters at the end of the day.

 

As I've said before...I wish you the best of luck.

[Ninja'sHusband]

From several weeks ago where she was in the guest room, had her rings off, locked her computer, cell phone, would hardly even walk next to me, freak out if I asked her anything about OM, etc...it light years of progress. Even from before we "decided to D" its better because now she's accepting that I go to class with her. Before she was denying that. One step at a time.

[2sunny]

Your expectations will set the tempo. Since you expect so little from her - it's easy to see why you seem happy about these little changes.

 

Unfortunately for you - it's not nearly as much as she COULD/SHOULD be expected to do.

 

Has SHE started counseling to find out why she cheated? To also find out HOW she can never ever consider cheating again? To work on her ego and sense of entitlement? To grow as a woman that considers how her actions and words profoundly affect her husband? If not, then she will more likely just lay low and cheat again when you're distracted again...too busy to monitor her like a parent.

 

That's no way for you to live - and no way to gain and build trust in the M.

[turnera]

I do see progress. But I also see a WW who is manipulating you, because she knows you won't leave.

 

That's where the boundaries come in, NH. If you won't divorce, that's fine. But find other consequences. Decide on consequences and inform her of them ahead of time.

 

She NEEDS to see you standing up taller and stronger. She 'lets' you go to MA with her?

 

You're supposed to be in charge here, NH. SHE cheated, not you. YOU are the one who has the ability to pull the plug on the marriage and whatever she wants out of it. But if you continue to approach this as increments of her LETTING you into her life, she will lose what little respect she has left for you.

 

And women HAVE to respect their men. Goes back to caveman days. Women cheat on doormats. They just do. And they blame the husband - if he would have just acted like a man, I wouldn't have fallen for another man; a man who TAKES what he wants. Not THAT is worth admiring.

 

What are you doing to improve your 'admiration' status with her, by manning up? Have you read No More Mr Nice Guy yet? Good place to start.

[Ninja'sHusband]

First self help book I read was "Love Must Be Tough" by Dobson. I'm well aware of the "respect" idea. She's had gobs of consequences...not a free ride at all. I did bluff on D...I waffle back and for on whether I did the right thing with the threat or not. I think I needed to know that she would take it that far....but it did a lot of damage. Maybe it needed to be done =\ I don't know...yeah it ended in being a false threat...but it sure hurt both of us really bad. I remember one night we both just sat there silently crying on the "Luv Sack" while our daughter watched TV. The pain was unbelievable as we both contemplated D.

 

I dunno, I hear you guy's points about respect, I understand it. I just don't think more war would be good right now. We've already peered over the edge...it was horrible for both of us.

[whichwayisup]

Don't you think everybody in that class, let alone the dojo, figures 'something' happened? Seeing as how close those two were, talking, laughing and hanging out then all of a sudden it all stops. No looks, no talking, no smiling, no joking around and on opposite sides of the room - That change is SO obvious that others will notice and question it. I'm sure if you told the dojo about their affair (something you should talk about with the OM's wife too, when you do finally get to talk to her) he wouldn't be shocked or surprised. True sensei's (sensai?) are totally in tune with feelings and energy of every single person in their group. So chances are, the man knows already..

 

Can I ask what you think of my reply? Do you think others know about their affair?

 

You both will be harming your daughter if there is no efforts being made in the marriage to save it and make it better.

Your wife IS harming her daughter by being selfish and still putting herself and her needs above you both. FAMILY COMES FIRST and until your wife truly suffers some major consquences, things aren't going to change that much. I do hope she is in NC mode and there isn't a secret phone you don't know about it..

 

Bottomline is, if the xOM continues to show up, your wife has to quit. She can't be selfish and put her needs first. In time she can find another group to join.

 

I'm reposting this because you took one line out of two well thought replies and focussed on something that I think you took out of context. Please let me explain because I don't want you think what I think you thought about the harming your daughter in this situation.. What I meant by that is, if she sees you two fighting, distant, not really talking and detached, it will affect her on some level. The energy in your house, stress etc, will be felt by her. This is why I said it's important for BOTH you and your wife to work together, not your wife still gets to do what she wants and you have to put up with her choices. I'm sorry but it.will.not.kill.her. if she has to quit this group and join a new one. It's the least she can do..Why? To PUT YOUR MIND at ease. An olive branch to prove and to show you she is putting your feelings first and staying away from where she KNOWS OM will be. Many spouses ask their spouse to transfer or quit a job when there's a work place affair.

 

You going to her class to make sure OM isn't anywhere near her can only last so long..

 

You obviously don't trust her yet and shouldn't. Just because she's suffered a miscarriage and awful as that is, doesn't mean she's suffered in the sense of not letting it happen again in future. Yes, she needs to learn boundries. Not have "men" friends that you don't know. ANY new man she meets and who will be a friend of hers, should meet you and be in BOTH of your lives, not just hers. She can focus on connecting with women and building friendshps with them. Not guys.

[Spark1111]

First self help book I read was "Love Must Be Tough" by Dobson. I'm well aware of the "respect" idea. She's had gobs of consequences...not a free ride at all. I did bluff on D...I waffle back and for on whether I did the right thing with the threat or not. I think I needed to know that she would take it that far....but it did a lot of damage. Maybe it needed to be done =\ I don't know...yeah it ended in being a false threat...but it sure hurt both of us really bad. I remember one night we both just sat there silently crying on the "Luv Sack" while our daughter watched TV. The pain was unbelievable as we both contemplated D.

 

I dunno, I hear you guy's points about respect, I understand it. I just don't think more war would be good right now. We've already peered over the edge...it was horrible for both of us.

 

NH, this is wonderful news!

 

You both want the marriage. This is great and you should be happy; for both you and your daughter.

 

But you have a small window of opportunity here, so use it to the best advantage of your family and marriage!

 

Unless you both attend IC and MC, this window will close quickly. Don't you want to forge a future together that you can trust?

 

Of course you do.

 

You need an honest, transparent, NC with OM, I want to be with you and only you spouse. Anything less will torture you for the duration of your relationship. And that WILL effect your child.

 

State unequivacably what you want and expect it. Set these healthy boundaries! You will feel stronger, and as importantly, respected. That is a plus for you, your spouse and your child.

 

Your wife needs IC to discover her weaknesses, where they originated, and her "WHY" of her affair.

 

Only then will she and you feel confident that proper steps can be taken to ensure this will NEVER happen again.

 

The two of you must learn how to communicate your needs to each other in a kind and compassionate manner and meet them.

 

This IS the only way to forge a stronger bond, an affair-proof one, for the future.

 

LS is filled with quickly forgiven affairs swept under the rug, that went on to more, and more, and more affairs......nightmare!

 

Please listen to those who successfully overcame infidelity to have a happy, secure relationship and the steps taken to achieve it.

 

We are all trying to save you future pain.

[2sunny]

Man I always love how WWIU can bring it!

 

Yay for a voice of sound reasoning.

 

I'm interested to see his response.

 

Also - I hardly thunk your daughter seeing you both sitting and crying is helping her. She more likely wonders what the heck is going on that they won't tell me. Kids feel energy. And she can feel what's happening around her - that's for certain.

Edited April 5, 2012 by 2sunny

[Ninja'sHusband]

Spark, we've been to tons of MC and IC for over the last 5 months. Well, actually my W stopped going for about a month..except when my daughter was concerned. She's recently agreed to start up again at her mother's request. I had called them after she started thinking about suicide and the incidents where she pulled out the knife and sword. It's been nice having the in-laws in the know. Even my daughter has been to counseling once. She checked out as happy and unaffected so far.

[2sunny]

Spark' date=' we've been to tons of MC and IC for over the last 5 months. Well, actually my W stopped going for about a month..except when my daughter was concerned. She's recently agreed to start up again at her mother's request. I had called them after she started thinking about suicide and the incidents where she pulled out the knife and sword. It's been nice having the in-laws in the know. Even my daughter has been to counseling once. She checked out as happy and unaffected so far.[/quote']

 

So she goes under the request of her parents but not because you requested it?

 

I don't get your wife. Or maybe I do - she isn't trying to take you or your feelings or suggestions into account. Certainly she isn't giving how you feel any validation. That is definitely something that needs to be addressed at MC = her NOT validating your feelings. You being accepting of her not validating you and your input and feelings - that's just completely disrespecting you as a person - and she's your wife!

 

 

If she's staying with you to please her parents - that is concerning.

 

You need evidence that SHE wants to BE IN this 100% because she wants to give it her all and make this work. Anything less isn't going to give you positive results.

 

Ask her - is she all in? Is she all in because SHE wants this to work or because she wants to please her parents?

 

This IS critical info that you need to know, first and foremost!

 

And if she's all in - SHE needs to start acting like shell do anything and everything to EARN YOUR TRUST BACK! if she's not earning back trust - she's not yet doing what's necessary to move in the right direction to heal the harm she caused.

Edited April 5, 2012 by 2sunny

[Ninja'sHusband]

 

You need an honest, transparent, NC with OM, I want to be with you and only you spouse. Anything less will torture you for the duration of your relationship. And that WILL effect your child.

 

State unequivacably what you want and expect it. Set these healthy boundaries! You will feel stronger, and as importantly, respected. That is a plus for you, your spouse and your child.

 

I've definitely done this. She's finally gotten it that she can't talk with him in any way shape or form....it's been a rough battle.

 

 

Your wife needs IC to discover her weaknesses, where they originated, and her "WHY" of her affair.

 

Only then will she and you feel confident that proper steps can be taken to ensure this will NEVER happen again.

 

We beat this one to death...so much that she went from "There's something wrong with me, nothing to do with you" to "It's everything over the last 7 years!!!" We've talked about sooo many things in the M it's mind boggling. I learned a lot of stuff I never knew she was upset about before. In the end though, I think the A was about her MLC. Some stuff she finally opened up to me about made it clear. The other stuff we had talked about was just what would have prevented the A, even by her own words..."If we had had a strong marriage, then I would have never had the A"...ok, but what actually caused it!? I think it was selfesteem, conflict avoidance, and her MLC.

 

 

The two of you must learn how to communicate your needs to each other in a kind and compassionate manner and meet them.

 

This IS the only way to forge a stronger bond, an affair-proof one, for the future.

YES! His Needs Her Needs, Hold Me Tight, and Love Busters were awesome books for this. I wasn't real impressed with out therapist though =\ "Hold Me Tight" probably was the most beneficial book on how to communicate. His Needs Her Needs taught more of what to communicate.

 

LS is filled with quickly forgiven affairs swept under the rug, that went on to more, and more, and more affairs......nightmare!

 

Please listen to those who successfully overcame infidelity to have a happy, secure relationship and the steps taken to achieve it.

 

We are all trying to save you future pain.

Yeah this scares me too. We've been having more boundary conversations...we have some serious disagreements about what is appropriate. it didn't help when we had one of these conversations on the phone with her parents...and they started backing her. But then one of them said, "But we're not in your situation" Yeessssss....exactly....we simply can't continue with the boundaries we had before. Look where it got us! Sooo this is a big struggle. I'm joining her MA partially to bond with her, partially to make sure these boundaries are kept together. In "Surviving and Affair" Harley talks about a W who started going with her H on his truck routes, just to prevent As...she ended up loving it. He recommends that recreational activities are done as a couple..I've tried to get her to go to fencing, start new as a family...but no =( So I'm starting this other MA. If OM shows up, there's gonna be turbulence. She might see that this is probably not gonna work. I think we have to go through the options unfortunately. She's too much in her MLC and dreams of being an international champion to stop right now. Selfish? Yes. I'd rather go to a class that is gonna be a hell for me at first than break up my daughter's parents. That's the bottom line. Now if she meets some dude during her masters program....ugh...yeah there's that. At least I'm trying, I can't be afraid of everything. OM isn't at the university.

[2sunny]

And in earning your trust back - does she still have a PObox? Passwords still on her computer, phone? Have you installed a key logger and tracked her phone without telling her?

 

You may need to go further to be sure she's completely capable of transparency. She shouldn't have ANY problem with you checking anything! Complete transparency is required - and she isn't allowed to get mad! She lost that right when she broke your trust.

 

You should be able to ask her for anything and she should be happy to provide any evidence that she's innocent- any innocent person does this... When there's nothing to hide - people hide NOTHING.

 

It shows too, how willing she really is to go to any length to restore YOUR peace of mind- that's part of making up for what she stole from you.

Edited April 5, 2012 by 2sunny

[2sunny]

Would you consider moving NH? What would she say if you did consider moving?

 

You could start classes together in a group with a fresh start.

 

Have you contact the OMs wife yet?

[Spark1111]

Spark' date=' we've been to tons of MC and IC for over the last 5 months. Well, actually my W stopped going for about a month..except when my daughter was concerned. She's recently agreed to start up again at her mother's request. I had called them after she started thinking about suicide and the incidents where she pulled out the knife and sword. It's been nice having the in-laws in the know. Even my daughter has been to counseling once. She checked out as happy and unaffected so far.[/quote']

 

This is not unusual for WS.....to become suicidal and quit IC. They resist digging too deep and have developed a lifetime coping mechanism of blaming others for their unhappiness.

 

Its a form of denial, it's easy, and it absovles them of looking at the deeper issues that are affecting them.

 

If she is willing to return, that is a good thing.

 

If you are willing to accompany her on her recreational activity and support her goals, that's great!

 

See if she is willing to join you on a recreational activity. It could be walking around the block holding hands, but something!

 

Keep talking, talking, talking.....and spending time together. Lots of time. Have fun together.

 

And keep your talks compassionate, but clear and if need be, firm.

[2sunny]

FYI - you have one the your best resources here - whichwayisup - has helped so many over the years.

 

Yet you aren't using your resources by utilizing their help they offer.

 

You may want to answer her questions/concerns. You may want to consider following her suggestions...

 

You'd pay 200.00 an hour to get her kind of help she offers here for free. But if you don't respond to what she asks you - she will quickly go to someone else who wants her help.

[2sunny]

You really think neither of us has made any effort to save the M?

 

I think her post was pointing out how little effort your wife is making in comparison to your effort.

 

I could be wrong - but that was my take from her post.

 

Bottomline: I'm not separating and hurting my daughter while we are still a functioning Mom and Dad, which we are.

 

I already tried the ultimatum boundary thing, no I didn't follow through. I decided my daughter was more important. This is just a broken record syndrome.

 

LS: She's had no consequences!

NH: She had a miscarriage, missed lots of classes, wanted to commit suicide, been stalked and made to feel like a criminal, on and on...there's posts more info earlier in the thread.

 

We are healing now, and you guys want me to regress things all of a sudden by starting the war back up? No thank you....I'm willing to try this solution that I think may actually work long term.

 

You can still function as Mom and Dad when your not together or even married. I'm proof of that with my exH.

 

And those consequences you state she's had. She had a miscarriage yes. But we can't change that now. And feeling sorry for her allows her to use this consequence to her advantage to gain pity (pity isn't a positive emotion). She was stalked because she cheated and lied. A consequence of her dishonesty. A criminal? Yes, she broke up the trust and stole your peace of mind - the worst thing you can do to someone you claim to love.

 

And SHE did IT ALL TO HERSELF! So stop defending her bad behavior!!! She deserves every consequence coming to her- she tried ruining your family and is mad YOU noticed! And she wants to pick and choose what she's gonna change... Ummmm, NO!

 

Get mad!!!! She DESERVES MAD!!! I don't mean violent - but I do think mad is totally appropriate for what SHE HAS DONE TO YOU AND YOUR CHILD!

 

Yet you seem to defend her! My god - there's no chance of this going well if you keep allowing her to abuse you.you keep asking for more.

 

Change the things you can! Set a firm healthy boundary - set the bar HIGH! IF she doesn't go along with ALL your requests - she still intends to cheat- if she's not already.

 

You gotta look to find out - but you haven't even called the wife or looked for info by key logger or tracking her phone- she probably has a new phone! And have you used a VAC? You can DO things- yet you won't.

 

Eyes closed - I see nothing. That denial only works for a short time.

Edited April 5, 2012 by 2sunny

[Ninja'sHusband]

This is not unusual for WS.....to become suicidal and quit IC. They resist digging too deep and have developed a lifetime coping mechanism of blaming others for their unhappiness.

 

Its a form of denial, it's easy, and it absovles them of looking at the deeper issues that are affecting them.

 

If she is willing to return, that is a good thing.

 

If you are willing to accompany her on her recreational activity and support her goals, that's great!

 

See if she is willing to join you on a recreational activity. It could be walking around the block holding hands, but something!

 

Keep talking, talking, talking.....and spending time together. Lots of time. Have fun together.

 

And keep your talks compassionate, but clear and if need be, firm.

Thx Sparks Yeah when I took back the ultimatum she started going through her insane guilt\shame trips. I think it made the D her fault again. She couldn't blame it on my trying to control her again. She started having to face seeing OMM again at the dojo, possibly seeing OMW. Being judged by OM at contests, etc. The day I read her that letter, telling her to go back to her MA, she went from being generally happy...to angry and depressed. Funny how that works.

 

Just now, I was in bed...asked her if I could schedule a counseling session for us. She goes on about school schedule, blah blah blah. She still is giving me big blank nothings after I say "I love you" on parting... She has sex with me though...I wanna ask her about that. Just felt a surge of anger and had to leave the bedroom. So here I am at the computer...talking to anonymous women lol ^^

 

I guess she plans on going to IC, she has stated she's gonna start with that and work her way back to MC. I dunno when she goes to IC though...often she doesn't tell me if she makes an appointment. I found out later by accident or something. Bah, I'm tracking her email religiously now-a-days, I'd know right away if she scheduled. She hasn't.

 

It does piss me off that she still puts no effort into anything...it's up to me to suck it up and forgive the A, fix the M. She gets all offended because of my threat to end her MA and stops loving me. Here I am the one who was betrayed... What total BS. She's so afraid I'm going to be physically abusive...and it her who has hit me. I mentioned on the phone with her Dad that I couldn't remember the last time she said she loved me. he said, "Yeah that would be kinda hard". HAH! yeah it would be kinda hard FOR ME, been betrayed, slapped, yelled at, etc, etc.

 

She's called herself a whore a lot... I haven't, ever. But this feels whorish. She doesn't love me? But she'll screw me while I pay for her school? I know she was sexually starved after that 6 weeks of self inflicted no affection. Maybe I should cut her off again, tell her I can't do it anymore if she still doesn't love me. Just feels wrong. I thought maybe once we reunited physically the rest would be there as well... Guess not. Or maybe that's an act of war that will just distance us more. It's so hard to tell when to use "tough love" or not. I vacillate too much. I hate martial limbo. It was actually easier when she was determined to D, I had a straight script to play.

 

Speaking of counseling...I didn't go this week. Probably should setup a session =\

 

Ok, feels a little better. Needed to vent. Thanks for your wisdom Sparks.